Andreas Munzer death review/interviews. LONG read no cliffs

[Samsong]

After creating another thread bout heart issues and weight training I looked into the pro body andreas munzer who died in 1996 age 31.

interesting read if you can be assed -

In 1996, Andreas Munzer died at a hospital in Munich after being rushed there by his girlfriend. Apparently the two had just gotten off an airplane. Information from many different sources regarding the events surrounding Munzer's death, and as one might expect, there are some significant variations.
Munzer's girlfriend allegedly delivered a gym bag full of drugs to the hospital staff when she took him in, and after examining the bag's contents, the attending physician reportedly said, "It's the ORIMETEN that killed him." (ORIMETEN is a European version of CYTADREN, a cortisol blocker.)
No autopsy was performed.
They just opened up Munzer's gut, and saw massive internal bleeding and liver damage, and closed it again. Our sources said the coroner reported the cause of death as kidney, liver, and heart failure.
The European papers are blaming steroids, of course. And they're calling Munzer a "gross parody of his hero" (Schwarzenegger, that is). The tabloids can't seem to get past the steroid issue. But that does sell the papers. Albert Busek was called (a major bodybuilding promoter in Germany and Munzer's ex-employer) several times but he would not answer. He was finally sent a fax requesting any information, which might help, understand what happened to Munzer. No reply was ever received.
Interesting. Since Busek is so involved with bodybuilding, you would think he would want to talk with us and make sure we had the most accurate information. You don't think there might be a cover up in progress, do you?
Actually, a cover-up may make sense given Busek's situation.
In his place, what would you do?
He has a very strong affiliation with the IFBB, and the IFBB already has a black eye from Benaziza's death. The IFBB has been trying to make bodybuilding an Olympic sport for years, (HO! HO! HO!) And another European bodybuilder's death due to drug abuse wouldn't look good. Bodybuilders cannot be falling off the platform dead as they're about to accept their medals, can we?
Some of the people that were asked about Munzer-Troy Zuccolotto, Shawn Ray, and Lee Labrada actually knew Munzer as a fellow competitor. Ron Harris, from American Sports Network, and Joe Roark, an IFBB historian, knew him through their professional contacts and were able to give some details about Munzer's bodybuilding career. Others knew about his death and were interested professionals concerned about the health of all athletes Dan Duchaine; Bruce Nadler, M.D.; and Mauro DiPasquale, M.D. Another source of information came from people who sent faxes and e-mails with information they had regarding Munzer-Carl Smith a competitive Powerlifter from Graz, Austria (Andreas' and Arnold's birthplace), and Patrick Henseler, and another one from Switzerland.
But perhaps the most important source of information was a world-renowned strength coach. This person has asked that his identity be keep secret: he has much at stake and can't betray any of his confidential sources. The information he gave is critical in piecing together the story. He knew what really happened and continued conversing over several days.
Some excerpts of the conversations:
What do you know about the circumstances surrounding Andreas Munzer's death?
MR ANONYMOUS I heard he died at a hospital in Munich. He had competed the two weekends before, first in the Arnold and then in the San Jose. His girlfriend took him to the hospital once they realized something was wrong, but it was too late he died shortly after they arrived.
Do you know what the cause of death was?
MR ANONYMOUS- I heard it was Orimeten I have a source who spoke to the hospital staff and found out his girlfriend brought in a gym bag full of drugs and said he was on everything in it. Orimeten was one of the drugs in the bag supposedly; the attending doctor said he believed it was Orimeten that killed Munzer.
Orimeten is a European version of Cytadren, right?
MR ANONYMOUS- Yeah, it's just another name it's used as a cortisol blocker, and it inhibits the aromatization of androgens to estrogens.
What about steroids? Was there any mention of anabolic steroids from your sources?
MR ANONYMOUS- Yeah, I have a contact in Germany who is investigating Munzer's death and he said one report listed the cause of death as stomach' bleeding due to the abuse of anabolic steroids.
Was there an autopsy or any blood work done?
How would they know what killed him without some sort of medical proof?
MR ANONYMOUS- According to my sources they just opened him up did some poking around saw all the blood and closed his gut. No autopsy.
There are so many possible drug interactions?
MR ANONYMOUS- Yeah, that's true but Orimeten is what it was I've also heard they're trying to cover this up.

Who are "they"?
MR ANONYMOUS- The German speaking media also Busek, he doesn't want this to get out it looks really bad after Benaziza's death and all.
Busek was sent faxes and was called several times but never answered on the phone, and never responded to the faxes.
MR ANONYMOUS- He probably doesn't want to talk to anyone I know he's trying to cover this up. I have a contact that's on the German police force that's trying to get more information on the cause of death, but according to him, there was no autopsy.
It's impossible to definitively say that Cytadren caused Andreas Munzer's death. All we know there are a number of possible chemical interactions that can occur in a pro bodybuilder around competition time.
In Europe, autopsies may be optional.
According to some sources, unless there is a reason to suspect foul play, an autopsy would not necessarily be ordered. And according to several sources we have, no autopsy was performed on Munzer. Some reports (including the German press) list the cause of death as severe liver toxicity and subsequent failure, yet others say he was bleeding profusely from his liver, his blood ceased coagulating, and he bled to death. Even others report he was suffering from bleeding liver tumours, heart and/or kidney failure, or bleeding stomach walls. Perhaps one of the most bizarre reports came from one of our readers in Switzerland, Patrick Henseler, who wrote in an e-mail message:
"In the German-speaking media, they reported that Munzer died of heart, liver, and kidney failure...after he had been hospitalized with stomach bleeding the morning of the same day. The problem is that the media hypes it up. No, it's not the usual: 'Steroids will kill you we told you so.' It's actually much worse.
Munzer passed all drug tests was drug free. It was not the steroids that killed him but all the tablets and capsules he took to improve his physique.
Yes, they really suggest he was DRUG FREE! Scam!"

[Samsong]

THE MEDICAL EVIDENCE
Dr. Mauro DiPasquale- CORTISOL BLOCKERS drugs that inhibit cortisol are rumoured favourites of several professional bodybuilders. They use these drugs during the final weeks before a major competition as they reduce anabolic steroids to prevent the water retention often caused by heavy steroid usage. Most of these drugs work by actually INHIBITING THE SYNTHESIS OF CORTISOL IN THE BODY. This really is like removing the adrenal glands. Taking these drugs puts a user in an extremely risky situation should that person be exposed to inordinate stress. Death can easily result under such conditions. One such drug, AMINOGLUTETHIMIDE, is sold under the trade name Cytadren. The symptoms described by all our contacts have at least one thing in common they all indicate unrestrained upper G1 bleeding. This is a known side effect of Cytadren. In a conversation with Dan Duchaine, he stated that Cytadren could be linked to blood leakage he said it was his understanding that Munzer "bled to death from capillary leakage in the stomach." And another bodybuilding expert, Dr. Bruce Nadler said: "Cytadren causes bleeding ulcers but at the same time prevents you from FEELING any PAIN from them, perhaps because of the cortisol-blocking effect. The rapid rate of bleeding is more indicative of ESOPHAGEAL VARICES (varicose veins in the oesophagus) than ulcers. It appears that, he had chronic liver disease this could lead to cirrhosis and oesophageal varices. A cortisol blocker could cause erosion of these vessels leading to EXSANGUINATION (profuse bleeding due to internal or external haemorrhaging). A conversation about Andreas Munzer:
When you first published the information were you aware of bodybuilders having problems with Cytadren?
Dr D: No. I was aware of the potential for problems for a long time but I was not aware of any particular bodybuilder' having trouble. The reports are somewhat conflicting regarding the cause of Munzer's' death, bleeding liver tumours, ruptured oesophageal varices, bleeding stomach capillaries all the reports point to upper GI bleeding what do you know?
Dr D: I've heard similar reports hepatic damage and different kinds of bleeding.
From all the sources it appears no autopsy was performed is that common?
Dr D: No, there should have been an autopsy, but I don't know if there was one. If this had happened in North America, an autopsy would have been mandatory. I don't know about laws in Europe. Unless the family was very adamant about it, I would think there would be one. Could Cytadren have caused his death?


Dr D: Maybe, maybe not. But it would have exacerbated any type of bleeding he did have. Let's say you had gastric bleeding. Your body would muster its defences so it could contain the bleeding as much as possible and decrease the shock effects until you were able to get some sort of help. When you're taking Cytadren, you have no reserves. So any bleeding, even minor, can be catastrophic. You cannot muster the defences to deal with any shock situations-even a minor shock. So, Cytadren wouldn't have caused the initial bleeding, but it would have kept his body from being able to fight it off?
Dr D: Exactly. In other words, you would go into shock very quickly. Whereas with a normal defence, a normal adrenal response, you would more than likely be able to handle it until you got help.
He may not have known he had any problems because Cytadren could have masked any pain he may have had?
Dr D: Yes, that's possible. It may keep you from reacting to any kind of situation that has traumatic potential to the body. Even with all the conflicting reports of problems he may have had, all the problems appear to be pretty serious GI issues. How long would it have taken for him to die from any of this it seems with those kinds of problems, he should have known would it take hours, _ minutes, what?
Dr D: Yes, I've heard these problems were present as well, depending on the degree of bleeding, because of the Cytadren, it could happen in minutes. Usually, it would take much longer than that.
People can have gastric bleeding for several days, and if it keeps bleeding, you bring them in, transfuse them, and fix the problem. But they're usually able to cope using their own mechanisms, realize there's something wrong, and get help. But in Munzer's case, he probably didn't have time. He may have sensed there was a problem, but it wouldn't have been something he was alarmed about to any great extent.
By the time he was alarmed, it was too late.
Are there any drug interactions that would have been particularly harmful with Cytadren, we don't have any report telling us what all Munzer may have been taking, but is there anything that would have been worse for him than something else, given the Cytadren?
Dr D: There's probably a potentiating effect with anabolic steroids and cortisol blockers to some extent because they (anabolic steroids) can also occupy the corticoreceptors. But I don't think there are any studies that show one worse than another. There really hasn't been any research done to look at the degree of receptor blocking with individual anabolic steroids.
So basically Cytadren probably did not cause the initial bleeding that led to Munzer's death, but it would have kept his body from being able to fight off any other bleeding problems he had?
Dr D: Yes, I wouldn't think Cytadren would have caused the original problem it could have been a lot of other compounds the "polypharmacy" that athletes are into is appalling it's very difficult to say because there are so many possible interactions. In fact, there are so many synergistic effects possible on so many body parameters, so it's hard to tell what's doing what anymore. He may have been taking something as simple as aspirin that started the GI bleeding. If it were on going and didn't have a chance to heal, it could have become, major bleeding. This polypharmacy is really very scary. Dr D.

[Samsong]

possible cycle stack -

This is the last cycle that Andreas Munzer took before he died:

Weeks 1-10
ephedrine
aspirin
clenbuterol
valium
captagon-- scheduled 1 drug in the US, meaning no legitimate medical use-- it is an amphetamine-type stimulant--
cytomel

Weeks 1-5
500mg daily of test enanthate
152mg daily of parabolan
150mg daily of dianabol
150mg daily of halotestin
20 IU daily of HGH
20 IU daily of Insulin

Weeks 6-8
300mg daily of masteron
152mg daily of parabolan
250mg daily of winstrol tabs
150mg daily of halotestin
50mg daily of winstrol inj
24 IU daily of HGH

Weeks 9-10
200mg daily of masteron
100mg daily of winny inj
200mg daily of halotestin
400mg daily of winny tabs
24 IU daily of HGH
Insulin daily
IGF-1 daily

Days 1-3 leading up to show
aldactone, lasix



Cytadren abuse was a theory, but no autopsy was ever performed. This was a new release on his death:

March 1996 Munzer dies at 31.

After departing from a flight that took him from the US back to Germany, popular pro Andreas Munzer went into severe physical distress and died later at a local hospital from almost complete and total organ failure.

Some preliminary reports alleged that Munzer, a known steroid abuser, was taking a drug to thicken his blood (EPO - Erythropietin) in order to appear more vascular on the posing stage. Like blood doping, EPO promotes supercompensation of glycogen in the muscles. Cosmetically this is appealing to bodybuilders because they can appear as full as possible.

[F23]

The guy probably died because of hypoglycemia (the cortisol blockers) or hypokalemia (diuretics used for competition). Being sliced has a price.

[Samsong]

The guy probably died because of hypoglycemia (the cortisol blockers) or hypokalemia (diuretics used for competition). Being sliced has a price.

crazy shiit at what pros are willing to take! you gotta wonder is it worth it ?

[F23]

crazy shiit at what pros are willing to take! you gotta wonder is it worth it ?

Best looking corpse in the morgue, bro!

[vazquez]

rip... what do you think he died of? rip munzer

by looking at that stack i'm sure he didn't die of natural causes.

[darkninja67]

Lasix eh???
Mohammed Benaziza died from abusing Lasix IIRC.

[Samsong]

rip... what do you think he died of? rip munzer

by looking at that stack i'm sure he didn't die of natural causes.

not sure if srs ?

of course it wasn't natural

[vasodilation]

autopsy report + pictures are out there on the web if you are interested.

[clatted90]

ALL THAT BULL$HIT, JUST TO BE BIG

jeeeeze

i'll stick to my prohormone

[Samsong]

autopsy report + pictures are out there on the web if you are interested.

I looked but couldnt find, please post and ill rep

[vasodilation]

I looked but couldnt find, please post and ill rep

Yeah i cant find it atm, it's in german and is a pdf file, was posted on the misc but the thread was deleted due to AAS talk

[Samsong]

really curious to see this if anyone can find any pics please post and i will rep - i know its not much

[vasodilation]

really curious to see this if anyone can find any pics please post and i will rep - i know its not much

I got the original link from http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/BigNatural/, so you can try pm him for it

[Agentdark45]

That "stack" is B.S btw.

[Morrissey889]

In B4 people say it wasn't the steroids that killed him.

Too late.

[vasodilation]

That "stack" is B.S btw.

Read the autopsy if you can get your hands on it.

[hashish]

i dunno sh!t about jooce....

but fkin 150mg of dbs a day??? WOW

[Agentdark45]

Read the autopsy if you can get your hands on it.

Yes because you can speculate someone's (ludicrous) celltech cycle from performing an autopsy...

[vasodilation]

Yes because you can speculate someone's (ludicrous) celltech cycle from performing an autopsy...

toxicology report...

[Agentdark45]

toxicology report...

brb toxicology report pinpointing exact celltech doses down to individual weeks of use.
brb toxicology report picking up slin & GH.

[Samsong]

brb toxicology report pinpointing exact celltech doses down to individual weeks of use.
brb toxicology report picking up slin & GH.

i said possible stack, although that stack is apparently confirmed from several different sources

[bangwhosnext]

Andreas Munzer Death



"After months of stomach pain, Münzer was admitted to hospital on the morning of March 12. By 7pm, doctors had decided to operate to stop bleeding from his stomach, but shortly afterwards his liver and then kidneys failed. His condition by this point was too severe for a blood transfusion—he died on the morning of March 14, aged 31.[1][2]
The autopsy gave the cause of death as dystrophic multiple-organ-failure.[3] Some of the specific autopsy findings:[3]

An extremely muscular physique, with an almost complete absence of subcutaneous fat

Affecting the liver were numerous table-tennis-ball-sized tumors, typical for doping; half the liver consisted simply of a crumbly mass, similar to polystyrene (Styrofoam)

Diminutive testes

Cardiac hypertrophy (Münzer's heart weighed 636g; a normal man's heart usually weighs 300–350g)

Münzer's electrolytes were also completely out of balance, and his potassium levels were extremely high. Traces of about twenty different drugs were found, along with acute toxicity (perhaps caused by a stimulant)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_M%C3%BCnzer

[dickyoliver]

jeeez

[Flognuts]

^^^^he looks gone in the face^^^^

crazy the amount of stuff pro's(and other bodybuilders) are willing to put in the body's these days.

wish the 60's and 70's would come back where it was just mostly test and dbol.

[eskyhoneybeev2]

crazy shiit at what pros are willing to take! you gotta wonder is it worth it ?

of course its not fkin worth it

[Samsong]

of course its not fkin worth it

to you and me maybe, but ask cutler or coleman and they will tell you diff - its your own perspective of things.

Imo its def not worth and i find it stupid to risk your life to pose on a stage.

[eskyhoneybeev2]

to you and me maybe, but ask cutler or coleman and they will tell you diff - its your own perspective of things.

Imo its def not worth and i find it stupid to risk your life to pose on a stage.

as much as i like working out and seeing my physique improve, i do think the whole professional Bodybuilding scene is dirty and classless as fuk, sh!t aint a sport its a circus

[Samsong]

another reason why i think steroids are pointless;

Paul Dillet arguably had huge potential to be one of the best body-builders of all time.

Look at the size him;



Afterall the steroids and over stuff he put himself through, now look at the size of him



you have to ask yourself was it really worth it ?

stay natural !