Socialism

[tre14]

Originally posted by Starsky
Socialism has had plenty of opportunities already, and Utopian Socialism has as well, it doesn't work. All that it usually succeeds in doing is driving productivity to the ground, and resulting in bigger so called "class-divisions" then within Capitalism.

Anyways, for all the socialists..why dont you guys go start your own self-sufficient communes and not try to bother others with implementing it as universal policy. There you can criticize people for achievement and success on a much smaller level. Its kind if interesting that most communes fail when you have 20 people, let alone 200 million.

The Soviet Union is still suffering from the catastrophic effects of socialism 13 years after "perestroika". I think Socialism should be renamed "Massive inevitable collapseism"

Very good. Like that article I posted "g.jpg" it these people were concerned about humanity then would be supporting capitalism, not statism.

[CerealKiller]

Originally posted by Stri8tions
How about this Porky, jay81, Cereal...

Im sitting on 30k in debt right now...Im in a financially worst situation then probably all of you...Now, with your thought process I probably deserve financial help from you guys...Why waste your money on movie tickets and protein powder when you can help a starving person like myself...In a more socialist state you would be forced to give me your extra money, why not do it out of goodwill..

I invite all of you to actually participate in your own reasonings...Whats the use of discussing your thoughts when you dont actually follow threw with your beliefs??? I invite you guys to prove your rightousness(sp?) and follow threw in your political comitment...

Please send me your next paycheck, its for the better for you to sacrifice for the better of the whole...
PM for my PO BOX address...

LOL I'll gladly send you one dollar to help. Now you just need to find 29,999 other people to do the same.

[Stri8tions]

But everyone wants a free ride from there big brother-the Government...

...Its just not fair that Im 32, dont have any real work experience because I cant hold a job longer then 1 year, Work at Mc'D's and am addicted to various drugs...The is the worlds fault, and I demand the working middle class to pay for my autracities(sp?)...

You know what is even more sad??? I have a friend that is a manager at Circle K and makes 35k a year salary...Mother ****ing Circle K...The truth of the matter is-if you dont have any real work exp. at the age of 30, you are a complete waste of human flesh...A person can work at ****ing 7/11 for 5-7 years and make 25k+...The people that are still making minimal wage (or near) at that age are worthless imo...There are reasons people cant hold jobs for longer then a year, or have no work exp. at the age of 30...
I will never feel pity to these people because they put themselves in that position...

EDIT: just another one of my many little rants...

*My girlfriends little sister makes 14.50$/hr at ****ing SAFEWAY after 3yrs of working there...NO EXCUSES FOR THESE PARASITES!

[jay81]

Originally posted by CerealKiller
LOL I'll gladly send you one dollar to help. Now you just need to find 29,999 other people to do the same.

LOL good one

[jay81]

Originally posted by Stri8tions
But everyone wants a free ride from there big brother-the Government...

...Its just not fair that Im 32, dont have any real work experience because I cant hold a job longer then 1 year, Work at Mc'D's and am addicted to various drugs...The is the worlds fault, and I demand the working middle class to pay for my autracities(sp?)...

You know what is even more sad??? I have a friend that is a manager at Circle K and makes 35k a year salary...Mother ****ing Circle K...The truth of the matter is-if you dont have any real work exp. at the age of 30, you are a complete waste of human flesh...A person can work at ****ing 7/11 for 5-7 years and make 25k+...The people that are still making minimal wage (or near) at that age are worthless imo...There are reasons people cant hold jobs for longer then a year, or have no work exp. at the age of 30...
I will never feel pity to these people because they put themselves in that position...

EDIT: just another one of my many little rants...

*My girlfriends little sister makes 14.50$/hr at ****ing SAFEWAY after 3yrs of working there...NO EXCUSES FOR THESE PARASITES!

Some of you guys are overly self-centred like the Iron Lord pointed out earlier.

Why the anger and hate?

If you worried about your own lives and were secure and comfortable you wouldn't be so concerned and preoccupied with the '' parasites ''.

Marginalizing these people financially isn't going to take the problem away, on the contrary it will only worsen it through mass starvation, disease, crime and no doubt an inevitable uprising against the system and government in place.

I'd like to think people are more advanced than to cut off another's lifeline and cast them away to perish all because they didn't meet your social and economic expected standards.

[CerealKiller]

Originally posted by tre14
Ok, here's the thing. I am absolutely against what CerealKiller says. If you're not working out of choice then you don't deserve anything but what nature gives you. However, if someone is hard working but for whatever reason can't make much money and has an accident, I don't think his economic standing should prevent him from getting adequate healthcare. But I am also not a fan of Big Government. More government means more controls, more taxes, more wasted money, less freedom, on and on. So primarily I think people should rely on charity to solve temporary problems and get the idea that gov't is the be all, end all out of their minds. Gov't is not a parent. You don't go crying to them everytime something goes wrong. So, I would be in favor of minimal gov't aid in healthcare and in unemployment insurance, although I think both can be planned for privately.

All in all, the gov't is not the answer to every little inconvience we have. It is not a parent. Take responsibility and only use gov't funds when it is the only possible solution.

We've debated this before and I contend with a little ingenuity we could reach common ground.

You say the unfortunate should rely on charity to solve temporary problems but you fail to realize all problems aren't temporary. There is nothing temporary about being blind or having MS. Should we leave these less fortunate for the buzzards ? They need long term support.

I'm opposed to big government as well, almost everything the government gets involved with goes to hell in a handbasket.
Perhaps if they weren't taking 40% of our money we could privatize healthcare and return it to affordability for everyone. The same thing could be said for education. Then maybe we wouldn't have to go crying to them everytime something goes wrong.

What you fail to consider compromising on are limits on how much an individual can earn. Why should a CEO capitalize on running a company into the ground and pocketing 40 million dollars in a corporate buyout, while his poor decision making skills puts thousands in the unemployment line ?

I don't know if you're familiar with the Ben and Jerrys story when they ran the company they set a rule to the effect where the highest paid employee could only make 7 times more than the lowest paid employee. What this did was allow everyone to enjoy in the success of the company,not just a few greedy at the top.

If there is a minimum wage perhaps there should be a maximum wage. Hard workers would still be rewarded for their efforts but not to the degree they are now, and certainly not at the expense of someone else. Just some things to consider.

[tre14]

Originally posted by CerealKiller
We've debated this before and I contend with a little ingenuity we could reach common ground.

You say the unfortunate should rely on charity to solve temporary problems but you fail to realize all problems aren't temporary. There is nothing temporary about being blind or having MS. Should we leave these less fortunate for the buzzards ? They need long term support.

I'm opposed to big government as well, almost everything the government gets involved with goes to hell in a handbasket.
Perhaps if they weren't taking 40% of our money we could privatize healthcare and return it to affordability for everyone. The same thing could be said for education. Then maybe we wouldn't have to go crying to them everytime something goes wrong.

What you fail to consider compromising on are limits on how much an individual can earn. Why should a CEO capitalize on running a company into the ground and pocketing 40 million dollars in a corporate buyout, while his poor decision making skills puts thousands in the unemployment line ?

I don't know if you're familiar with the Ben and Jerrys story when they ran the company they set a rule to the effect where the highest paid employee could only make 7 times more than the lowest paid employee. What this did was allow everyone to enjoy in the success of the company,not just a few greedy at the top.

If there is a minimum wage perhaps there should be a maximum wage. Hard workers would still be rewarded for their efforts but not to the degree they are now, and certainly not at the expense of someone else. Just some things to consider.

I agree with your basic premises as laid out above.

[rottie]

Originally posted by Stri8tions
How about this Porky, jay81, Cereal...

Im sitting on 30k in debt right now...Im in a financially worst situation then probably all of you...Now, with your thought process I probably deserve financial help from you guys...Why waste your money on movie tickets and protein powder when you can help a starving person like myself...In a more socialist state you would be forced to give me your extra money, why not do it out of goodwill..

I invite all of you to actually participate in your own reasonings...Whats the use of discussing your thoughts when you dont actually follow threw with your beliefs??? I invite you guys to prove your rightousness(sp?) and follow threw in your political comitment...

Please send me your next paycheck, its for the better for you to sacrifice for the better of the whole...
PM for my PO BOX address...

Your sitting on 30K of debt. good for you. Your mother must be proud. . I havent ever heard of a welfare system paying off some idiots loans. You think YOUR rightous? Your nothing more than a bigot.

[jay81]

Originally posted by rottie
Your sitting on 30K of debt. good for you. Your mother must be proud. . I havent ever heard of a welfare system paying off some idiots loans. You think YOUR rightous? Your nothing more than a bigot.

Yeah on second thoughts wouldn't someone 30k in debt be considered a '' waste of human flesh '', '' parasite '' and drain on the economy?

* loads his kalishnikov *

[rottie]

Originally posted by jay81
Yeah on second thoughts wouldn't someone 30k in debt be considered a '' waste of human flesh '', '' parasite '' and drain on the economy?

* loads his kalishnikov *

Why yes.. yes they would.. he probably got that far in debt buying penis enlarging creams, and blowup sheep.

[jay81]

Originally posted by rottie
Why yes.. yes they would.. he probably got that far in debt buying penis enlarging creams, and blowup sheep.

lol probably not too far from the truth!

[rottie]

Originally posted by jay81
lol probably not too far from the truth!

Yup. I'd say right on the money.

[Stri8tions]

I called a 'student loan' you ****ing moron...
paying yourself to go to college has never been a 'social burden'...Its actually the furthest from it...

...Now when I have to pay you idiots to go to college, or your goddamn idiot wrestling school , thats a burden on society...

[antcraw]

I thought this thread had gone away. Damn.

[dave22]

God, socialism again? No more socialism please?

[aaaron]

Was any country really socialist? I thought no socialist countries ever ended up coming to be, only communist ones which are different.

[Stri8tions]

But raising the dead in always fun

[xx0725]

“Since the emancipation of the Negroes, the distinction between the [Democrat and Republican] parties has been diminishing. […] Their fight has not had any serious importance for the mass of the people. The People have been deceived and diverted from their vital interests by means of spectacle and meaningless duel between two bourgeois parties.”

V.I. Lenin
“Results and Significance of U.S. Elections.” 1912.

[dave22]

You ever hear about Lenin's Red Terror? Your hero, is responsible for the deaths of millions of Russians. And then you have his successor who is responsible for the death of 50 million people. Face it, communism is dead, and it's never coming back.

[Carcharodon]

Originally posted by dave22
You ever hear about Lenin's Red Terror? Your hero, is responsible for the deaths of millions of Russians. And then you have his successor who is responsible for the death of 50 million people. Face it, communism is dead, and it's never coming back.

Too bad Leninism ain't dead too. Unfortunately, it's alive and well. Anyone would view the Father of Modern Terror as a hero obviously knows little about Lenin...unless one were Bin Laden.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with Socialism, or the "dictatorship of the proletariat". It has everything to do with totalitarianism, tyranny and elitists.

[dave22]

Originally posted by Carcharodon
Too bad Leninism ain't dead too. Unfortunately, it's alive and well. Anyone would view the Father of Modern Terror as a hero obviously knows little about Lenin...unless one were Bin Laden.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with Socialism, or the "dictatorship of the proletariat". It has everything to do with totalitarianism, tyranny and elitists.

You see, I'd rather see the tyranny. Because in alot of collages, it's cool and hip to be a communist, or a socialist. It's never considered cool to be a facist, or a tyrant supporter.

[Tony Stark]

Originally posted by Stri8tions
But everyone wants a free ride from there big brother-the Government...

...Its just not fair that Im 32, dont have any real work experience because I cant hold a job longer then 1 year, Work at Mc'D's and am addicted to various drugs...The is the worlds fault, and I demand the working middle class to pay for my autracities(sp?)...

You know what is even more sad??? I have a friend that is a manager at Circle K and makes 35k a year salary...Mother ****ing Circle K...The truth of the matter is-if you dont have any real work exp. at the age of 30, you are a complete waste of human flesh...A person can work at ****ing 7/11 for 5-7 years and make 25k+...The people that are still making minimal wage (or near) at that age are worthless imo...There are reasons people cant hold jobs for longer then a year, or have no work exp. at the age of 30...
I will never feel pity to these people because they put themselves in that position...

EDIT: just another one of my many little rants...

*My girlfriends little sister makes 14.50$/hr at ****ing SAFEWAY after 3yrs of working there...NO EXCUSES FOR THESE PARASITES!

The thread was great until I read this.

***Calm down Antonio****

Who gave you the right to judge, label or even comment on the lives of hard working people. I don't give a damn if someone works 20 years a K-Mart making 35k.(like that is bad. )They are productive citizens. What is wrong with that? Worthless? You are calling someone else worthless? You rat mother****er. What about the mother of 3 that is busting her ass at Target making $8.00 but she is still holding her family down. Is she worthless? What about the father who has a family of 4 working as a janitor for the last 20 years making 45k. Is he worthless?

Stri8tions, your the parasite. Your greed, your self love(arrogance) your downright disrepect to others is sucking the life blood out of this great country. If there were no people like you. We would not have had Enron, Worldcom and tons of others companies that have ****ed the working class over just for thier own greed.

I remember you were looking for donations. Would you mind if I sent you two 9mm bullets? Please do us all a favor and USE THEM.

[Starsky]

Originally posted by Carcharodon
Too bad Leninism ain't dead too. Unfortunately, it's alive and well. Anyone would view the Father of Modern Terror as a hero obviously knows little about Lenin...unless one were Bin Laden.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with Socialism, or the "dictatorship of the proletariat". It has everything to do with totalitarianism, tyranny and elitists.

We'll, Lenin actually took advantage of the concept of elitists, by indoctrinating the masses into class hatred in order to advance his own communist agenda. Personally, I would prefer the the Russian Czars to the dictatorship of the Proletariat even if they were both dictatorships.

I always here the leftists saying that "Communism is good in theory", when the fact is, it is terrible in theory because you lose your freedom anyways. How could the Communist or Socialist Party ever succeed in creating their "Utopian" societies without banning free elections?? They couldn't survive because eventually they would be voted out. Karl Marx didn't know jack **** about the real world, and thats why his devotee's have such a dismal record.

[dave22]

Sure people were put to death under the Tsar, but not to the extent under Lenin and Stalin.

[irpker]

Stalin advanced Russia through an Industrial revolution in twenty years. In the process, twenty million people lost their lives. Means don't always justify the ends.

[Starsky]

Originally posted by irpker
Stalin advanced Russia through an Industrial revolution in twenty years. In the process, twenty million people lost their lives. Means don't always justify the ends.

I can guarentee that had communism never taken hold in Russia, they would have advanced alot quicker and be in alot better shape now, Stalin or no Stalin.

[xx0725]

Originally posted by Starsky
How could the Communist or Socialist Party ever succeed in creating their "Utopian" societies without banning free elections??

Google "democratic socialism" and you'll find a few ideas on the subject.

Answer this, Starsky: Do you consider our current elections free when:

1. It requires millions of dollars to run for office at a state or national level.

2. We only allow two parties to seriously enter the ring and those two parties are essentially the same beast.

Yes, we love to present the illusion of free elections, but the political reality is something altogether more constrictive!

[Stri8tions]

Originally posted by Tony Stark
The thread was great until I read this.

***Calm down Antonio****

Who gave you the right to judge, label or even comment on the lives of hard working people. I don't give a damn if someone works 20 years a K-Mart making 35k.(like that is bad. )They are productive citizens. What is wrong with that? Worthless? You are calling someone else worthless? You rat mother****er. What about the mother of 3 that is busting her ass at Target making $8.00 but she is still holding her family down. Is she worthless? What about the father who has a family of 4 working as a janitor for the last 20 years making 45k. Is he worthless?

Stri8tions, your the parasite. Your greed, your self love(arrogance) your downright disrepect to others is sucking the life blood out of this great country. If there were no people like you. We would not have had Enron, Worldcom and tons of others companies that have ****ed the working class over just for thier own greed.

I remember you were looking for donations. Would you mind if I sent you two 9mm bullets? Please do us all a favor and USE THEM.

If someone has been "busting" there ass at kmart (a job ment for a teenager) for 20 years and still makes 8.00$ an hour, she does not deserve MY MONEY...That was the point of the thread, the fact that these people do NOT DESERVE MY MONEY BASED ON THERE INCOMPETENCE TO GET PAST A HIGH-SCHOOL JOB! I made a statement that someone could work a 7-11 and make 35k a year after 6 yearts, WHY then do people still make 8.00$ an hour at 45??? Please tell me why?? Because they continue to ****up at there previous job-THATS WHY! You brought up the janator making 45k, how is he a parasite?? He got promotions and raises-he did a GOOD job, and is now earning 45k a year...IM SICK OF THE PEOPLE WHO CONTINUE TO **** THERE OWN LIVES AND EXPECT MY MONEY!!! Thats what I was trying to say...

I really dont believe you have the brain capasity to get what I said..I said my friend makes 35k a yeat at Circle-K, my sister makes 14.50/hr at SAFEWAY, yet there are lazy, unmotivated idiots out there who make 8.00$ an hour when they are 45 years old..35k or 14.50/hr WILL FEED A FAMILY-I was proud of my friend and sister, I AM NOT PROUD OF PARASITES WHO **** UP AND CANT SUCCEED...The point was EVERY can succeed if they work hard at it-ANYONE CAN SUCCEED IF THEY WORK HARD!!! Get it... The example of my friend and my sister where PRODUCTIVE citizens who have worked for there pay...I was bashing people who cant hold any jobs, get paid 8.00$ an hour at ****ing 40 years old..I believe those people have messed up there own lives and dont deserve anyones help...

Im sorry my posts looks like the average John. H. post, but I dont think I could get my ideas threw any clearer...If a person cant get any real work exp. (ie-gets fored all the time) they dont deserve my tax money, they deserve to be filth..If a person has a legitimate reason for needing my money, I will let them have it...Now do you understand???

[Tony Stark]

Originally posted by Stri8tions
If someone has been "busting" there ass at kmart (a job ment for a teenager) for 20 years and still makes 8.00$ an hour, she does not deserve MY MONEY...That was the point of the thread, the fact that these people do NOT DESERVE MY MONEY BASED ON THERE INCOMPETENCE TO GET PAST A HIGH-SCHOOL JOB! I made a statement that someone could work a 7-11 and make 35k a year after 6 yearts, WHY then do people still make 8.00$ an hour at 45??? Please tell me why?? Because they continue to ****up at there previous job-THATS WHY! You brought up the janator making 45k, how is he a parasite?? He got promotions and raises-he did a GOOD job, and is now earning 45k a year...IM SICK OF THE PEOPLE WHO CONTINUE TO **** THERE OWN LIVES AND EXPECT MY MONEY!!! Thats what I was trying to say...

I really dont believe you have the brain capasity to get what I said..I said my friend makes 35k a yeat at Circle-K, my sister makes 14.50/hr at SAFEWAY, yet there are lazy, unmotivated idiots out there who make 8.00$ an hour when they are 45 years old..35k or 14.50/hr WILL FEED A FAMILY-I was proud of my friend and sister, I AM NOT PROUD OF PARASITES WHO **** UP AND CANT SUCCEED...The point was EVERY can succeed if they work hard at it-ANYONE CAN SUCCEED IF THEY WORK HARD!!! Get it... The example of my friend and my sister where PRODUCTIVE citizens who have worked for there pay...I was bashing people who cant hold any jobs, get paid 8.00$ an hour at ****ing 40 years old..I believe those people have messed up there own lives and dont deserve anyones help...

Im sorry my posts looks like the average John. H. post, but I dont think I could get my ideas threw any clearer...If a person cant get any real work exp. (ie-gets fored all the time) they dont deserve my tax money, they deserve to be filth..If a person has a legitimate reason for needing my money, I will let them have it...Now do you understand???

There is a big difference between someone who is holding his **** down only making $8.00 then someone who is 40 that has been living off of welfare all his life. Everyone is not called to be Jordan, or Bill Gates, or whatever. If that person is HAPPY and whatever they do then they get two ****in thumbs up from me. It is when people like you with your "I am GOD" complex looking down on other just because they have not "reached" where you believe they should be at. Well let me tell you something. They have a reached a place where you will most likely will never reach with your current attitude towards HONEST HARD WORKING people. What is this place? It is called happiness.

You talk all this **** but in another post you ask for STOLEN software? You are a joke my friend.

[Carcharodon]

Originally posted by Starsky
We'll, Lenin actually took advantage of the concept of elitists, by indoctrinating the masses into class hatred in order to advance his own communist agenda. Personally, I would prefer the the Russian Czars to the dictatorship of the Proletariat even if they were both dictatorships.

Yes, precisely he did use that technique. He hijacked and exploited the cause of the working class for his own political gain. He was of the elite himself. He was an intellectual and not even working class. Even if people don't start out from that class, like Hitler, they adopt the elitism, exploit a cause and use terror for political gain.

Sounds familiar doesn't it?