A Serious Multivitamin Question

[NoGutsNoGlory]

Simply stated: Tablets or capsules?



One on end of the arguement you have AST(whose 32x formula is used by no doubt hundreds of members of this board) who maintains that delicate capsules dissolve in the stomach acids much too rapidly, and therefore become largely deactivated in the human body's primordial soup.

The other side of the arguement has been commented on by the highly respected Life Extension brand who also has an exceptional(if not the best) formula available. These folks state that multi tablets are just too compressed and solid to be thoroughly broken down during the window the body has to reap the benefits within a multi, and are too much of a strain on the digestive system to properly assimilate the vast number of vits. & mins. in a complete multivitamin in the time they take to pass through your intestinal tract.



I'm going to be buying a few months worth of the NOW Adam(which come in both tablets and v-caps), and of course, I want to maximize my bodies ability to absorb every last bit of nourishment in each ...pill(couldnt say tablet or cap here, D'oh!).



Does anyone here have any insight into this somewhat miscellaneous yet meaningful debate? IMO, the truth regarding this issue could very well be the difference between average absorption, and ultimate assimilation.

[Forthecross11]

it really doesnt matter...both are going to end up doing the same thing

[MikotoRocks714]

Simply stated: Tablets or capsules?



One on end of the arguement you have AST(whose 32x formula is used by no doubt hundreds of members of this board) who maintains that delicate capsules dissolve in the stomach acids much to rapidly, and therefore become largely deactivated in the human body's primordial soup.

The other side of the arguement has been commented on by the highly respected Life Extension brand who also has an exceptional(if not the best) formula available. These folks state that multi tablets are just too compressed and solid to be thoroughly broken down during the window the body has to reap the benefits within a multi, and are too much of a strain on the digestive system to properly assimilate the vast number of vits. & mins. in a complete multivitamin in the time they take to pass through your intestinal tract.



I'm going to be buying a few months worth of the NOW Adam(which come in both tablets and v-caps), and of course, I want to maximize my bodies ability to absorb every last bit of nourishment in each ...pill(couldnt say tablet or cap here, D'oh!).



Does anyone here have any insight into this somewhat miscellaneous yet meaningful debate? IMO, the truth regarding this issue could very well be the difference between average absorption, and ultimate assimilation.

Well, I love NOW Adam, but it sucks that supposedly it doesn't absorb all the way.

[punksurfer024]

i really havent seen any worth while studies that say that compression tablets dont digest/absorb completly. i personally use NOW adam and have been happy with it since i started using it a couple years back.

[NoGutsNoGlory]

it really doesnt matter...both are going to end up doing the same thing

The question isn't whether both are going to work, obviously the body will absorb a certain amount of the included ingredients from each vehicle.

The issue is which one delivers said ingredients with optimal efficiency and thus, maximum potency.



(?)

[NO HYPE]

Simply stated: Tablets or capsules?

Well it depends entirely on the dissolution rates of the said compound (some compounds aquire poor dissolution rates). When you ingest a capsule.... if it is not enteric coated, than dissolution will mostly be completed within the stomach, thereby making the compound available for physiological uptake quicker than the tablet, and if the tablet just doesn't dissolve well, then the chances of a smaller amount being available to the user is likely. When all is said and done though.... improved solubility, results in improved bioavailability.

[NoGutsNoGlory]

Well it depends entirely on the dissolution rates of the said compound (some compounds aquire poor dissolution rates). When you ingest a capsule.... if it is not enteric coated, than dissolution will mostly be completed within the stomach, thereby making the compound available for physiological uptake quicker than the tablet, and if the tablet just doesn't dissolve well, then the chances of a smaller amount being available to the user is likely. When all is said and done though.... improved solubility, results in improved bioavailability.

Well, that seems like a logical assertion, but then, if dissolution is completed in the stomach prematurely before emptying into the gastrointestinal tract, could the high ph of the acids found therein render many of the delicate ingredients inactive, or perhaps convert them into lesser bioavailable counterparts? This seems to be the negative aspect regarding this side of the arguement. The reply quoted above is only an explanation of sorts, rather than an end that justifies the means. I'm after solid factual closure(an extremely precious commodity to be sure).

I would assume the capsule form would be much more quickly readied for absorption, but what if....it's just a little too quick for it's own good?

[MikotoRocks714]

Who knows man, since it also depends on one's own digestive system since I'm guessing this may vary (or not.) The only thing to do is shrug it off, and hope it works since this is a tough question to answer properly without scientific data/analysis of said supplement.

[NoGutsNoGlory]

Who knows man, since it also depends on one's own digestive system since I'm guessing this may vary (or not.) The only thing to do is shrug it off, and hope it works since this is a tough question to answer properly without scientific data/analysis of said supplement.

Bro, I've shrugged this question off for years now, and while it may not be as important as PWO nutrient timing, I feel the magnitude of this is somewhat underappreciated. I mean, just to illustrate one example of why this question relates to what we do would be that I dont want my gains held back bc I'm unwittingly deficient in some trace mineral(let alone something much more crucial to the entire process of optimal health and well-being) that is not being properly taken in through my multi for no other reason than a sub-optimal vehicle. It probably sounds a little paranoid to some of you that I would question this, but you know they say a good multi is like health insurance, and I sure as hell want to have the best plan going.

I realize it's a tough question. Hopefully someone here who is more knowledgeable and has been bodybuilding longer than myself happens to be versed in this advanced subject matter and is able to shed some light on it for me.

[MikotoRocks714]

Bro, I've shrugged this question off for years now, and while it may not be as important as PWO nutrient timing, I feel the magnitude of this is somewhat underappreciated. I mean, just to illustrate one example of why this question relates to what we do would be that I dont want my gains held back bc I'm unwittingly deficient in some trace mineral(let alone something much more crucial to the entire process of optimal health and well-being) that is not being properly taken in through my multi for no other reason than a sub-optimal vehicle. It probably sounds a little paranoid to some of you that I would question this, but you know they say a good multi is like health insurance, and I sure as hell want to have the best plan going.

I realize it's a tough question. Hopefully someone here who is more knowledgeable and has been bodybuilding longer than myself happens to be versed in this advanced subject matter and is able to shed some light on it for me.

Yeah, I know what you mean man. Ever since I heard the bad news about NOW Adam I've been meh, but I will continue taking it because it just sounds so damn good. Plus, who knows if the other multivitamins are worse when it comes to this same issue. I mean, I know Centrum and the Sam's house brand got a great review for their multi's, but I will feel left out of certain nutrients, also because of their low doses in vitamins/minerals. So, it sucks...

[sonicology]

The other side of the arguement has been commented on by the highly respected Life Extension brand who also has an exceptional(if not the best) formula available.

Funny you should bring this up, because I recently switched to Life Extension Mix after using Adam for over a year. Not that I was unhappy with Adam, but I'd always wanted to try out either LE Mix or Ortho*Core and after reading the reports of tablets not breaking down properly I decided it was time to change to a capsule based multi.

Has it been worth it? It's too early for me to say (only been using LE mix 2 weeks), and besides a multi isn't something you feel working like for example Stim X but I'm happy with my decision. 14 caps a day just from my multi is a lot to swallow tho...

[MikotoRocks714]

Funny you should bring this up, because I recently switched to Life Extension Mix after using Adam for over a year. Not that I was unhappy with Adam, but I'd always wanted to try out either LE Mix or Ortho*Core and after reading the reports of tablets not breaking down properly I decided it was time to change to a capsule based multi.

Has it been worth it? It's too early for me to say (only been using LE mix 2 weeks), and besides a multi isn't something you feel working like for example Stim X but I'm happy with my decision. 14 caps a day just from my multi is a lot to swallow tho...

Damn, I just checked that out. EXPENSIVE! Sounds good though.

[NoGutsNoGlory]

Yeah, I know what you mean man. Ever since I heard the bad news about NOW Adam I've been meh, but I will continue taking it because it just sounds so damn good. Plus, who knows if the other multivitamins are worse when it comes to this same issue. I mean, I know Centrum and the Sam's house brand got a great review for their multi's, but I will feel left out of certain nutrients, also because of their low doses in vitamins/minerals. So, it sucks...

lol,

I'll assume you're not being sarcastic, and take you seriously, but bro, i never said NOW was no good, or anything to that effect. I think you might have misinterpreted me. It's really a moot point with NOW actually, as you can get their multi in either of the forms, so I'm not sure where you're getting this from, but yea, just wanted to clear that up with you.

As far as I know(or care to know) about those other garbage brands you mentioned,

" Centrum sucks " -my parody of Rainman

[MikotoRocks714]

lol,

I'll assume you're not being sarcastic, and take you seriously, but bro, i never said NOW was no good, or anything to that effect. I think you might have misinterpreted me. It's really a moot point with NOW actually, as you can get their multi in either of the forms, so I'm not sure where you're getting this from, but yea, just wanted to clear that up with you.

As far as I know(or care to know) about those other garbage brands you mentioned,

" Centrum sucks " -my parody of Rainman

Oh, my bad... I didn't mean to say that you said NOW Adam sucked. Www. consumerlab. com said it LOL. Well, not in those words exactly LOL.

[NoGutsNoGlory]

Funny you should bring this up, because I recently switched to Life Extension Mix after using Adam for over a year. Not that I was unhappy with Adam, but I'd always wanted to try out either LE Mix or Ortho*Core and after reading the reports of tablets not breaking down properly I decided it was time to change to a capsule based multi.

Has it been worth it? It's too early for me to say (only been using LE mix 2 weeks), and besides a multi isn't something you feel working like for example Stim X but I'm happy with my decision. 14 caps a day just from my multi is a lot to swallow tho...

Heh, I used LE Mix once before myself for about a year. The reason I stopped was the price, but also the 14 caps a day evenly dosed was getting somewhat burdensome. It really is a killer formula, and so, I always had to ask myself...just what if...what if these ingredients were being partially degraded into inert substances due to the capsule vehicle..

I seem to remember that they also offer the mix in tablet form but for a cheaper price. That in and of itself made me paranoid against the tabs.


O the complexities of the human mind...

[sonicology]

I seem to remember that they also offer the mix in tablet form but for a cheaper price. That in and of itself made me paranoid against the tabs.

they do indeed, much like NOW do with Adam in fact. Although nobody seems to be able to find the almost mythical capsule version of Adam - I'm beginning to wonder it's just a figment of my imagination...

[NoGutsNoGlory]

Oh, my bad... I didn't mean to say that you said NOW Adam sucked. Www. consumerlab. com said it LOL. Well, not in those words exactly LOL.

Alright, so what words did they use man.

lol...if I'm sittin here starting a thread about poor absorption issues with multis, and I'm also stating that I'm gonna be picking up the Adam, why didnt you just come out and say that about the findings?

How bad could the review have been if you continue to still buy them and use them? Was it underdosing issues or just breaking down issues?


Spill it bro.

[N0 Limits]

now adam is all i use

[Alphy]

Ive also read that some of the methods of compressing the tablets harms the vitamins.

Ever consider liquids multi's?

[MikotoRocks714]

Alright, so what words did they use man.

lol...if I'm sittin here starting a thread about poor absorption issues with multis, and I'm also stating that I'm gonna be picking up the Adam, why didnt you just come out and say that about the findings?

How bad could the review have been if you continue to still buy them and use them? Was it underdosing issues or just breaking down issues?


Spill it bro.

Ha, ha for some strange reason I was thinking you already knew about this! Hey, who knows man? Maybe it was just THAT batch of NOW Adam that came out with poor breaking down properties... I hope so!

Anyway, here's the link with the NOW Adam breakdown issue. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1137811

The vegetarian capsules of NOW Adam ARE available, just not on here. :/

[NoGutsNoGlory]

Ive also read that some of the methods of compressing the tablets harms the vitamins.

Ever consider liquids multi's?

nah, too messy(my initial reaction).



But seriously though, you make a valid point relevant to this topic via your suggestion.


If a multivitamin is sold in liquid form, wouldn't that lend itself to the capsule's integrity, that the ingredients are able to withstand the pit of acid in our guts without converting into lesser/inert analogues via enzymatic processes?

Hmm... I'll rebut the point with the example of "liquid creatines"(think muscleMarketing USA) in other words, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that liquid multis have extremely low bioavailabilities, and are fraudently promoted as potent bioactive supplements.

Then again, Sci-Fit was able to make a completely stable liquid formula using the ph-corrected kre-alkalyn...

lol....but i doubt the liquid multis have such "corrections" in place.


Still though, in theory, a good way to judge a multi capsules true efficacy, might just be to research how well the human body can utilize and uptake a full-spectrum liquid multi vitamin-mineral.

[MikotoRocks714]

nah, too messy(my initial reaction).



But seriously though, you make a valid point relevant to this topic via your suggestion.


If a multivitamin is sold in liquid form, wouldn't that lend itself to the capsule's integrity, that the ingredients are able to withstand the pit of acid in our guts without converting into lesser/inert analogues via enzymatic processes?

Hmm... I'll rebut the point with the example of "liquid creatines"(think muscleMarketing USA) in other words, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that liquid multis have extremely low bioavailabilities, and are fraudently promoted as potent bioactive supplements.

Then again, Sci-Fit was able to make a completely stable liquid formula using the ph-corrected kre-alkalyn...

lol....but i doubt the liquid multis have such "corrections" in place.


Still though, in theory, a good way to judge a multi capsules true eficacy, might just be to research how well the human body can utilize and uptake a full-spectrum liquid multi vitamin-mineral.

So, erm... I'm guessing we're going to stick with NOW Adam either way? Ha, ha damn I hate being picky with multivitamins.

[NoGutsNoGlory]

Ha, ha for some strange reason I was thinking you already knew about this! Hey, who knows man? Maybe it was just THAT batch of NOW Adam that came out with poor breaking down properties... I hope so!

Anyway, here's the link with the NOW Adam breakdown issue. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1137811

The vegetarian capsules of NOW Adam ARE available, just not on here. :/

Thank you much for the link - I went right to consumerlab after i read that post up there, and was like GTFO here when I saw I had to join them to see their review. Might as well have gone to Bangbus.com

man...that sucks with the breaking down issue. Im way effin glad the sh*ts not underdosed, as then I'd just throw that brand out the window.


So now i'm thinkin...maybe i can crush the tabs up and "deallll with it", or just go look abroad for the capsules.

Speaking of which, where have you seen them available since noone can find them - at a sane price of course.

[MikotoRocks714]

Thank you much for the link - I went right to consumerlab after i read that post up there, and was like GTFO here when I saw I had to join them to see their review. Might as well have gone to Bangbus.com

man...that sucks with the breaking down issue. Im way effin glad the sh*ts not underdosed, as then I'd just throw that brand out the window.


So now i'm thinkin...maybe i can crush the tabs up and "deallll with it", or just go look abroad for the capsules.

Speaking of which, where have you seen them available since noone can find them - at a sane price of course.

Here it is man. http://www.nowfoods.com/index.php?ac...&item_id=13700

By the way, the complete multi report is posted by some dude in that link I posted. Scroll down.

Now that I look at it, it looks like the vegetarian caps might be missing some nutrients... I don't know though.

[NoGutsNoGlory]

Here it is man. http://www.nowfoods.com/index.php?ac...&item_id=13700

By the way, the complete multi report is posted by some dude in that link I posted. Scroll down.

Now that I look at it, it looks like the vegetarian caps might be missing some nutrients... I don't know though.

Now I see why dude up there said this was impossible to find - you can't buy via that link(though of course you know that). NOW doesnt offer it online. You have enter your zip on the site and their javascript finds mom & pop locations around you that carry some of NOW's prods.

Damn. Well, I'm gonna call this one place that's 5 mins away that their script located, but they only have about 100 NOW products in stock(doesnt say what ones, and I'm not that lucky).

Hey who knows, maybe we can get the v-caps through them for cheap via mail like here.










Maybe we DONT want the caps...maybe...the hard to break down tabs have more bio-active value than these elusive "ghost caps". I wish we had a pharmacist on this board who could settle this thing. maybe you could just wrap up the tablets, smash them with a hammer, and then drink the grains with some wheat grass or something of that nature.





" Mr. Owl, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop? " 1-2-3*crunch* .....3.

[MikotoRocks714]

Now I see why dude up there said this was impossible to find - you can't buy via that link(though of course you know that). NOW doesnt offer it online. You have enter your zip on the site and their javascript finds mom & pop locations around you that carry some of NOW's prods.

Damn. Well, I'm gonna call this one place that's 5 mins away that their script located, but they only have about 100 NOW products in stock(doesnt say what ones, and I'm not that lucky).

Hey who knows, maybe we can get the v-caps through them for cheap via mail like here.










Maybe we DONT want the caps...maybe...the hard to break down tabs have more bio-active value than these elusive "ghost caps". I wish we had a pharmacist on this board who could settle this thing. maybe you could just wrap up the tablets, smash them with a hammer, and then drink the grains with some wheat grass or something of that nature.





" Mr. Owl, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop? " 1-2-3*crunch* .....3.

Or what about supplementing with digestive enzymes? LOL.

[deserusan]

Capsules...listen to NO HYPE on this one.

[deserusan]

Capsules...listen to NO HYPE on this one.

[Alphy]

nah, too messy(my initial reaction).



But seriously though, you make a valid point relevant to this topic via your suggestion.


If a multivitamin is sold in liquid form, wouldn't that lend itself to the capsule's integrity, that the ingredients are able to withstand the pit of acid in our guts without converting into lesser/inert analogues via enzymatic processes?

Hmm... I'll rebut the point with the example of "liquid creatines"(think muscleMarketing USA) in other words, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that liquid multis have extremely low bioavailabilities, and are fraudently promoted as potent bioactive supplements.

Then again, Sci-Fit was able to make a completely stable liquid formula using the ph-corrected kre-alkalyn...

lol....but i doubt the liquid multis have such "corrections" in place.


Still though, in theory, a good way to judge a multi capsules true efficacy, might just be to research how well the human body can utilize and uptake a full-spectrum liquid multi vitamin-mineral.

Not sure, but liquids advertise have better absorbtion then any other form. Supposedly the physicians desk reference states that capsule and tablet form are absorbed 2-3% at best, liquids are 80-90%. If you shop around, alot of "high end" multis are in liquid form.

I use only liquids.

[naturalguy]

Here's my understanding, tablets are better IF they are constructed correctly. Many nutrients are sensitive and can/will be destroyed by stomach acid. Caps breakdown quickly in the stomach and many of the micronutrients will be destroyed. A properly coated tablet will protect the sensitive nutrients through the stomach to where they can get absorbed. Nature does this through food. Many micronutrients are protected by food so that it can get passed the stomach to get absorbed.