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    Muslim PhD: Israel has a right to exist, Jews rock, Islam has been hijacked

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Hadi_Palazzi

    Abdul Hadi Palazzi (Arabic: شيخ عبد الهادي بالاتسي*), legally named Massimo Palazzi, is the secretary general of the Italian Muslim Assembly, and the Khalifah for Europe of the Qadiri Sufi Order.[1]. His a co-founder and a co-chairman of the Islam-Israel Fellowship, based on what Palazzi believes are the authentic teachings of Muhammad as expressed in the Qur'an and the Hadith.
    Palazzi was born in Rome, Italy to an Italian Catholic father who converted to Islam and a Muslim mother of Syrian descent.[2][3][4] After completing his secular and religious education in Rome and Cairo in 1987, he served as an Imam for the Italian Islamic Community. In addition to numerous Masters Degrees, Palazzi holds a Ph.D. in Islamic Sciences from the Institute for Islamic Studies and Research in Naples.[5]
    He was appointed a member of the Board of Directors of the Italian Muslim Association in 1989, and is now the Secretary General of the Italian Muslim Assembly[6] Since 1991, he is a Director of the Cultural Institute of the Italian Islamic Community, with a program based on the development of Islamic education in Italy, refutation of fundamentalism and fanaticism, and deep involvement in inter-religious dialogue, especially with Jews and Christians, but also with Buddhists and others.
    Mirin yet?

    Palazzi accepts Israel's sovereignty over the Holy Land, and says the Qur'an supports it as the will of God as a necessary prerequisite for the Final Judgment. He accepts Israel's sovereignty over Jerusalem, if the rights of other religions are protected. He quotes the Qur'an to support Judaism's special connection to the Temple Mount. According to Palazzi, "The most authoritative Islamic sources affirm the Temples,". He adds that Jerusalem is sacred to Muslims because of its prior holiness to Jews and its standing as home to the biblical prophets and kings David and Solomon, all of whom he says are sacred figures also in Islam. He claims that the Qur'an "expressly recognizes that Jerusalem plays the same role for Jews that Mecca has for Muslims".[9]

    When asked whether he see himself as a "Muslim Zionist", he replied: "If one means a Muslim who supports the right of the Jewish people to have their own independent and sovereign State, who is solidly behind the State of Israel when it is attacked by terror and when its existence in menaced, who thinks that developing friendly relations between the Muslim nations and the State of Israel is in the interest of the Muslims and of human civilization in general, then I think that the label of Muslim Zionist is appropriate.[10]

    When asked what the Qur'an says about the State of Israel, Palazzi replied:

    "The Qur'an cannot deal with the State of Israel as we know it today, since that State came into existing in 1948 only, i.e. many centuries after the Qur'an itself was revealed. However, the Qur'an specify that the Land of Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people, that God Himself gave that Land to them as heritage and ordered them to live therein. It also announces that - before the end of the time - the Jewish people will come from many different countries to retake possession of that heritage of theirs. Whoever denies this actually denies the Qur'an itself. If he is not a scholar, and in good faith believes what other people say about this issue, he is an ignorant Muslim. If, on the contrary, he is informed about what the Qur'an and openly opposes it, he cease to be a Muslim.

    In a 2011 interview, Palazzi stated, "Israel is the only modern state whose existence can be consider a realization of a prophecy contained in both the Quran and the Bible. We must pray for that state to be a light for the nations and by our means we must support its right to independence, sovereignty and security."[1[11]

    Palazzi opposes the US-backed roadmap for peace on the grounds that it rewards Palestinian terrorism.[13] He argues against calls for jihad against Israel and says there is no religious demand for Israel to give up control over Muslim holy places.[
    More here:

    http://www.templemount.org/quranland.html



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    So someone with Ph.D can never say stupid sh.t?
    You just keep pushing. You just keep pushing. I made every mistake that could be made. But I just kept pushing.

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    hes a sufi, those guys are cool. almost like islamic buddhists, however many muslims consider them heretics so they have been copping it lately.

    edit: just read where he uses islamic scripture is an authority on things in the real world, douche.
    If its yellow let it mellow, if its brown flush it down, maybe
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    Originally Posted by chashma1 View Post
    So someone with Ph.D can never say stupid sh.t?
    Can you refute his points?
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    Originally Posted by oodaloop View Post
    Can you refute his points?
    ^^^
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    Originally Posted by longshankman View Post
    hes a sufi, those guys are cool. almost like islamic buddhists, however many muslims consider them heretics so they have been copping it lately.

    edit: just read where he uses islamic scripture is an authority on things in the real world, douche.
    Who are you talking to?
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    Originally Posted by oodaloop View Post
    Catholic to Muslim? Frying pan into fire!
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    Originally Posted by oodaloop View Post
    Can you refute his points?
    No that would be a waste of my time since there is already enough evidence out there that refutes his entire article. You think you can understand the entire Palestine-Israel situation just by reading one article from someone with Ph.D? Countless learnt Muslims scholars have been wrong for years and apparently this guy gets it right. I would lol @ his face and leave.
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    More, excerpts from here:

    http://www.templemount.org/quranland.html

    The Qur'an recognizes the Land of Israel as the heritage of the Jews and it explains that, before the Last Judgment, Jews will return to dwell there. This prophecy has already been fulfilled.

    -----

    Viewing the Jewish return to Israel as a Western invasion and Zionists as recent colonizers is new.

    -----

    Using Islam as a basis for preventing Arabs from recognizing any sovereign right of Jews over the Land of Israel is new. Such beliefs are not found in classical Islamic sources.

    Concluding that anti-Zionism is the logical outgrowth of Islamic faith is wrong. This conclusion represents the false transformation of Islam from a religion into a secularized ideology.

    Such a false transformation of Islam was in fact made by the late Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin el-Husseini. He is the one person most responsible, both morally and materially, for the repeated Arab defeats in their conflict with the Jews in Israel.

    -----

    Therefore, from an Islamic point of view, there is NO fundamental reason which prohibits Muslims from recognizing Israel as a friendly State.

    -----

    PLO documents can in no way be regarded as Islamic. The PLO leaders are a gang of criminals and thieves, and Arabs will be the main victims of any supposed "Palestinian State" under their leadership.

    -----

    I do not believe that Islam is the factor preventing normalization between Arabs and the State of Israel. The real problem is that members of the ruling classes in Arab countries believe their authority and power would be threatned by democracy, modernization, and education in the Arab world. They use a distorted interpretation of Islam as a political tool, and unfortunately the majority of uneducated Arabs believe their poisonous propaganda.

    I believe that we must return to the time when Islam was in the vanguard of scientific progress and interfaith dialogue. Instead of false "leaders" such as Qadhafi, Saddam Hussein, Arafat [el-Husseini] or Yasin, we Muslims again need true leaders such as al-Ghazali, Ibn Rushd and Ibn Khaldum.

    King Faysal of Iraq said: "The Arabs, and particularly the educated ones among them, must look at the Zionist movement with the deepest sympathy."

    Tragically, true leaders such as Faysal were silenced, and fanatics such as Haj Amin al-Husseini prevailed.

    -----

    After reviewing the relevant Qur'anic passages concerning this matter, I conclude that, as no one denies Muslims complete sovereignty over Mecca, from an Islamic point of view - despite opposing, groundless claims - there is no reason for Muslims to deny the State of Israel - which is a JEWISH state - complete sovereignty over Jerusalem.

    -----

    When asked whether he see himself as a "Muslim Zionist", he replied: "If one means a Muslim who supports the right of the Jewish people to have their own independent and sovereign State, who is solidly behind the State of Israel when it is attacked by terror and when its existence in menaced, who thinks that developing friendly relations between the Muslim nations and the State of Israel is in the interest of the Muslims and of human civilization in general, then I think that the label of Muslim Zionist is appropriate.[
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    Originally Posted by chashma1 View Post
    No that would be a waste of my time since there is already enough evidence out there that refutes his entire article. You think you can understand the entire Palestine-Israel situation just by reading one article from someone with Ph.D? Countless learnt Muslims scholars have been wrong for years and apparently this guy gets it right. I would lol @ his face and leave.
    Why not try, otherwise it's your credentials (miscer) against his (PhD, European Islamic leader, Sufi Khalifa). Good luck with that.

    BTW, my understanding of the Israeli-palestinian issue comes from far more than one article.
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    Everyone has a right to exist.
    "Molon Labe."
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    Originally Posted by oodaloop View Post
    Why not try, otherwise it's your credentials (miscer) against his (PhD, European Islamic leader, Sufi Khalifa). Good luck with that.

    BTW, my understanding of the Israeli-palestinian issue comes from far more than one article.
    Wth is a Sufi Khalifa? These are all made up titles that do not mean anything. I am a Miscer Khalifa, now what?
    As i said, if i were to entertain every single idiotic statement out there i could be sitting here forever.
    You just keep pushing. You just keep pushing. I made every mistake that could be made. But I just kept pushing.

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    Originally Posted by chashma1 View Post
    Wth is a Sufi Khalifa? These are all made up titles that do not mean anything. I am a Miscer Khalifa, now what?
    As i said, if i were to entertain every single idiotic statement out there i could be sitting here forever.
    No.

    The Sufi shaykhs train deputies (khalifa), who represent and supervise the followers of various districts in the name of the shaykh, collecting allegiance, and dues, for the shaykh.
    Instead of trying to discredit the man, why not discredit the message?
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    Originally Posted by chashma1 View Post
    I have absolutely no argument that I can use to refute this article, so I will begin maximum trolling.
    Time to stop posting kid.
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    Originally Posted by oodaloop View Post
    No.



    Instead of trying to discredit the man, why not discredit the message?
    Let me get this straight, if i found some extremely absurd article and copy pasted it here would you take your time to refute it? You think i have that kind of time?

    I don't recognize any Sufi khalifa and it sounds like a made up title to me
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    Originally Posted by Weightaholic View Post
    Time to stop posting kid.
    This reminds me, do you even lift? I've never seen you with an avi. LOL @ pissed off fatty. You mirin'? *front double bi*
    You just keep pushing. You just keep pushing. I made every mistake that could be made. But I just kept pushing.

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    Originally Posted by Dr.Z View Post
    Everyone has a right to exist.
    Sure. But I do not have the right to exist in your home without your consent.
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    Originally Posted by chashma1 View Post
    This reminds me, do you even lift? I've never seen you with an avi. LOL @ pissed off fatty. You mirin'? *front double bi*
    Don't concern yourself with what I do and don't do, and I'd appreciate it if you quit fantasizing about me.

    Either refute the argument, and make a sensible post, or piss off, you irritating little nugget.
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    Originally Posted by chashma1 View Post
    Let me get this straight, if i found some extremely absurd article and copy pasted it here would you take your time to refute it? You think i have that kind of time?

    I don't recognize any Sufi khalifa and it sounds like a made up title to me
    You saying it's absurd does not make it so. He quotes quran verse. I looked it up. You do not. Are you calling the Koran absurd?
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    my 1rd post:

    w w w.amislam.com/christian.htm

    So what do Palestinian theologians say? I asked Mustafa Abu-Sway, professor of Islamic theology at Al Quds-University in Abu Dis, east of Jerusalem. Abu-Sway, like Palazzi, studied philosophy, but at Boston University, where he also taught for many years. Sway is an observant Muslim, but has been influenced by Western liberalism. His wife is a professor of Islamic law. He was a member of the Muslim-Christian Council in Jerusalem, and is a frequent guest at international conferences on inter-religious dialogue.

    Sway has met Palazzi on several occasions, both in Italy and Israel. He says Palazzi is a nice chap. Very educated. But completely wrong.

    Zionism, he says, is "an aggressive political agenda aimed at suppressing the Palestinian people." He is quick to add: "We understand very well that there is a difference between Judaism and Zionism. This is not about Jewish presence. It's about an ideology of DNA-based superiority. Zionism knows two categories - inferior humans, Palestinians, and superior humans, Jews, that rule the first. This is unacceptable according to both Islam and international human rights."
    Sway explains that every Muslim is free to interpret the Qur'an in the way he thinks is correct. "Everybody can do it -Palazzi, me, even a child." Yet in order to be taken seriously among scholars one has to obey some rules of interpretation. One of them is coherence, another is not to apply contemporary concepts. Palazzi does both.

    "Therefore," Sway says, "Palazzi's reputation as a scholar is close to zero."


    His main mistake, continues Sway, is to attempt to legitimize Israel with passages from the Qur'an. Not because it's Israel, but because "the very concept of a state is a brainchild of the 19th century. How can anyone find proof in the Qur'an for something that at the time of prophet Muhammed did not exist?"

    Sway goes on: "Palazzi does exactly the same thing he blames Islamic extremists for - mingling religion with politics."


    Perhaps Palazzi's rather peculiar interpretation is explainable partly by his very biography. Lisnyansky is writing her PhD-thesis on immigrants in Europe who became extremists. In contrast to many Imams in France or Great Britain, who were radicalized as a result of their failure to integrate in a different country, Palazzi "created his own niche. Being born into an immigrant family, he combined the democratic rights of western Europe with a love for Islam," but added his Zionist mission. As a result, "he is a radical too, but not on the radicals' side. He is fighting everything that political Islam promotes."
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    Originally Posted by feedmelies View Post
    Sure. But I do not have the right to exist in your home without your consent.
    Then why did the Arabs attack Israel in 1947-8 with the intent to get rid of all of them, even land-owners, in a war Israel did not instigate?
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    Originally Posted by Weightaholic View Post
    Don't concern yourself with what I do and don't do, and I'd appreciate it if you quit fantasizing about me.

    Either refute the argument, and make a sensible post, or piss off, you irritating little nugget.
    You joined this site 6 years ago and still haven't started working out. I would tie you behind my truck and drive at 10 mph. u best run or im draggin ur ass everywhere

    Originally Posted by oodaloop View Post
    You saying it's absurd does not make it so. He quotes quran verse. I looked it up. You do not. Are you calling the Koran absurd?
    That's a good way to squeeze an answer out of me but as i said i am not going to take my time to refute any absurd statements out there. Even a non-Muslim can quote verses of the Qur'an and cook up an absurd article revolving around it.
    You just keep pushing. You just keep pushing. I made every mistake that could be made. But I just kept pushing.

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    Originally Posted by Broliterian View Post
    my 1rd post:

    w w w.amislam.com/christian.htm
    What a surprise. This is why i don't even bother paying attention to these "scholars" and "sufi Khalifas." I know these "Ph.D students" all too well by now.
    You just keep pushing. You just keep pushing. I made every mistake that could be made. But I just kept pushing.

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    Originally Posted by chashma1 View Post
    You joined this site 6 years ago and still haven't started working out. I would tie you behind my truck and drive at 10 mph. u best run or im draggin ur ass everywhere.
    lol'd so hard
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    Originally Posted by chashma1 View Post
    You joined this site 6 years ago and still haven't started working out. I would tie you behind my truck and drive at 10 mph. u best run or im draggin ur ass everywhere
    Even if I didn't work out, would that somehow make your posts less moronic? The answer is of course no. So don't worry about what I do and don't do. It has no bearing on your argument, and only serves to make you look petty minded and stupid.
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    Originally Posted by chashma1 View Post
    So someone with Ph.D can never say stupid sh.t?
    And someone who knows the Quran also can...listen to this. He is a great scholar...lol



    It's no big deal to be termed a great Islamic scholar, I guess.
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    Originally Posted by Broliterian View Post
    my 1rd post:

    w w w.amislam.com/christian.htm
    Here's the full, unedited text of that:

    http://www.amislam.com/christian.htm

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    Originally Posted by chashma1 View Post
    What a surprise. This is why i don't even bother paying attention to these "scholars" and "sufi Khalifas." I know these "Ph.D students" all too well by now.
    So my 'article' is absurd, but his isn't? How do you know which is and which isn't, unless you can actually think it out?
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    Originally Posted by Weightaholic View Post
    Even if I didn't work out, would that somehow make your posts less moronic? The answer is of course no. So don't worry about what I do and don't do. It has no bearing on your argument, and only serves to make you look petty minded and stupid.
    Why would you join a bodybuilding site if you never intended on working out? Since you're here, why not start learning instead being an angry fatty that releases all of the world's anger in R/P? Or you're probably waiting for a magic pill to hit the market so you can actually start looking normal.
    You just keep pushing. You just keep pushing. I made every mistake that could be made. But I just kept pushing.

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    Originally Posted by oodaloop View Post
    Here's the full, unedited text of that:



    I did not edit that, look at the bottom half of the article, when it says, " I asked Mustafa Abu-Sway, professor of Islamic theology at Al Quds-University in Abu Dis, east of Jerusalem."

    seriously, take a look.
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