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  1. #61
    Registered User samarik's Avatar
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    Thank you for replying sir. Understand you don't have any details. I'll follow up in a month, need to get started first. Will definately look into no-carb/paleo strategies.

    Thanks,
    Sameer

    Originally Posted by staley View Post
    Sameer, sorry to be tough on you, but this still tells me nothing.

    First of all, no workout takes 12 weeks/ I've never heard of a workout that lasts 12 hours, no less 12 weeks!

    Second, "Cardio" is a very vague term- it can mean almost anything. This tells me nothing.

    Third, you have more than 7 bodyparts, so how do you work one "part" per day, and what does a "part" mean exactly?

    Fourth, even if I know what you meant above, I still don't know what exercises you're using, what intensities, what set/rep brackets, etc.

    All f the above aside, nutrition is going to be a huge component for you. I'd investigate no-carb and/or paleo strategies.
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  2. #62
    Registered User staley's Avatar
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    I might add that the question was regarding hypertrophy, not bodybuilding. The two terms are not entirely synonymous

    Originally Posted by ThickAsABrick View Post
    Why do people who don't give a sh*t about bodybuilding answer questions related to bodybuilding?

    Exactly what this section doesn't need.
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  3. #63
    Registered User staley's Avatar
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    Fair enough. I've gotta tell you though- just as an example- I've seen VERY few people acquire significant calf size without INSANE amounts of time working on calves. You've gotta consider the cost/benefit ratio. Lou Ferrigno opted calf implants BTW.

    So if you think it's worth your time to spend 3 hours a day on calf training, I guess I'd say to go for it.

    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    I'm not sure I understand how this makes sense from a bodybuilding perspective. Bodybuilding, after all, is about developing all muscles to a desired size & proportion. Using only a few compound lifts isn't going to lead to a competitive physique.

    From what I've read, your advice seems more in line with recommendations for a strength athlete, and not necessarily a bodybuilder.
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  4. #64
    Registered User staley's Avatar
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    This is my column, the question was put to me, and the question related to maximum hypertrophy, not bodybuilding

    Originally Posted by unity View Post
    there is clearly good information and knowledge to be had from this thread, but it is in the wrong section imo. the advice given, especially about direct work for arms, abs, and calves is terrible for bodybuilding purposes.
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  5. #65
    Registered User staley's Avatar
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    There are many, but the programming isn't nearly as important as having a good feedback system (coach, video, etc) so that you can improve your mechanics. I'd find a local weightlifting coach if possible

    Originally Posted by syntx View Post
    On topic: I haven't seen many beginner programs that introduce people to the oly lifts. I have done Starting Strength and one of Bill Starr's programs on and off for about a year and have made great gains (although not as good as it could have been), but want to gain more explosiveness and speed. Is there something you would recommend or am I simply uninformed? If you need more information I can post it.



    Edit: As I mentioned I ran Bill Starr's 5x5, I was able to do this for 14 straight weeks. I believe I've overtrained my CNS as I've stalled on my Bench and Back Squat, how long do most people deload for before starting back up again? Or if that's not the right question, how can I tell that I've completely recovered from any fatigue?

    Edit 2: If you were to do a bodybuilding routine, would you still stick to compound barbell lifts and simply increase reps?
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  6. #66
    Registered User staley's Avatar
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    Young people looking for advice might be better served learning how to perform athletic, functional movements as opposed to learning machine-based and/or single-joint movements performed with slow tempos and/to exhaustion.



    Originally Posted by unity View Post
    i like strength training.

    but a lot of young people come on here looking for advice for bodybuilding and get confused because they receive advice about strength training. there needs some kind of clarification.
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  7. #67
    Registered User longshankman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by staley View Post
    Hmmm. OK if you'll just allow me a knee-jerk reaction to your question, I'm not sure if it's useful or even possible to distinguish between these two types of hypertrophy in your training. For one reason, why would you spend time doing triples to get stronger, and then abandon that to work on sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (assuming that would even be possible)?

    Personally "the pump" is meaningless to me— it's "exerciser" thinking, placing pain before performance (my personal boas is reflected in the title of this column FYI). Use valid exercises, performing 5-10 sets of 3-8 reps per exercise, and you should be good to go. I'm happy to provide more detail if you like but that's where I'd start from— hope that helps.
    thanks for the reply,

    i guess the issue i was trying to explore is what is most efficient for a drug free trainee in terms of building a good physique. Almost a SS type routine compared to a higher volume routine, and what gives better results in the long run. Much of what i have seen recently is a move towards getting stronger as a focus, for example on statement i see is "train like a powerlifter and eat like a bodybuilder" as an optimal way of gaining muscle.

    Edit: Bro i just checked previous posts and this question had already been addressed, ignore post!
    Last edited by longshankman; 05-23-2011 at 09:00 PM.
    If its yellow let it mellow, if its brown flush it down, maybe
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  8. #68
    Registered User staley's Avatar
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    I like the "train like a powerlifter and eat like a bodybuilder" analogy. I wouldn't suggest training exactly like a powerlifter (as if there was such a singular thing), but you've gotta do squats, pulls, presses, chins, rows, etc


    Originally Posted by longshankman View Post
    thanks for the reply,

    i guess the issue i was trying to explore is what is most efficient for a drug free trainee in terms of building a good physique. Almost a SS type routine compared to a higher volume routine, and what gives better results in the long run. Much of what i have seen recently is a move towards getting stronger as a focus, for example on statement i see is "train like a powerlifter and eat like a bodybuilder" as an optimal way of gaining muscle.

    Edit: Bro i just checked previous posts and this question had already been addressed, ignore post!
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  9. #69
    Registered Texan Workhard20's Avatar
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    Staley my dream is to become a bodybuilder and I've done numerous workouts upper/lower split, full body routine, 5 day split, etc. I'm 18 years old, 170 lbs, and 5'10. For me to start bodybuilding would you suggest a full body routine for 1-2 years to build up muscle, mass, and to build up my core? For instance I would do All Pros routine or something like that. Then after my 1-2 years of doing a full body routine and gaining much size what do you suggest I do? Remember I want to be a bodybuilder so after getting this big strong body frame what would you suggest I do? I'm thinking about after hitting 205 lbs to move on to another routine so what do you suggest?
    Bulking [x]
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    Omw to some amazing strength gainz.

    Goals before the end of bulk:
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  10. #70
    Registered User staley's Avatar
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    I would train as per my suggestions in this column until you weigh perhaps 225 or more. After that, when it comes to developing shape, symmetry, striations, etc., You've gotta find another expert :-)

    Originally Posted by Workhard20 View Post
    Staley my dream is to become a bodybuilder and I've done numerous workouts upper/lower split, full body routine, 5 day split, etc. I'm 18 years old, 170 lbs, and 5'10. For me to start bodybuilding would you suggest a full body routine for 1-2 years to build up muscle, mass, and to build up my core? For instance I would do All Pros routine or something like that. Then after my 1-2 years of doing a full body routine and gaining much size what do you suggest I do? Remember I want to be a bodybuilder so after getting this big strong body frame what would you suggest I do? I'm thinking about after hitting 205 lbs to move on to another routine so what do you suggest?
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  11. #71
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    Originally Posted by staley View Post
    I like the "train like a powerlifter and eat like a bodybuilder" analogy. I wouldn't suggest training exactly like a powerlifter (as if there was such a singular thing), but you've gotta do squats, pulls, presses, chins, rows, etc
    Bodybuilders squat, press, pull, row and chin.. maybe we should tell powerlifters to train like bodybuilders.

    Originally Posted by staley View Post
    as opposed to learning machine-based and/or single-joint movements performed with slow tempos and/to exhaustion.
    Is that HIT or something? I don't know of any bodybuilders that train that way.

    IMO max hypertrophy requires both compounds and isolations. Beginners just the basic compounds and ISO's.
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  12. #72
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    Coach,

    I have a couple of questions on EDT for MxS.

    First, if the appropriate load was used on Day 1, how many doubles would you expect a trainee to get on the first go? If it were too heavy would you lower the weight or keep cracking at it if they only got 5 doubles?

    Second, the timing in the writeup for Day 2 seems a bit off. 3 minute rests in 15 minutes won't give you 7 singles. Is there something I'm missing here?

    Also, how many movements at a time would you suggest applying the method to?


    EDIT: Just so others know what I'm talking about that don't already:
    http://www.staleytraining.com/articl...evelopment.htm
    Last edited by DoubleBladedAxe; 05-25-2011 at 08:20 AM.
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  13. #73
    Registered User staley's Avatar
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    The use of machine-based, single-joint, slow tempo training is more prevalent in the bodybuilding community than it is in the powerlifting community

    Originally Posted by Orlando1234977 View Post
    Bodybuilders squat, press, pull, row and chin.. maybe we should tell powerlifters to train like bodybuilders.



    Is that HIT or something? I don't know of any bodybuilders that train that way.

    IMO max hypertrophy requires both compounds and isolations. Beginners just the basic compounds and ISO's.
    Last edited by staley; 05-25-2011 at 10:59 AM.
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  14. #74
    Registered User staley's Avatar
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    I have this concept that you should be able to get a max of 14 sets, but a minimum of 7. Therefore, if the load does not permit at leasy 7 sets, it's too heavy. If it permits 14 sets, it's too light.

    The timing thing is a typo- it'll take 21 mins

    Apply this to one movement per session

    Originally Posted by DoubleBladedAxe View Post
    Coach,

    I have a couple of questions on EDT for MxS.

    First, if the appropriate load was used on Day 1, how many doubles would you expect a trainee to get on the first go? If it were too heavy would you lower the weight or keep cracking at it if they only got 5 doubles?

    Second, the timing in the writeup for Day 2 seems a bit off. 3 minute rests in 15 minutes won't give you 7 singles. Is there something I'm missing here?

    Also, how many movements at a time would you suggest applying the method to?


    EDIT: Just so others know what I'm talking about that don't already:
    http://www.staleytraining.com/articl...evelopment.htm
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  15. #75
    stretching blows boathead's Avatar
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    nothing?

    Originally Posted by boathead View Post
    good job, mr. staley. question about master's track. it's been on my bucket list to try a meet, shorter sprints.

    have you an opinion on weight training? what were the sprinters doing when you competed?

    could sure use a short list of the exercises deemed important for the masters athlete. presently i'm doing the usual stuff:

    m overhead press, bench light, rows
    w deadlift, romanian deadlift, chins
    f or sat back squat, leg press, leg ext, leg curl, bench, overhead press light

    mostly though, i am curious about incorporating sprints into this....should i do my track work/hill work first? and then hit the gym? or do the running on days that i don't hit the gym? i only hit the track 2x per week, once for speed training, and once for speed endurance.

    thanks my man!
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  16. #76
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    Sorry boat, I was sure I'd replied to this.

    I like sprinting and lifting same day, and ideally same session, in that order. This leaves "true" rest days in between training session.

    I like your exercise list save for the machine exercises
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    Originally Posted by staley View Post
    I have this concept that you should be able to get a max of 14 sets, but a minimum of 7. Therefore, if the load does not permit at leasy 7 sets, it's too heavy. If it permits 14 sets, it's too light.

    The timing thing is a typo- it'll take 21 mins

    Apply this to one movement per session
    Thanks for the reply.

    I've been looking to apply more auto-regulation to my workouts and this fits the bill.

    I'm more leaning towards the Bulgarian daily max approach ATM though.
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  19. #79
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    Originally Posted by staley View Post
    I have this concept that you should be able to get a max of 14 sets, but a minimum of 7. Therefore, if the load does not permit at leasy 7 sets, it's too heavy. If it permits 14 sets, it's too light.

    The timing thing is a typo- it'll take 21 mins

    Apply this to one movement per session
    I feel like I chose too light of a weight for some of my PR zones. For example, on my machine press and hammer curl, I have hit 99 reps in both sessions with 25 sets and 23 sets respectively. I was hoping to improve on my second session by 20% but it seems very difficult since my initial rep count was so high. Would you suggest I move up in weight and, if so, would you suggest the standard five percent increase or something more dramatic?

    Also, on my flies and concentration curls PR zone, I chose too lightly and managed 100 reps on my first session and improved to 113 reps on my second session. While this wasn't a full 20% increase, would you suggest increasing and, just like above, by how much?

    Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide.
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    Coach whats your opinion on the 5/3/1?

    I need something simple where constant progression is needed, and 5/3/1 seems perfect...
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    Registered User staley's Avatar
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    Bogus, if you're using "traditional" EDT, I prefer to see between 50-70 reps per 15-minute time period. If you're significantly higher than that, I'd use additional loads

    Originally Posted by BogusForLife View Post
    I feel like I chose too light of a weight for some of my PR zones. For example, on my machine press and hammer curl, I have hit 99 reps in both sessions with 25 sets and 23 sets respectively. I was hoping to improve on my second session by 20% but it seems very difficult since my initial rep count was so high. Would you suggest I move up in weight and, if so, would you suggest the standard five percent increase or something more dramatic?

    Also, on my flies and concentration curls PR zone, I chose too lightly and managed 100 reps on my first session and improved to 113 reps on my second session. While this wasn't a full 20% increase, would you suggest increasing and, just like above, by how much?

    Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide.
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  22. #82
    Registered User staley's Avatar
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    I haven't looked at 531 in while but I remember thinking that it was a solid program

    Originally Posted by AnalHygiene View Post
    Coach whats your opinion on the 5/3/1?

    I need something simple where constant progression is needed, and 5/3/1 seems perfect...
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  23. #83
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    thanks
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  24. #84
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    Originally Posted by staley View Post
    Bogus, if you're using "traditional" EDT, I prefer to see between 50-70 reps per 15-minute time period. If you're significantly higher than that, I'd use additional loads
    That's what I was thinking which led me to the conclusion that my selected load was too light.

    Thanks for taking the time to reply.

    Btw, which book would you suggest for the most comprehensive analysis of EDT? From the research I've done, "Muscle Logic" seems to be the front runner.
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    I was wondering if I could have your take on frequency of loading. I mean obviously we utilize the weekly blocs as our lives are mostly arranged by the week with work and family matters and such. Thinking outside the box, in your opinion would it be more of a matter of how little a dose you can give per session in order to repeat said session as quickly as possible or are we talking more of a sweet spot or perhaps even more of a compromise between volume of session in order to get proper frequency. Are we looking at how little we need to do in order to get a training effect to allow us to repeat the session, would that be an adequate approach?


    Honestly for myself I have found for pure strenght a once per week session can work on the major lifts. However it seems for more overall performance and injury prevention a slightly higher frequency seems to work better. Also the "greasing the groove" factor does come into play.


    Do you often use the method of over reaching along with tappering weeks?


    Also another question would be regarding the principal of stopping an exercise when performance declines. From my personal observations and experience this seems to be a good principal overall and effective for pretty much any exercise even work such as sled and prowler training.
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    Just another quick comment. I find it interesting that you mention the Paleo style eating. I have really cut down on carbs this year and am most days well under 50 grams. I have however upped my intake of fat in the diet. This has had for effect to pretty much lean me out and give me constant energy. I can go 6 hours plus without a meal and still hit the iron hard without a lack of energy. Also the clear mind is something hard to describe!! I have told a few of my friends that if they ever come up with information contradicting this method that I will not be going back to any other way of eating!

    I had extensive experience with the Zone diet from when it first came out. With that one I was easily able to attain 6 percent body fat and maintain it. However with that muscle gains and energy were scarce to say the least. I kept wondering what the missing key was. To me it seems now that when I eat, the fat I consume appears to have the effect of what carbs used to create. Meaning a carbing up of the muscles themselves and also just an overall energy boost. This effect however is more subtle and longer lasting I find than what I used to experience with carb loading.

    Another experiment that left me with very mixed results was the warrior diet. With that one I could abolish hunger right up until the evening workout however the gains and also the fat loss was not that great. Plus my energy was greatly diminished by the time of the workout. Also during most sessions I would quickly run out of energy to train. I did keep the main component of it in the way I make sure my supper after the workout is my main meal of the day. It is working great so far I must say. I have not even experienced hunger since mother's day when I was subjected to a big plate of pasta lol!!

    How extensive is your experience with this type of regimen and what observations or remarks do you have regarding this?
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  27. #87
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    Why (scientifically) are alternating rep schemes effective?

    Why do we need an excess of calories to bulk, why is a lot of protein not enough?

    Why does LISS cardio burn more fat than HIIT cardio that burns more calories?

    Thanks!
    Workout Journal (Strength, Athleticism and Flexibility: An SS and GST Adventure) -- http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=131967863

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  28. #88
    Registered User staley's Avatar
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    This is potentially a complex question, but there is a fairly simple answer: for each application of stress (training bout) there is a stress/recovery curve- ideally you should time the second application of the stressor to coincide with the peak of that recovery curve.

    The tricky part of course, is knowing how to find the peak of the curve (I.e., the point at which recovery has been maximized, but no longer). Most lifters find this timing through experience and trial & error. I can continue further but this would be the starting point toward your answer...

    Originally Posted by ESCAPEVELOCITY View Post
    I was wondering if I could have your take on frequency of loading. I mean obviously we utilize the weekly blocs as our lives are mostly arranged by the week with work and family matters and such. Thinking outside the box, in your opinion would it be more of a matter of how little a dose you can give per session in order to repeat said session as quickly as possible or are we talking more of a sweet spot or perhaps even more of a compromise between volume of session in order to get proper frequency. Are we looking at how little we need to do in order to get a training effect to allow us to repeat the session, would that be an adequate approach?


    Honestly for myself I have found for pure strenght a once per week session can work on the major lifts. However it seems for more overall performance and injury prevention a slightly higher frequency seems to work better. Also the "greasing the groove" factor does come into play.


    Do you often use the method of over reaching along with tappering weeks?


    Also another question would be regarding the principal of stopping an exercise when performance declines. From my personal observations and experience this seems to be a good principal overall and effective for pretty much any exercise even work such as sled and prowler training.
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  29. #89
    Registered User staley's Avatar
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    I think it would be difficult to mount an argument that the "paleo" approach is not a healthy way to eat, and almost anyone who does it will lose bodyfat.

    Originally Posted by ESCAPEVELOCITY View Post
    Just another quick comment. I find it interesting that you mention the Paleo style eating. I have really cut down on carbs this year and am most days well under 50 grams. I have however upped my intake of fat in the diet. This has had for effect to pretty much lean me out and give me constant energy. I can go 6 hours plus without a meal and still hit the iron hard without a lack of energy. Also the clear mind is something hard to describe!! I have told a few of my friends that if they ever come up with information contradicting this method that I will not be going back to any other way of eating!

    I had extensive experience with the Zone diet from when it first came out. With that one I was easily able to attain 6 percent body fat and maintain it. However with that muscle gains and energy were scarce to say the least. I kept wondering what the missing key was. To me it seems now that when I eat, the fat I consume appears to have the effect of what carbs used to create. Meaning a carbing up of the muscles themselves and also just an overall energy boost. This effect however is more subtle and longer lasting I find than what I used to experience with carb loading.

    Another experiment that left me with very mixed results was the warrior diet. With that one I could abolish hunger right up until the evening workout however the gains and also the fat loss was not that great. Plus my energy was greatly diminished by the time of the workout. Also during most sessions I would quickly run out of energy to train. I did keep the main component of it in the way I make sure my supper after the workout is my main meal of the day. It is working great so far I must say. I have not even experienced hunger since mother's day when I was subjected to a big plate of pasta lol!!

    How extensive is your experience with this type of regimen and what observations or remarks do you have regarding this?
    Charles Staley
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  30. #90
    Registered User staley's Avatar
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    My comments below

    Originally Posted by J4S View Post
    Why (scientifically) are alternating rep schemes effective?

    *** Fatigue is specific to the type of loading you use. Therefore, following a training session with a DIFFERENT type of training session allows for greater frequency than following it by a similar one

    Why do we need an excess of calories to bulk, why is a lot of protein not enough?

    *** Additional lean mass requires energy to synthesize. A "lot" of protein is not necessarily enough but ENOUGH protein is enough

    Why does LISS cardio burn more fat than HIIT cardio that burns more calories?

    *** What is LISS cardio?

    Thanks!
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