Another lat tower/low row opinion request

[WorkingOnTheDream]

I've narrowed things down to the following 3 lat towers. All of them have no changeover for low row (just grab handle and go, no cable changing).


http://www.christiansfitnessfactory....lldown-Machine $391.50

http://www.newyorkbarbells.com/4650.html $429

http://www.christiansfitnessfactory....t-Low-Row-FW-4 $471.15


I'd already asked about the NYBB one--someone said it wasn't great.

But in comparison, what are your thoughts on the others in comparison?



And this weekend I'll hopefully get started on my dumbbell table (thanks to all who gave ideas for that!).

[kak39]

I went with the Bodysolid GLM83. @ $300 shipped. Very solid construction and has a low row without switching.

http://www.bodysolid.com/Home/item.cfm?id=508

[WorkingOnTheDream]

I went with the Bodysolid GLM83. @ $300 shipped. Very solid construction and has a low row without switching.

http://www.bodysolid.com/Home/item.cfm?id=508

Where did you find it for $300 shipped?

(that photo makes the thing look *really* short!)

[kak39]

Where did you find it for $300 shipped?

(that photo makes the thing look *really* short!)

It's on an upward angle. I'm 6' and i can get full ROM. fitnessfactory.com (contact sales, I negotiated that price via email)

[TommyStarwind]

It's on an upward angle. I'm 6' and i can get full ROM. fitnessfactory.com (contact sales, I negotiated that price via email)

What was the most you put on the machine? Can it handle quite a bit? Figure I might get a lat attachment with a row down the road. You ever use it for single are pulley exercises?

[kak39]

What was the most you put on the machine? Can it handle quite a bit? Figure I might get a lat attachment with a row down the road. You ever use it for single are pulley exercises?

Honestly, my wife uses it more than me. The most I think I put on there was (2) 45s / (2) 25s = 140lbs. I did rows/lat pulldowns and it was solid. I do advise getting different bars because the ones bodysolid provides by default were horrible/very soft bars. I have used the lower pulley for some single arm cable curls. Just make sure you stand on the foot plate

[chorscroft]

Another vote for the bodysolid here.

[WorkingOnTheDream]

Doesn't matter that the bodysolid has a single square post the weight slides up and down on?

And plastic bushings are no big deal?

Looks like the weights are going to try tilting on the column, so it seems like the plastic bushings would give out pretty quick.

Dunno.

[KBKB]

Doesn't matter that the bodysolid has a single square post the weight slides up and down on?

And plastic bushings are no big deal?

Looks like the weights are going to try tilting on the column, so it seems like the plastic bushings would give out pretty quick.

Ironmaster uses a similar design in that it has a square post upon which the weight carriage moves. I can't speak for the longevity of the thing yet, but I've been surprised at how freely it moves. It's better than some of the commercial machines that I used at the gym. What really surprises me is that I'm able to put a single 45 lb plate on one side and use the machine without any binding whatsoever. The BodySolid machine looks better in that the center post appears to be polished metal whereas Ironmaster's post uses paint. (I like the pulley system on the BodySolid machine too - no need to swap cables as I do on my Ironmaster cable tower.)

I've been lubing weight carriage (on my IM cable tower) every now and then with silicone spray - just a small squirt in between the metal pillar and the inner part of the carriage.

[pumping4life]

I had that Body Solid unit for many years and it was very nice. I used it alot and it was always smooth as butter.

If you're really set on the above units, I'd go with the Promaxima. They make really nice equipment at excellent prices.

[Tyciol]

I like how the first one can get a weight stack too, seems easier than changing plates or if it could do both.

Does anyone understand how the pulleys work in this? I'm still learning the physics of them so I can't tell whether or not this design would make it easier to pull the weight or not. It looks mobile but I'm not sure how it would work, lifting from 2 pulling points is confusing.

I know if the machine can be loaded high it doesn't really matter, but it does factor into the costs we pay for loading the machine. Like if I weigh 200lbs and want to do reps with half my weight, would I need 100lbs of weights or 200lbs or some other number?

[KBKB]

Does anyone understand how the pulleys work in this? I'm still learning the physics of them so I can't tell whether or not this design would make it easier to pull the weight or not. It looks mobile but I'm not sure how it would work, lifting from 2 pulling points is confusing.

I know if the machine can be loaded high it doesn't really matter, but it does factor into the costs we pay for loading the machine. Like if I weigh 200lbs and want to do reps with half my weight, would I need 100lbs of weights or 200lbs or some other number?

If the machine that you're referring to looks like this...



...then the pulleys in question do not confer any mechanical advantage. If you look closely at the end of the low row cable, you'll see a sort of "stopper ball". (I'm sure there's some technical name for it, but I do not know what it is, so I'll call it a stopper ball.) We can't see it, but there's also one for the lat pulldown as well.

When you pull on the lat bar, all pulleys will remain fixed in the positions that you see in the picture. There may be a slight amount of movement of that center pair of pulleys as the low row stopper ball settles into position, but that movement will be very slight. So, keeping in mind that those pair of pulleys remain fixed in position, you can follow the lat cable from where it attaches to the bar to where it attaches to the weight stack. Discounting cable stretch (which will be minor), a 1" movement in the cable at the lat bar end of the cable will result in a 1" movement at the weight stack or, indeed, at any point along the cable path.

Pulling on the low row cable is more interesting and more complicated, but I do not think that any mechanical advantage is gained here either. If you look at the photo, you can trace the low row cable from the handle end through three pulleys. The other end of the cable is anchored to the machine just above the lowest, rightmost pulley. When you pull on the low row cable, that middle pair of pulleys will descend 1" for each 1" pulled on the row handle(s). That in turn causes the upper cable to be pulled (on the right hand side) downward by the same amount. This in turn pulls the weight stack upwards. The net effect is that a 1" movement of the cable handle will also result in a 1" movement of the weight stack. (Discounting cable stretch and the seating of the lat stopper ball at the beginning of the movement.)

With this analysis complete, there are a couple of other things worth noting. When using the machine in the low row position, your range of motion will be limited by the distance between the low right hand pulley and the (lower) pair of pulleys in the middle. When using the lat pulldown, your range of motion is limited by the length of the cable from the weight stack to the uppermost pulley on the right hand side.

(Edit: To understand this stuff better, it's instructive to look at Wikipedia's Pulley page. If you look closely at each of the pulley systems which confer a mechanical advantage, you'll see that the one thing that they all have in common is that there is one or more pulleys attached to the load. That is clearly not the case here.)

[thedickus]

Out of the three you listed I really like the looks of the Pro Maxima one, especially if it comes with that padded seat for seated rows. I like the dual guide rods on it that the weights travel up and down, reminds me of PowerTec's lat pulldown. I also like the knee pads, they're not the foam rollers.
Regarding the BodySolid thats getting mentioned, I have an older one, approx 10 years old, that I bought off of Craigs List. It still works just fine, no binding at all with heavier weights (I've only had 200lbs on it and it was fine). Mine actually doesn't work as well with lighter weights, it binds and skips with around 20lbs for one arm cable raises. I like that its a no change option for the low row. I'm 6' and I've had a 6'2" workout partner have no ROM issues either. I'd highly recommend this one.

[Tyciol]

Thanks I'd read the wiki article on pulleys, I just couldn't recognize which of the kinds to associate with this. Your explanation has helped a bit in looking closer at how the cables are arranged to understand it better I think.

Would I be correct in thinking the double pulley in the middle would not move during the lat pulldown, but that it would move down during the low row?

[KBKB]

Would I be correct in thinking the double pulley in the middle would not move during the lat pulldown, but that it would move down during the low row?

Yes, that is correct.

[WorkingOnTheDream]

Just noticed that the nybb tower is the only one with adjustable seat

[RBLOCK]

I've narrowed things down to the following 3 lat towers. All of them have no changeover for low row (just grab handle and go, no cable changing).


http://www.christiansfitnessfactory....lldown-Machine $391.50

http://www.newyorkbarbells.com/4650.html $429

http://www.christiansfitnessfactory....t-Low-Row-FW-4 $471.15


I'd already asked about the NYBB one--someone said it wasn't great.

But in comparison, what are your thoughts on the others in comparison?



And this weekend I'll hopefully get started on my dumbbell table (thanks to all who gave ideas for that!).

I would definitely vote for promaxima. Prefer welded machines over bolted frames whenever you have the ability to get them into your workout space.