PT should be an apprenticeship

[KyleAaron]

Some statistics for thought, showing why I think we need an apprenticeship system for PT.

I have now worked at 4 different gyms, and applied for jobs or had a good chat with the managers of 8 more gyms. So I've got a bit of an idea of how things are done, this is subject to change of course as I learn more.

The typical fitness centre - gym plus group classes plus pool, etc - has at least 1 trainer for every 200 members, though about 8 trainers is the minimum you can get away with if you want the gym to be staffed all the time. A small gym has 1,000 members, a big gym 4,000.

On average around 3% of gym members are interested in having personal training. It can be as low as 0.5% if the trainers are real slugs, and as high as 5% if the gym has a few really competent and ambitious PTs. But 3% is the average. Thus, 30 PT clients for every 1,000 members.

Most trainers working as general gym instructors won't have the opportunity to take an individual from being a complete beginner to achieving their goals - whatever that goal is. That's simply because someone joins up, does the first appointments, and usually doesn't come regularly, or if they do come regularly, they'll come at some other time the trainer is working, and not necessarily have that trainer check on their progress.

So the only way to see if the trainer's methods really work is for them to get PT clients, those are the only people you can be sure will mostly do what you tell them over some months.

Now, of all the PTs in a gym, you usually find that 2-4 of the 8-20 are doing half the total sessions with half the total clients in the gym, they'll usually have 8-20 clients each, basically 1hr training each client weekly, so 8-20hr a week PT, and 400-1,000hr annually.

The other 6-16 trainers are doing the other half, and have 0-3 clients each, thus doing 0-150hr PT annually.

Again, they're doing lots of hours of general gym work and should be learning something from that, but most trainers will be getting under 100hr a year of taking an individual from beginning to reaching their goals, that is less than 100hr of seeing if their training philosophy actually works.

It's said that it takes something like 2,000hr of mindful practice to become a competent practitioner of it, 4,000hr is enough you can teach others, and 10,000hr for mastery. Most trainers will never become competent, they don't have enough experience, or clients to let them get that experience.

Much the same applies for lots of jobs, I know. But this is the one I'm interested in. So I think we need some sort of apprenticeship system for trainers and coaches, mentors and so on. It works for carpenters, electricians, plumbers - practical skills need practice. We need to put the hours in to find out if our ideas actually work. Because frankly most of us have no clue.

[popupwindow]

Interesting idea. I don't think corporate gyms have the financial incentive to have successful PTs ironically, as they make large profits by locking bad 20 year old trainers into 12 month contracts and charging them rent, despite having no clients. This is partly the trainers fault, and partly the gyms fault. They can hire a huge amount because of the high turnover, better trainers would mean lower turnover and less rent, so they have no incentive to do it.

I do think better quality trainers is good thing, and I like the apprenticeship idea, but I think it would have to come from PTs, rather than from top down. However, if management doesn't approve, it probably wouldn't work. I know of PT studios and smaller places using internships, Cressey's place, Mike Robertson's place, Boyle's place, all of the internet marketing gurus seem to do them.

So if they can't be done in mainstream gyms I think the initiative will need to come from individual trainers to do the next best thing by seeking out fellow trainers to discuss methods, self-educating, discussing stuff on forums like these, going to seminars and *****, buying books and DVDs and always looking to improve, not just doing a short cert and then never learning more or getting better.

[BEhave]

I agree. Personal training is pretty unregulated

[liftingson]

I agree. Personal training is pretty unregulated

I agree with this, I've had some odd info from PTs in the past.

[VAnick]

I'd be interested in the sources you used for your posted statistics, including your hours to requisite proficiency.

[aaronrogant]

Yes, this is a good idea - but it will never happen. Gyms are all about profit - not results. Until this changes the PT industry will remain what it is, a profit based cash cow where unqualified idiots can still generate revenue for the facility even though they are unqualified and potentially dangerous. Plus if you have people doing internships either they need to get paid for being there or have to be there less because they have to have another job. This is a loss for the gym and cuts into their profits.

It would be interesting to find out where this started, since something like physio requires a 4 year post grad degree but to become a trainer requires 24 hours of sitting in a classroom and taking a multiple choice exam.

The company I work for now has pretty strict hiring requirements and is pretty good at making sure clients are appropriately fit with the trainer - but we don't have enough trainers. You also make more money per hour based on experience, number of *****, etc but the client pays the same amount. So we actually have a backlog of people who have bought packages and want a trainer - but don't want or can't have an unqualified person. It is a bit of a problem.

[theguitarman128]

Some statistics for thought, showing why I think we need an apprenticeship system for PT.

I have now worked at 4 different gyms, and applied for jobs or had a good chat with the managers of 8 more gyms. So I've got a bit of an idea of how things are done, this is subject to change of course as I learn more.

The typical fitness centre - gym plus group classes plus pool, etc - has at least 1 trainer for every 200 members, though about 8 trainers is the minimum you can get away with if you want the gym to be staffed all the time. A small gym has 1,000 members, a big gym 4,000.

On average around 3% of gym members are interested in having personal training. It can be as low as 0.5% if the trainers are real slugs, and as high as 5% if the gym has a few really competent and ambitious PTs. But 3% is the average. Thus, 30 PT clients for every 1,000 members.

Most trainers working as general gym instructors won't have the opportunity to take an individual from being a complete beginner to achieving their goals - whatever that goal is. That's simply because someone joins up, does the first appointments, and usually doesn't come regularly, or if they do come regularly, they'll come at some other time the trainer is working, and not necessarily have that trainer check on their progress.

So the only way to see if the trainer's methods really work is for them to get PT clients, those are the only people you can be sure will mostly do what you tell them over some months.

Now, of all the PTs in a gym, you usually find that 2-4 of the 8-20 are doing half the total sessions with half the total clients in the gym, they'll usually have 8-20 clients each, basically 1hr training each client weekly, so 8-20hr a week PT, and 400-1,000hr annually.

The other 6-16 trainers are doing the other half, and have 0-3 clients each, thus doing 0-150hr PT annually.

Again, they're doing lots of hours of general gym work and should be learning something from that, but most trainers will be getting under 100hr a year of taking an individual from beginning to reaching their goals, that is less than 100hr of seeing if their training philosophy actually works.

It's said that it takes something like 2,000hr of mindful practice to become a competent practitioner of it, 4,000hr is enough you can teach others, and 10,000hr for mastery. Most trainers will never become competent, they don't have enough experience, or clients to let them get that experience.

Much the same applies for lots of jobs, I know. But this is the one I'm interested in. So I think we need some sort of apprenticeship system for trainers and coaches, mentors and so on. It works for carpenters, electricians, plumbers - practical skills need practice. We need to put the hours in to find out if our ideas actually work. Because frankly most of us have no clue.

I TOTALLY agree. I'm actually getting my certification now and I HAVE learned a good bit about the body and nutrition, but I don't feel like I have the knowledge necessary to train say a 45 year old man with type two diabetes (i'm just spitballing here btw). My plan though is to get my certification, and the actually work with a "legit" PT to get the in house and just general knowledge that I know i'm lacking. Seems like the best way for me to go about it. For know I just try to keep asking questions and doing research.

[BC02]

lol. lets make working at mcdonalds an apprenticeship too while we are at it

[NDurkee]

This topic applies to most sales jobs imo. Probably because we are our own bosses for the most part.

2,000 hard worked hours is a good rule of thumb to consider that a person has good competent abilities inhabited in their head for a specific field. I've read those hourly stats before in books/articles about success, and from people who I consider to be successful individuals. It makes sense.

I'm a newb to PT. Just got an internship to a local gym (Brick Bodies [in MD]) yesterday. I'm still studying for NASM, and I feel it will be best to learn by seeing how what I'm reading is implied in real scenarios. Internships at this gym last from 1-4 weeks. After that, a PT (who has never been a trainer before) still has to work at the gym for up to 3 months to learn the ropes before working with clients on their own. I plan to have a ton questions about everything and talk to other trainers about hypothetical situations as well as witnessed situations. Brick Bodies' formula sounds similar to an apprenticeship to me, and I feel satisfied with the way they go about grooming PTs.

[aaronrogant]

lol. lets make working at mcdonalds an apprenticeship too while we are at it

Good to see you consider your profession equivalent to working at Mcdonalds. Why do you even post here?

[LiftHeavy85]

lol. lets make working at mcdonalds an apprenticeship too while we are at it

yes because the knowledge needed to become a efficient trainer is equal to working the menu at mcdonalds.

[BC02]

yes because the knowledge needed to become a efficient trainer is equal to working the menu at mcdonalds.

true

[ger2oo5]

Some statistics for thought, showing why I think we need an apprenticeship system for PT.

I have now worked at 4 different gyms, and applied for jobs or had a good chat with the managers of 8 more gyms. So I've got a bit of an idea of how things are done, this is subject to change of course as I learn more.

The typical fitness centre - gym plus group classes plus pool, etc - has at least 1 trainer for every 200 members, though about 8 trainers is the minimum you can get away with if you want the gym to be staffed all the time. A small gym has 1,000 members, a big gym 4,000.

On average around 3% of gym members are interested in having personal training. It can be as low as 0.5% if the trainers are real slugs, and as high as 5% if the gym has a few really competent and ambitious PTs. But 3% is the average. Thus, 30 PT clients for every 1,000 members.

Most trainers working as general gym instructors won't have the opportunity to take an individual from being a complete beginner to achieving their goals - whatever that goal is. That's simply because someone joins up, does the first appointments, and usually doesn't come regularly, or if they do come regularly, they'll come at some other time the trainer is working, and not necessarily have that trainer check on their progress.

So the only way to see if the trainer's methods really work is for them to get PT clients, those are the only people you can be sure will mostly do what you tell them over some months.

Now, of all the PTs in a gym, you usually find that 2-4 of the 8-20 are doing half the total sessions with half the total clients in the gym, they'll usually have 8-20 clients each, basically 1hr training each client weekly, so 8-20hr a week PT, and 400-1,000hr annually.

The other 6-16 trainers are doing the other half, and have 0-3 clients each, thus doing 0-150hr PT annually.

Again, they're doing lots of hours of general gym work and should be learning something from that, but most trainers will be getting under 100hr a year of taking an individual from beginning to reaching their goals, that is less than 100hr of seeing if their training philosophy actually works.

It's said that it takes something like 2,000hr of mindful practice to become a competent practitioner of it, 4,000hr is enough you can teach others, and 10,000hr for mastery. Most trainers will never become competent, they don't have enough experience, or clients to let them get that experience.

Much the same applies for lots of jobs, I know. But this is the one I'm interested in. So I think we need some sort of apprenticeship system for trainers and coaches, mentors and so on. It works for carpenters, electricians, plumbers - practical skills need practice. We need to put the hours in to find out if our ideas actually work. Because frankly most of us have no clue.

Before an apprentice system is introduced for PT's similar to that of "carpenters, electricians, plumbers", the professional development opportunties, financial reward and chance of social mobility need to be similar to that of other blue collar trades. In the Uk, this is not the case IMO. Obviously, Your down under, but this is the problem with your idea from a UK perspective IMO.

Anyone else in the UK wish to comment? Probably not, but hey, thats my opinion anyway

[KyleAaron]

Ignore BC02 - I mean, actually put him on your ignore list. He's a Bitter Non-Trainer, aka a BiNT. No longer a trainer because he was unsuccessful at it - and now bitter about it. So forget him.

ger2oo5, I think you're mixing cause and effect. PT isn't unprofessional because it lacks these opportunities, it lacks these opportunities because it's unprofessional. If we made it into an apprenticeship system, then professional development opportunties, financial reward and chance of social mobility would emerge. It'd take years, of course, but it'd happen.

[JLS81]

Well thought out post Kyle. I now know why Mark Ripptoe mentions that as trainers the "more time under the bar" the better qualified one is to help assist others on their quest for personal fitness and health. Your stats point out that nothing substitutes time well spent grunting out gut busting program after gut busting program. In short this might be where Rip is coming from in the nuts and bolts trade of training.

[NDurkee]

Maybe we can start something on this forum.. Say like.. Every week someone makes up like 3 hypothetical clients with a fair amount of background information. Maybe one has had one has leg surgery a few years ago and works in an office all day or one is a 60 year old fighting obesity and has high blood pressure. It would really help me as a new PT to design programs and have discussions with good trainers about why a program design should be structured a specific way for a client. Heck on the next week the clients can be the same and we can write what progressions/regressions need to be worked into the design.

Any thoughts?

[ger2oo5]

ger2oo5, I think you're mixing cause and effect. PT isn't unprofessional because it lacks these opportunities, it lacks these opportunities because it's unprofessional. If we made it into an apprenticeship system, then professional development opportunties, financial reward and chance of social mobility would emerge. It'd take years, of course, but it'd happen.

But Kyle, in the Uk there is already what i would call an apprentice system in place for PT's, its just not called an apprenticeship. Its called National Vocational Qualifications (NVQ's) http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Educatio...ed/DG_10039029 and is supposedly based upon "...competence-based qualifications: this means you learn practical, work-related tasks designed to help you develop the skills and knowledge to do a job effectively." but while also studying, taking relevant exams etc.

Most ppl i know have got into the fitness industry through this route. Guess what? Most are incompetent and incapable in at least one discipline regarding PTing. IMAO, PTing is to wide a subject and non specific in terms of qualifications awarded.

Example:

I feel i am competent to advise ppl on losing/gaining weight. It is my hobby, my passion and it interests me no end. Ive lifted weights for a long time, studied nutrition, trained for C.V fitness and ive become familar with techniques which work and, unfortunately, techniques which dont work. Im also interested enough to refer to research and to apply scientifically sound justification for my exercise/nutritional prescription on an individual basis (btw, i live in the uk, no cert is needed to legally give nutritonal advice, in case anyones wondering lol!)

However, i am not best clued up on training clients with endurance goals (running marathons, etc). Of course, i have a good insight into the physiology behind endurance exercise (BSc hons), but ive never run a marathon nor do i ever intend to. Im just not passionate about it. Therefore, i actually refuse clients with goals based specifically on endurance.

Ive been slated for this in the past by employers and by my peers. This is because anyone who is REPS level 3 is automatically assumed to be capable of training any client. This makes us as PT's think "well, if i refuse this client they and everyone else will think i dont know want im doing, period". Obviously, this is not the case. The case is infact that the profesional development that i "specifically" sought (and was the deciding factor in me becoming a PT to begin with) and the skills i specifically learnt and am most clued up about do not best meet the needs of that particular client with those particular goals.

I would suggest more specified qualifications based upon:

Weight Training: Power Lifting/Body Building (tempted to make these seperate tbh)
Endurance Training
Fat Loss: Diet/C.V methods of
Exercise & chronic health conditons

In addition to the current (notice how unspecific PTing is?):

* Level 2 Aqua/Water Based Exercise
* Level 2 Gym Instruction
* Level 2 Group Exercise to Music
* Level 2 Physical Activity for Children
* Level 3 Exercise Movement Dance Partnership Teachers (EMDP)
* Level 3 Exercise Referrals
* Level 3 Personal Training
* Level 3 Pilates
* Level 3 Yoga
* Level 4 Specialist Exercise Instructors

To summarise, apprenticeships already exist in the UK. It is the specificity of the qualifications which need to be changed.

[KyleAaron]

JLS, time under the bar is important, yes. But it need not be barbell training specifically. A trainer or coach should have SOME kind of background in physical training, whether it be gym time, sports, martial arts or whatever.

That said, there's a big difference between doing something well and coaching it well. One can be good at the one and poor at the other, it's very common. There are certainly aspects of natural talent and background to this, but most of it is simply practicing those skills.

In mentioning hours of training, we're talking about "mindful practice." That is, working hard and thinking about what you're doing. You don't have to be a trainer/coach to notice the difference in results people get in the gym - and I don't mean simply body composition changes, but improvements in the various aspects of fitness, the mastery of the movements, etc. We all know people who've come to the gym for years and have no clue. They weren't mindful, trying to improve, listening to their bodies. One of the key things is whether the person has a routine and keeps a journal, whether their practice is mindful.

Likewise with being a trainer/coach. On industry websites I've seen trainers boast of "I've trained 2,500 people over 12 years." I would suggest that 200 people a year, it's probably not individual clients, but groups. I know that if I have six clients in a row in a morning, people after the 2nd or 3rd are going to be getting much the same workout. The 6th client isn't getting as personalised a workout as the 1st one did, and certainly I'm not learning as much from training them - I can't be as "mindful". So if you're training 200 people a year, how much are you learning about training individuals?

Thus, mere hours or years as a trainer don't necessarily reflect learning.

NDurkee, that'd turn this place into just like PT school Perhaps it's simply that most of the hypotheticals weren't that good. And a lot of it is communication and empathy, and watching the person move. My writing of this post was interrupted by an appointment with a gym member, 16yo male, 6'6", about 140lbs at most, wants to improve his vertical jump. So, squats, right? Well, on doing a goblet squat, there was a lot of lumbar rounding - tight hamstrings and poor bodily awareness. Not really confident, either. So no barbell for him, first he has to learn the unweighted movement, get better at that, get confident, then maybe we can stick weight on him.

Things like "is 16yo and not confident, has lumbar rounding on squatting" just don't appear in these hypotheticals. But that stuff is the meat of our job, really.

[paz99]

Why don't you come over to the U.K?

Good trainer over here makes 40k which is 70k U.S.

The gym I am at has 8000 members, in fact personal training is still quite new compared to the states. The accent alone will get you a lot of clients, in fact we could swap jobs for a week. What do you say?

[BC02]

Before an apprentice system is introduced for PT's similar to that of "carpenters, electricians, plumbers", the professional development opportunties, financial reward and chance of social mobility need to be similar to that of other blue collar trades. In the Uk, this is not the case IMO. Obviously, Your down under, but this is the problem with your idea from a UK perspective IMO.

Anyone else in the UK wish to comment? Probably not, but hey, thats my opinion anyway

agreed. employers dont value the actual training session but just the sale. cant agree more your statement about financial award needing to be similar to other blue collar trades. The rs training business is a joke as it is set up in most cases today.

[KyleAaron]

To summarise, apprenticeships already exist in the UK. It is the specificity of the qualifications which need to be changed.

What you've described isn't an apprenticeship. During an apprenticeship, an apprentice is assigned to or hired by a particular master (experienced & qualified person). A school provides the book-learning, the time with the master provides the practical experience. The apprentice begins by watching simple tasks, then doing simple tasks, then watching complex tasks, then doing complex tasks.

In medieval times, the apprenticeship would end with their becoming a "journeyman", traveling about working; they could not yet take on apprentices themselves, but were practicing their profession - both practicing in the sense of working, and in the sense of learning by working in different places for different customers.

After some years, the journeyman would produce a "masterwork", judged by the masters. If the journeyman's masterwork was considered acceptable, they themselves would then become a master.

This system still exists in many countries, though most dispense with the journeyman phase; nonetheless, some people are still recognised as masters. The system also exists in academia, a PhD is essentially a masterwork.

Of course you don't need a PhD to help people "get fit, lose weight, tone up." But that's where the different levels and specialties come in, as ger2oo5's hinted at. It seems ger may have presented himself negatively, or perhaps underestimated himself. Unless the person has serious health issues, I don't outright reject clients. That's because they're paying for my expertise, I don't have to know everything, I just have to know more than them.

So ger2oo5 no doubt knows more about improving running technique and endurance than most of those who'll come to him asking about it. So long as they realise the extent of his knowledge, that's okay. "I am not the running expert, but I can help you a bit. If you really want a running expert, I can recommend so-and-so." If the person then decides to work with you anyway, that's their right.

Again, I would draw a line when we're talking about health issues. If I fail to improve someone's running speed, they'll survive. If I fail to help someone who's had a stroke, that's much more serious. So even if the stroke victim says, "no, I want you," then I'll still refer them to another trainer.

As an example, I had a husband and wife come to me wanting training. The woman had some knee issues; I know about knee issues. The man had hip issues, specifically rheumatoid arthritis; I don't know about hip issues. So I said I could train the woman but not the man. There's a more experienced trainer with a degree in exercise science, I referred the man to him.

Had there been no other trainer, I would have given it a go, following the simple principle of, "in the absence of medical advice - and you should get medical advice - if the exercise hurts, check technique; if technique is good and it still hurts, try another exercise." And I lay this out to people, most are happy with it. Ironically, admitting where you're ignorant makes them trust you MORE.

The man still asks me for advice, since even though I don't know as much about his specific issue and exercises as the other trainer does, I still know more than him. But only his wife pays for my advice

It's okay for us to be generalists, so long as we know and admit that, and refer people to more specialised trainers when we can.

[BC02]

Ignore BC02 - I mean, actually put him on your ignore list. He's a Bitter Non-Trainer, aka a BiNT. No longer a trainer because he was unsuccessful at it - and now bitter about it. So forget him.

ger2oo5, I think you're mixing cause and effect. PT isn't unprofessional because it lacks these opportunities, it lacks these opportunities because it's unprofessional. If we made it into an apprenticeship system, then professional development opportunties, financial reward and chance of social mobility would emerge. It'd take years, of course, but it'd happen.

when you get results like what I get from clients then you can talk ****. untill then how about you just stfu about me supposedly being "not successful". Got it mate? Dont see you getting once obese 50 yr old clients being able to do walking lunges for sets of 12 with 135 plus. how many fm clients do you have that can do parallell dips for 3x12-15?

[Meatyballs74]

PT is a lot harder sell than a plumber or electrician. When you have no water, you call a plumber. When the job is done, you have water again. It's a pretty simple transaction. With PT, you're only getting a promise with stipulations that you MIGHT actually get something for your money.

From my experience, people generally don't get much for what they spend on PT. In most cases, it has nothing to do with the trainer; the client is unable change their eating and lifestyle habits. I found it very difficult to get clients for more than a few sessions. Of those, most were women or gay guys that wanted my attention for an hour everyday.

Being a trainer at the gym I worked at was about 99% cold sales skill and 1% knowledge of the craft. Image is everything. When I started, I looked like an average joe and didn't sell sh*T, after a few months I got jacked and never had a problem selling since. After I had been beasting the sales charts for a while, I stopped training people altogether. All I did was pitch the PT preso to members and the scrubs trained them.

The gym didn't care if they got good training. Most people don't stick with it long enough to notice anyway. It's all about getting that money ASAP. Get them to spend as much money as you can, as fast as you can and never look back. Thats how you succeed in the PT business.

[BC02]

PT is a lot harder sell than a plumber or electrician. When you have no water, you call a plumber. When the job is done, you have water again. It's a pretty simple transaction. With PT, you're only getting a promise with stipulations that you MIGHT actually get something for your money.

From my experience, people generally don't get much for what they spend on PT. In most cases, it has nothing to do with the trainer; the client is unable change their eating and lifestyle habits. I found it very difficult to get clients for more than a few sessions. Of those, most were women or gay guys that wanted my attention for an hour everyday.

Being a trainer at the gym I worked at was about 99% cold sales skill and 1% knowledge of the craft. Image is everything. When I started, I looked like an average joe and didn't sell sh*T, after a few months I got jacked and never had a problem selling since. After I had been beasting the sales charts for a while, I stopped training people altogether. All I did was pitch the PT preso to members and the scrubs trained them.

The gym didn't care if they got good training. Most people don't stick with it long enough to notice anyway. It's all about getting that money ASAP. Get them to spend as much money as you can, as fast as you can and never look back. Thats how you succeed in the PT business.

good to see you can see the light and arent drinking the koolaid

[SmoothyKing]

It's all about getting that money ASAP. Get them to spend as much money as you can, as fast as you can and never look back. Thats how you succeed in the PT business.

in sales

[KyleAaron]

I'm sorry to hear of your bad experiences, meatyballs74. My own and those of trainers I know are completely different. Gym members don't care what we look like so long as we're clean, and well more than half the clients are long-term - by "long-term" I mean long enough to get some kind of tangible results, 3+ months.

Given our different experiences, we'll naturally have different perceptions of the skills required for a successful career as a PT. When clients hire you for reasons other than your looks and stick with you, your coaching actually matters.

[ger2oo5]

What you've described isn't an apprenticeship. During an apprenticeship, an apprentice is assigned to or hired by a particular master (experienced & qualified person). A school provides the book-learning, the time with the master provides the practical experience. The apprentice begins by watching simple tasks, then doing simple tasks, then watching complex tasks, then doing complex tasks.

In medieval times, the apprenticeship would end with their becoming a "journeyman", traveling about working; they could not yet take on apprentices themselves, but were practicing their profession - both practicing in the sense of working, and in the sense of learning by working in different places for different customers.

After some years, the journeyman would produce a "masterwork", judged by the masters. If the journeyman's masterwork was considered acceptable, they themselves would then become a master.

I would have to strongly disagree with you here Kyle with specific regards to your comment "What you've described isn't an apprenticeship..." (i.e. NVQ not being an apprenticeship). The only difference is terminology as far as i am concerned.

However, lets just be clear as to what an apprenticeship is exactly, from a UK perspective anyway.

"As employees, apprentices earn a wage and work alongside experienced staff to gain job-specific skills. Off the job, usually on a day-release basis, apprentices receive training to work towards nationally recognised qualifications" Quoted from: http://www.apprenticeships.org.uk/Be...he-Basics.aspx

Now lets go back to the Governments description of an NVQ:

"NVQ...is a 'competence-based' qualification: this means you learn practical, work-related tasks designed to help you develop the skills and knowledge to do a job effectively. NVQs are based on national standards for various occupations. The standards say what a competent person in a job could be expected to do. As you progress through the course, you compare your skills and knowledge with these standards as you learn, so you can see what you need to do to meet them." Quoted from: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Educatio...ed/DG_10039029

What is not mentioned in the Governments quote (due to being a general quote, rather than specific) is that specific to PTs (NVQ level 3), Off the job, usually "NOT" on a day-release basis, PT apprentices receive training to work towards nationally recognised qualifications from training providers and includes exams, observational assessement and professional development which is specifically from other more expereinced fitness professionals, employers, other PT's in both the work place and the curricular outside of the work place.

This in effect, is basically a PT apprenticeship, no matter which way it is dressed up

IMO anyway

[Meatyballs74]

in sales

Like I said.... 99% of PT in major gyms is sales. I worked all over the valley and it was the same at every place. They don't give a flying crap if you have a degree, certification, blah blah blah... if you can't sell, you're worthless to them.

[LiftHeavy85]

PT is a lot harder sell than a plumber or electrician. When you have no water, you call a plumber. When the job is done, you have water again. It's a pretty simple transaction. With PT, you're only getting a promise with stipulations that you MIGHT actually get something for your money.

From my experience, people generally don't get much for what they spend on PT. In most cases, it has nothing to do with the trainer; the client is unable change their eating and lifestyle habits. I found it very difficult to get clients for more than a few sessions. Of those, most were women or gay guys that wanted my attention for an hour everyday.

Being a trainer at the gym I worked at was about 99% cold sales skill and 1% knowledge of the craft. Image is everything. When I started, I looked like an average joe and didn't sell sh*T, after a few months I got jacked and never had a problem selling since. After I had been beasting the sales charts for a while, I stopped training people altogether. All I did was pitch the PT preso to members and the scrubs trained them.

The gym didn't care if they got good training. Most people don't stick with it long enough to notice anyway. It's all about getting that money ASAP. Get them to spend as much money as you can, as fast as you can and never look back. Thats how you succeed in the PT business.

I suggest taking your self out of that environment and find a small performance based gym that has people of similar goals. The difference is night and day between the globo gyms that just cater to the masses and the locals that specialize in performance.

[BC02]

like i said.... 99% of pt in major gyms is sales. I worked all over the valley and it was the same at every place. They don't give a flying crap if you have a degree, certification, blah blah blah... If you can't sell, you're worthless to them.

amen. Untill gyms start paying off results and not sales, i cant see how anyone can call pers training a legit business