Layne Norton Power/Hypertrophy

[captainhook1]

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi...trophy_Routine

Has anyone tried this old version of the program? before he switched it. to me, this one seems much better than the new, updated one. anyone seen any strength gains while on this?!?!

[fitmember]

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi...trophy_Routine

Has anyone tried this old version of the program? before he switched it. to me, this one seems much better than the new, updated one. anyone seen any strength gains while on this?!?!

I just copied it and gonna start doing this now

[captainhook1]

alright, i think personally it looks like a good program. just seeing if anyone has done it and seen solid gains.

[Jax05]

What's wrong with the new one?

[captainhook1]

What's wrong with the new one?

im not saying anything is wrong with it. its about what suits your personal needs and what you feel will work best.

personally, only benching one time a week on a hypertrophy day (not even a power day), doesnt make a lot of sense to me. i bench 330 at 168 body weight and dont feel i can continue to increase that number or even keep it the same while only performing the lift once a week and at 65 to 70 percent of my normal 3-5 reps, it just wouldnt work for ME.

also, from day 6 to day 1 doesnt seem like long enough break in between those two days where some lifts are the same or similar. once again, just me.

i believe the old version compensates for both of these "errors"

[Jax05]

To be honest, until I read your thread, I didn't even know there was an "old" and "new" version of this program.

I guess I'm following the "new" one...and I see your point about bench press.

[captainhook1]

To be honest, until I read your thread, I didn't even know there was an "old" and "new" version of this program.

I guess I'm following the "new" one...and I see your point about bench press.

has your bench press went up at all throughout the program? it just doesnt seem very possible..

[Jax05]

has your bench press went up at all throughout the program? it just doesnt seem very possible..

No, not during this program. I have made some progress on Madcow's that I've done previously.

However, my chest does get sore after each chest session...

[pumplikecuming]

It worked well, but there are much better alternatives for you...just by looking at your avi.

[AmazinJason]

This isn't a set-in-stone program. You don't have to follow his lifts to a T. PHAT is a TEMPLATE that one should follow. The program he provided was the workout that is catered towards HIMSELF, not anyone else.

Honestly, PHAT is more of a hypertrophy routine than a strength one. After all, Layne Norton IS a bodybuilder. But a lot of hypertrophy programs out there focus mostly in the 8-12 rep range while neglecting the lower rep ranges (1-5). But PHAT emphasizes the necessity to work across all rep ranges, which is why it includes the 2 power days. But really, if you want to make strength gains, stick to a power lifting routine like 5x5. PHAT is a hybrid strength and hypertrophy program more focus on hypertrophy than strength.

[captainhook1]

It worked well, but there are much better alternatives for you...just by looking at your avi.

what are these "better alternatives"?

[captainhook1]

This isn't a set-in-stone program. You don't have to follow his lifts to a T. PHAT is a TEMPLATE that one should follow. The program he provided was the workout that is catered towards HIMSELF, not anyone else.

Honestly, PHAT is more of a hypertrophy routine than a strength one. After all, Layne Norton IS a bodybuilder. But a lot of hypertrophy programs out there focus mostly in the 8-12 rep range while neglecting the lower rep ranges (1-5). But PHAT emphasizes the necessity to work across all rep ranges, which is why it includes the 2 power days. But really, if you want to make strength gains, stick to a power lifting routine like 5x5. PHAT is a hybrid strength and hypertrophy program more focus on hypertrophy than strength.

i wanna be strong and big. i dont wanna just look big and not be strong..but i dont wanna just be strong and not look big. so i thought this program might be a good choice.?

[AmazinJason]

i wanna be strong and big. i dont wanna just look big and not be strong..but i dont wanna just be strong and not look big. so i thought this program might be a good choice.?

The thing about PHAT is... there really is no progression built into the program on the power days. You kind of have to come up with your own stuff on how you want to progress.

Since it seems like you want to gain strength and size equally, you might want to look into 5/3/1 and GST. For 5/3/1, just choose the bodybuilder template. The programming of the main lifts will help you consistently gain strength and your assistance lifts catered towards bodybuilding will help you gain size. Same with GST.

[captainhook1]

The thing about PHAT is... there really is no progression built into the program on the power days. You kind of have to come up with your own stuff on how you want to progress.

Since it seems like you want to gain strength and size equally, you might want to look into 5/3/1 and GST. For 5/3/1, just choose the bodybuilder template. The programming of the main lifts will help you consistently gain strength and your assistance lifts catered towards bodybuilding will help you gain size. Same with GST.

any good links?

[AmazinJason]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=112382761

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121353501

[pumplikecuming]

i wanna be strong and big. i dont wanna just look big and not be strong..but i dont wanna just be strong and not look big. so i thought this program might be a good choice.?

Post a video of someone who is small/non muscular per square inch for their height who can bench press 405.

Since being strong means NOT being big...go ahead.

[xTempest]

I've solved this by doing the bench on the power day and the DB on the hypertrophy day. You can move the program around how you want to be honest, could even do bench on both days if you wanted.

[captainhook1]

Post a video of someone who is small/non muscular per square inch for their height who can bench press 405.

Since being strong means NOT being big...go ahead.

by big, i dont mean fat. im sure you dont have a six pack and toned arms to go along with that 405.

[captainhook1]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=112382761

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121353501

you really think 5-3-1 or GST would be better? im not convinced..

[AmazinJason]

you really think 5-3-1 or GST would be better? im not convinced..

No one knows which program is the best, or else there wouldn't be so many programs out there.

Do whatever program you want. If you work hard and eat correctly, you WILL get stronger and you WILL get bigger.

You said you wanted strength gains, because you were worried you wouldn't see strength gains with PHAT. So I gave you not one, but TWO phucking programs that have strength gains BUILT INTO the program. You aren't convinced? I don't care. Nobody else cares either. No one is going to sit here and try to convince you that one program is better for you than the other, because quite frankly, it differs for everyone. Choose a program and do it.

[captainhook1]

No one knows which program is the best, or else there wouldn't be so many programs out there.

Do whatever program you want. If you work hard and eat correctly, you WILL get stronger and you WILL get bigger.

You said you wanted strength gains, because you were worried you wouldn't see strength gains with PHAT. So I gave you not one, but TWO phucking programs that have strength gains BUILT INTO the program. You aren't convinced? I don't care. Nobody else cares either. No one is going to sit here and try to convince you that one program is better for you than the other, because quite frankly, it differs for everyone. Choose a program and do it.

okay?

[ShaneSwan]

PHAT is, essentially, 2 power days and 3 hypertrophy days, with each 'main' muscle group getting trained twice per week. Thats the skeleton of it. Simple. How you fill those training days out, and how you design the splits, is up to the trainee and their goals/experience/etc.

[Roniboney]

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi...trophy_Routine

Has anyone tried this old version of the program? before he switched it. to me, this one seems much better than the new, updated one. anyone seen any strength gains while on this?!?!

i did and do the older version.I prefer it to the new one.Saw some pretty solid gains alright.THey are slow gains but you can consistently get stronger.

Effectively though its 2 power days and 2-3 hypertrophy days depending on how you structure the programme.Good luck.Check my log if you want to see my structure.

[Roniboney]

has your bench press went up at all throughout the program? it just doesnt seem very possible..

My bench is well below yours OP but im progressing by 2.5kg every 3-4 weeks on my bench.
Slow and consistent.
If your looking for fast gains then PHAT isnt for you.Try a powerlifting style programme.

This isn't a set-in-stone program. You don't have to follow his lifts to a T. PHAT is a TEMPLATE that one should follow. The program he provided was the workout that is catered towards HIMSELF, not anyone else.

Honestly, PHAT is more of a hypertrophy routine than a strength one. After all, Layne Norton IS a bodybuilder. But a lot of hypertrophy programs out there focus mostly in the 8-12 rep range while neglecting the lower rep ranges (1-5). But PHAT emphasizes the necessity to work across all rep ranges, which is why it includes the 2 power days. But really, if you want to make strength gains, stick to a power lifting routine like 5x5. PHAT is a hybrid strength and hypertrophy program more focus on hypertrophy than strength.

This is pretty much true.Layne keeps the power days in to slowly get stronger whilst getting bigger via his hypertrophy days.Having said that if your after fast gains then its not for you.If you cannot get the right mindset to accept that you will have to run it for maybe 6 months to a year to see great results its not for you

[captainhook1]

My bench is well below yours OP but im progressing by 2.5kg every 3-4 weeks on my bench.
Slow and consistent.
If your looking for fast gains then PHAT isnt for you.Try a powerlifting style programme.



This is pretty much true.Layne keeps the power days in to slowly get stronger whilst getting bigger via his hypertrophy days.Having said that if your after fast gains then its not for you.If you cannot get the right mindset to accept that you will have to run it for maybe 6 months to a year to see great results its not for you

thanks man, great advice

[StoneColdMC]

As has been said above, PHAT is a template, not a set routine. You can easily change things around to better suit your needs. That's what I did. I wanted to keep improving my bench press, so I do bench press on my power days instead of dumbbell bench.

I've been doing PHAT for about six months now and I'm making great gains. I'm getting much bigger, and have been making good progress on my main lifts like bench, squats, and deadlifts.

[Apex702]

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi...trophy_Routine

Has anyone tried this old version of the program? before he switched it. to me, this one seems much better than the new, updated one. anyone seen any strength gains while on this?!?!

If it's only a template, would switching arms and shoulders be a big issue?

I ask because I personally like working my shoulders the same day as my chest. Will this throw the program "off"?

[ShaneSwan]

If it's only a template, would switching arms and shoulders be a big issue?

I ask because I personally like working my shoulders the same day as my chest. Will this throw the program "off"?

No. Where will you put arms, with back?

[AmazinJason]

If it's only a template, would switching arms and shoulders be a big issue?

I ask because I personally like working my shoulders the same day as my chest. Will this throw the program "off"?

As long as you have 2 power days and 3 hypertrophy days, I really don't think it matters how you split the hypertrophy days up.

Just make sure you are getting an upper power, lower power, and 3 days for hypertrophy.


I know some people who split it so it so their hypertrophy days were chest/shoulder/tri, back/bi, and legs. I know others who did chest/tri, back/bi, and shoulders/legs.

[Apex702]

No. Where will you put arms, with back?

Yes, I like the idea of working out my back and arms on the same day as opposed to chest and arms.