Longest PSMF Ever?

[wonkers]

I was wondering:

* What's the longest PSMF (Lyle McDonald Rapid Fat Loss style) that anyone here has ever done?
* Did you follow the refeeds as advised and, if so, what category were you in? (1,2,3?)
* How did you do on it in terms of fat loss and other markers?
* Were you able to transition into maintenance?
* How hard was it on a scale of 1 to 10 or relative to other cutting diets?

[th3pwn3r]

I was wondering:

* What's the longest PSMF (Lyle McDonald Rapid Fat Loss style) that anyone here has ever done?
* Did you follow the refeeds as advised and, if so, what category were you in? (1,2,3?)
* How did you do on it in terms of fat loss and other markers?
* Were you able to transition into maintenance?
* How hard was it on a scale of 1 to 10 or relative to other cutting diets?

It was over 4 weeks and when I started I started as a Cat 1 but it was after a couple days off from a previous PSMF from what I recall.

I didn't have refeeds, I did it straight through.
I transitioned into what was supposed to be maintenance for like a week and then just ate too much.

It was a 9 and the only thing tougher was when I went a month only consuming whey, plain un-salted chicken and water. I do believe that the whey, chicken and water only dieting was so rough because work and my GF were stressing me out to the max which nobody needs especially while being on a crazy diet.

[nlite2000]

I was wondering:

* What's the longest PSMF (Lyle McDonald Rapid Fat Loss style) that anyone here has ever done?
* Did you follow the refeeds as advised and, if so, what category were you in? (1,2,3?)
* How did you do on it in terms of fat loss and other markers?
* Were you able to transition into maintenance?
* How hard was it on a scale of 1 to 10 or relative to other cutting diets?

Judging from your height/weight I would say you are category 1, in which case, it would behoove you to follow the rather strict advice/protocol given in the diet. Also, Lyle has a forum, with a subforum for PMSF. I was toying with doing it, decided against it for various reasons, but I learned a lot about it from the those forums.

[th3pwn3r]

Judging from your height/weight I would say you are category 1

I'd probably bet money that most guys with those stats are Cat 2.

[nlite2000]

I'd probably bet money that most guys with those stats are Cat 2.

I'll defer to you then, given that you are that height. He probably wouldn't be asking the question if he were category 1, also.

[nlite2000]

I'd probably bet money that most guys with those stats are Cat 2.

Also--how were your results on it as a cat 1? I still haven't ruled it out, and the idea of losing 3-4 pounds of fat in 2 weeks is still appealing to me.

[th3pwn3r]

Also--how were your results on it as a cat 1? I still haven't ruled it out, and the idea of losing 3-4 pounds of fat in 2 weeks is still appealing to me.

They were pretty damn good man and I was pretty lean at the 144-146 range. Single digits of BF but I definitely didn't have the amount of LBM I'm carrying around with me now. If I were training someone I really don't think I'd suggest a PSMF unless it's a modified version. Things just seem to get too out of control after coming off, regaining fat seems to be a lot worse the harder you diet down. The times I've gained back the most fat were the times I dieted down the hardest. While not being as strict I've dieted down and become leaner without gaining as much fat back. One thing I'd like to add is that I'm starting to think that running a deficit of 1,000 calories per day while being very limited with food options isn't as good as running a deficit of 1,000 calories per day with a greater variety of food. Depriving yourself is an effective way to diet down but when you come off you sure as hell compensate for lost time. Not everyone is this way but a lot of us are more than we'd like to admit as unfortunate as that may be.

[nlite2000]

They were pretty damn good man and I was pretty lean at the 144-146 range. Single digits of BF but I definitely didn't have the amount of LBM I'm carrying around with me now. If I were training someone I really don't think I'd suggest a PSMF unless it's a modified version. Things just seem to get too out of control after coming off, regaining fat seems to be a lot worse the harder you diet down. The times I've gained back the most fat were the times I dieted down the hardest. While not being as strict I've dieted down and become leaner without gaining as much fat back. One thing I'd like to add is that I'm starting to think that running a deficit of 1,000 calories per day while being very limited with food options isn't as good as running a deficit of 1,000 calories per day with a greater variety of food. Depriving yourself is an effective way to diet down but when you come off you sure as hell compensate for lost time. Not everyone is this way but a lot of us are more than we'd like to admit as unfortunate as that may be.

Yeah that's the thing in the cat 1 with the protein requirments, I'd be eating 200-300g of it a day. Why not just run 1000 calorie deficit? It'll work out pretty similar calorie wise. If it's 11-12 days I'm not going to lose any muscle.

[th3pwn3r]

Yea, this is why I suggest people creating a base diet where they hit their protein macro and then add in little bits of whatever they like around that. Cut back on fats and carbs as needed to get the results at the rate you desire.

[wonkers]

I think im currently a cat 1 at around 13-14% bodyfat as measured by a tanita BIA scale. I've been on the PSMF for almost two weeks now without any refeeds for the most part with 500-600 kcal a day.

I started as a cat 2 at 16% and so I've lost almost 6lb of fat and 4 to 5 lb of water. My scale measures LBM and water % so based on that it seems muscle mass has been stable. I can confirm this by seeing my strength hold in the gym with twice a week full body workouts. Stamina/reps is getting shot though as I progress.

I haven't taken advantage of any refeeds yet and I think I'll save those or at least free meals for when I have to eat due to social obligations or special events during the cut if they come up. I'm expecting a meal in about 5 days actually.

I'll save the full day refeed for when I stall or slow down but so far it's been a consistent 0.4lb day on average of fat lost.

I am currently 154lb and 5'11.5" and my muscle mass is extremely low due to diets a did years ago where I didn't touch weights and just did cardio for the most part. Didn't even understand the importance of protein at the time.

Ideally I'd like to take this to sub 10% to finally be done with cutting and start a serious clean bulk and make up for lost time carefully.

I'd like to add that a few months ago I did a PSMF for 3 to 4 weeks and I was having weekly 1 day refeeds and the loss was also consistent although not as much as this time. I made it to almost 11% and then I stopped and maintained for a few weeks but in a spotty way and then I wasn't lifting at all.

This time around I feel I know much more including clear confirmation that calories in/out is all there is to losing or gaining weight especially fat.

I also feel I've lost much of the taste for junk and snacking and I've always appreciated good wholesome meals that should be the goal for anyone looking for healthy nutrition.

I considered bulking and THEN cutting but was too uncomfortable with the belly fat having to stay much longer especially after I absolutely LOVED getting so lean a few months ago with that great feeling but sadly also feeling quite thin. That's when the realization that I had no muscle to speak of really hit home.

So PSMF is a way for me to get the cutting done with fast and while preserving the little muscle I have so I can be comfortable with myself on the way up to a solid lean physique.

I hit around 145lb at the lowest in the last PSMF so that's almost 10lb below where I am now. I've built a little bit of muscle since then and strength and I am noticing it's positive impact with this cut.

When I hit sub10% this time it will only improve with a bulk as I should build much more muscle than fat. I hope to gain at least 10 to 20 lb in a year considering I'm a newbie lifter and that should make a difference.

I can also clearly correlate waist size to bodyfat with an inch off for every 5 fat pounds lost. This has held time and again with me and from others I have seen on this forum.

Can any of you that have been there confirm my expectations and approach?

[nlite2000]

I think im currently a cat 1 at around 13-14% bodyfat as measured by a tanita BIA scale. I've been on the PSMF for almost two weeks now without any refeeds for the most part with 500-600 kcal a day.

I started as a cat 2 at 16% and so I've lost almost 6lb of fat and 4 to 5 lb of water. My scale measures LBM and water % so based on that it seems muscle mass has been stable. I can confirm this by seeing my strength hold in the gym with twice a week full body workouts. Stamina/reps is getting shot though as I progress.

I haven't taken advantage of any refeeds yet and I think I'll save those or at least free meals for when I have to eat due to social obligations or special events during the cut if they come up. I'm expecting a meal in about 5 days actually.

I'll save the full day refeed for when I stall or slow down but so far it's been a consistent 0.4lb day on average of fat lost.

I am currently 154lb and 5'11.5" and my muscle mass is extremely low due to diets a did years ago where I didn't touch weights and just did cardio for the most part. Didn't even understand the importance of protein at the time.

Ideally I'd like to take this to sub 10% to finally be done with cutting and start a serious clean bulk and make up for lost time carefully.

I'd like to add that a few months ago I did a PSMF for 3 to 4 weeks and I was having weekly 1 day refeeds and the loss was also consistent although not as much as this time. I made it to almost 11% and then I stopped and maintained for a few weeks but in a spotty way and then I wasn't lifting at all.

This time around I feel I know much more including clear confirmation that calories in/out is all there is to losing or gaining weight especially fat.

I also feel I've lost much of the taste for junk and snacking and I've always appreciated good wholesome meals that should be the goal for anyone looking for healthy nutrition.

I considered bulking and THEN cutting but was too uncomfortable with the belly fat having to stay much longer especially after I absolutely LOVED getting so lean a few months ago with that great feeling but sadly also feeling quite thin. That's when the realization that I had no muscle to speak of really hit home.

So PSMF is a way for me to get the cutting done with fast and while preserving the little muscle I have so I can be comfortable with myself on the way up to a solid lean physique.

I hit around 145lb at the lowest in the last PSMF so that's almost 10lb below where I am now. I've built a little bit of muscle since then and strength and I am noticing it's positive impact with this cut.

When I hit sub10% this time it will only improve with a bulk as I should build much more muscle than fat. I hope to gain at least 10 to 20 lb in a year considering I'm a newbie lifter and that should make a difference.

I can also clearly correlate waist size to bodyfat with an inch off for every 5 fat pounds lost. This has held time and again with me and from others I have seen on this forum.

Can any of you that have been there confirm my expectations and approach?

Are you currently lifting?

[wonkers]

Are you currently lifting?

At least 2 sometimes 3 times a week. Started 3 months ago. Works much better for PSMF than without that's for sure.

[wonkers]

Yea, this is why I suggest people creating a base diet where they hit their protein macro and then add in little bits of whatever they like around that. Cut back on fats and carbs as needed to get the results at the rate you desire.

i forgot to mention BTW that with the current PSMF cycle I'm doing a Leangains style IF 8 hour feeding window. makes it easier to consume the low cals i feel and i get the benefits of 16 hour fasts more importantly. could be making a difference and is very tolerable if not downright easy.

[nlite2000]

i forgot to mention BTW that with the current PSMF cycle I'm doing a Leangains style IF 8 hour feeding window. makes it easier to consume the low cals i feel and i get the benefits of 16 hour fasts more importantly. could be making a difference and is very tolerable if not downright easy.

I'm on leangains too, that's what made the idea feasible sounding to me. 200-300g of lean protein plus brocolli is a decent amount of food over 8 hours. I feel like I could hack it for 12 days. The only thing is, even on a pretty unrestrictive diet (I don't really deny myself anything, just watch calories) the thought of grilled chicken breast is becoming repulsive to me, since I eat it at least once a day. I don't know if I wouldn't go crazy after 12 days. Maybe if I got some turkey and fish.

[th3pwn3r]

i forgot to mention BTW that with the current PSMF cycle I'm doing a Leangains style IF 8 hour feeding window. makes it easier to consume the low cals i feel and i get the benefits of 16 hour fasts more importantly. could be making a difference and is very tolerable if not downright easy.

Yea, I did the same thing before I even knew the Lean Gains site existed. I would usually eat around 4pm and again at 8-9pm or just have 1 large meal anywhere from 8-10pm.

[YouMadDawg]

I did a 3 month and 2 week PSMF, but the Dukan Diet style. I ran 4-5 days a week and didn't lift one time. I was too tired to lift. My diet was based aroung tuna and turkey and I went from 291 to 245 in the 3 months. The last 2 weeks I starting intaking more carbs to get off the diet. Since stopping the diet I've lifted 4 times a weeks and ran 4 times a week as well. I dropped another 7 pounds in 4 weeks.

I wouldnt PSMF again, I lost too much muscle.

[wonkers]

I did a 3 month and 2 week PSMF, but the Dukan Diet style. I ran 4-5 days a week and didn't lift one time. I was too tired to lift.

I wouldnt PSMF again, I lost too much muscle.

Strange that you felt no energy to lift yet could run 4 to 5 times a week. I feel more able to lift than do high intensity cardio in general.

Lyle McDonalds rapid fat loss handbook outlines the protocol quite in detail and states that muscle loss should be minimal if one follows the program. He knows what he is talking about.

[spicyprice]

I'm on leangains too, that's what made the idea feasible sounding to me. 200-300g of lean protein plus brocolli is a decent amount of food over 8 hours. I feel like I could hack it for 12 days. The only thing is, even on a pretty unrestrictive diet (I don't really deny myself anything, just watch calories) the thought of grilled chicken breast is becoming repulsive to me, since I eat it at least once a day. I don't know if I wouldn't go crazy after 12 days. Maybe if I got some turkey and fish.

the 12 days feel fine up until the last 2 days. By that point (this is fpr myself and my "RFL buddy") you feel like death. Hurts to walk up the stairs, temper is short, mood is crappy. Ebergy is in the dumpster. I have done a 6 week and a 12 day (cat 2 then 1) and the 6v weeks was fine due to the refeeds/cheats. Why the fark anyone is doing this without the refeeds is beyond me. Lyle is VERY specific about the refeeds and why the are needed. Those who dont use the refeeds on the 6 week are killing their metabolism. The same is said for anyone who extends the diet further than is recommended without the diet break. the reason the other poster gained more fat after "dieting harder" was because is farked himself by staying in such a massive deficit for so long with no fat and no carbs (carbs=muy importante for thyroid/leptin/hormone function.)

Strange that you felt no energy to lift yet could run 4 to 5 times a week. I feel more able to lift than do high intensity cardio in general.

Lyle McDonalds rapid fat loss handbook outlines the protocol quite in detail and states that muscle loss should be minimal if one follows the program. He knows what he is talking about.

Muscle loss is minimal because YOU ARENT SUPPOSE TO DO INTENSE CARDIO. Running 5 days a week is insane on 500cals a day. That poster is BEGGING for muscle loss with that situation.



Seriously, if anyone wants to consider this diet, read the book and follow the directions. Lyle is not an idiot. He is very clear on what to do and what not to do.

[nlite2000]

the 12 days feel fine up until the last 2 days. By that point (this is fpr myself and my "RFL buddy") you feel like death. Hurts to walk up the stairs, temper is short, mood is crappy. Ebergy is in the dumpster. I have done a 6 week and a 12 day (cat 2 then 1) and the 6v weeks was fine due to the refeeds/cheats. Why the fark anyone is doing this without the refeeds is beyond me. Lyle is VERY specific about the refeeds and why the are needed. Those who dont use the refeeds on the 6 week are killing their metabolism. The same is said for anyone who extends the diet further than is recommended without the diet break. the reason the other poster gained more fat after "dieting harder" was because is farked himself by staying in such a massive deficit for so long with no fat and no carbs (carbs=muy importante for thyroid/leptin/hormone function.)


Muscle loss is minimal because YOU ARENT SUPPOSE TO DO INTENSE CARDIO. Running 5 days a week is insane on 500cals a day. That poster is BEGGING for muscle loss with that situation.



Seriously, if anyone wants to consider this diet, read the book and follow the directions. Lyle is not an idiot. He is very clear on what to do and what not to do.

How much fat did you lose when you did it as a category 1?

[spicyprice]

How much fat did you lose when you did it as a category 1?

dry weight to dry weight was about 147 to 144.

[wonkers]

dry weight to dry weight was about 147 to 144.

and i assume that's over 12 days? if so then you must have been doing 1000+ calories per day since i would guess you would have had a bigger weight (fat?) loss running at 500-800 per day and considering your dry weight. i've been doing at least 2.5 pounds a week consistently for the last two weeks.

what's the lofat carbfest feel like after the 12 days in terms of energy and mental function? is it like nirvana? =)

[spicyprice]

and i assume that's over 12 days? if so then you must have been doing 1000+ calories per day since i would guess you would have had a bigger weight (fat?) loss running at 500-800 per day and considering your dry weight. i've been doing at least 2.5 pounds a week consistently for the last two weeks.

what's the lofat carbfest feel like after the 12 days in terms of energy and mental function? is it like nirvana? =)

That was end of cat 2 before refeed, 14 days at what I thought was maintenance (was pretty far off/under) and then 12 days cat1. Even my 6 weeks wasnt anything impressive, although I counted and measured and followed directions to a T.

The carbfest was more like a bloatfest srs water retention issues, but that is nothing abnormal for me. Made me feel crappy for a few days. I started to feel better after about a week, but then again I was slowly upping cals, never got above 2k (although maintenance per bodybugg is about 2600+) then dropped back down to 16-1700 to diet. didnt take the full 2 week break so I think what recovery I did have took a while.

[YouMadDawg]

Strange that you felt no energy to lift yet could run 4 to 5 times a week. I feel more able to lift than do high intensity cardio in general.

Yeah man. I had no choice. I had to run for Army PT. If I wasn't forced to run, I probably wouldn't have lost so much weight. I ran a pretty slow pace too...2 miles in around 17-18 minutes, whereas, now that I'm eating balanced, running mid-14 minute 2 mile runs.

[lunchboy]

If you're in the army I wouldn't suggest doing a diet that restrictive. You need the energy to train and get into shape. My brother lost around 40lbs when he was in the army just from the PT training and whatnot. He looked completely different after basic.

[YouMadDawg]

If you're in the army I wouldn't suggest doing a diet that restrictive. You need the energy to train and get into shape. My brother lost around 40lbs when he was in the army just from the PT training and whatnot. He looked completely different after basic.

^ absolutely. I did it just to try it and I'm done. I don't need to drop any more weight as I pass the body fat standards. But this is so true. Being in a physical job and restricting yourself so much is a bad mix.

[wowbob396]

I am doing a 2 week psmf just to keep the weight down, I am currently 135( havent updated my info ) and I am simply doing it because I am in wrestling and I want to be around 126 to 132 next year for my ideal weight. 3 days in it isn't too horrible, but I am starting to get mad cravings.

[lunchboy]

Well...you don't need to lose that much fat to come in at weight, there are also water cutting techniques you could do as well, though I imagine your coach knows this as well. I don't think a PSMF is necessary though, just do the slow route to weight loss so you can easily maintain the loss.

Also, you're 15, I highly doubt you're going to have similar stats next year (you're likely going to get taller/bigger boned overall). I would say eat to grow right now, 15-18 is prime time for muscle growth. With the higher mass/strength you could compete at a higher weight class. I don't think you're going to know your ideal weight until you stop growing.

[Roundheya]

Am I the only one against calorie restrictions during puberty? My growth stalled for a year because of a quack doctor and a 1k calorie diet. Diets... Worthless without intention to make a lasting change.

I wish I would have had the motivation and desire then that I have now. I certainly wouldn't have "dieted".

Lifestyle change... 1k or less is insanity unless you're a scientist with food. I wont discount anyone who does, but I wouldn't want to do it. Slow and steady high protein intake for me please.

[nlite2000]

Am I the only one against calorie restrictions during puberty? My growth stalled for a year because of a quack doctor and a 1k calorie diet. Diets... Worthless without intention to make a lasting change.

I wish I would have had the motivation and desire then that I have now. I certainly wouldn't have "dieted".

Lifestyle change... 1k or less is insanity unless you're a scientist with food. I wont discount anyone who does, but I wouldn't want to do it. Slow and steady high protein intake for me please.

high school wrestlers do it all the time.



And if you're talking about calorie restrictions for obese pubescents, then that's a whole different thing. They need to cut calories if they're obese.

Now a 15 year old who is 13% bodyfat and too skinny already, who wants "de abz" is a different story.

[wowbob396]

Well...you don't need to lose that much fat to come in at weight, there are also water cutting techniques you could do as well, though I imagine your coach knows this as well. I don't think a PSMF is necessary though, just do the slow route to weight loss so you can easily maintain the loss.

Also, you're 15, I highly doubt you're going to have similar stats next year (you're likely going to get taller/bigger boned overall). I would say eat to grow right now, 15-18 is prime time for muscle growth. With the higher mass/strength you could compete at a higher weight class. I don't think you're going to know your ideal weight until you stop growing.

Yeah, that is true. I do know water cutting techniques, but I think it would make my life a lot easier to keep weight from going too high and my ideal weights to wrestle at next year is 126 or 132 so depending on how much I grow that can change.