Had to Tweak Ripptoes, What do you think?

[Rion121]

Hey I've read alot of the forums lately and decided to try with Ripptoes program and see how it goes. First has anyone got experience with the program? Anyways, I had to change a few things mostly because of equipment. I dont have a squat rack and workout at home so I don't usually have a partner to help out either. As far as the cleans Im sure my form would be terrible for now and decided to change that as well. Well heres the list let me know what you think.

-Workout A-

Hack squat = 3x5
DB Bench = 3x5
Deadlift = 1x5
Zottman Curls = 3x5
Abs = 3 sets


-Workout B-

Hack Squat = 3x5
Military Press = 3x5
Bent Over Rows = 3x5
Chin-ups = 3x8
Abs = 3 sets

Any suggestions would be great or ideas of things to change. Mostly worried about changing squats to hack squat and didnt know how that would effect things. And for those who have tried the program what did you think about it?

[lovemyar15]

Starting strength uses specific exercises in a specific order for a reason. If you start messing with it you are defeating the purpose of achieving absolute maximum strength gains.

Where there is a will there is a way...I don't have a squat rack either, but I still figured out a way to do full range of motion squats.

Also, are you using dumb bells for the bench press? If so ditch that and do flat barbell bench.

[joelash302]

Hack squat is not a suitable replacement for a full squat. I'd really suggest finding a way to get a rack set up. There are some ways to set up a squat from the floor but they are tricky (clean it up) or require some super tough collars (can't remember the name of it, lift one side and get under the bar). Neither will get you the amount of weight you'll need up to your shoulders.

[PeterGibbons316]

If you really can't get a squat rack then a hack squat is the next best thing. But you are 22 years old. You should be able to find the means to acquire some sort of acceptable substitute.

Also, drop the curls, abs, and chinups to start. You can add them later if you really think you need to.

[IbramGaunt]

This is a problem I always found when asking for advice here. He says he cant do those two exercises and is looking for alternatives.

Obviously they won't be as good as the original program but when you are limited to what you can do its the next best alternative.

[lovemyar15]

This is a problem I always found when asking for advice here. He says he cant do those two exercises and is looking for alternatives.

Obviously they won't be as good as the original program but when you are limited to what you can do its the next best alternative.

Where there is a will there is a way...

I do squats by putting the bar on the dip station handles on the back of my old weider bench. You just have to keep weight on the leg extensions attachment to keep it from tipping...lol...of course this setup isn't ideal and I will not try to max out until I get a proper squat rack, but it is fine for the 3 X 5 required in starting strength.

You could build some sort of saw horse type setup or find a qualified welder and weld up a cheap rack.

People always ask for others opinions on their routine, but really they don't want to hear anything but...yes the routine is great man! lol...constructive criticism is the best thing ever. So I would say do what ever it takes to set up something so you can do squats!

[PeterGibbons316]

Also, are you using dumb bells for the bench press? If so ditch that and do flat barbell bench.

I don't necessarily agree with this. I believe Rippetoe has said that DB bench is the superior exercise, but barbell is used for it's simplicity in teaching to novice lifters. If all he can do is DB that will certainly work, and may even be better.

[Babycakes1013]

I don't necessarily agree with this. I believe Rippetoe has said that DB bench is the superior exercise, but barbell is used for it's simplicity in teaching to novice lifters. If all he can do is DB that will certainly work, and may even be better.

True Story. In the book pg. 67;

"The modern version of the bench press, like the squat, depends on a piece of equipment
other than the bar for its execution. Until the upright support bench came into widespread use in the 1950's, the bar had to be pulled into position while lying on the floor, or while lying on a flat bench pulled up from the floor over the head into position over the chest. Controversy abounded as technique was evolving, with questions about the legitimacy of assistance in getting the bar into position, the use of a heave from the belly, even the use of an arch in the lower back, causing debate among physical culturists all over the world. Nowadays, the bench-press bench is standard equipment, and only a few innovative thinkers in the powerlifting community bother with doing the exercise the old, harder, and probably better, way. After all, the more involved the exercise, the more the exercise involves, in terms of muscle, nerve, and control.

In fact, the dumbbell version of the exercise, which actually predates the barbell version
due to its less specialized equipment requirements, is probably a better exercise for most purposes other than training for a powerlifting competition. This is especially true if the weights used are sufficiently heavy to challenge your ability to actually finish the set. Most trainees use them as a light assistance movement, and never appreciate how hard they are or how useful they can be. They are performed on a simple flat bench, and taking the dumbbells out of the rack or off the floor, getting into position on the flat bench, and getting up with them after the set is finished is a large parr of the exercise. Dumbbells — being not tied together between the hands as with a barbell - require more active, conscious control, are harder to do, and are therefore less commonly done. There is a one-handed version, in which only one dumbbell is used, that requires a tremendous amount of core strength to just stay on the bench."

[PhiSig2298]

This isn't really a tweak on SS. It's more like "I took a couple of lifts from Rippetoe's and then added my own thing."


I've seen it too many times

[dday39]

Exactly.

Why can't people just say here are my goals and these are the means by which I will try to acheive said goals? What's your opinion?

It's not Starting Strength.

[ThickAsABrick]

oh noes! u changezored the program! its sanctity is ruined! anyone else doing it will longer be able to achieve the same gainz!

[angelofangle]

Hey I've read alot of the forums lately and decided to try with Ripptoes program and see how it goes. First has anyone got experience with the program? Anyways, I had to change a few things mostly because of equipment. I dont have a squat rack and workout at home so I don't usually have a partner to help out either. As far as the cleans Im sure my form would be terrible for now and decided to change that as well. Well heres the list let me know what you think.

-Workout A-

Hack squat = 3x5
DB Bench = 3x5
Deadlift = 1x5
Zottman Curls = 3x5
Abs = 3 sets


-Workout B-

Hack Squat = 3x5
Military Press = 3x5
Bent Over Rows = 3x5
Chin-ups = 3x8
Abs = 3 sets

Any suggestions would be great or ideas of things to change. Mostly worried about changing squats to hack squat and didnt know how that would effect things. And for those who have tried the program what did you think about it?

Sure like your bicep a lot... You're doing an isolation bicep exercise + 2 compound that works your bicep(Bent Row and Chin Up)

This isn't SS.

Hack squats are doable.

[FastCatChamp]

In before YND........oh wait........nevermind.

[Farley1324]

This isn't really a tweak on SS. It's more like "I took a couple of lifts from Rippetoe's and then added my own thing."


I've seen it too many times

Agree

[justroberson]

True Story. In the book pg. 67;

In fact, the dumbbell version of the exercise, which actually predates the barbell version
due to its less specialized equipment requirements, is probably a better exercise for most purposes other than training for a powerlifting competition. This is especially true if the weights used are sufficiently heavy to challenge your ability to actually finish the set. Most trainees use them as a light assistance movement, and never appreciate how hard they are or how useful they can be. They are performed on a simple flat bench, and taking the dumbbells out of the rack or off the floor, getting into position on the flat bench, and getting up with them after the set is finished is a large parr of the exercise. Dumbbells — being not tied together between the hands as with a barbell - require more active, conscious control, are harder to do, and are therefore less commonly done. There is a one-handed version, in which only one dumbbell is used, that requires a tremendous amount of core strength to just stay on the bench."

I see your dumbbell quote from SS, and raise you this from a discussion of the upcoming 3rd ed. of SSBBT:

the sentence that says that dumbbell bench presses are probably a better exercise than barbell benches should be excised. That little throw-away line has caused more heartache and confusion than any other part of the book.

Yeah, that's was removed from the manuscript with a vicious slap. Some other stuff too.

Nom sayin

[brudman]

Just because it's different from Starting Strength doesn't mean it won't be lucrative.

OP, do your program. Make steady progress. Add weight to the bar/reps to your sets. Eat and get bigger like everyone else. You have to start somewhere.

There is a level of elitism on the internet and it's usually by guys who really haven't taken the time to understand why they do what they do, but rather that someone who "knows what they're talking about" has said.

Go for it, and tweak it as you go to make sure you are getting bigger and stronger.

[RainingBlood]

Get a squat rack. The only ever modifications I've EVER made to SS was using a wide stance on the squat, and doing hang cleans instead of full power cleans.

[Rion121]

I see some people don't like the set up lol.
Everything I listed in my routine was found from "Guide to Novice Barbell Training, aka the Official RIPPETOE-STARTING STRENGTH FAQ" from this thread (htt p://forum. bodybuilding.c om/showthread.php ?t=998224). The only things is that I'm not waiting the 2 suggested weeks before adding the Bis, chin-ups, and abs. Another thing that is changed is the major change and that is taking away the squat and replacing a hack squat. I've looked all over the forums for a "decent" replacement knowing that nothing can replace the original squat. I dont want to rig up no squat rack from bricks, dressers, bookshelves or anything else that I've read people doing. That sounds like an injury waiting to happen and I cant afford an injury. So the major question here is what can be used to as closely as possible imitate the squat?

[Rion121]

Just because it's different from Starting Strength doesn't mean it won't be lucrative.

OP, do your program. Make steady progress. Add weight to the bar/reps to your sets. Eat and get bigger like everyone else. You have to start somewhere.

There is a level of elitism on the internet and it's usually by guys who really haven't taken the time to understand why they do what they do, but rather that someone who "knows what they're talking about" has said.

Go for it, and tweak it as you go to make sure you are getting bigger and stronger.

Thanks man

[brosrus]

Rion121, the program you have laid out is fine. Now you just need to do it consistently while eating at a small calorie surplus and you will do well over time.

Hack squats might not be as good as normal barbell back squats but they are fine if you really can't get access to a rack. DB bench is as someone else pointed out possibly even better than BB Bench, the only problem is you can't progress as easily because dumbbells have bigger jumps between sizes compared to the smallest barbell plates.

Just because it's different from Starting Strength doesn't mean it won't be lucrative.

OP, do your program. Make steady progress. Add weight to the bar/reps to your sets. Eat and get bigger like everyone else. You have to start somewhere.

There is a level of elitism on the internet and it's usually by guys who really haven't taken the time to understand why they do what they do, but rather that someone who "knows what they're talking about" has said.

Go for it, and tweak it as you go to make sure you are getting bigger and stronger.

I totally agree. Just because Mark Rippetoe has a YNDTFP program attitude, all his disciples think they are cool by copying his attitude. Will adding curls really be the end of the world? No, it might make his biceps grow faster though. His program is better than 90% of what people in gyms are doing.

So he is calling it a modification of Starting Strength so what? It's still the same types of exercises, they are still all compound free weight exercises, targeting similar muscles in the same order plus some assistance. He just has modifications because he doesn't have access to certain equipment. Get over yourselves.

[Rion121]

Rion121, the program you have laid out is fine. Now you just need to do it consistently while eating at a small calorie surplus and you will do well over time.

Hack squats might not be as good as normal barbell back squats but they are fine if you really can't get access to a rack. DB bench is as someone else pointed out possibly even better than BB Bench, the only problem is you can't progress as easily because dumbbells have bigger jumps between sizes compared to the smallest barbell plates.



I totally agree. Just because Mark Rippetoe has a YNDTFP program attitude, all his disciples think they are cool by copying his attitude. Will adding curls really be the end of the world? No, it might make his biceps grow faster though. His program is better than 90% of what people in gyms are doing.

So he is calling it a modification of Starting Strength so what? It's still the same types of exercises, they are still all compound free weight exercises, targeting similar muscles in the same order plus some assistance. He just has modifications because he doesn't have access to certain equipment. Get over yourselves.

hey thanks man. I use the DBs that you use plates for since it was cheaper to buy plates that could be used for multiple things and not regular DBs. Hoping that should allow me to add small weight at a time and not jump so much.

[PhiSig2298]

To me, there's too much on the biceps and not enough tricep work.

Biceps: curls, chins and rows
Triceps: bench and military


You obviously want bigger arms because you added curls. Why not have more tricep exercises instead of biceps?

[Rion121]

To me, there's too much on the biceps and not enough tricep work.

Biceps: curls, chins and rows
Triceps: bench and military


You obviously want bigger arms because you added curls. Why not have more tricep exercises instead of biceps?

I could do that. Any ideas? The thread I read all this on said that you could add Bis and a pull-up of some form and I just choose chin-ups because they feel more comfortable for me. Should I do another form of pull-ups instead?
Lol of course I want the big arms and 6-pack like everybody else but I know it takes time and was just tryin to follow what the thread guide I read said. (besides the two week waiting period since i've been lifting isolation and doing p90x videos on and off for awhile now) I'm mostly interested in gaining some mass right now which is why I choose this program. I've lost the weight I wanted and want to bulk now. THanks for the reply!

[tarhiggins]

Hey I've read alot of the forums lately and decided to try with Ripptoes program and see how it goes. First has anyone got experience with the program? Anyways, I had to change a few things mostly because of equipment. I dont have a squat rack and workout at home so I don't usually have a partner to help out either. As far as the cleans Im sure my form would be terrible for now and decided to change that as well. Well heres the list let me know what you think.

-Workout A-

Hack squat = 3x5
DB Bench = 3x5
Deadlift = 1x5
Zottman Curls = 3x5
Abs = 3 sets


-Workout B-

Hack Squat = 3x5
Military Press = 3x5
Bent Over Rows = 3x5
Chin-ups = 3x8
Abs = 3 sets

Any suggestions would be great or ideas of things to change. Mostly worried about changing squats to hack squat and didnt know how that would effect things. And for those who have tried the program what did you think about it?

You just sinned against 90% of BB.com's community by changing it YNDTP

[Farley1324]

Will adding curls really be the end of the world?

It's still the same types of exercises, they are still all compound free weight exercises,

You sure about that?

Note that I agree some curls won't destroy the program...but you should be more accurate in your statements.

[PeterGibbons316]

I could do that. Any ideas? The thread I read all this on said that you could add Bis and a pull-up of some form and I just choose chin-ups because they feel more comfortable for me. Should I do another form of pull-ups instead?
Lol of course I want the big arms and 6-pack like everybody else but I know it takes time and was just tryin to follow what the thread guide I read said. (besides the two week waiting period since i've been lifting isolation and doing p90x videos on and off for awhile now) I'm mostly interested in gaining some mass right now which is why I choose this program. I've lost the weight I wanted and want to bulk now. THanks for the reply!

Do dips instead of curls....after at least 3 weeks.

[Rion121]

Thanks for the replies guys. This is what I wanted was advice on the routine and what to change not just to hear people bash it, really I know its tempting to bash yet another forum newb but help is all I wanted and I got some great replies. Thanks again. I'm taking everyones posts into consideration but I'm still going to try it with hack squats sorry, Like I said I dont have a rack and Im not into rigging my sofa with some blocks and a bookcase to make one lol. One of these days ill drive the 30 minutes to the nearest gym and workout but for now my spare bedroom and craigslist equipment will do me

[Farley1324]

That's fine, but I suggest that you do keep watching craiglist. All the time. Like, every day. From now until you can get a decent power rack or squat rack. They do appear from time to time.

[PeterGibbons316]

I agree with Farley. If you can get a decent power rack your lifting experience will be much better. I decided a couple months ago that I needed to start doing squats but didn't have a power rack or anywhere to put one. I started doing hack squats, but in the mean time did some research on putting in a home gym in my basement, and just last week I finally got my power rack. The hack squats worked really well for me, but doing the back squats in the rack is much, much better.

Good luck to you!

[VolsGoneWild]

I'm really passionate about two lifts:
Deadlifts
Dips

To see dips removed from a program is honestly a heartbreaker.