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  1. #1
    Registered User 690's Avatar
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    Is it rape to have sex with an intoxicated person?

    This is something I have heard before but I didn't realize it was such a common position for people to hold. I personally don't agree with this, even if it is immoral to do so it falls short of what I would consider 'rape'. However in my quest to be open minded I was hoping someone here could clarify the position.

    As far as I can tell the thought process is something like this

    - rape = sex without consent
    - intoxicated people cannot give consent
    - therefore, sex with an intoxicated person = rape

    To me if you let the term rape cover everything from pulling a jogger into the bushes and assaulting her to a drunk party girl who regrets her decision the next day it really softens the term and is a disservice to people who have gone through the extreme trauma of rape.

    At what point is someone too intoxicated to give consent? What if both parties are intoxicated? What if a girl did give consent but then feels embarrassed the next day by her actions and claims she was taken advantage of? It seems too much of this is open to interpretation and some unfortunate people are going to get stuck with a rape charge when they really did nothing wrong.
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  2. #2
    Mr. Gecko Kiknskreem's Avatar
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    Just as a general truism?

    No, that is a fukcing retarded definition.
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  3. #3
    Registered User 690's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiknskreem View Post
    Just as a general truism?

    No, that is a fukcing retarded definition.
    But I hear people arguing that position. I'm hoping someone here can help me understand that point of view, because I really don't. Generally, at the very least I understand where the person is coming from when I disagree with them - if not I make an effort to gain an understanding.
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  4. #4
    Registered User YUL's Avatar
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    in Canada it is. (recent supreme court ruling i think)
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  5. #5
    Mr. Gecko Kiknskreem's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 690 View Post
    But I hear people arguing that position.
    People are retarded.


    Originally Posted by 690 View Post
    I'm hoping someone here can help me understand that point of view, because I really don't. Generally, at the very least I understand where the person is coming from when I disagree with them - if not I make an effort to gain an understanding.
    Someone espousing that position (I would hope) is just trying to paint their argument with too broad brush.

    Obviously if someone is so intoxicated that they don't know wtf is going on, it would be wrong to have sex with them, but to posit that it is rape for my gf to initiate sex with me if I've had a few beers and smoked a joint is clearly... retarded.
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  6. #6
    Registered User 690's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by YUL View Post
    in Canada it is. (recent supreme court ruling i think)
    wtf Canada
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by 690 View Post
    drunk party girl who regrets her decision the next day
    Apparently I've raped a lot of women...
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  8. #8
    Pushing the fap frontier James086's Avatar
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    If a girl is very drunk and is therefore not fit to decide that having sex with you is not what she wanted then she got drunk enough that she is no longer responsible for her actions. By the same argument could you not get really drunk and then drive home, your defense being "I was too drunk to realise that driving was a bad idea."?
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  9. #9
    Registered User YUL's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 690 View Post
    wtf Canada
    .....Supreme Court rules unconscious woman can't give consent to sex

    In a 6-3 decision Friday, the court restored the sexual-assault conviction of a man who performed an unwanted sex act on his female partner in 2007

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/supreme-cou...135928262.html
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  10. #10
    Mr. Gecko Kiknskreem's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by YUL View Post
    .....Supreme Court rules unconscious woman can't give consent to sex
    Unconscious and intoxicated are very different things.
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  11. #11
    brb using logic mistaballoonhan's Avatar
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    Depends how intoxicated. If they can articulate that they wanna have sex, and take action toward such goal I'd say they're good. That's why you always get them to do some definitive participation before hand.

    If they can only lie down on the bed and babble drunkenly or pass out, and aren't able to consent I'd say that's about as rapey as it gets.
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  12. #12
    Registered User YUL's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiknskreem View Post
    Unconscious and intoxicated are very different things.
    yea its a thin line but who decides when?

    btw, this case was about a guy sticking a dildo up his wife's ass while she was passed out.

    "When she awoke, she found herself bound and being anally penetrated with a sex toy."

    they had apparently done the same thing before and she was ok with it
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  13. #13
    Mr. Gecko Kiknskreem's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by YUL View Post
    yea its a thin line but who decides when?
    I think its more than just a thin line between someone who takes two hits of a bowl and unconsciousness.
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  14. #14
    Banned Beeewbs's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 690 View Post
    This is something I have heard before but I didn't realize it was such a common position for people to hold. I personally don't agree with this, even if it is immoral to do so it falls short of what I would consider 'rape'. However in my quest to be open minded I was hoping someone here could clarify the position.

    As far as I can tell the thought process is something like this

    - rape = sex without consent
    - intoxicated people cannot give consent
    - therefore, sex with an intoxicated person = rape

    To me if you let the term rape cover everything from pulling a jogger into the bushes and assaulting her to a drunk party girl who regrets her decision the next day it really softens the term and is a disservice to people who have gone through the extreme trauma of rape.

    At what point is someone too intoxicated to give consent? What if both parties are intoxicated? What if a girl did give consent but then feels embarrassed the next day by her actions and claims she was taken advantage of? It seems too much of this is open to interpretation and some unfortunate people are going to get stuck with a rape charge when they really did nothing wrong.
    Rape is not always some violent act. There are different legal definitions of rape. Have you heard of statutory rape?

    I don't think it should be considered rape if both parties are drunk, but if someone is taking advantage of a drunk person, they're scum, and that seems like it should be considered rape. I mean, do you think that someone should be held to a contract that is signed while drunk?
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  15. #15
    Registered User StylesOfBeyond's Avatar
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    If you're both drunk, it's obviously total BS.

    If she's wasted and you're sober, prepare your anus because even if she doesn't accuse you of rape her friends sure as sh!t will.
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    This stupid bitch last summer tried to have sex with me while I was drunk. She was wasted too and I didn't want to **** her so I told her and pushed her off. Bitch didn't take no for an answer and pulled me back. I ****ed her for a couple of minutes and then pushed her off. Everyone was in the room to witness lol

    She then got pissed told her friends that I raped her or some **** lol...Shady bitches use it as an excuse so I think its all bull****. Just because she didn't want to admit to her friends that I didn't want to **** her.
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    IMO it should only be considered rape if the woman was drugged intentionally. For example, dropping something in a woman's drink and then engaging in coitus could be considered rape.
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    it sure feels like it doesnt it? Ha
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    it is a crazy world. If i brought a one night stand back I would honestly secretly videotape the encounter to protect myself. Of course when the footage was shown in court proving my innocence I'd probably get hit with some other felony charge...
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  20. #20
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    There was a case a year or two back when this exact scenario happened. The man said the woman consented to sex, even though she was drunk. She admitted she was drunk but said she didn't find the guy attractive and would not have consented ... although we all know what beer goggles do to you. IIRC he was acquitted.
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  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by 690 View Post
    This is something I have heard before but I didn't realize it was such a common position for people to hold. I personally don't agree with this, even if it is immoral to do so it falls short of what I would consider 'rape'. However in my quest to be open minded I was hoping someone here could clarify the position.

    As far as I can tell the thought process is something like this

    - rape = sex without consent
    - intoxicated people cannot give consent
    - therefore, sex with an intoxicated person = rape

    To me if you let the term rape cover everything from pulling a jogger into the bushes and assaulting her to a drunk party girl who regrets her decision the next day it really softens the term and is a disservice to people who have gone through the extreme trauma of rape.

    At what point is someone too intoxicated to give consent? What if both parties are intoxicated? What if a girl did give consent but then feels embarrassed the next day by her actions and claims she was taken advantage of? It seems too much of this is open to interpretation and some unfortunate people are going to get stuck with a rape charge when they really did nothing wrong.
    In your final paragraph you made it not rape, or a questionable one at best, and that changed what you're talking about. The typical drunk rape case is where a girl went with a guy(s) in good faith and then when she's knocked out they decide to ejaculate in whatever hole they can get to on her. How does that not sound like rape?

    In contrast, if the guy is dating the girl and she says yes while drunk, I don't see that as rape because the request makes sense, even if she's answering drunkenly. That's more of a mistake based on normal expectations. However, if the girl doesn't know the guy and she says yes then that's pretty shaky ground because some drunk people say yes to anything and a certain kind of guy could exploit that, but what he did was rape her.

    You need to stop saying "rape" in the same way your might "hotdog" because it has a lot more weight than that.
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    Registered User Queequeg's Avatar
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    if the women consents under the influence of alcohol then no

    if the women is to intoxicated to give consent i.e. loss of consciousness or speech then yes

    if the women is unable to significantly resist due to intoxication after not giving consent then yes
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    The language in my state is pretty much: You have committed rape when her lack of consent is clear.

    E.g. if she's passed out, she clearly isn't giving consent but as long as she's concious and not saying "no" "stop" or trying to get away, no rape is taking place.
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    Real answer: who cares?
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    Originally Posted by MrMisanthrope View Post
    Real answer: who cares?
    A dude looking at hard time?
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    yes and no.
    if you have a good lawyer and a witness you'll be alright.

    but basically, if you sleep with a girl while she's drunk.
    girl gets pissed at you later that week.
    she can go file rape charges and say she was drunk, and legally could not give consent.
    I learned this in college, one of the things we were told about in University 100. It was like welcome to college, here is how to not go to jail for rape.
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    Originally Posted by Queequeg View Post
    if the women consents under the influence of alcohol then no

    if the women is to intoxicated to give consent i.e. loss of consciousness or speech then yes

    if the women is unable to significantly resist due to intoxication after not giving consent then yes
    I'm hoping this is right, cause this makes the most sense.
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    Originally Posted by ZenBowman View Post
    IMO it should only be considered rape if the woman was drugged intentionally. For example, dropping something in a woman's drink and then engaging in coitus could be considered rape.
    /fcking thread
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    Witnesses:

    They're the big problem in this situation.

    The girl is going to be the one who says if she was capable of understanding the situation. Witnesses can provide some idea about how much she drank, what her motor functions were like, and so on, but will that be a complete picture for a jury? If the girl has character referrences and she's had like one boyfriend, then prepare your anus.

    Personally, I think girls at parties are dynamite if you don't know them.
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    Originally Posted by TheAdlerian View Post
    A dude looking at hard time?
    That's true, but you have to look at it this way: what's legal is not necessarily the same as what's "right," and what things "should" be is hard to define for a society with such low standards.

    In a world where exogenous substance abuse is a given and almost everyone seems to be a blockhead who's incapable of doing anything but working a job and buying hot food, who plugs himself into escapism via various media for hours in a day, and who knows nothing but what is handed down to him by perceived authority figures, who is to say what's "right?"

    In a land with a 50%+ divorce rate, how is sleeping with a drunk girl any worse than sleeping with a regular vapid party slut? To call one worse than the other is like saying that a road apple is worse than a lump of dog crap - both are still sh*t.

    The laws will do what they will, and I doubt they will make sense, because those who make laws tend to be corrupt and because this society doesn't make sense anyway.
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