Staley On Performance (NEW Q&A Column!)

[Wildtim]

Speaking not as a moderator but just as a contributing member to this section I want to thank Mr. Staley for contributing to this section.

No matter what you eventual performance goal, whether it be the speed of Olympic lifting, the power of powerlifting, or the sculpting inherent in Bodybuilding every lifter needs a grounding of basic strength to accomplish their goals. The 95 pound weakling isn't going to get 16" arms with curls alone just like he wouldn't be competitive in the other lifting sports until he was strong.

If this thread can help people learn to perform better in the basics it is well worth having here. I believe it can.

[Orlando1234977]

Speaking not as a moderator but just as a contributing member to this section I want to thank Mr. Staley for contributing to this section.

No matter what you eventual performance goal, whether it be the speed of Olympic lifting, the power of powerlifting, or the sculpting inherent in Bodybuilding every lifter needs a grounding of basic strength to accomplish their goals. The 95 pound weakling isn't going to get 16" arms with curls alone just like he wouldn't be competitive in the other lifting sports until he was strong.

If this thread can help people learn to perform better in the basics it is well worth having here. I believe it can.

I don't think myself or anybody else has a problem with Staley or his workout ideas.

The problem is with this retarded notion (that you emphasized) that gets so highly endorsed in this section, that bodybuilders don't train to acquire strength as well, and from day one.

Curls alone are not the only alternative to not doing curls. Nobody implied curls alone, so what's the point of that statement? Also, curls are in fact, considered a bodybuilding basic movement and bodybuilders endorse beginners to do them from day 1. Why is it so hard to understand that powerlifting basics, olympic training basics and bodybuilding basics are not all exactly the same? Although most bodybuilding basic movements (movements that target the muscle belly at it's fullest) are considered compounds (involve multiple joints), not all of them are.

Also, if you think the majority of bodybuilders primary goal is 'sculpting', you haven't been around many bodybuilders... amiright.

[rando_commando]

There's a lot to your question, but I do understand it. Correct— there's no best way, just methods and principles that work. If you hired me to put as much muscle on you as humanly possible, I'd have you training 3-4 days a week, using 3-4 exercises per session, and the exercises would feature the following movements:

• Back Squats andor Front Squats
• Deadlifts
• Bench Press and/or DB Bench
• Chins and/or Pullups
• Barbell Presses and/or Push Presses
• Some type of horizontal Row

These are the best movements for functional strength and hypertrophy IMO>

Set/rep brackets could range anywhere from 3 sets of 12 to 10 sets of 3, and everything in-between. I do believe in maximal strength training performed concurrently with hypertrophy training

I like narrow pyramids followed by 1-3 back-off sets. For example:

Back Squat

45x5, 905x5, 135x5, 185x5, 225x5, 275x3, 315 (3x3), 265x8, 115x12

Exact sets, reps etc., are determined "on the fly" based on how things are going at the moment. I prefer maximum variety within the bounds of the above parameters.

I use little to no direct arm, ab, or calf training assuming that you're not a competitive bodybuilder. Even if you were, I'm not sure if I'd go there

Hope this helps to give you a sense of my approach, but feel free to pose follow up questions if you'd like.

I have been training for ~7 months on a split program , and i want to jump to a full body 3 times a week after i was conviced that it's the way to go for me. My squat is bodyweight X 5 , bench is the same at the moment ( trained legs only once per week ).
What would you recommend to a trainee at my level? go all out everyday and try to increase my lifts every workout( i can see squat increasing easily , but not bench i am afraid )? Heavy / light / medium days? I am after mass , but strength also.

I was thinking a heavy monday , all lifts for 5 reps , then light , 12-14 reps , and a medium for 8 reps. Then increase all lifts next week ( or maybe pull one more rep ).
Am i way off here?
Thanks in advance , i am excited to jump into fullbody.



edit: Thank you for the fast responce! i will try as you adviced.

[staley]

Id squat and bench perhaps 2x/wk. Maybe one big set of 5 on day 1, and 3x5 on day two. Increase load by about 5 pounds each week until you stall.

I have been training for ~7 months on a split program , and i want to jump to a full body 3 times a week after i was conviced that it's the way to go for me. My squat is bodyweight X 5 , bench is the same at the moment ( trained legs only once per week ).
What would you recommend to a trainee at my level? go all out everyday and try to increase my lifts every workout( i can see squat increasing easily , but not bench i am afraid )? Heavy / light / medium days? I am after mass , but strength also.

I was thinking a heavy monday , all lifts for 5 reps , then light , 12-14 reps , and a medium for 8 reps. Then increase all lifts next week ( or maybe pull one more rep ).
Am i way off here?
Thanks in advance , i am excited to jump into fullbody.

[ironryan1234]

hey staley, i think u are giving some great advice in here, and not being scarce with it, like so many other knowledgable people on here. keep it up.

i have some questions if u have time to answer it would be great.
how far do u think a set should be taken, how often if at all should u go till failure, and do u class failure as racking it or for instance during bench, the bb having to be racked by a spotter.

with maximum size in mind, can u give ur finest example of a chest workout day? i believe i am easily overtrained, an constantly feel stressed before a workout, due to being at work for long hrs. low volume?

thanks.

[all pro]

Id squat and bench perhaps 2x/wk. Maybe one big set of 5 on day 1, and 3x5 on day two. Increase load by about 5 pounds each week until you stall.

OR you could do 2 10 rep warm ups, a 5 rep work set followed by a 15 rep work set on work one. Then do the 2 warm ups and 3x5 using the 1 by 5 weight from work out 1. Then use a rep calculator to rest the weight,
http://www.naturalphysiques.com/18/o...max-calculator
The 3x5 weight would be a 7 rep max if you completed all 3 sets. And if you got all 15 reps on that 15 rep set, reset the weight to a 10 rep max. Deload every 4th week and you can run this for a loooooong time!

[Cloud_007]

Im new to training / following a workout routine. Previously, I would simply workout in an inconsistent manner (both in exercises and frequency of going to the gym). Recently I looked into HST and it sounds solid logically. Whats your opinion on HST?

TBH, Im not at all stuck on HST. At the moment, Im focusing on bulking / building muscle. If you think a different workout routine would offer better results - Im all ears!

[rando_commando]

OR you could do 2 10 rep warm ups, a 5 rep work set followed by a 15 rep work set on work one. Then do the 2 warm ups and 3x5 using the 1 by 5 weight from work out 1. Then use a rep calculator to rest the weight,
http://www.naturalphysiques.com/18/o...max-calculator
The 3x5 weight would be a 7 rep max if you completed all 3 sets. And if you got all 15 reps on that 15 rep set, reset the weight to a 10 rep max. Deload every 4th week and you can run this for a loooooong time!

Big thanks to both all pro and staley for the valuable advice. Lifts have been steadily increasing the past month ( since i switched to fullbody ).
Also , keeping a log of my lifts , and planning ahead was the best change i did towards progress.

[staley]

It's been quite a while since I've looked at HST. I like Bryan and he knows his stuff, however I seem to remember HST involving a lot of machine work, which I do not advocate.*

Im new to training / following a workout routine. Previously, I would simply workout in an inconsistent manner (both in exercises and frequency of going to the gym). Recently I looked into HST and it sounds solid logically. Whats your opinion on HST?

TBH, Im not at all stuck on HST. At the moment, Im focusing on bulking / building muscle. If you think a different workout routine would offer better results - Im all ears!

[HPNFormula1]

Squats, deadlifts, and chest are the best compound movements!

[bleee]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843
Opinion on this workout?

[CMSI]

Coach Staley,

Why do you think that splits are inefficient compared with full body routines? Regardless of how you choose to divide up and pair your exercises, all that matters in the end is that your routine prioritizes good compound movements and isn't filled with a bunch of useless isolation exercises. One could also argue that full body routines are better suited to beginners who aren't capable of stressing the central nervous system the way that an experienced lifter can, and that doing something like squats and deadlifts on the same day is terribly inneficient due to the amount of fatigue that one will induce before the other is done. Also, what about overtraining?

This again comes back to the differences between beginner and advanced lifters, but an advanced lifter will be able to handle much heavier loads and higher volumes than a beginner can, and as such, is typically going to need more healing time between sessions. After multiple gruelling sets of deadlifts, you should have trouble bending over to pick up a pen for a few days; retraining those muscle groups long before they've finished healing will, at the very least, kill your progress, and at the worst, get you injured. If you are able to go in every other day and do "the big 3," you are not training hard enough each session, period. I mean no disrespect, but I really can't understand how you can dispute this.

[staley]

Give me an example of a split you like and I'll tell you if I have an issue with it. BTW I don't believe you should be nearly crippled after a training session

Coach Staley,

Why do you think that splits are inefficient compared with full body routines? Regardless of how you choose to divide up and pair your exercises, all that matters in the end is that your routine prioritizes good compound movements and isn't filled with a bunch of useless isolation exercises. One could also argue that full body routines are better suited to beginners who aren't capable of stressing the central nervous system the way that an experienced lifter can, and that doing something like squats and deadlifts on the same day is terribly inneficient due to the amount of fatigue that one will induce before the other is done. Also, what about overtraining?

This again comes back to the differences between beginner and advanced lifters, but an advanced lifter will be able to handle much heavier loads and higher volumes than a beginner can, and as such, is typically going to need more healing time between sessions. After multiple gruelling sets of deadlifts, you should have trouble bending over to pick up a pen for a few days; retraining those muscle groups long before they've finished healing will, at the very least, kill your progress, and at the worst, get you injured. If you are able to go in every other day and do "the big 3," you are not training hard enough each session, period. I mean no disrespect, but I really can't understand how you can dispute this.

[staley]

The progression strategy is sound but too many exercises for a single session

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843
Opinion on this workout?

[CMSI]

Give me an example of a split you like and I'll tell you if I have an issue with it. BTW I don't believe you should be nearly crippled after a training session

I'm currently using the GST program, which is split up into 4 different movement patterns: LIFT, PRESS, SQUAT, & PULL. The program focuses on compound exercises almost exclusively, and is structured where each day has a "core exercise," which is your main focus for growth and development, and then 2-3 "supplement exercises," which are designed to fill in the gaps. An example would be on PULL day, your core could be pull-ups, and the supplements could be any 2-3 of the following: bent-over barbell rows, cable rows, lat pull-downs, hammer strength high-rows, t-bar rows, etc.

Or, for LIFT day, the core could be deadlifts, and the supplements could be romanian deadlifts, cable pull-throughs, roman chair/hyperextensions, glute ham raises, lying leg curls, seated leg curls, etc. The last 2 listed are isolation exercises, I know, but they are important movements for strengthening the hamstrings, and thus are exceptions to the otherwise "strictly compound movements" rule.

The program runs on a micro/macrocycle set-up, where a microcycle is 1 week, and a macrocycle is 1 month. The core exercises stay in place for a minimum of 1 macrocycle, but can stay in place as long as you like, and the supplement exercises are rotated every 2-3 microcycles. The entire program is actually outlined in the workout programs section in this forum if you want to take a further look. Oh, and I don't think you should literally be "crippled" after a workout either; I was just making the point that if you are an experienced lifter and know how to train hard, you should be noticeably sore for a few days after a given workout and that working the same muscle groups before they have healed is counterproductive.

[staley]

Well all programs have both negative and positive attributes relative to your desired outcome. My issue with this setup involves two negatives:

1) Performing a lifting pattern only once per week or microcycle is probably not enough frequency for most contexts.

2) Performing 3-4 of the movements you outline below in one session is redundant in my opinion. For example, pull-ups and lat pulldowns are nearly identical movements.

I'd personally use (for example) a lift/press workout (using one exercise per pattern) followed by a squat and pull workout*(using one exercise per pattern), rest a day or two, and then repeat but using different exercises for the same patterns. For example:

Monday: Deads, Standing Presses
Tuesday: Front Squats, Chins
Thursday: RDL's, bench press
Friday: Back Squats, rows

The program I outlined above also has its flaws, but I like the pro VS con ratio a lot better

I'm currently using the GST program, which is split up into 4 different movement patterns: LIFT, PRESS, SQUAT, & PULL. The program focuses on compound exercises almost exclusively, and is structured where each day has a "core exercise," which is your main focus for growth and development, and then 2-3 "supplement exercises," which are designed to fill in the gaps. An example would be on PULL day, your core could be pull-ups, and the supplements could be any 2-3 of the following: bent-over barbell rows, cable rows, lat pull-downs, hammer strength high-rows, t-bar rows, etc.

Or, for LIFT day, the core could be deadlifts, and the supplements could be romanian deadlifts, cable pull-throughs, roman chair/hyperextensions, glute ham raises, lying leg curls, seated leg curls, etc. The last 2 listed are isolation exercises, I know, but they are important movements for strengthening the hamstrings, and thus are exceptions to the otherwise "strictly compound movements" rule.

The program runs on a micro/macrocycle set-up, where a microcycle is 1 week, and a macrocycle is 1 month. The core exercises stay in place for a minimum of 1 macrocycle, but can stay in place as long as you like, and the supplement exercises are rotated every 2-3 microcycles. The entire program is actually outlined in the workout programs section in this forum if you want to take a further look. Oh, and I don't think you should literally be "crippled" after a workout either; I was just making the point that if you are an experienced lifter and know how to train hard, you should be noticeably sore for a few days after a given workout and that working the same muscle groups before they have healed is counterproductive.

[bleee]

The progression strategy is sound but too many exercises for a single session

What exercises do you suggest I leave out then?

[CMSI]

Well all programs have both negative and positive attributes relative to your desired outcome. My issue with this setup involves two negatives:

1) Performing a lifting pattern only once per week or microcycle is probably not enough frequency for most contexts.

2) Performing 3-4 of the movements you outline below in one session is redundant in my opinion. For example, pull-ups and lat pulldowns are nearly identical movements.

I'd personally use (for example) a lift/press workout (using one exercise per pattern) followed by a squat and pull workout*(using one exercise per pattern), rest a day or two, and then repeat but using different exercises for the same patterns. For example:

Monday: Deads, Standing Presses
Tuesday: Front Squats, Chins
Thursday: RDL's, bench press
Friday: Back Squats, rows

The program I outlined above also has its flaws, but I like the pro VS con ratio a lot better

That's an interesting setup, but I generally prefer to work all the muscle groups involved in a particular movement pattern on the same day. To each his own, I suppose. I did want to address the second negative you mentioned: of the supplement exercises I listed, you choose 2-3 (you don't do all of them), and ideally, you pick ones that are not redundant. The lat pull-downs would not typically be used as a supplement exercise if your core exercise is pull-ups - that was just an example of one of the many exercises that can be part of the program. In any case, like you said, everything has it's pros and cons...

[youngl1003]

I gave my advice only because I was asked for it

The difference between your power-lifting goals and the average lay person's goal may have a LARGE disparity. Where all other sports are concerned with your athletic performance, body-building is unique in that it is only concerned with your aesthetic appearance and developing it in the most proportional and effective way.

The advice you have given will do nothing but confuse more inexperienced lifters into believing what you say as the most effective method of hypertrophy training. Your statements about not doing assistance work, or only hitting 10 sets per muscle, or not isolating muscles into 4 and 5 day splits showcases your complete general lack of knowledge from a bodybuilding perspective.

It is your responsibility to be COMPLETELY CLEAR with where your expertise lies in order to not misinform the general public (who uses this site).

Why do people who don't give a sh*t about bodybuilding answer questions related to bodybuilding?

Exactly what this section doesn't need.

I don't think I could have better said it myself. OP, just because you are an accomplished power-lifter does not mean you are a knowledgeable source of body-building knowledge. That's just a fallacy.

IMO - move this thread to where it belongs.

[jammyo40]

The difference between your power-lifting goals and the average lay person's goal may have a LARGE disparity. Where all other sports are concerned with your athletic performance, body-building is unique in that it is only concerned with your aesthetic appearance and developing it in the most proportional and effective way.

The advice you have given will do nothing but confuse more inexperienced lifters into believing what you say as the most effective method of hypertrophy training. Your statements about not doing assistance work, or only hitting 10 sets per muscle, or not isolating muscles into 4 and 5 day splits showcases your complete general lack of knowledge from a bodybuilding perspective.

It is your responsibility to be COMPLETELY CLEAR with where your expertise lies in order to not misinform the general public (who uses this site).



I don't think I could have better said it myself. OP, just because you are an accomplished power-lifter does not mean you are a knowledgeable source of body-building knowledge. That's just a fallacy.

IMO - move this thread to where it belongs.

1) Coach Staley is not a power lifter.
2) Coach Staley's emphasis on compound lifts such as squats, deadlifts, and presses are exactly what inexperienced lifters need.
3) The title of this thread and Coach Staley's profile should make it perfectly clear where his expertise are.

[staley]

I stand by my advice. I might also reminds you that I've been coaching people for longer than you've been alive. Also I am not a powerlifter, nor do I coach powerlifters

The difference between your power-lifting goals and the average lay person's goal may have a LARGE disparity. Where all other sports are concerned with your athletic performance, body-building is unique in that it is only concerned with your aesthetic appearance and developing it in the most proportional and effective way.

The advice you have given will do nothing but confuse more inexperienced lifters into believing what you say as the most effective method of hypertrophy training. Your statements about not doing assistance work, or only hitting 10 sets per muscle, or not isolating muscles into 4 and 5 day splits showcases your complete general lack of knowledge from a bodybuilding perspective.

It is your responsibility to be COMPLETELY CLEAR with where your expertise lies in order to not misinform the general public (who uses this site).



I don't think I could have better said it myself. OP, just because you are an accomplished power-lifter does not mean you are a knowledgeable source of body-building knowledge. That's just a fallacy.

IMO - move this thread to where it belongs.

[3mudy]

I don't have a question right now, but I'm enjoying reading your posts. Nice job!

[PhreEkGarden]

I don't think I could have better said it myself. OP, just because you are an accomplished power-lifter does not mean you are a knowledgeable source of body-building knowledge. That's just a fallacy.

IMO - move this thread to where it belongs.

You're all ungrateful little a-holes for this crap. It is Mr. Staley's thread on PERFORMANCE, not in which order a body part should be worked every week or exactly how many reps is best for chest growth. Everyone knows this site is far beyond just bodybuilding, so regardless of what section it is in, if PERFORMANCE doesn't apply at all to the question, why is it being asked here?

Have a little respect for a coach who deserves it.

Edit: ...and by the way, he specifically said he was not a powerlifter, so stop making yourself sound like an idiot.

[staley]

I think an issue some of the guys are having a misunderstanding about is hypertrophy VS bodybuilding. I consider myself competent in providing advice on the first topic but somewhat less so on the second

You're all ungrateful little a-holes for this crap. It is Mr. Staley's thread on PERFORMANCE, not in which order a body part should be worked every week or exactly how many reps is best for chest growth. Everyone knows this site is far beyond just bodybuilding, so regardless of what section it is in, if PERFORMANCE doesn't apply at all to the question, why is it being asked here?

Have a little respect for a coach who deserves it.

Edit: ...and by the way, he specifically said he was not a powerlifter, so stop making yourself sound like an idiot.

[CookAndrewB]

Coach Staley,

First off, it is great having you onboard.

My question has nothing to do with hypertrophy or training splits, but rather performance/skill on a lift like the power snatch. To make sure that we are clear, I'm talking full pull from the ground, but catching the bar with only a slight dip and not a full depth catch.

I've recently read some information regarding power development in hang position vice pulling from the floor in Ironmind magazine and I was hoping to pick your brain a bit. The article makes a case for doing lifts (cleans, snatches) from the hang, stating that power production is greater in this position. It does state that this is not an effective way to practice Olympic lifts, but that if POWER output is the concern, then this is the way to go.

I compete as a strongman, and I practice power versions of Oly lifts as a way to develop power, speed, and some level of "body awareness," or just a general feel for moving a weight through space (explosively) and staying in control, balanced, etc. I believe that I can get a lot of this feedback through hang variations of lifts, but I have not practiced hang versions and my form/technique cues all seem to start off the floor in such a way that hang variations feel awkward at this point.

So my question is, would it be worth re-teaching myself hang variations as a way to develop more power? I've been getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-30 snatches in, per week, over the last three years (spread over two days) and I'm just now starting to feel very comfortable with my first pull and catch. I haven't made amazing gains on my power snatch, but I've been more concerned about technique than weight, so slow progress hasn't bothered me. This is also not a "performance measure" of my particular sport, so I haven't treated it as a primary lift.

I am willing to go back to the drawing board on this, if it would better support my strongman performance, but I'm not sure if what I'm reading is splitting hairs and talking about 1% difference in power output, or if this is a significant change with potential significant results.

Thanks for your time, Coach.

[BigTwoThree]

I was wondering since you say your not a fan of the GST program, what you think of my version of it.
Leg 1
Box squat 3 sets. Last set max r.*
Rack pulls 3 sets 8-10 or 2 sets of *
15-20 reps
Forward lunges 30 lunges with heavy weight or 60 with low weight
Hypers 3 sets of 8-10 or 2 sets of 15-20

Upper 1
Flat bench 3 sets. Last set max r.*
Db floor press. 3 sets 8-10 reps or 2 sets of 15-20
Dips 30 with heavy weight or 60 with bw
Push ups 2 sets max reps

Leg 2
Explosive box squat
Power Clean*
Explosive kettleball lunges
Roll into med ball throw

Upper 2
Pull ups 3 sets last set max reps
Db rows 3 sets 8-10 reps or 2 sets 15-20 reps
Military press 3 sets 8-10 reps or 2 sets of 15-20 reps
Med ball slams 10 sets 2-3 slams

This is just the current exercises I'm doing. For my next cycle I'll most likely being doing conventional deadlifts in place of box squats and replace rack pulls with a squat variation. Anyway my concept behind it is, this way I work legs twice a week and upper body twice. I have one explosive leg day and one strength/hypertropthy day. And have an explosive exercise for each upper body day as well as a finisher. I use to play hockey, but now I usually just do for fun, either floor hockey or bush league tournaments. I like to stay athletic and want to be more explosive both upper and lower body wise. I want speed as well as power.
I want to add in some forearm work but not sure where to put it. Last time I did it on my pull up day but because I tend to have my squat day the next day my rack pulls suffered a bit. Any other info needed, please ask. Thanks

[Mrdkmtheman]

Hi Mr. Staley. So, in the past few weeks I've been increasing the intensity of each workout. Usually I follow a 3-4 day split that hits each muscle once a week. I always do all my compound lifts. Although I've responded good to higher repetition/lower sets, I would like to get back to a program thats more strength induced in terms of lower based reps and higher sets. I've wanted to do this because when I did the 5x5 program, i made big gains in strength, but I honestly do not like sticking to just 5 particular exercises, because I am more into the bodybuilding aspect.
I put together this program based on what I need to work on.
I trade off every other day. Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday etc.

First Workout
Squats: 5 Sets X 4-12 Repetitions
Leg Press: 5 Sets X 4-12 Repetitions
Romanian Deadlifts: 5 Sets X 4-12 Repetitions
Seated Dumbbell Laterals: 4 Sets X 4-12 Repetitions
Shoulder Press: 4 Sets X 4-12 Repetitions
Upright Rows: 4 Sets X 4-12 Repetitions
Crunches: 3 Sets X 12-15 Repetitions
Reverse Crunches: 3 Sets X 12-15 Repetitions

Second Workout
Bench Press: 5 Sets X 4-12 Repetitions
Flys: 5 Sets X 4-12 Repetitions
Weighted Dips: 5 Sets X 4-12 Repetitions
Pull Ups: 4 Sets X 4-10 Repetitions
Bent Over Barbell Rows: 4 Sets X 4-1 Repetitions
Deadlifts: 4 Sets X 4-10 Repetitions
Standing Calf Raises: 4 Sets X 4-10 Repetitions
Seated Calf Raises: 4 Sets X 4-10 Repetitions

Would this be an ideal program for Bulking, overall conditioning, Strength, muscle endurance etc. ?

[bodynbeauty]

Good to hear spped demon

[ali_bhangu]

Im looking to gain more strength than size at the time being. Until know ive been going 4 days a week with Back/Bi, Chest/Tri, Legs, Traps/shoulders/etc and ive been doing 3 sets of 8-12 reps for each muscle group. I have gotten stronger but i want to know if theres a better workout for gaining power/strength? Size isnt to important to me currently. Im looking into 5x5 workouts but is that the best option to go with?

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