What is the agonist muscle during eccentric movment of squat?

[BigBoLuke93]

I watched the video about the bench press and he states that the "pulling" on the eccentric is like you're trying to pull the bar apart on the way down, which engages the lats. I just tried it on my bench and I can definately feel how it contracts the lats and helps with a better lift when you "pull" the bar down.

But I wonder how you would replicate this type of "pulling" in a squat? The only thing I can think of is how people tell you to try and spread the floor apart with your feet, but I have heard that moreso for the concentric part of the lift, rather than the eccentric.

[Greco-Roman]

Pulling like that is completely different, it's pulling a direction separate than gravity. It would only help then for balance, or because when muscles contract around others, they can perform better.

[BigBoLuke93]

Pulling like that is completely different, it's pulling a direction separate than gravity. It would only help then for balance, or because when muscles contract around others, they can perform better.

Yeah I realize that they are different, that's why I put the " " around pulling to try and illustrate that point. I know you aren't literally pulling the bar straight down because you are correct about the gravity thing, but you are still giving a pulling force on the bar when you lower by "pulling it apart" which engages the lats.

But I still don't really understand how you would replicate it with squats.
Chazzy, do you have an answer for the squats "pulling" question I asked? Because this stuff is pretty interesting.

[KeeronMac]

I watched the video about the bench press and he states that the "pulling" on the eccentric is like you're trying to pull the bar apart on the way down, which engages the lats. I just tried it on my bench and I can definately feel how it contracts the lats and helps with a better lift when you "pull" the bar down.

K try this now, replicate the above movement, i.e. pulling the bar apart. Then try retracting your shoulder blades as if you were benching. Engages the lats too?? I always pull my shoulder blades together when i bench. I fear the loose usage of the word "pull" has us a tad argumentative

Summing it up:
Pulling bar against gravity =
Pulling bar "apart"/ retracting shoulder blades =

[BigBoLuke93]

K try this now, replicate the above movement, i.e. pulling the bar apart. Then try retracting your shoulder blades as if you were benching. Engages the lats too?? I always pull my shoulder blades together when i bench. I fear the loose usage of the word "pull" has us a tad argumentative

Summing it up:
Pulling bar against gravity =
Pulling bar "apart"/ retracting shoulder blades =

Yeah I definately agree with your summary of the argument, as you don't want to pull the bar with gravity straight down.

But how would the second "pulling" work for squat? Since that what this thread/ argument was originally about?

[KeeronMac]

But how would the second "pulling" work for squat? Since that what this thread/ argument was originally about?

Actually OP just wanted to know the prime mover in the downward phase of the squat, I suggested quads??

Don't know how you would pull?? Squeeze the glutes hard throughout ROM??

I tried that, not good lol

[chazzy1864]

Yeah I realize that they are different, that's why I put the " " around pulling to try and illustrate that point. I know you aren't literally pulling the bar straight down because you are correct about the gravity thing, but you are still giving a pulling force on the bar when you lower by "pulling it apart" which engages the lats.

But I still don't really understand how you would replicate it with squats.
Chazzy, do you have an answer for the squats "pulling" question I asked? Because this stuff is pretty interesting.

I've heard others talk about actively pulling down as you squat, or similar, and it helps to engage your hamstrings. If you just drop and let gravity do eveyrthing and fight the descent, it sees primarily just quads are engaged.

It is more of a mental thing and helps to actively engage more muscles to make firing out of the hole better.

K try this now, replicate the above movement, i.e. pulling the bar apart. Then try retracting your shoulder blades as if you were benching. Engages the lats too?? I always pull my shoulder blades together when i bench. I fear the loose usage of the word "pull" has us a tad argumentative

Summing it up:
Pulling bar against gravity =
Pulling bar "apart"/ retracting shoulder blades =

To say, I always retracted my shoulder blades and kept them tight throughout, pulling the bar down as I've focused on my bench form, has effected my lift more.

[KeeronMac]

Next gym session and I will try the squats, I am open minded after all.

Would it be better with a heavy weight to feel it more??

[sailingpece]

Squats are more complicated than just quads and hamstrings because most of the muscles involved cross two joints:
If you actively descend, the hamstrings are recruited momentarily, then the quads eccentrically contract.
Past parallel the quads are in disadvantaged position, while the hip extensors are in an advantaged position, so the glutes are in eccentric contraction momentarily...then you begin to ascend which follows the exact same steps above in reverse except that the muscles contract concentrically.

So to answer your question, it depends...if you actively descend then the hamstrings are recruited momentarily due to the stretch reflex on the hip end of the hamstring group. If you slowly descend then there is very little hamstring recruitment. In any case, the quads are the prime movers at any point during the movement, ATG or parallel doesn't matter.

On a side note, I had a grade 2 hamstring tear couple of weeks ago, went into the gym 3 days later and PRed on my squat, had excellent form too.

[KeeronMac]

In any case, the quads are the prime movers at any point during the movement, ATG or parallel doesn't matter.

Thank you

[chazzy1864]

Next gym session and I will try the squats, I am open minded after all.

Would it be better with a heavy weight to feel it more??

Heavy enough, but controllable. Primarily it is just an MMC thing and more "imagining" pulling. As we all know, it isn't actually pulling a free-falling weight.

[Greco-Roman]

Interesting thread was interesting.

[jamezgt]

Quadriceps, Glutes and Hamstrings.

They're all active whether it's in the concentric/eccentric phase.

[unity]

Think about the movement involved. When the squat is going up, it is a combination of knee and hip extension. When the squat is going down, it is a combination of knee and hip flexion.

Also, the eccentric phase of a biceps curl involves elbow extension.... fill in the blanks.

thanks BD, really opened my eyes on this one. would rep but:

1) must rep others first
2) it wouldn't boost you much anyway

to others in the thread that are in doubt, just think about how different it feels during the concentric and eccentric parts of the movement. i can feel the difference. i never thought much about it before but it makes total sense to me.

[chazzy1864]

Interesting thread was interesting.

thanks BD, really opened my eyes on this one. would rep but:

1) must rep others first
2) it wouldn't boost you much anyway

to others in the thread that are in doubt, just think about how different it feels during the concentric and eccentric parts of the movement. i can feel the difference. i never thought much about it before but it makes total sense to me.

The bad thing, is all of this discussion started because BD was trying to troll people, and somehow it turned into a real discussion. This section can surprise us all.

[BombDonald]

thanks BD, really opened my eyes on this one. would rep but:

1) must rep others first
2) it wouldn't boost you much anyway

to others in the thread that are in doubt, just think about how different it feels during the concentric and eccentric parts of the movement. i can feel the difference. i never thought much about it before but it makes total sense to me.

The bad thing, is all of this discussion started because BD was trying to troll people, and somehow it turned into a real discussion. This section can surprise us all.

My job is done here.

[ryanseal]

Think about the movement involved. When the squat is going up, it is a combination of knee and hip extension. When the squat is going down, it is a combination of knee and hip flexion.

Also, the eccentric phase of a biceps curl involves elbow extension.... fill in the blanks.

the eccentric phase of a bicep curl is elbow flexion. gravity is pulling the force downwards, while you are resisting

What is the agonist during the eccentric phase of the bicep curl? still the biceps, so the flexors are still lowering the movement. extensors would be pushing force away from gravity
Just as during squats, during the eccentric phase - the hip flexors are working, but its to help the agonist (glutes) to lengthen to control the weight coming down. you would be working your hip extensors.