How should i go about bulking but lowering BF at the same time?

[Ditzzy]

Hey guys

So i have joined this forum looking for advise, i have been attempting to bulk for about a month now, i have seen some weight gain and muscle gain but now i would like to continue bulking but cut my body fat, how should i go about this?

At the moment i am eating about 5 meals a day breakfast consisting of oats, banana and a coffee and my 3 meals throughout the day consist of rice and chicken and then dinner usually chicken or whatever gets put on my plate. Should i just up my cardio? or cut carbs? i am really not sure how i should go about this.

Thanks!
Ditzzy

[Connor1226]

You can't go about it.
You cannot lose body fat and gain muscle mass at the same time. Bulking requires excess calories and cutting requires a deficit. Two completely opposite goals and methods to achieve them.

Find out which goal is more important, and go with that one.
If you are concerned about gaining body fat on a bulk, then do a lean bulk. I'm not sure why guys want to pack on pounds of body fat with their muscle. It just makes leaning down much more difficult and it makes it take longer. You don't need to pack of fat to build muscle effectively.

[Mrpb]

What you're aiming for is called recomposition.

What height, weight and body fat percentage are you?

How long have you been lifting weights? What program do you follow?

Can you upload a picture?

You can't go about it.
You cannot lose body fat and gain muscle mass at the same time.

No. It's possible. See here: Advanced athletes gained 2% lean body mass in a ~500 calorie deficit.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571

[Ditzzy]

Ok well two completely different answers here ahaha, i cannot upload a picture at this moment in time i will try later but here:
Height: 6ft 3
weight: 180.6 pounds
BF: not too sure i had a caliper measurement that came to like 15% but that was a little while ago.

I have been lifting for about 5 months now my diet has been all over the place, i don't really follow a specific program my split is pretty much hit each muscle group twice a week.

Edit: If there was the more important goal then it would be leaning out, if so what would the best way go about doing that?

Thanks
Ditzzy

[Connor1226]

What you're aiming for is called recomposition.

What height, weight and body fat percentage are you?

How long have you been lifting weights? What program do you follow?

Can you upload a picture?



No. It's possible. See here: Advanced athletes gained 2% lean body mass in a ~500 calorie deficit.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571

Yes, it is possible, for beginners and people who are considered "over fat". However for a vast majority of people, it is a wasted effort. (By that I mean, most people who ask really aren't fat enough)
It would be much easier to do them separately.

The OP is 15% body fat, so he's probably better off cutting first if that is the main goal, then doing a lean bulk.

[adamlee9]

But who was tren

[Mrpb]

For best results you will need to follow a program with scheduled progressive overload. Have a look at AllPro, Starting Strength, Stronglifts etc. I recommend Allpro.

If you want to lean out while still be able to gain muscle I'd go with a small calorie deficit. ~250 calories and eat 1 gram protein per lb. This way you should be losing ~2 pounds per month. Follow the lifting program and you will make progress.

I'm not sure though that at 6 ft 3 180 pounds a slight cut is the best option for your progress. Only if dropping body fat is really important you should cut.

This thread has info about losing fat while gaining muscle, especially posts by Sumdumgoi and Archangel.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...1018531&page=1

[Mrpb]

Yes, it is possible, for beginners and people who are considered "over fat".

Did you notice that the advanced athletes in that study were neither beginners nor "over fat" ?

Yet they managed to gain 1% of LBM per month on a deficit. 1% lean body mass per month is not a little, and it was measured with DEXA scans.

[WhiteRus]

bulking = increase LBM
cutting = shredding fat, trying to keep LBM
result = more LBM with less fat %

Can you do both in the same time? Def not possible

[Ditzzy]

Ok so, i think i should just start with cutting then, does anyone recommend any diets that i should follow? just low carb high protein or?

[Mrpb]

Can you do both in the same time? Def not possible

Please read here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571

And here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...1018531&page=1

[Mrpb]

Ok so, i think i should just start with cutting then, does anyone recommend any diets that i should follow? just low carb high protein or?

Wonderpug explains it well:

Two suggestions: learn the basics about lifting and learn the basics about nutrition.

To learn the basics about lifting, please see the exercise programs stickies and select a proven 5x5 program.

To start learning the basics about nutrition, please read the relevant stickies at the top of the nutrition forum as well as this:

COMPOSING A RATIONAL DIET

Advice on diet and nutrition is often based on myths and, even more so, on the marketing message of supplement companies and self-proclaimed diet gurus with agendas contrary to your interests. Please don't allow yourself, your health, your fitness goals or your wallet to be compromised by the prevalent misinformation. Learn the basics of nutrition and start engaging in healthy, rational dietary habits that can last a lifetime.

The first step is to discard biased advice on nutrition and diet, and, in its place, embrace simple logic:

Compose a diet that ensures micronutrient and macronutrient sufficiency, derived predominantly from whole and minimally processed foods if possible, with remaining caloric intake being largely discretionary within the bounds of common sense.

Caloric Intake

Energy balance is the primary dietary driver of body weight and it also impacts body composition. A chronic surplus of calories will result in increased body weight and a chronic deficit of calories will result in a loss of body weight.

In other words, in order to gain about one pound of tissue weight (as opposed to transient flux in water weight), you need to consume a total of about 3,500 calories more than you expend. And to lose about one pound of tissue weight, you have to do the opposite -- consume about 3,500 calories less than you expend.

Thus, the first step in constructing any rational diet is to get a sense of how many calories per day, on average, you should consume in order to progress towards your goals.

The average number of calories you expend per day -- called total daily energy expenditure (TDEE) -- is a function of your basal metabolic rate (BMR) and your average weekly activity level.

To estimate your BMR, it's important to have a sense of how much lean body mass (LBM) you carry. If you're not sure, post a photo or two and we can estimate your percentage body fat and, from this number and your total body weight, it's easy to estimate LBM by using the following formula:

LBM = body weight * (1 - percentage body fat)

To estimate BMR, use the the Katch-McArdle formula:

BMR = 370 + (9.8 * LBM in pounds)
or
BMR = 370 + (21.6 * LBM in kg)

The next step is to estimate average weekly activity using the following guidelines to calculate an activity factor (AF):

• 1.1 - 1.2 = Sedentary (desk job, and little formal exercise, this will be most of you students)

• 1.3 - 1.4 = Lightly Active (light daily activity and light exercise 1-3 days a week)

• 1.5 - 1.6 = Moderately Active (moderately daily Activity & moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)

• 1.7 - 1.8 = Very Active (physically demanding lifestyle & hard exercise 6-7 days a week)

• 1.9 - 2.2 = Extremely Active (athletes in endurance training or very hard physical job)

To estimate TDEE (the calories at which you will neither gain nor lose tissue weight), use the following formula:

TDEE = BMR * AF

Now that you've estimated your TDEE, it's important to refine that estimate empirically. To do so, consume an average amount of calories equal to estimated TDEE for two weeks, monitoring weight change. The results will confirm your actual TDEE.

Once you know your actually TDEE, set your caloric intake to match your goals as follows:

To maintain weight, consume an amount of calories equal to TDEE.
To lose weight, consume 10% to 20% less than TDEE.
To gain weight, consume 10% 20 20% more than TDEE.

Monitor weight change via the scale and also body composition via the mirror and how clothing fits, making adjustments as needed biweekly.


Macronutrient Intake

Ensure that your intake of macronutrients meets sufficiency (as defined below), with remaining macronutrient composition of the diet being largely a function of personal preference.

Ideally, ensure macronutrient sufficiency predominantly or, ideally, entirely from whole and minimally processed foods.

Protein: ~0.6 to ~0.8 grams per pound of bodyweight (or target/ideal weight in the obese) -- the highest amount justified by research.

Fat: ~0.45 grams per pound of bodyweight (or target/ideal weight in the obese) -- the lowest amount implied by clinical observation.

Remaining caloric budget: whatever mix of macronutrients you prefer -- as implied by research.

Micronutrient Intake

Take care and use good judgement in food selection and portioning to ensure that micronutrient sufficiency is reached without excessive intake from dietary sources and/or supplements.

As with macronutrient sufficiency, one should ensure micronutrient sufficiency predominantly or, ideally, entirely from whole and minimally processed foods.

To get a good sense of recommended intake of vitamins and minerals, please review this USDA guidelines webpage.

You'll find the following information particularly helpful:

Intakes: Recommended Intakes for Individuals

RDA and Adequate Intake for Vitamins and Elements

Upper Limit for Vitamins and Elements

Electrolytes and Water

Meal Timing, Composition & Frequency

The number of meals you consume, the timing of those meals and the macro/micronutrient composition of each meal is largely a function of personal preference.

While it might be "optimal" to consume more than one meal per day and less than 5 meals per day, the simple truth is that any difference that directly results from such fine tuning is likely too small to notice even after years of training.

Thus, base your meal timing, composition and frequency on your subjective preference such as to optimize your sense of energy, performance, satiety, palatability, convenience, social/business life and sustainability.

Do not hesitate to very all three factors from day to day as circumstance dictates. In other words, do not become a slave to routine, with inflexibility compromising your quality of life.


Pre & Post Workout Nutrition

What (if anything) you consume before and after your workout does not play a significant direct role in the outcome of your diet, beyond personal preference.

Why? Because what matters in terms of direct impact on outcomes is total daily intake of all nutrients.

Thus, you should optimize based on how you respond to training in a fed or fasted state, and based on your hungry after exercise. In other words, use common sense.


Supplements

Supplements are just that, products that are intended to supplement deficiencies in your diet. If your diet is properly composed then there's no need or unique benefit to using supplements.

If your diet isn't properly composed and, thus, you have deficiencies, try to fix your diet to cure such deficiencies though the consumption of whole and minimally processed foods. If you can't fix your diet, then use the lowest dose supplement(a) needed to cure any remaining deficiencies.

[WonderPug]

Wonderpug explains it well:

Kind of you to say.