gaining muscle workouts?

[all pro]

A Simpleton's Guide to Charles Poliquin's Training Principles, Part I

The II-B or Not II-B Principle

We just got done talking about fiber types. Well, true muscle physiology types (the kind that wear lab coats with the sleeves torn off) refer to these fibers using cute little alphanumeric terms, like II-A or II-B. These numbers refer to their oxidative capacity. Now, type II-B fibers are generally known as fast-twitch fibers and are the ones called on to do very heavy lifting. When you experience strength failure, much of it's due to the fact that these type II-B fibers have petered out-they just don't have the endurance of the other muscle fibers. They're like the fat truck driver who lives down the street; huge SOB, real strong, but can't run more than 10 feet without kissing the pavement.

After these fibers are fatigued, it's hard to engage them fully in subsequent exercises. However, the other fibers, the type II-A guys, will still be fresh, and they're best stimulated with reps of between ten and twelve.

The point here is that you should do your heavy weight, low-rep movements first in the workout. Then, after those fibers are baked, go on to your higher-rep movements.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...nciples_part_1

[Devin1822]

I'm just going to repeat what multiple people have already said but...

You are most likely not advanced enough to be making or creating your own routine. You would benefit more from a beginner full body routine.

Highly recommend looking at the sticky on the top of the page and picking a beginner routine like SS, All pro, or Madcow. Those are tried and proven routines that work.

Then you should head over to the nutrition section of the forums and looking up the sticky for calculating your caloric needs and macro nutrients. Find your "maintenance" for calories and shoot for 10-20% above it if you are wanting to put on mass ( Which is what I am assuming you are) and monitor your weight. If you don't gain 2lbs in 2 weeks increase calories by 200-300 a week until you are gaining at the rate which you want.

Hope it helps!

[Orlando1234977]

Go ahead and keep repeating the mistakes of the past. Reverse pyramids work. Standard pyramids are a waste of time.....like me bothering to respond to you. You're still stuck in the same mindset you were in 2 years ago and you're still wrong.
I issued a challenge a few posts up. I dare you. You know your wrong.

By not doing a standard 3 sets of 5 implies repeating the mistakes of the past?
Are you joking? Wake up.

Many bodybuilders train using standard pyramids, they work
Many bodybuilders train using reverse pyramids, they work
Many bodybuilders train sets across using reps higher than 5, they work

Even Waynelucky knows you're wrong.

who?

[N@tural1]

By not doing a standard 3 sets of 5 implies repeating the mistakes of the past?
Are you joking? Wake up.

Many bodybuilders train using standard pyramids, they work
Many bodybuilders train using reverse pyramids, they work
Many bodybuilders train sets across using reps higher than 5, they work

Have to agree with this.

As long as you're progressive with sufficient volume it all works..

[pitbull14218]

I just changed my routine recently, Its a hybrid plan that uses some ideas from I think his name is Chad Waterbury "Huge in a Hurry" book. I do a push a pull and a T-booster(deadlift or leg press*still working on hamstring flexibility so I can get low enough on the squat without leaning forward or having the heel lift*). I do around 5 sets of a heavy weight I can do 5 times, which equals around 25 reps total per exercise. Im only on week two starting next week unfortunitley, so I can't really say if its working or not, I've been training long enough that this might be a good routine, I was doing a 3 day split before. So I'll have to give this routine more time, it doesn't help with memorial day weekend, I know im going to the beach and I want to lose more body fat so my abs really pop, so today I just cut carbs...ugh this isn't going to help with gaining muscle lol, but maybe it will because I still drink milk with every meal.

Routine.

MON.

Leg press

weighted chest dips

body weight pull ups

WED.

Deadliffts

Flat Bench press

Seated cable rows

FRI.

Leg press

Shoulder press

Body weight pull ups


All with the heaviest weights that limit my rep range to 4-6 reps, do around 25 reps per exercise and I move the weight on the postivie phase as fast as I can which with heavy weight isn't fast... I stop the exercise when my speed slows or my form changes, so its not to failure, but sometimes it really would be the last rep I would trust without a spotter

[all pro]

Have to agree with this.

As long as you're progressive with sufficient volume it all works..

He's making a strawman argument. Read what I said. After 2+ years of everyone, including Madcow and Defiant1 trying to explain this to him, I'm not going to waste anymore time with it. Post exhaust > Pre exhaust.


A Simpleton's Guide to Charles Poliquin's Training Principles, Part I

The II-B or Not II-B Principle

We just got done talking about fiber types. Well, true muscle physiology types (the kind that wear lab coats with the sleeves torn off) refer to these fibers using cute little alphanumeric terms, like II-A or II-B. These numbers refer to their oxidative capacity. Now, type II-B fibers are generally known as fast-twitch fibers and are the ones called on to do very heavy lifting. When you experience strength failure, much of it's due to the fact that these type II-B fibers have petered out-they just don't have the endurance of the other muscle fibers. They're like the fat truck driver who lives down the street; huge SOB, real strong, but can't run more than 10 feet without kissing the pavement.

After these fibers are fatigued, it's hard to engage them fully in subsequent exercises. However, the other fibers, the type II-A guys, will still be fresh, and they're best stimulated with reps of between ten and twelve.

The point here is that you should do your heavy weight, low-rep movements first in the workout. Then, after those fibers are baked, go on to your higher-rep movements.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...nciples_part_1

[Orlando1234977]

The only way that your way makes any sense is if you did 4 sets,
6,8,10,12 stripping about 10% off each time. It's been tried. It isn't very effective. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

Standard pyramids are a waste of time.....like me bothering to respond to you.

He's making a strawman argument.

I'm the one making a strawman argument?? lol Read above. You're saying that what many many bodybuilders do...'isn't very effective', and 'are a waste of time'.. get real.

Further;
a. I've never spoke to Madcow, I joined after he stopped posting
b. don't know Waynelucky, and
c. Defiant1 trains using pyramids. The exact thing you're bashing.

[Orlando1234977]

6,8,10,12 stripping about 10% off each time. It's been tried. It isn't very effective. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

Standard pyramids are a waste of time.....

Defiant1 trying to explain this

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...31&postcount=3

[all pro]

Because it is bull****. Tried it for YEARS and it didn't do dick for me.

I am not talking about doing laterals for sets, then doing presses (that isn't pre-exhaust to me, that is exercise order), I am talking about doing iso's and going RIGHT to the "compound" (no rest).

And I have a ton of respect for Robert Kennedy.

In order to "pre-exhaust" you would have to use the exact same resistance curve on the exact same muscles....which means you would be doing the same exercise.

The science I've seen just verifies my experience...the body SHUTS DOWN the use of the "fatigued" muscle. In fact, "post-exhaust" would make more sense....and hey, what do you know..that is what most people do by instinct!!!ONE1!!!Eleven!! (do compounds first, then isos later).

If it REALLY works for someone, then they should keep using it. But human beings ability to convince themselves something works is remarkable (witness "HIT").

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...31&postcount=3

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...t=post+exhaust

[Orlando1234977]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...t=post+exhaust

Pre-exhaust and pyramids are not the same thing.

LOLzz

Please mention anything I said about pre-exhaustion, or quoted you about pre-exhaustion. We are talking about pyramids.

You're embarrassing yourself now.

[all pro]

Pre-exhaust and pyramids are not the same thing.

LOLzz

Please mention anything I said about pre-exhaustion, or quoted you about pre-exhaustion. We are talking about pyramids.

You're embarrassing yourself now.

Orlando you're either a sore loser or an idiot. Either way, grow up and get over it. You were wrong on this issue 2 years ago and you're still wrong. Pyramiding from high rep to low rep is pre exhaust. You don't have to use 2 different exercises to do that.

[all pro]

anyone incorporate pyamids sets in your workout? If so, how are you muscle gains and how are your strength gains?

for instance, I do sets of 12,10,8,6,12 where I add weight each set and then drop weight at the last set.

anyone else do pyramids?

I've done them almost my whole life on "major" exercises.

Pre-exhaust and pyramids are not the same thing.

LOLzz

Please mention anything I said about pre-exhaustion, or quoted you about pre-exhaustion. We are talking about pyramids.

You're embarrassing yourself now.

Who's embarrassed?

[Orlando1234977]

Pyramiding from high rep to low rep is pre exhaust. You don't have to use 2 different exercises to do that.

Funny that you bring Defiant1 into this.. he DOES pyramids.. as do MANY of the bodybuilders in the journals.

small sample from him, see if he agrees with you.



http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...8&postcount=14

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=16

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...16&postcount=2

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...09&postcount=5


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...06&postcount=2

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...47&postcount=8


I can't believe I even have to defend such an obvious topic.



You really think bodybuilders don't pyramid?



Stick to straight up strength training A.P.

[all pro]

Funny that you bring Defiant1 into this.. he DOES pyramids.. as do MANY of the bodybuilders in the journals.

small sample from him, see if he agrees with you.



http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...8&postcount=14

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=16

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...16&postcount=2

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...09&postcount=5


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...06&postcount=2

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...47&postcount=8


I can't believe I even have to defend such an obvious topic.



You really think bodybuilders don't pyramid?



Stick to straight up strength training A.P.

And yet you choose to ignore an entire thread about pre exhaust that PROVES you wrong with several posts from D1. As for your last comment, when I want your opinion or advice I'll tell you what it is.

[Orlando1234977]

And yet you choose to ignore an entire thread about pre exhaust that PROVES you wrong with several posts from D1. As for your last comment, when I want your opinion or advice I'll tell you what it is.

D1 DOES pyramids you clueless hack...

MANY bodybuilders do pyramids, what you said regarding them being 'mistakes of the past', 'not very effective', and a 'waste of time' is completely inaccurate.

Pyramids and Pre-exhaust are not the same thing. If you had any actual bodybuilding experience you might know this.

[SquatTilYouDrop]

All Pro must = Alzheimer's



I'm giving him an excuse for posting some of the dumbest logic ever to grace bb.com.


And that's saying a lot.


Also, Using Defiant's post to win a retarded argument that isn't even being used properly makes it all the more laughable.

[N@tural1]

Pyramids and Pre-exhaust are not the same thing.

^^ Absolutely right.

All pro I disagree with you on this one. Bodybuilders DO pyramid and this IS NOT the same as pre-exhaust.

[all pro]

^^ Absolutely right.

All pro I disagree with you on this one. Bodybuilders DO pyramid and this IS NOT the same as pre-exhaust.

If you do the high rep work first you have pre exhaustion 2D and 2x fibers. Therefore it IS pre exhaust.

You're signed up to run 3 races all in 1 day. The winner will be the one with the lowest overall time. You have to run a 40 yard dash, a half mile sprint and a 1 mile run. What order do you want to run them in and why?

[CaptainGorgeous]

Doesn't that Poliquin article cut both ways? i.e., if you pyramid starting at 15 reps, the II-As will be fatigued, but the II-Bs will still be relatively fresh because the intensity hasn't been too great. When you work up to a heavy set of 4-6, the intensity will be greater, and you'll fatigue the II-Bs as well.

Not that I really care--the fact that pretty much all bodybuilders pyramid is good enough evidence for me to believe it works (as well as the fact that my best gains have come from pyramiding).

[all pro]

Doesn't that Poliquin article cut both ways? i.e., if you pyramid starting at 15 reps, the II-As will be fatigued, but the II-Bs will still be relatively fresh because the intensity hasn't been too great. When you work up to a heavy set of 4-6, the intensity will be greater, and you'll fatigue the II-Bs as well.

Not that I really care--the fact that pretty much all bodybuilders pyramid is good enough evidence for me to believe it works (as well as the fact that my best gains have come from pyramiding).

No because 2X and 2Ds will be working toward the end of each lite-medium set if the weight is heavy enough and you've done enough reps. They don't recover fast enough to put them to work once you've fatigued them and that's what Poliquin is telling you.

[Orlando1234977]

All Pro must = Alzheimer's



I'm giving him an excuse for posting some of the dumbest logic ever to grace bb.com.


And that's saying a lot.


Also, Using Defiant's post to win a retarded argument that isn't even being used properly makes it all the more laughable.

Bodybuilders DO pyramid and this IS NOT the same as pre-exhaust.

Not that I really care--the fact that pretty much all bodybuilders pyramid is good enough evidence for me to believe it works (as well as the fact that my best gains have come from pyramiding).

^^^^^
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