Would you support a New "Aesthetic" Divison in the IFBB

[Alcibiades1212]

I was looking at some pics of my favorite physiques in bodybuilding over the last 20 years, Shawn Ray, Lee Labrada, Milos Sercev, Flex Wheeler, Francis Benfatto, etc and I noticed that its shame that some BBers with amazing proportion, lines, symmetry and aesthetic development don't get the official recognition they deserve.

Shawn Ray comes immediately to mind. He was as close to perfection in balance, proportion and symmetry as there has ever been in the last 20 years. I realize he did have a lot of success in the IFBB but I would have liked to have seen him recognized with an ultimate title celebrating that kind of excellence.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy watching the mass monsters as much as anyone. And that's what the Mr. Olympia contest is geared for. Mass and conditioning, with good balance and proportion, BUT MASS and Conditioning above all. And there is nothing wrong with that. Its great to see how big and conditioned these guys can get while still having good to decent balance and proportion.

Right or Wrong that's what has become the Olympia standard and that's great there's nothing wrong with that. I'm a big fan of the crazy mass of guys like Jay, Ronnie, Kai etc. There was the odd exception with Dexter, but Mass is king at the O and has been since 1992

But its seems unfair to have to match guys like Shawn Ray with guys like Dorian and Ronnie when they are basically playing at two separate "games". Its like mixing soccer and rugby players, similar games but very very different.

It would be great if they could come up with a new show in addition to the Mr. O where its all about aesthetics with mass playing an important but secondary role.
A place where guys with body types like:
Shawn Ray
Francis Benfatto
Flex Wheeler
Silvio Samuel
Hide

Could compete for an overrall title and recognition for the standards that they are focusing on and excelling in.

They could call it the Mr. Valhalla or Mr. Apollonian or something. The money wouldn't be as big as the O, but those guys could still compete at the O. It'd be great to see a Mr. Aesthetic winner going head to head with a Mass Monster reigning Mr. O on the same stage. And then no one can ever say that aesthetics never got its due which is what you hear in interviews from guys like Ray and Wheeler who know they reached an unparalleled standard in aesthetics and never got official recognition for it.

I think it'd be a worthwhile idea.

[OtisBDriftwood]

[xGaffner]

No because that is disrespectful to the modern day Olympia competitors saying they aren't aesthetic when a lot of them are. You're an idiot for thinking there isn't aesthetic bodybuilders in the Olympia these days (You even went as far as to say that Ronnie wasn't aesthetic. Look at him in 98/99 youjustwentfullretard.jpg) The thing is, a lot of bodybuilders in the Olympia these days are as aesthetic, just NOT AS aesthetic as bodybuilders from the past, which is what you should have said.

[bartosh]

aesthetics pretty much is a bodybuilder with good muscle bellies that doesn't have the size of a current day pro. It's just a matter of perspective. I think Centopani and Heath will be the the most aesthetic bodybuilders ever in 5-8 years when they have even MORE mass.

[Alcibiades1212]

No because that is disrespectful to the modern day Olympia competitors saying they aren't aesthetic when a lot of them are. You're an idiot for thinking there isn't aesthetic bodybuilders in the Olympia these days (You even went as far as to say that Ronnie wasn't aesthetic. Look at him in 98/99 youjustwentfullretard.jpg) The thing is, a lot of bodybuilders in the Olympia these days are as aesthetic, just NOT AS aesthetic as bodybuilders from the past, which is what you should have said.

Huh?

"You're an idiot for thinking there isn't aesthetic bodybuilders in the Olympia these days You even went as far as to say that Ronnie wasn't aesthetic."

I never said anything like that. Ronnie was massive with the greatest mass, development and proportions ratio ever on the Mr. O stage. I said it was unfair to guys like Shawn Ray who focused on lines, symmetry and proportion to have to be judged in a contest where the standards are more focused toward Mass with proportion.

I don't believe your reading comprehension is that bad and the fact that you're super red means that your out of contest characterizations of my post are a troll. But thanks for your input. I'm sure it was time well spent for you.

[Pump Freak 86]

No.

[Alcibiades1212]

No.

Simple and honest enough, Thanks.

[Absurdist]

They tried it with 202 class. We all know how that ended...

Just watch other "natural" federations for aesthetic physiques as they don't abuse drugs.

[Alcibiades1212]

They tried it with 202 class. We all know how that ended...

Just watch other "natural" federations for aesthetic physiques as they don't abuse drugs.

That's a good point. But even I think 202 is too small. At 202 guys like Shawn Ray or Silvio Samuel would have had trouble or been hesitant to drop 10 or 15 pounds of muscle to get down to that weight. I like the fact that they are going to 212. In fact I wish they had made it 215 or 219.

I'd just like to see be taken out from under the open Mr. Olympia's shadow and given its own legacy and tradition. Basically being the 202 Mr O champ is like being the Mr. O Jr. Champ. A name change would go far in establishing its own brand and legitimacy.

Being Natty or not doesn't matter to me. But I think it'd be close to impossible to look like Lee Labrada, Frank Zane or Shawn Ray as a Natty and I hold those three up as examples of the ideal aesthetic.

[RC2008]

No. Unless they were to crack out measuring tapes as part of the judging criteria. If you're gonna do something, do it right.

[Hardbody316]

wtf is this shi*? there are plenty of natural shows to go watch..people watch the IFBB pros because they are complete freakshows and thats what people wanna see freakshows

[TrainOfThought]

They tried it with 202 class. We all know how that ended...

Just watch other "natural" federations for aesthetic physiques as they don't abuse drugs.

Yes but the 202 rocks fellas who are 5'2 and so on. It would have to made a height/weight ratio categorie

[Rsardinia]

There was a classical division at the Arnold this year I think or it was at least proposed for the future. They had a whole list of max weights for body heights you could have in order to try and keep classical lines and shape. It was a nice idea but it basically was a natural bodybuilding show lol.

The 6'2 range tho was a tad big and actually gave me motivation for what weight to get to but I know Tommy Jeffers said he was right at the max weight for his height (5'10) and hes an IFPA pro.

http://www.ifbb.com/page_report.php?id=80

https://www.********.com/note.php?no...50095025697753

http://arnoldamateur.com/wp-content/...orm-2011-2.pdf

*The weight/height limits tolerance of the Men’s Classic has the following criteria:

Height Bodyweight limit
Up to and incl 168 cm Height -100
Over 168 cm Up to and incl 171 cm (Height -100) + 2 kg
Over 171 cm Up to and incl 175 cm (Height -100) + 4 kg
Over 175 cm Up to and incl 180 cm (Height -100) + 6 kg
Over 180 cm Up to and incl 190 cm (Height -100) + 8 kg
Over 190cm Up to and incl 198 cm (Height -100) + 9 kg
Over 198 cm (Height -100) + 10 kg

[Absurdist]

That's a good point. But even I think 202 would too small. At 202 guys like Shawn Ray or Silvio Samuel would have had trouble or been hesitant to drop 10 or 15 pounds of muscle to get down to that weight. I like the fact that they are going to 212. In fact I wish they had made it 215.

I'd just like to see be taken out from under the open Mr. Olympia's shadow and given its own legacy and tradition. Basically being the 202 Mr O champ is like being the Mr. O Jr. Champ. A name change would go far in establishing its own brand and legitimacy.

Yeah but it showed that even at a set weight of 202 mass won over aesthetics (English beating Henry). They will just deplete themselves and carb load to come 20lbs heavier so it more aout the judging criteria than creating separate classes. I don't really see that happening as there isn't really a market for it.

[Alcibiades1212]

There was a classical division at the Arnold this year I think or it was at least proposed for the future. They had a whole list of max weights for body heights you could have in order to try and keep classical lines and shape. It was a nice idea but it basically was a natural bodybuilding show lol.

The 6'2 range tho was a tad big and actually gave me motivation for what weight to get to but I know Tommy Jeffers said he was right at the max weight for his height (5'10) and hes an IFPA pro.

*The weight/height limits tolerance of the Men’s Classic has the following criteria:

Height Bodyweight limit
Up to and incl 168 cm Height -100
Over 168 cm Up to and incl 171 cm (Height -100) + 2 kg
Over 171 cm Up to and incl 175 cm (Height -100) + 4 kg
Over 175 cm Up to and incl 180 cm (Height -100) + 6 kg
Over 180 cm Up to and incl 190 cm (Height -100) + 8 kg
Over 190cm Up to and incl 198 cm (Height -100) + 9 kg
Over 198 cm (Height -100) + 10 kg

Sounds awesome and just what I was talking about. Definitely gonna check that out.

[Tsesmatas]

What is aesthetic is completely up to you, nobody else. It's a state of mind.

People annoyingly confuse somebody looking "aesthetic" with them being something like "lean", or "sleek" or "well proportioned"

Point is the whole idea is stupid. Ronnie at one point was the most "aesthetic" bodybuilder because he not only was the biggest but was still tall and had a great X frame

[TrainOfThought]

There was a classical division at the Arnold this year I think or it was at least proposed for the future. They had a whole list of max weights for body heights you could have in order to try and keep classical lines and shape. It was a nice idea but it basically was a natural bodybuilding show lol.

The 6'2 range tho was a tad big and actually gave me motivation for what weight to get to but I know Tommy Jeffers said he was right at the max weight for his height (5'10) and hes an IFPA pro.

http://www.ifbb.com/page_report.php?id=80

https://www.********.com/note.php?no...50095025697753

http://arnoldamateur.com/wp-content/...orm-2011-2.pdf

*The weight/height limits tolerance of the Men’s Classic has the following criteria:

Height Bodyweight limit
Up to and incl 168 cm Height -100
Over 168 cm Up to and incl 171 cm (Height -100) + 2 kg
Over 171 cm Up to and incl 175 cm (Height -100) + 4 kg
Over 175 cm Up to and incl 180 cm (Height -100) + 6 kg
Over 180 cm Up to and incl 190 cm (Height -100) + 8 kg
Over 190cm Up to and incl 198 cm (Height -100) + 9 kg
Over 198 cm (Height -100) + 10 kg

Seriously thinking about doing this comp next year

Think my math is correct. 6'1 = 185 cm -100 = 85+8 kg =93 kg = 205 pounds

[Rsardinia]

Seriously thinking about doing this comp next year

Think my math is correct. 6'1 = 185 cm -100 = 85+8 kg =93 kg = 205 pounds

derp

[Delirium1337]

Seriously thinking about doing this comp next year

Think my math is correct. 6'1 = 185 cm -100 = 85+8 kg =93 kg = 205 pounds

problem with that is that many people will weight in completely depleted and than just before competition load lot of water and whatever and will be lot heavier than what they are supposed to weight unless there is some rule against that


back on topic -

many people say that flex is aesthetic - for me its opposite - he is freakish
for me ronnie is more aestethic

[Absurdist]

Well when I google 72" in cm (6'2) that returns this 72 inches = 182.88 centimeters

So rounding up 183cm - 100 = 83 + 8kg = 91kg = 200.620659 pounds

So it definitely sounds doable for your physique and mine as well. You'd be looking at the high 190s at your height. I always wanted 200+ on stage with proper conditioning so that's my goal.

72 inches is 6ft, not 6'2. That's 74 inches.

[Alcibiades1212]

problem with that is that many people will weight in completely depleted and than just before competition load lot of water and whatever and will be lot heavier than what they are supposed to weight unless there is some rule against that


back on topic -

many people say that flex is aesthetic - for me its opposite - he is freakish
for me ronnie is more aestethic

"many people say that flex is aesthetic - for me its opposite - he is freakish"

I'm respectfully interested in why you see it that way

[TrainOfThought]

Well when I google 72" in cm (6'2) that returns this 72 inches = 182.88 centimeters

So rounding up 183cm - 100 = 83 + 8kg = 91kg = 200.620659 pounds

So it definitely sounds doable for your physique and mine as well. You'd be looking at the high 190s at your height. I always wanted 200+ on stage with proper conditioning so that's my goal.

hmmm, pretty sure 6'2 = more around 188 cm. Think u can be a lil heavier than what you think

[___]

it´s not like "let´s create a new ultra-aesthetic division, and there will be lots of Shawn Rays and Flex Whellers competing"...
guys like them simply doesn´t exit.. it´s like 1 in a billion.. if existed i am sure they would be doing very well.. winning shows and etc..

[Rsardinia]

72 inches is 6ft, not 6'2. That's 74 inches.

Woopsies completely blanked lol. Thanks for the fix.

[Zigurd]

Yes I would.

[Delirium1337]

"many people say that flex is aesthetic - for me its opposite - he is freakish"

I'm respectfully interested in why you see it that way

well first off thanks for respecting my point of view

reason i dont like him as much as some other people is that he used too much oil and everything started to "pop out" too much








when i look at some of those pictures and video i forget about "pre oil" flex and even than i didnt think his physique is that aesthetic i cant explain it but i like more physiques like dorian yates which i consider more aestethic

[XClassic10]

well first off thanks for respecting my point of view

reason i dont like him as much as some other people is that he used too much oil and everything started to "pop out" too much


when i look at some of those pictures and video i forget about "pre oil" flex and even than i didnt think his physique is that aesthetic i cant explain it but i like more physiques like dorian yates which i consider more aestethic

I respect your opinion but you're the only person I've ever seen on these boards to consider dorian more aesthetic than flex.

[buckeye185]

the minute the IFBB has an "aesthetic" division is the minute i stop following the IFBB

[tryin2gethuge10]

Nope. If you don't like the way bodybuilders look don't follow it. Simple enough.

[TLF84]

i would support it 100% if it brought physiques like shawn ray etc back in the game and not butched up physiques like kevin english