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  1. #1
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    Front Raises for the Medial Deltoid!

    From http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle....r=bodybuilding

    New Exercise: Front Raises for the Medial Deltoid

    No, I'm not hallucinating. I'm proposing that you do front raises to work the medial deltoid. Now, most people think that front raises are categorically designed only for the front deltoid, but that's not necessarily the case. It all has to do with how the exercise is constructed, or performed. I discovered this one day while testing various exercises on my EMG equipment.

    EMG equipment measures the electrical activity (recruitment) of the muscles. Theoretically, at least, this allows researchers to figure out which fibers are being the most strongly recruited and even which types of fibers (slow twitch or fast twitch) are being selectively recruited.

    Although the activation elicited by front raises on the medial delts wasn't as great as that elicited by side laterals (about 90% of it), it still provided a greater stimulus than that afforded by pressing movements.

    Now, given all I've said about arm positioning, angles of recruitment, and EMG readings, let's construct a front raise exercise that recruits the medial deltoid.

    We know that the greatest resistance is expressed from an arm that's parallel to the ground and that the start of the exercise is the strongest, so we're going to need a bench, and we're going to have to angle it back rather severely (as shown in figures 7 and 8).

    As far as arm position, we know that for side laterals, the medial deltoid is best recruited with an arm held in the neutral position ? that is, with the biceps and thumb forward and the elbow and heel of the hand back. But does this apply to front raises? Not in this case. If we did the movement in the aforementioned position, we'd selectively recruit the front deltoid, but we're constructing a movement for the medial delt here.

    So, in short, the medial deltoid, during front raises, is best recruited when the arm is held in the internal rotation position, i.e., the biceps and thumb facing inward and slightly down, while the elbow and heel of the hand are facing outward to the side and slightly up, as shown in figures 9 and 10. Exaggerating the internal rotation ? pouring water out of a pitcher ? is a good idea, as long as the elbow is pointed back and slightly up.

    Now, simply raise the dumbbells forward and upward, as if you were doing a semi-normal front dumbbell raise. And, as always, lower the weight in a controlled fashion or in a pre-determined tempo.
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    Question

    Originally Posted by Panacea9 View Post
    lol, an exercise for a non-existing muscle!!
    ?????????????????????????????
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    yes, as it is written in the article, it all depends on the "angle, lines of force, and arm/hand positioning".
    the front raise may work the medial delts, just the way the side raise may work the anterior delts, depending on the hand positioning.
    neutral grip in the front raise will focus the anterior delts more than a pronated grip. rotate the palms even further, so that your pinky is higher than your thumb, and you'll turn the front raise into a medial delt iso movement.
    the same is with the side raise - if your thumb is higher than your pinky, this exercise will work the anterior delts more; pinky higher than the thumb will shift the tension to the medial delts.
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    Registered User Jeremy2007's Avatar
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    I found this part interesting:

    Arm Positioning — More errors in logic

    Extend your arm out to the side and rotate your palms and biceps up. Now, with your biceps remaining up, rotate your palm down so your thumb is facing forward and downward. Feel comfortable? Recognize this arm position as the proper way to laterals? WRONG! This is not the proper position for doing laterals.

    You've been hearing how you have to pretend you're "pouring water" by nearly everybody who ever set foot in the gym, but this is incorrect, except in the case where you're serving refreshments to everyone in the area.

    Let's try it my way. Extend your arm out and rotate your palms and biceps up. Now rotate your upper arm so the biceps are facing forward and your elbow is facing backwards. THIS is the proper upper arm position. Now, with your upper arm still facing forward, rotate the lower arm into the old "pouring water" position.

    This is the arm position that best recruits the muscles of the lateral deltoid.
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    Originally Posted by Jeremy2007 View Post
    From http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle....r=bodybuilding

    New Exercise: Front Raises for the Medial Deltoid

    No, I'm not hallucinating. I'm proposing that you do front raises to work the medial deltoid. Now, most people think that front raises are categorically designed only for the front deltoid, but that's not necessarily the case. It all has to do with how the exercise is constructed, or performed. I discovered this one day while testing various exercises on my EMG equipment.

    EMG equipment measures the electrical activity (recruitment) of the muscles. Theoretically, at least, this allows researchers to figure out which fibers are being the most strongly recruited and even which types of fibers (slow twitch or fast twitch) are being selectively recruited.

    Although the activation elicited by front raises on the medial delts wasn't as great as that elicited by side laterals (about 90% of it), it still provided a greater stimulus than that afforded by pressing movements.

    Now, given all I've said about arm positioning, angles of recruitment, and EMG readings, let's construct a front raise exercise that recruits the medial deltoid.

    We know that the greatest resistance is expressed from an arm that's parallel to the ground and that the start of the exercise is the strongest, so we're going to need a bench, and we're going to have to angle it back rather severely (as shown in figures 7 and 8).

    As far as arm position, we know that for side laterals, the medial deltoid is best recruited with an arm held in the neutral position ? that is, with the biceps and thumb forward and the elbow and heel of the hand back. But does this apply to front raises? Not in this case. If we did the movement in the aforementioned position, we'd selectively recruit the front deltoid, but we're constructing a movement for the medial delt here.

    So, in short, the medial deltoid, during front raises, is best recruited when the arm is held in the internal rotation position, i.e., the biceps and thumb facing inward and slightly down, while the elbow and heel of the hand are facing outward to the side and slightly up, as shown in figures 9 and 10. Exaggerating the internal rotation ? pouring water out of a pitcher ? is a good idea, as long as the elbow is pointed back and slightly up.

    Now, simply raise the dumbbells forward and upward, as if you were doing a semi-normal front dumbbell raise. And, as always, lower the weight in a controlled fashion or in a pre-determined tempo.
    I'll give these a try. You must have the biggest side delts on bb.com with all your posts about them!
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  6. #6
    Registered User Jeremy2007's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KingSht View Post
    I'll give these a try. You must have the biggest side delts on bb.com with all your posts about them!
    Yeah I wish... If I had the biggest delts then why would I research them so much? My new year resolution though is to have the biggest side delts I can.
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    Funny, after all that, Im pretty sure we dont have a MEDIAL deltoid, but a middle deltoid... Anterior, middle and posterior fibres... If anything, its the most lateral of all the deltoid fibres...
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    Originally Posted by PhilX View Post
    Funny, after all that, Im pretty sure we dont have a MEDIAL deltoid, but a middle deltoid... Anterior, middle and posterior fibres... If anything, its the most lateral of all the deltoid fibres...
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    Registered User Panacea9's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kalt View Post
    I'll quote

    "The term "medial" is a directional term that means "toward the midline" of, in this case, the body. From the anatomical position - standing, arms at sides, palms supinated (facing forward), the head of the deltoid that is sandwiched between the anterior and posterior deltoid fibers is actually the farthest away from the midline of the body of all of the heads of the deltoid. If anything, it should be called the lateral head! As such, these fibers are referred to as the "middle deltoid," a term that correctly identifies their position between the anterior and posterior deltoid. " (http://www.ericcressey.com/bogusbiomechanics1.html)
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  10. #10
    Ghost Negger DiamondDelts's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    More scientific bull**** making a moutain out of a molehill
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    This article brings up some interesting thoughts. Isolating the middle delt always seems a bit tough to feel. In some of the illustrations the figures are raising their arms all the way overhead. I thought you were only suppose to bring your arms to Parallel? Are you still working your delt with that continued range of motion? Is it a good idea?
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    Originally Posted by Jeremy2007 View Post
    From http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle....r=bodybuilding

    New Exercise: Front Raises for the Medial Deltoid

    EMG equipment measures the electrical activity (recruitment) of the muscles. Theoretically, at least, this allows researchers to figure out which fibers are being the most strongly recruited and even which types of fibers (slow twitch or fast twitch) are being selectively recruited.
    The whole concept of using EMG to measure muscle recruitment is flawed. While this was thought to have some relavence a decade or so ago, its utility to this type of application is questionable, at best.

    Relationship between wire EMG activity, muscle length, and torque of the hamstrings

    Olfat Mohamed, , a, Jacquelin Perryb and Helen Hislopc
    a Department of Physical Therapy, California State University, 1250 Bellflower Boulevard, Long Beach, CA 90840-5603, USA
    b Pathokinesiology Laboratory, Rancho Los Amigos National Rehabilitation Center, Downey, CA, USA
    c Department of Biokinesiology and Physical Therapy, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA, USA
    Received 8 January 2002; accepted 28 June 2002. Available online 11 September 2002.

    Abstract

    Objective. To determine the effect of change of muscle length on the torque and wire electromyographic activity of six knee flexor muscles.

    Design. Maximum isometric knee flexion torque and wire EMG data were collected at nine different positions.

    Background. In vivo EMG?length?tension relationship is difficult to determine because of the interaction between muscle length and moment arm. The study of two-joint muscles allows the change of muscle length at one joint while preserving stable mechanical relationships at the other. This model facilitates understanding of length?tension and EMG?length relationship in vivo.

    Methods. Nineteen subjects performed maximum isometric knee flexion contraction at nine positions of varying hip and knee angles. Wire EMG activity was recorded from semitendionsus, semimembranosus, long and short head of the biceps femoris, gracilis and sartorious muscles.

    Results. As the two-joint hamstrings were lengthened, torque was significantly increased. Maximum isometric torque ranged from 257 to 716 kg cm. The ratio of the torque values to EMG activity of all muscles was increased at longer muscle lengths. A change in the muscle length of the two-joint hamstrings did not produce a consistent change of EMG activity. The short head of the biceps femoris and sartorius muscles increased their activity as the angle of knee flexion increased.

    Conclusions. Maximum torque of knee flexion occurs at the most lengthened position of the hamstrings. EMG activity did not consistently change with the change in muscle length.

    Relevance Understanding in vivo length?tension relationship and associated EMG activity is important for designing rehabilitation protocols, tendon lengthening and transfer and interpretation of EMG data.


    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...9c628543dd9ac9
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    Originally Posted by Kalt View Post
    We don't often agree (if ever) but here - you are right on target. When I read his statement " I said WHAT?"
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    WTF did I just read?
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    Originally Posted by LungeManiac View Post
    We don't often agree (if ever) but here - you are right on target. When I read his statement " I said WHAT?"

    So you dont understand? There is no medial delt, its middle delt, i was just correcting...
    Simple correction isnt making a mountain of a molehill, i thought i would say it just so that others werent misinformed, and dont go off telling other people about medial delts, when there are none...
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    Originally Posted by PhilX View Post
    So you dont understand? There is no medial delt, its middle delt, i was just correcting...
    Simple correction isnt making a mountain of a molehill, i thought i would say it just so that others werent misinformed, and dont go off telling other people about medial delts, when there are none...
    Middle/Medial/Lateral - whatever. We all know what the muscle is and where its located. It just seems silly and trivial to make a big deal of that. That's all. No biggie.

    Something told me in the back of my mind, agreeing with Kalt on anything would make me look less intelligent some how.
    Last edited by LungeManiac; 12-04-2007 at 04:09 PM.
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    Originally Posted by PhilX View Post
    So you dont understand? There is no medial delt, its middle delt, i was just correcting...
    Simple correction isnt making a mountain of a molehill, i thought i would say it just so that others werent misinformed, and dont go off telling other people about medial delts, when there are none...
    Think of "medial delt" as an idiom... or the correct phrase in BB-speak
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    Originally Posted by LungeManiac View Post
    Something told me in the back of my mind, agreeing with Kalt on anything would make me look less intelligent some how.
    lol
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    main point being, IMO, different hand and arm angles etc affect which muscle is worked the hardest.

    It is tru that about half the people u see in a gym doing "side" laterals or affecting front delt more than side delt.


    BTw...id still use the word "medial" if I felt like it, lol....as in "toward the MIDDLE of the delt" lol

    of course some hair splitters get upset at "SIDE laterals"



    I also think it is artificial to think of "3 heads" and then to work only 1 position for front and 1 position for side. I think it is beneficial to do a VARIETY of angles to hit all the various fibers.

    In other words, yes, u have "front" laterals and u have "side" laterls...but you also have infinite positions in between "front" and "side". for instance sometimes I do what i call "diagonal" laterals where its halfway between "front" and "side"


    and yes, I am aware my delts suck also, lol...U can tell I have basically NEVER done front laterals. for years I mistakenly took the advice that one doesnt need front laterals if one does plenty of pressing
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    I think this is on to something, partially anyway. Which head is recruited seems to be a combination of both the rotation of the shoulder joint, the orientation of the body in space, and the direction the arm is travelling. Seems pretty complicated.
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    Lencho has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) Lencho has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) Lencho has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) Lencho has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) Lencho has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) Lencho has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) Lencho has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) Lencho has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) Lencho has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) Lencho has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) Lencho has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
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