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  1. #1
    Registered User JCall1985's Avatar
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    Decreasing Body Fat %

    I am what you would consider to be "skinny-fat". I weigh 125 lbs and am 5'3" tall. I'm 26 years old. I run between 3 and 3.5 miles almost every day on the treadmil and hit the gym for my weights 3 days a week for about an hour each time. I eat between 1300-1400 calories each day and part of my eating consists of 2-3 scoops of whey protein. My breakfast is always high fiber oatmeal packet with 2 eggs (only 1 yolk) and fruit, morning snack is Activia Light yogurt and protein shake (1 scoop), lunch open face tuna sandwich (whole can of tuna on 1 peice of whole grain white bread) a pickle and some peanuts or almonds (sometimes a little bit of cheese cubes instead of peanuts), afternoon snack is a naval orange and protein shake (1 scoop), dinner is a meat (chicken, fish, pork chop) some sort of veggie and normally brown rice (sometimes a sweet potato-baked). On gym/weight days, I take in a 3rd protein shake right after my workout (1 scoop). All of my beverages durning the day are mostly water, the occasional diet calorie free soda every now and then. What I am looking to do is decrease my body fat %. The last time I did a calculator online with my measurments, I was right around 25-26% body fat. I would like to aim at getting down around 15-18% body fat (maybe more, but that's my goal for right now). My first goal was weight loss which I have accomplished pretty well I think. I started working out in January of this year (2011) after having a baby. I have gone from weighing 153 when I first started to now weighing in at 125 lbs. Now looking to get lean and decrease body fat %. Any recommendations from anyone now that I've lost most of the "weight" and now just need to replace the body fat that's left with muscle to get around 15-18% body fat?
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  2. #2
    Celiac/Addisonian goalorientgirl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JCall1985 View Post
    I am what you would consider to be "skinny-fat". I weigh 125 lbs and am 5'3" tall. I'm 26 years old. I run between 3 and 3.5 miles almost every day on the treadmil and hit the gym for my weights 3 days a week for about an hour each time. I eat between 1300-1400 calories each day and part of my eating consists of 2-3 scoops of whey protein. My breakfast is always high fiber oatmeal packet with 2 eggs (only 1 yolk) and fruit, morning snack is Activia Light yogurt and protein shake (1 scoop), lunch open face tuna sandwich (whole can of tuna on 1 peice of whole grain white bread) a pickle and some peanuts or almonds (sometimes a little bit of cheese cubes instead of peanuts), afternoon snack is a naval orange and protein shake (1 scoop), dinner is a meat (chicken, fish, pork chop) some sort of veggie and normally brown rice (sometimes a sweet potato-baked). On gym/weight days, I take in a 3rd protein shake right after my workout (1 scoop). All of my beverages durning the day are mostly water, the occasional diet calorie free soda every now and then. What I am looking to do is decrease my body fat %. The last time I did a calculator online with my measurments, I was right around 25-26% body fat. I would like to aim at getting down around 15-18% body fat (maybe more, but that's my goal for right now). My first goal was weight loss which I have accomplished pretty well I think. I started working out in January of this year (2011) after having a baby. I have gone from weighing 153 when I first started to now weighing in at 125 lbs. Now looking to get lean and decrease body fat %. Any recommendations from anyone now that I've lost most of the "weight" and now just need to replace the body fat that's left with muscle to get around 15-18% body fat?
    15-18% is very low for a woman (only people who compete get their body fat that low and for many, it's not sustainable). If you're skinny fat, to get a lower body fat, you can't do it by dropping weight, you need to add muscle. You're eating far too little to do this and to support all your activity. 20% bf is much more reasonable, and likely attainable. You need to build a base of muscle to get their (and look nice once you're there) though. You're going to need to eat lot more and ditch most of that cardio. What does your lifting program look like right now?
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  3. #3
    Registered User JCall1985's Avatar
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    Well hey, even 20% would be alot better than where I'm at now. My lifting normally consists of more lower body weights (abs and down-since that's my more "problematic" areas). I do leg extensions (30 lbs 3 sets of 15), leg press machine (120 lbs 3 sets of 15), inner & outter thiegh machine (55-70 lbs 3 sets of 15 each outter and inner), split leg squats on smith machine (30 lbs plus whatever the bar weighs 3 sets each leg 10-15 reps), wide leg squats to target glutes (20 lbs plus bar weight 3 sets 10 reps). Ab exercises consist of reverse crunch machine (70-80 lbs 3 sets of 15 reps), side twist machine (35 lbs 3 sets of 15 reps each side) and decline sit ups (3 sets of 15-20 reps). All my upper body is kinda like a throw in exercise. I work a little bit of upper body every time and the type of exercise just depends on what I have time to do (shoulder press on machine 20 lbs 3 sets of 10-15), lat pull down (50 lbs 3 sets of 10 reps), cable row for back (60-65 lbs 3 sets of 10 reps), free weight shoulders (5 lbs weights...very weak shoulders...always have been). Incline chest press machine (30 lbs 3 sets of 10-15 reps), fly machine (35 lbs 3 sets of 10 reps), some bicep and tricep on cable machine (around 30 lbs for biceps and 20-25 lbs for triceps). I know the weight most likely sounds like low weight, but I have always heard that low weights high reps makes you more toned. but maybe if you're needing to replace fat with muscle, it might need to be higher weights. I just dont want to get too bulky looking with the muscle, I want it to be lean, toned muscle - not like body builder type look.
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  4. #4
    Celiac/Addisonian goalorientgirl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JCall1985 View Post
    I know the weight most likely sounds like low weight, but I have always heard that low weights high reps makes you more toned. but maybe if you're needing to replace fat with muscle, it might need to be higher weights. I just dont want to get too bulky looking with the muscle, I want it to be lean, toned muscle - not like body builder type look.
    Hey, your weights don't sound low to me, but if you can lift heavier, that's what you want to do. That low weight, high rep buisness is nonsense, really. To get that "toned", fit, look, you want to build muscle, and that means high weight, low rep. You won't get bulky and you won't look like a body builder (unless you devote years of your life to it). Look into a program like New Rules of Lifting for Women. That will explain in detail why you want to lift heavy and it will also help you figure out how you should eat for your goals. Looking lean is all about having a good muscular base and a low body fat. Thus, you need to build some more muscle to get there.
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  5. #5
    Registered User kdiamond55's Avatar
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    Maybe you should try a program like New Rules of Lifting for Women?

    I'm 110 pounds and approximately 17-18% body fat, I'm pretty lean and couldn't imagine being less than 15%, I'd have to be 105 pounds or even less which I think looks awful on me. I'd strive more for the look than the %. The only reason I even know mine is because we did a Paleo challenge in Crossfit and he figured ours (not completely accurate, but close enough). I know for me if I lose any more body fat I'll ruin my "womanly" look. Some fat is attactive.
    Karen
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  6. #6
    Registered User sy2502's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JCall1985 View Post
    My lifting normally consists of more lower body weights (abs and down-since that's my more "problematic" areas).
    Exercising your abs and legs will NOT spot reduce fat in those areas.

    I do leg extensions (30 lbs 3 sets of 15), leg press machine (120 lbs 3 sets of 15), inner & outter thiegh machine (55-70 lbs 3 sets of 15 each outter and inner), split leg squats on smith machine (30 lbs plus whatever the bar weighs 3 sets each leg 10-15 reps), wide leg squats to target glutes (20 lbs plus bar weight 3 sets 10 reps).
    You are all over the place! Unless you have a form of exercise ADD, stick to the basic leg exercises, and go heavy.

    All my upper body is kinda like a throw in exercise.
    Why?

    I know the weight most likely sounds like low weight, but I have always heard that low weights high reps makes you more toned. but maybe if you're needing to replace fat with muscle, it might need to be higher weights. I just dont want to get too bulky looking with the muscle, I want it to be lean, toned muscle - not like body builder type look.
    Please read the stickies on the subject of "getting toned", "getting bulky", and lifting heavy. Sounds like you subscribed to a lot of the nonsense that circulates on crap fitness magazines.
    I try to rep back, but I always neg back.

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  7. #7
    Registered User JCall1985's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sy2502 View Post
    Exercising your abs and legs will NOT spot reduce fat in those areas.


    You are all over the place! Unless you have a form of exercise ADD, stick to the basic leg exercises, and go heavy.
    Can you give examples of "basic leg exercises"? It sounds like i am making it more complicated than what I should. I want to make sure I work all the muscles but in turn dont want to add in extra stuff if I don't need to either so I can try to get more time to do some more upper body work outs too.
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  8. #8
    Grrr... RAWBERRY. Ameinseto's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sy2502 View Post
    Exercising your abs and legs will NOT spot reduce fat in those areas.


    You are all over the place! Unless you have a form of exercise ADD, stick to the basic leg exercises, and go heavy.


    Why?


    Please read the stickies on the subject of "getting toned", "getting bulky", and lifting heavy. Sounds like you subscribed to a lot of the nonsense that circulates on crap fitness magazines.
    Read everything she said. Stop, digest it, and read it again. Repeat as necessary.

    I know when you're starting out it seems tough, but you have GOT to educate yourself about the science behind all of this rather than just using a bunch of broscience and hearsay. You know what they say about giving a man a fish versus teaching him how...

    I am a naturally skinny fat person myself, and I started with the New Rules of Liffting for Women. After six months of eating more (I went from about 1400 cals a day to about 2100) and lifting very heavy and very basic, I saw a massive improvement. You don't need to starve yourself, you don't need a fad diet, and you don't need a trendy 'mix it up' workout routine.
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  9. #9
    Registered User sy2502's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JCall1985 View Post
    Can you give examples of "basic leg exercises"? It sounds like i am making it more complicated than what I should. I want to make sure I work all the muscles but in turn dont want to add in extra stuff if I don't need to either so I can try to get more time to do some more upper body work outs too.
    Squats, deadlifts, calf raises. That's all you need. I dare you to do 3 very heavy sets of each and have any gas left in the tank to do inner thigh machine or leg extensions. By "very heavy" I mean so much weight that you can only do 8-12 repetitions before your muscles are burning so bad you couldn't possibly do another one if they paid you. This means a total of 9 sets, plus any warm-up sets, which shouldn't take too long, depending on how long you rest between sets.
    I sympathize with you, part of the game is understanding how to make your workouts the most efficient and effective possible. Unfortunately gyms don't help with the dozens and dozens of machines, it's easy to think the only way to get a good workout must be to use each and every one of them. Lucky for us, it's much simpler than that!
    I try to rep back, but I always neg back.

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  10. #10
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    I am what you would consider to be "skinny-fat". I weigh 125 lbs and am 5'3" tall. I'm 26 years old. I run between 3 and 3.5 miles almost every day on the treadmil and hit the gym for my weights 3 days a week for about an hour each time. I eat between 1300-1400 calories each day and part of my eating consists of 2-3 scoops of whey protein. My breakfast is always high fiber oatmeal packet with 2 eggs (only 1 yolk) and fruit, morning snack is Activia Light yogurt and protein shake (1 scoop), Now looking to get lean and decrease body fat %. Any recommendations from anyone now that I've lost most of the "weight" and now just need to replace the body fat that's left with muscle to get around 15-18% body fat?
    I'm in the same boat except I'm 10 years older. I just finished cutting down to 27% bodyfat, lol. Now I'm trying to build muscle...just bumped up the calories from 1350 to 1600. Hanging out there for a couple of weeks, then on to 1700-1800. At some point, I'll probably be eating 2000+.

    You might look into 'Starting Strength' as well as the programs mentioned above. That's what I am doing and so far I love it. It's another beginner weight lifting program but focused more on getting stronger.

    Some key points I've been reading on these forums about changing body composition are:

    1. It takes time. Possibly a couple of years or more so don't expect miracles.

    2. You have to put on muscle or else you will be rail thin if you get down to 15-18% bodyfat. This requires that you eat alot (calculate your calorie needs via the macro thread in Nutrition) and choose a beginner program such as the ones mentioned above or 'Starting Strength'.

    3. It helps to start a journal to track your progress and get encouragement. A lot of people on here have been doing this awhile so they can help you with your goals.
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  11. #11
    Registered User oregonchick76's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JCall1985 View Post
    I am what you would consider to be "skinny-fat". I weigh 125 lbs and am 5'3" tall. I'm 26 years old. I run between 3 and 3.5 miles almost every day on the treadmil and hit the gym for my weights 3 days a week for about an hour each time. I eat between 1300-1400 calories each day and part of my eating consists of 2-3 scoops of whey protein. My breakfast is always high fiber oatmeal packet with 2 eggs (only 1 yolk) and fruit, morning snack is Activia Light yogurt and protein shake (1 scoop), lunch open face tuna sandwich (whole can of tuna on 1 peice of whole grain white bread) a pickle and some peanuts or almonds (sometimes a little bit of cheese cubes instead of peanuts), afternoon snack is a naval orange and protein shake (1 scoop), dinner is a meat (chicken, fish, pork chop) some sort of veggie and normally brown rice (sometimes a sweet potato-baked). On gym/weight days, I take in a 3rd protein shake right after my workout (1 scoop). All of my beverages durning the day are mostly water, the occasional diet calorie free soda every now and then. What I am looking to do is decrease my body fat %. The last time I did a calculator online with my measurments, I was right around 25-26% body fat. I would like to aim at getting down around 15-18% body fat (maybe more, but that's my goal for right now). My first goal was weight loss which I have accomplished pretty well I think. I started working out in January of this year (2011) after having a baby. I have gone from weighing 153 when I first started to now weighing in at 125 lbs. Now looking to get lean and decrease body fat %. Any recommendations from anyone now that I've lost most of the "weight" and now just need to replace the body fat that's left with muscle to get around 15-18% body fat?
    I am 5'3" and 125 lbs. I'm currently maintaining at 1800 calories (trying to gain though). I lift 3 times a week and do no cardio. My goal, like most everyone's here, is to gain muscle and lose fat. I used to think that I needed to eat 1200-1400 calories per day and do a ton of cardio. I lost weight, but I never looked the way I wanted to - ultimately because in the process of "dieting", I lost all my muscle.

    I do believe 18% is quite possible and a realistic goal. I am personally shooting for 15-18% myself, but expect that to take me a year.

    If I were you, this is what I'd do -
    *drop the steady state cardio
    *do 2 sessions of HIIT per week (20 min ea)
    *lift full body 3 x per week (focus on squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, lat pulldowns)
    *eat 1500-1600 calories
    *eat 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight
    *get plenty of fat (50g or so)
    squat - 225
    bench - 145
    deadlift - 275
    press - 105

    "if the bar ain't bendin', you're just pretendin'"
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by JCall1985 View Post
    Well hey, even 20% would be alot better than where I'm at now. My lifting normally consists of more lower body weights (abs and down-since that's my more "problematic" areas). I do leg extensions (30 lbs 3 sets of 15), leg press machine (120 lbs 3 sets of 15), inner & outter thiegh machine (55-70 lbs 3 sets of 15 each outter and inner), split leg squats on smith machine (30 lbs plus whatever the bar weighs 3 sets each leg 10-15 reps), wide leg squats to target glutes (20 lbs plus bar weight 3 sets 10 reps). Ab exercises consist of reverse crunch machine (70-80 lbs 3 sets of 15 reps), side twist machine (35 lbs 3 sets of 15 reps each side) and decline sit ups (3 sets of 15-20 reps). All my upper body is kinda like a throw in exercise. I work a little bit of upper body every time and the type of exercise just depends on what I have time to do (shoulder press on machine 20 lbs 3 sets of 10-15), lat pull down (50 lbs 3 sets of 10 reps), cable row for back (60-65 lbs 3 sets of 10 reps), free weight shoulders (5 lbs weights...very weak shoulders...always have been). Incline chest press machine (30 lbs 3 sets of 10-15 reps), fly machine (35 lbs 3 sets of 10 reps), some bicep and tricep on cable machine (around 30 lbs for biceps and 20-25 lbs for triceps). I know the weight most likely sounds like low weight, but I have always heard that low weights high reps makes you more toned. but maybe if you're needing to replace fat with muscle, it might need to be higher weights. I just dont want to get too bulky looking with the muscle, I want it to be lean, toned muscle - not like body builder type look.
    What does toned mean, to you? All "toned" really means is that your bodyfat is low enough that you can see your muscles. Muscles are always "lean". It's the layer of fat over them that looks bad.

    There is no way you're going to accidentally achieve a bodybuilder look - that takes years of hard work, specific to that goal. Lifting weights will not make you "bulky". It will make you strong and speed up your metabolism.

    Low weigh/high rep is more of a cardio workout than a muscle-building workout.

    Get off the machines... The inner/outer thigh thingy is absolutely a waste of time. It will not make your legs smaller (cannot spot reduce), and the muscle that is being worked is as big around as my pinky.

    Get over to the free weights, pronto....

    Do the following exercises 3 x per week -
    squat
    deadlift
    bench press
    overhead press
    lat pulldown
    bentover rows

    get your sets into the 6-8 rep range.
    squat - 225
    bench - 145
    deadlift - 275
    press - 105

    "if the bar ain't bendin', you're just pretendin'"
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    Originally Posted by JCall1985 View Post
    Can you give examples of "basic leg exercises"? It sounds like i am making it more complicated than what I should. I want to make sure I work all the muscles but in turn dont want to add in extra stuff if I don't need to either so I can try to get more time to do some more upper body work outs too.
    Squat.
    Lunge.
    squat - 225
    bench - 145
    deadlift - 275
    press - 105

    "if the bar ain't bendin', you're just pretendin'"
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    Registered User oregonchick76's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lishe View Post
    I'm in the same boat except I'm 10 years older. I just finished cutting down to 27% bodyfat, lol. Now I'm trying to build muscle...just bumped up the calories from 1350 to 1600. Hanging out there for a couple of weeks, then on to 1700-1800. At some point, I'll probably be eating 2000+.
    You are 5'3" and 118 lbs, and you think you're 27% bf? That seems awfully high - how did you check it? I am 5'3" and 125 lbs, and I'm about 25%.
    squat - 225
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    press - 105

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    Registered User sy2502's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by oregonchick76 View Post
    Get off the machines... The inner/outer thigh thingy is absolutely a waste of time. It will not make your legs smaller (cannot spot reduce), and the muscle that is being worked is as big around as my pinky.
    ^^ THIS!! ^^

    I am willing to bet one week salary that this guy has never used the stupid inner thigh machine in his life. But I am willing to bet he got those legs by regularly squatting the weight equivalent of a small car.

    I try to rep back, but I always neg back.

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    Beastly bosgirlin09's Avatar
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    You don't need to worry about lifting heavier. Peruse the journals on here, look at the weight being lifted and then look at the pics of the women lifting that weight.

    For example, I can squat 215 lbs. Front squat 165. I do shoulder press with 37.5 dumbells.
    Look at my progress pics. My legs barely have the definition I want...even with years of training and getting up to that strength.

    Sometimes seeing something makes it easier to believe than hearing it..
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    Registered User JCall1985's Avatar
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    I really appreciate all of the advice. I am going to try what everyone has been talking about this evening at the gym (upping my weights for everything), and hey it sounds like with simplifying my leg workouts and getting off the machines, i might even save myself some time so I can work in a better total body (upper and lower) in the same amount of time I was spending before with doing all the machines. Also, next time I am near a Borders Books, I am going to look for that book everyone's been talking about "New Rules for Lifting for Women". Seems like it's going to have lots of TRUE and good information in it.

    I know you can't "spot reduce" areas, so the fatty stuff on top of my abs will just need to work off with my over all training. But any tips on getting a good ab workout. Should I do floor exercises, or is there other exercises I should be doing that include weights as well for the abs? My abs are getting pretty dang hard under this top fatty tissue and they just need time I know, but I figured since ya'll have been such a big help already, you could give me some advice on new/different ab workouts that I can include in my gym days (and non-gym days as well).

    Thanks again for all the help and if anyone else has anything to add that would help me even more, keep it coming. I keep checking back anyways to see if there's new posts.
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    Registered User sy2502's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JCall1985 View Post
    I really appreciate all of the advice. I am going to try what everyone has been talking about this evening at the gym (upping my weights for everything), and hey it sounds like with simplifying my leg workouts and getting off the machines, i might even save myself some time so I can work in a better total body (upper and lower) in the same amount of time I was spending before with doing all the machines. Also, next time I am near a Borders Books, I am going to look for that book everyone's been talking about "New Rules for Lifting for Women". Seems like it's going to have lots of TRUE and good information in it.

    I know you can't "spot reduce" areas, so the fatty stuff on top of my abs will just need to work off with my over all training. But any tips on getting a good ab workout. Should I do floor exercises, or is there other exercises I should be doing that include weights as well for the abs? My abs are getting pretty dang hard under this top fatty tissue and they just need time I know, but I figured since ya'll have been such a big help already, you could give me some advice on new/different ab workouts that I can include in my gym days (and non-gym days as well).

    Thanks again for all the help and if anyone else has anything to add that would help me even more, keep it coming. I keep checking back anyways to see if there's new posts.
    Abs are just another muscle group, remember that when training them. They will get stronger as you train them, so you need to find ways to challenge them. If you do flat crunches, try decline crunches, or crunch holding a weight to your chest. Or do reverse crunches holding a weight between your knees, etc. Also if you exercise with dumbbells and barbells instead of machines, your core will be automatically engaged to stabilize you, which is an added bonus.
    Again, try not to think in terms of "new exercises" (which is probably why you were hopping from one machine to the next), but of consistency and progressively increasing resistance.
    I try to rep back, but I always neg back.

    follow my journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=158036453&pagenumber=
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  19. #19
    Registered User lishe's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by oregonchick76 View Post
    You are 5'3" and 118 lbs, and you think you're 27% bf? That seems awfully high - how did you check it? I am 5'3" and 125 lbs, and I'm about 25%.
    yeah i find it hard to believe. and i don't want to believe it. but i did the bodpod test and my impedance tests are all coming in around the same ballpark: 27-28%.

    as a comparison, when i was 33 and weighed 118, my bodyfat was 24% measured by the skinfold test.

    i am now 37 and notice more fat in my belly and arms than at the same weight at 33. i think i have just lost muscle since then.
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    Registered User jamielee10's Avatar
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    an ab exercise i love to do is leg lifts- lay on your back, feet straight out, toes pointed and i hold onto either the bottom of my couch or the weight bench right above my head. lift legs- while keeping them straight- up to about 90 degrees and lower slowly til about an inch above the ground- while (obviously) using your abs to maintain control and height... i also like to get my obliques by lowering legs to the sides- about 30-45 degrees.

    i'm glad you posted this- i'm totally in the same boat. i'm 5'8 and weight 140. according to a bmi calculator i have about 21% body fat but then my hubby got some fat calipers and my measurements indicated 31% body fat!! eek! i've started jamie eason's 12 week muscle building program and am about 2.5 weeks into it. so far the diet has been the hardest part but after hearing i'm 31% body fat that was pretty motivating to stop with the pizza and ice cream best of luck to you!!
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    Originally Posted by jamielee10 View Post
    i'm glad you posted this- i'm totally in the same boat. i'm 5'8 and weight 140. according to a bmi calculator i have about 21% body fat but then my hubby got some fat calipers and my measurements indicated 31% body fat!! eek! i've started jamie eason's 12 week muscle building program and am about 2.5 weeks into it. so far the diet has been the hardest part but after hearing i'm 31% body fat that was pretty motivating to stop with the pizza and ice cream best of luck to you!!
    BMI is your body mass index. It doesn't measure your body fat; it uses your weight (both fat and muscle, and everything else - bone, water, etc.) and your height to come up with the number. For this reason it's really a bad tool for really muscular people - they wind up with a high BMI even if they have barely any fat on them.

    But 21 is well within a "normal" range, for whatever that's worth!
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    Registered User jamielee10's Avatar
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    oops! newbie mistake... and i can tell you for sure that i definitely do not fall into the 'really muscular' category! yet
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    Registered User JCall1985's Avatar
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    Smile

    Thanks to all. I have ordered the "New Rules of Lifting for Women" book last night from Barnes & Nobles. So that will give me lots of reading to do so I can study up on how all this works (scientifically about the body I guess is what I mean). But thanks again for all the help.
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    Registered User TkCtrl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by oregonchick76 View Post
    You are 5'3" and 118 lbs, and you think you're 27% bf? That seems awfully high - how did you check it? I am 5'3" and 125 lbs, and I'm about 25%.
    I'm 5'3" 125 and 22% ha ha
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    Registered User lishe's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TkCtrl View Post
    I'm 5'3" 125 and 22% ha ha
    brat
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