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  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by mybodybliss View Post
    cool! thanks for the alternative BUT doesn't it hurt the inside of your arms?
    You get used to it. You can also use a towel or a bar pad.
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  2. #32
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    You get used to it. You can also use a towel or a bar pad.
    sounds more comfy! any thoughts on letting the barbell hang down infront?
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  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    You get used to it. You can also use a towel or a bar pad.
    huh? with a clean? I'm sure I'm missing something because you can't use a towel or a pad with a clean.
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  4. #34
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    Talking

    Originally Posted by gbg View Post
    huh? with a clean? I'm sure I'm missing something because you can't use a towel or a pad with a clean.
    nah, she's referring to the Zercher squat
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  5. #35
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    Originally Posted by mybodybliss View Post
    sounds more comfy! any thoughts on letting the barbell hang down infront?
    I'm not sure what you are asking? Doing squats while holding the bar? Like a deadlift?
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  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by gbg View Post
    huh? with a clean? I'm sure I'm missing something because you can't use a towel or a pad with a clean.
    Yeah, zerchers. I haven't totally lost my mind. Yet
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  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    Yeah, zerchers. I haven't totally lost my mind. Yet
    Oh! kay my bad
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  8. #38
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    Some good reading on box squats, which I believe is a great way to learn how to squat.


    http://www.elitefts.com/documents/box-squat.htm
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  9. #39
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    What about Lumberjack Squats?

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  10. #40
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    Originally Posted by gbg View Post
    Some good reading on box squats, which I believe is a great way to learn how to squat.


    http://www.elitefts.com/documents/box-squat.htm
    I think box squats are great if you already know how to squat.
    Then, for athletes Poliquin doesn't recommend them, and I agree when he says they change soft tissue quality and make you stiffer.
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  11. #41
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    Originally Posted by Euqinom View Post
    I think box squats are great if you already know how to squat.
    Then, for athletes Poliquin doesn't recommend them, and I agree when he says they change soft tissue quality and make you stiffer.
    Do you have an article or something regarding this? would like to know his reasoning behind it as well as why he doesn't recommend them.
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  12. #42
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  13. #43
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    Had my coach read the article, he is much more experienced in this then me and wanted his input.
    Quoted paragraphs are from the article.

    "The problem I have with box squats is that their application is limited to powerlifting. The reason being is the goal of powerlifting is to lift the highest amount of weight for the shortest amount of distance within the rules. Essentially in the box squat, your shins don't travel forward. Now I don't know of any sport where the shins don't travel forward for propulsion. So the mechanics of the box squat aren't found in sport."

    No one squats with a bar on their back in most sports other than powerlifting either. While the recruitment pattern is different, that is all that it is: different. This does not make it useless.

    "Also, any sort of restricted movement pattern tends to change soft tissue integrity. One thing you'll find with people who do a lot of box squats is that they're abnormally tight in the piriformis muscle, for example. In sports where you have to change direction a lot, the box squat will actually decrease your power because you won't be able to use those muscles efficiently."

    There is zero evidence to support this. Simmons is a consultant for at least two pro football teams, both of which use box squats in their training. They would drop them in a heartbeat if they slowed them down.

    "Finally, most of the athletes I have are highly paid. There's a risk when doing box squats of the athlete bouncing on the box due to lack of concentration. The trauma that can result on the sacral vertebraes could be tremendous. There are just better alternatives. If you're a powerlifter, they're great. If you're any other type of athlete, stay away from the box squat."

    Increase in compressive force is easier on the spine than the shearing force normally presented when squatting. Also, if someone cannot concentrate for the second it takes to sit on a box, they ****ing fail as an athlete. This is a terrible excuse not to do them.
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  14. #44
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    Interesting stuff about box squats, Euqinom and gbg!

    I've never done them and have kind of assumed that they're more a psychological tool to help with the form on squats. I guess there's a bit more to it than that ...
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  15. #45
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    Originally Posted by gbg View Post
    There is zero evidence to support this. Simmons is a consultant for at least two pro football teams, both of which use box squats in their training. They would drop them in a heartbeat if they slowed them down.
    Well, send it to poliquin. You don't have to convince me, you wanted an article. :P


    I do notice a difference in my assessments prior to and after box squatting 2x a week for about 5-6 months straight (and yes, it's the same 20 tests, and no, I didn't make them up myself. And yes, I wish I had done those assessments when I started my first WSB stretch);This is why I am inclined to think he used his training observations when coming to this statement. Because I notice the same thing going on. I could be wrong, though. In all fairness, I use the jumpstretch bands while box squatting, and I have not enough experience to determine sufficiently if it is the box squat's fault, or the bands I'm using. Nevertheless, I seem to do fine on the bonuslifts and max effort without bands. :S

    And the concentration part is exactly why I don't think it is a great way to teach beginners to box squat. Most beginners are not high class athletes. Furthermore, do we know what those football teams do for soft tissue (p)rehab? I'm devoting time daily to counter the stiffness. I am pretty much sure those guys have a few people on board to keep them flexible and mobile. Unlike the average trainee in the average gym. This is who we were talking about. I also noticed most strength coaches I checked out, emphasize that they use the box squat *among others*, his final comment on bodybuilders etc using them sparingly makes me wonder: could it be that we are talking about structural vs. sparing use? I certainly tend to think so.

    I also think he doesn't call box squatting useless, but rather chooses other options. But I understand we see things very differently, and I think it is a good thing to be open to other readings or opinions, blablabla..

    To top it all off, I'll link to a box squat article by Dave Tate. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...om_head_to_toe

    And i'll even throw in an Eric Cressey quote, because I don't think we're that far apart in opinions.

    "Second, box squats are one tool in your toolbox; we use them in addition to a lot of other lower extremity exercises. <...> Nobody ever criticized chin-ups because they don’t target the gastrocnemius – but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t useful for what they’re intended."
    Last edited by Euqinom; 06-14-2011 at 03:06 PM.
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  16. #46
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    Originally Posted by thedogdidit View Post
    Interesting stuff about box squats, Euqinom and gbg!

    I've never done them and have kind of assumed that they're more a psychological tool to help with the form on squats. I guess there's a bit more to it than that ...
    No there's really not, people make things a lot more complicated then they are
    Originally Posted by Euqinom View Post
    Well, send it to poliquin. You don't have to convince me, you wanted an article. :P


    I do notice a difference in my assessments prior to and after box squatting 2x a week for about 5-6 months straight (and yes, it's the same 20 tests, and no, I didn't make them up myself. And yes, I wish I had done those assessments when I started my first WSB stretch);This is why I am inclined to think he used his training observations when coming to this statement. Because I notice the same thing going on. I could be wrong, though. In all fairness, I use the jumpstretch bands while box squatting, and I have not enough experience to determine sufficiently if it is the box squat's fault, or the bands I'm using. Nevertheless, I seem to do fine on the bonuslifts and max effort without bands. :S

    And the concentration part is exactly why I don't think it is a great way to teach beginners to box squat. Most beginners are not high class athletes. Furthermore, do we know what those football teams do for soft tissue (p)rehab? I'm devoting time daily to counter the stiffness. I am pretty much sure those guys have a few people on board to keep them flexible and mobile. Unlike the average trainee in the average gym. This is who we were talking about. I also noticed most strength coaches I checked out, emphasize that they use the box squat *among others*, his final comment on bodybuilders etc using them sparingly makes me wonder: could it be that we are talking about structural vs. sparing use? I certainly tend to think so.

    I also think he doesn't call box squatting useless, but rather chooses other options. But I understand we see things very differently, and I think it is a good thing to be open to other readings or opinions, blablabla..

    To top it all off, I'll link to a box squat article by Dave Tate. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...om_head_to_toe

    And i'll even throw in an Eric Cressey quote, because I don't think we're that far apart in opinions.

    "Second, box squats are one tool in your toolbox; we use them in addition to a lot of other lower extremity exercises. <...> Nobody ever criticized chin-ups because they don’t target the gastrocnemius – but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t useful for what they’re intended."
    Agree that they are not the end-all be-all, however, there is zero evidence to support a change in soft tissue structure. And box squatting is also used to teach squatting to athletes in many disciplines to not only teach breaking from the hips should this be desired, but as a tool for teaching proper depth. And box squatting does not need to be done PL'er style, some OL'ers have experimented with box squatting, and this, in fact, where it originated. The original Westside barbell club in Culver City Ca. pioneered box squatting as a training tool, and they were a mix of lifters, including George Frenn, who competed in both OL'ing and PL'ing.

    It is safe to say that of course pro teams do everything possible to ensure the mobility of their athletes. Rather than say that this is a reason that they can get away with box squatting, possibly it is a lesson we can all learn from?
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  17. #47
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    Originally Posted by gbg View Post
    Rather than say that this is a reason that they can get away with box squatting, possibly it is a lesson we can all learn from?
    One does not exclude the other, if you phrase this like that.

    And sure, sure, sure, just keep repeating what you already said. it will so build up the 'discussion'. Know what? I'll rep you for taking the effort as soon as I've gotten over my summoning sickness for reps..
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    Thumbs up Yay!

    Originally Posted by thedogdidit View Post
    What about Lumberjack Squats?

    YES! these look awesome! thanks so much :-) will these target the same areas as a regular front squat? also, any negative aspects of these?
    Last edited by mybodybliss; 06-16-2011 at 06:00 PM.
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    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    I'm not sure what you are asking? Doing squats while holding the bar? Like a deadlift?
    yes that's right. May be a little hard on the back though but this is where I left the dumbell since I couldn't lift it up...hehe. ;-)
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    Thumbs up thumbs up!

    Originally Posted by mybodybliss View Post
    YES! these look awesome! thanks so much :-) will these target the same areas as a regular front squat? also, any negative aspects of these?
    just to update....I tried these LUMBERJACK SQUATS last night and LOVED them! was able to go much heavier.
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  21. #51
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    Originally Posted by mybodybliss View Post
    just to update....I tried these LUMBERJACK SQUATS last night and LOVED them! was able to go much heavier.
    Good! You really don't want to do squats holding the bar like you do for a deadlift.
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    Thumbs up Kewl!

    Originally Posted by mybodybliss View Post
    just to update....I tried these LUMBERJACK SQUATS last night and LOVED them! was able to go much heavier.
    Those LOOK awesome!

    I am going to add those next Leg day!

    Killing myslef right now with weighted Bulgarian Split squats holy CRAP!
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  23. #53
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    Originally Posted by mybodybliss View Post
    just to update....I tried these LUMBERJACK SQUATS last night and LOVED them! was able to go much heavier.
    Oh, I'm glad! Check out Youtube for some variations, too. Like squat with a press at end -- so just do your squat then press the bar all the way up. That'll give you even more of a workout.

    Another thing you can do with the barbell in same spot, but reduce the weight way down!, is anti-rotation exercises. Good for core.


    I know that's got nothing to do with squats, but since you've got the bar in position anyway, you might wanna give it a shot.
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  24. #54
    <3's squats KimValentine's Avatar
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    Landmines are a killer core exercise when you rotate your body and pivot your feet to bring the bar down to your shin and back up and down to the other side. You'll have to flex your core really hard to bring the bar back up.
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    Originally Posted by thedogdidit View Post
    Oh, I'm glad! Check out Youtube for some variations, too. Like squat with a press at end -- so just do your squat then press the bar all the way up. That'll give you even more of a workout.

    Another thing you can do with the barbell in same spot, but reduce the weight way down!, is anti-rotation exercises. Good for core.

    I know that's got nothing to do with squats, but since you've got the bar in position anyway, you might wanna give it a shot.
    WOW! LOVE them :-) I'd love to try them today but it's bloody rest day! Thanks again,will let you know how I go. xx
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    Red face

    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    Good! You really don't want to do squats holding the bar like you do for a deadlift.
    nah....didn't think so but it worked for one day.
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    Question thanks

    Originally Posted by KimValentine View Post
    Landmines are a killer core exercise when you rotate your body and pivot your feet to bring the bar down to your shin and back up and down to the other side. You'll have to flex your core really hard to bring the bar back up.
    like a regular lumberjack(not the squat) but in reverse? ie:instead of going up over shoulder-down to shin? How are they on the back?

    *BTW ladies-how the hell do I quote multiple peoples messages in one single reply? there only seems to be a tab to multi-quote within 1 message?
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    Originally Posted by mybodybliss View Post
    like a regular lumberjack(not the squat) but in reverse? ie:instead of going up over shoulder-down to shin? How are they on the back?
    hmm... not sure what you mean here. Landmines are in the youtube video above, but KimValentine is talking about a variation on those where your body is kind of getting into the whole swing of it (Lol - she describes it much better) which you can also find on youtube. It has nothing to do with squats ... I just threw it out there because the barbell is in the same position - one end wedged into a corner somewhere.

    *BTW ladies-how the hell do I quote multiple peoples messages in one single reply? there only seems to be a tab to multi-quote within 1 message?
    click on that little multi-quote button in each of the posts you want to reply to (I think it retains the order, too, so you can pick posts in the order you'd like to reply by clicking in that order-- did that make any sense?) and then click on the main quote button (bottom left corner). I hope that helps.
    Practice it, hit preview post to see if it worked, and then just back out without submitting reply.
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    This thread is great, should be a sticky.

    I did the lumberjacks today for the first time and wow! Did 3x8 at 110lbs (50kg) and I am tireeeed
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by thedogdidit View Post
    hmm... not sure what you mean here. Landmines are in the youtube video above, but KimValentine is talking about a variation on those where your body is kind of getting into the whole swing of it (Lol - she describes it much better) which you can also find on youtube. It has nothing to do with squats ... I just threw it out there because the barbell is in the same position - one end wedged into a corner somewhere.


    click on that little multi-quote button in each of the posts you want to reply to (I think it retains the order, too, so you can pick posts in the order you'd like to reply by clicking in that order-- did that make any sense?) and then click on the main quote button (bottom left corner). I hope that helps.
    Practice it, hit preview post to see if it worked, and then just back out without submitting reply.
    I was thinking of the standard lumber jack exercise where it's like you're chopping wood on the ground or 'woodchops'-you know the ab exercise?
    Since then I've done a few Lumberjack squats and in the process discovered(I think!) what Kim was referring to as 'landmines'....they feel GREAT in the obliques and practically all over the core! and not bad on the back at all. Thanks KIM! xx

    and thanks THEDOGDIDIT-I'll keep trying with the replies.

    BTW ladies.....a nice little addition to the LUMBERJACK SQUAT I discovered is to go up on your toes when you bring the barbell up to the top of the movement-working your calves aswell! (*damn I love this exercise*)
    Last edited by mybodybliss; 06-19-2011 at 05:37 PM.
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