INBF Mr America 5-21-11

[baloo99]

I competed in the INBF Mr. America contest last night and figured I'd share a video a friend of mind grabbed. This year, I know the INBF instituted new judging criteria in terms of three different rounds (proportion, muscularity and mass), each made up of specific poses. Some poses I would have expected from other federations were not called for (calves, serratus etc), while others were called for in multiple rounds. I'm really neither here nor there in terms of the criteria, I guess, (I just hope it's actually adhered to in terms of what the actual name of each round implies -lol)

I'm curious what more experienced INBF competitors think regarding the new three round approach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WywxBfZ6zn8

S

[baloo99]

Oh yeah, because a few people asked... I'm the first guy out (competitor #1) on the left. I got second place in this lineup. Competitor #3 (third guy out) was declared the winner.

S

[Cytrainer913]

Hey Rich,


How this new show go? Results?

[wnbfwarriorpro]

Hey Rich,


How this new show go? Results?

2011 INBF Mr. America results.
Bantam

1st Brice Yves


Lightweight

1st Jermain Edwards

2nd Robert Mason

3rd John Navarro

Middleweight

1st Rawle Green-Overall Winner WNBF Pro Card

2nd Stu Yellin

3rd Omar Carter

4th Pete Floris


Lightheavy weight

1st William Neco-WNBF Pro Masters Card

2nd John Salierno


Heavyweight

1st Norman Rial

2nd Chuck Kohout

3rd Tomme Coleman


over 40

1st William Neco

2nd Pete Floris

3rd Tomme Coleman


over 50

1st Butch Paradis

2nd Tomme Coleman


over 60

1st Tomme Coleman

2nd Lou Mirro

over 70

1st Lou Mirro


Novice

1st Rey Ramos

2nd Binaya Shakya

3rd Chris Shea

Teenage

1st Ryan Lee



Best Body

1st Tatyana Redko

2nd Tamara Brod

3rd Jill Fiorillo

Ms Fit Body

1st Tina Peratino-WNBF Pro Card

2nd Ava Diamond

3rd Rebecca Jefferson

4th Benetta Taylor

Open Figure

1st Glory Billman-WNBF Pro Card

2nd Tina Peratino

3rd Ava Diamond

4th Jill Fiorillo

5th Barbara Ziemrowski

6th Benetta Taylor

7th Rebecca Jefferson

Master Figure

1st Ava Diamond

2nd Jill Fiorillo

3rd Barbara Ziemrowski

4th Benetta Taylor

Lightweight

1st Cynthia Mustaffa

Heavyweight

1st Julie Sleight

Master

1st Julie Sleight

[mrusa85]

Why would there be a novice division in a show with a title like Mr. America? Sounds like a big national title and then you've got the novices too? Doesn't make sense. Cheapens the title.

[mrusa85]

And it never makes sense to allow older masters to enter all the age category divisions either.

[wnbfwarriorpro]

And it never makes sense to allow older masters to enter all the age category divisions either.

My own feelings are similar, because I feel it becomes a trophy hunt. However, almost every organization allows it, so I guess we are in the minority.

[wnbfwarriorpro]

Why would there be a novice division in a show with a title like Mr. America? Sounds like a big national title and then you've got the novices too? Doesn't make sense. Cheapens the title.

This was the first year the Mr. America was contested in the INBF. I'm sure that as the show grows, the novice will be eliminated or renamed, as the Jr. Mr America used to be.

[Cytrainer913]

Rich,
There wasn't a pro show with this?

[wnbfwarriorpro]

Rich,
There wasn't a pro show with this?

No. The Universe will be held with the Mania in Sept.

[mrusa85]

This was the first year the Mr. America was contested in the INBF. I'm sure that as the show grows, the novice will be eliminated or renamed, as the Jr. Mr America used to be.

Sounds like a plan.

[rich55]

Oh yeah, because a few people asked... I'm the first guy out (competitor #1) on the left. I got second place in this lineup. Competitor #3 (third guy out) was declared the winner.

S

Nice work! It looks like it was a close one of different shapes. That is always tough! From what I've seen, the Bantam and Lightweight winners from the Buckeye Classic looked real good too. Brice and Jermain.

The 3 rounds definitely make the process of judging easier to have the specific criteria delineated into separate rounds. The Front Double, Side Tri, Back Lat Spread and Most Muscular definitely are good indicators of mass. All shots I'm working to improve as a competitor.

[baloo99]

Nice work! It looks like it was a close one of different shapes. That is always tough! From what I've seen, the Bantam and Lightweight winners from the Buckeye Classic looked real good too. Brice and Jermain.

The 3 rounds definitely make the process of judging easier to have the specific criteria delineated into separate rounds. The Front Double, Side Tri, Back Lat Spread and Most Muscular definitely are good indicators of mass. All shots I'm working to improve as a competitor.

Yeah, Brice definitely looked great! I don't know about it being 'close' and 'different shapes' though. It was a Middleweight class and two of the guys were built like Basketball players. Still, we all know you can never publicly disagree with contest judging, not if you ever want to compete again -lol. I didn't get to see Jermaine, but I've been in the audience at enough shows to know that the lightweight guys are usually the most dangerous onstage!

I personally don't mind the new breakdown of rounds though, but having only competed in a different federation, I guess I didn't realize how many shots wouldn't be asked for, again, not a bad thing, just ruminating aloud, and curious how more seasoned INBFers felt

S

[wnbfwarriorpro]

Yeah, Brice definitely looked great! I don't know about it being 'close' and 'different shapes' though. It was a Middleweight class and two of the guys were built like Basketball players. Still, we all know you can never publicly disagree with contest judging, not if you ever want to compete again -lol. I didn't get to see Jermaine, but I've been in the audience at enough shows to know that the lightweight guys are usually the most dangerous onstage!

I personally don't mind the new breakdown of rounds though, but having only competed in a different federation, I guess I didn't realize how many shots wouldn't be asked for, again, not a bad thing, just ruminating aloud, and curious how more seasoned INBFers felt

S

Stu,
I can assure you nothing gets held against you for speaking your mind. As I have said on NBBR, I respect alot of athletes that have been critical of us in the past and don't take things personally. The most important things to me are the credibility of the WNBF/INBF – which means legitimate drug-testing, fair judging and honesty from both the federation and its athletes. I can't fix things if nobody tells me they are broken, but I also have to consider whether it is truly broken. In all my years, I have never heard of an INBF or WNBF athlete being held back in a show due to critical remarks and it will NEVER happen as long as I am Chairman.

Not being at the show, I can't give you an honest assessment of your placement. It wouldn't be fair to you, your fellow athletes or the judges. In the past, I have not always agreed with contest placements, either as an athlete, a judge or as the MC, but I have to respect the opinions of the other judges on the panel. I would contact some of the judges and ask them for their thoughts and see if that can shed some light on things.

As far as the mass round being added, at the end of last year, almost everyone (promoters, athletes and outside commentary) felt it was a success. In the past, just having a muscularity round turned bodybuilding shows into dieting contests and the best representation of a bodybuilder did not always win. This doesn't mean that there will not be disagreements between judges, athletes or fans – its the nature of the sport – but I think a great example of how well this system worked was at last year's Worlds.

There is a thread from last year explaining the logic behind it and why it was done:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=120715141

I hope this helps and I look forward to seeing you on stage this season.

[baloo99]

Thanks for the response Rich, always a class act!

I'm certainly not the type to badmouth ANY competitors, it's unsportsmanlike, and to be frank, everyone shows up hoping to improve on previous showings, do their best, and in a best case scenario win their class or even an overall title. The judges' decision is not due to anything the athlete's have done (I have to believe this, no matter what a competitor's background in another sport may be or how many articles have publicized their competition plans, or else I would never step onstage again). Everyone was friendly and supportive backstage, and again, I will not say or harbor any negative feelings towards anyone, that is not who I am, and it does nothing to better the sport or myself. My only concern was with the actual definitions of what the judges are supposed to look for. Charlie emailed me the exact description, and to be honest, after finding out how some judges voted, I would be hard pressed to make a case that they even read it.

JUDGING ROUNDS (3):

ROUND 1 - SYMMETRY- Symmetry encompasses overall conditioning from top to
bottom.

ROUND 2 - OVERALL MASS - In this round bodybuilders will be judged on fat-free
muscle mass, not by overall conditioning. Athletes will execute four poses in
this round

ROUND 3 - MUSCULARITY/CONDITIONING - Athletes will be judged on conditioning by
executing a series of mandatory poses. Competitor must hit all the mandatory
poses in a timely manner

Now, TO ME, Round 1 (SYMMETRY)would mean that the winning bodybuilder would have comparable levels of muscular size and definition in their torso and their legs. (I know in the other Federation I've competed in, the Judging rule book specifically instructs to hold it against competitors who are "unbalanced".) I guess this is where people talk about achieving the ideal 'X-Frame' effect, and not looking like either a letter 'Y', or even an upside down 'Y'. Ideally, wider shoulders than hips, wider quads than hips, upper and lower leg development... you know, actually looking 'symmetrical' (I'm an Art Teacher, so this is a word I know well -lol)

Round 2 (MASS) again, to ME this sounds like it would reward how much muscle an athlete carries on their frame. Considering that the video I shared contains all middleweight competitors (160 - 175 lbs) you would think it's a simple decision at first glance. In my opinion, this should be the easiest round, as anyone new to training can usually be shown a video or pic and asked 'who has more muscle?', and you'd most likely get an answer fairly quickly.

Round 3 (MUSCULARITY) sounds like we're addressing the actual 'Quality' of the overall physique, conditioned mass as it were. As this round goes through all the mandatory poses, weaknesses in various areas (proportion, size, posing ability to some degree I would assume) become apparent. Flawed and/or underdeveloped muscles groups would not be able to be concealed, and one would imagine, such issues, or even appearing to be completely devoid or well sub-par of any development in certain bodyparts, would count against the athlete when held against the rest of the class.


Rich, I've been beaten by some truly amazing bodybuilders since I've been competing and I will be the first to tell you that I am DAMN PROUD of those losses because I earned them, and they made me push myself to improve. On the other hand, I've also beaten some competitors who made me sweat bullets and fight tooth and nail to pull out a win (in class decisions as well as a few overalls). My future goals do involve the INBF, so keep in mind that this is not a complaint at all against the federation, but this has to have been the weakest class I have ever competed in. That is the sole reason for my feeling a bit disparaged after this event.

Now... if you'll excuse me please while I go get bigger and more conditioned, I have my next INBF show in 4.5 weeks and there's work to do. I made a promise to my girlfriend that I'd be the biggest, hardest mofo in my class -lol

S

[wnbfwarriorpro]

Thanks for the response Rich, always a class act!

I'm certainly not the type to badmouth ANY competitors, it's unsportsmanlike, and to be frank, everyone shows up hoping to improve on previous showings, do their best, and in a best case scenario win their class or even an overall title. The judges' decision is not due to anything the athlete's have done (I have to believe this, no matter what a competitor's background in another sport may be or how many articles have publicized their competition plans, or else I would never step onstage again). Everyone was friendly and supportive backstage, and again, I will not say or harbor any negative feelings towards anyone, that is not who I am, and it does nothing to better the sport or myself. My only concern was with the actual definitions of what the judges are supposed to look for. Charlie emailed me the exact description, and to be honest, after finding out how some judges voted, I would be hard pressed to make a case that they even read it.

JUDGING ROUNDS (3):

ROUND 1 - SYMMETRY- Symmetry encompasses overall conditioning from top to
bottom.

ROUND 2 - OVERALL MASS - In this round bodybuilders will be judged on fat-free
muscle mass, not by overall conditioning. Athletes will execute four poses in
this round

ROUND 3 - MUSCULARITY/CONDITIONING - Athletes will be judged on conditioning by
executing a series of mandatory poses. Competitor must hit all the mandatory
poses in a timely manner

Now, TO ME, Round 1 (SYMMETRY)would mean that the winning bodybuilder would have comparable levels of muscular size and definition in their torso and their legs. (I know in the other Federation I've competed in, the Judging rule book specifically instructs to hold it against competitors who are "unbalanced".) I guess this is where people talk about achieving the ideal 'X-Frame' effect, and not looking like either a letter 'Y', or even an upside down 'Y'. Ideally, wider shoulders than hips, wider quads than hips, upper and lower leg development... you know, actually looking 'symmetrical' (I'm an Art Teacher, so this is a word I know well -lol)

Round 2 (MASS) again, to ME this sounds like it would reward how much muscle an athlete carries on their frame. Considering that the video I shared contains all middleweight competitors (160 - 175 lbs) you would think it's a simple decision at first glance. In my opinion, this should be the easiest round, as anyone new to training can usually be shown a video or pic and asked 'who has more muscle?', and you'd most likely get an answer fairly quickly.

Round 3 (MUSCULARITY) sounds like we're addressing the actual 'Quality' of the overall physique, conditioned mass as it were. As this round goes through all the mandatory poses, weaknesses in various areas (proportion, size, posing ability to some degree I would assume) become apparent. Flawed and/or underdeveloped muscles groups would not be able to be concealed, and one would imagine, such issues, or even appearing to be completely devoid or well sub-par of any development in certain bodyparts, would count against the athlete when held against the rest of the class.


Rich, I've been beaten by some truly amazing bodybuilders since I've been competing and I will be the first to tell you that I am DAMN PROUD of those losses because I earned them, and they made me push myself to improve. On the other hand, I've also beaten some competitors who made me sweat bullets and fight tooth and nail to pull out a win (in class decisions as well as a few overalls). My future goals do involve the INBF, so keep in mind that this is not a complaint at all against the federation, but this has to have been the weakest class I have ever competed in. That is the sole reason for my feeling a bit disparaged after this event.

Now... if you'll excuse me please while I go get bigger and more conditioned, I have my next INBF show in 4.5 weeks and there's work to do. I made a promise to my girlfriend that I'd be the biggest, hardest mofo in my class -lol

S

Always a great attitude, Stu. Come back with a vengeance and remove all doubts.

The three rounds should read this way:

ROUND 1 - SYMMETRY- Symmetry encompasses overall balance and proportion from top to
bottom, side to side and front to back.

ROUND 2 - OVERALL MASS - In this round bodybuilders will be judged on fat-free
muscle mass, not by overall conditioning. Athletes will execute four poses in
this round

ROUND 3 - MUSCULARITY/CONDITIONING - Athletes will be judged on conditioning by
executing a series of mandatory poses. Competitor must hit all the mandatory
poses in a timely manner

In order to get the best representation of a bodybuilder, all three categories need to be weighed. Ideally, you want the best combination of all three. The biggest guy shouldn't win, nor the most aesthetic, nor the most defined. Its the total package.
Train hard and I will see you at the Hercules!

[Thad310]

Video makes it tought to see conditioning BUT from what you can see, symmetry and mass you were the winner. It could be my opinion but I hate it when the winner is lacking in the lower body. I also know that a loss can fuel you much more than a win, so go get it!

-T

[baloo99]

Video makes it tought to see conditioning BUT from what you can see, symmetry and mass you were the winner. It could be my opinion but I hate it when the winner is lacking in the lower body. I also know that a loss can fuel you much more than a win, so go get it!

-T

Thanks Thad, definitely appreciate the feedback from from a WNBF pro. I did get to hear very positive comments from Charlie as well as one of the Judges who had me in 1st (I was told by the promoter that I lost by a single point). Guess this is just part of the game, as in any sport.

Here's a link with better image quality, I didn't realize how compressed the quality was when I output the video for youtube. It's funny, but I was looking at this show as a sort of 'warmup' for another INBF show 4 weeks from now, and was expecting much more in the way of competition. Guess that's why it didn't sit well with me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNYZw_fjr2I

S

[XManPaul]

Stu,
I can assure you nothing gets held against you for speaking your mind. As I have said on NBBR, I respect alot of athletes that have been critical of us in the past and don't take things personally. The most important things to me are the credibility of the WNBF/INBF – which means legitimate drug-testing, fair judging and honesty from both the federation and its athletes. I can't fix things if nobody tells me they are broken, but I also have to consider whether it is truly broken. In all my years, I have never heard of an INBF or WNBF athlete being held back in a show due to critical remarks and it will NEVER happen as long as I am Chairman.

Not being at the show, I can't give you an honest assessment of your placement. It wouldn't be fair to you, your fellow athletes or the judges. In the past, I have not always agreed with contest placements, either as an athlete, a judge or as the MC, but I have to respect the opinions of the other judges on the panel. I would contact some of the judges and ask them for their thoughts and see if that can shed some light on things.

As far as the mass round being added, at the end of last year, almost everyone (promoters, athletes and outside commentary) felt it was a success. In the past, just having a muscularity round turned bodybuilding shows into dieting contests and the best representation of a bodybuilder did not always win. This doesn't mean that there will not be disagreements between judges, athletes or fans – its the nature of the sport – but I think a great example of how well this system worked was at last year's Worlds.

There is a thread from last year explaining the logic behind it and why it was done:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=120715141

I hope this helps and I look forward to seeing you on stage this season.

That was the BEST response that you would want out of the "Chairman" of the INBF/WNBF and athlete's rep. Rich that was very respectable for you to say and you truly are one of the "reasons" for guys like us to stay with the Organization. I am proud to say that you one of the "main faces" of the INBF/WNBF Organizations and Chelo publications!! And Great Editorial in the newest mag by the way!!