Syria's Assad facing dissent over Deraa crackdown

[stevensouri]

The only thing that could be worse than the Syrian government is civil war, and if the government doesn't leave peacefully that's exactly what will happen.

So the smart thing to do is for them to take the billions of dollars they stole and run away and never show their faces again. We'll consider the money they stole as a buy out ransom. Then Syrians can establish a fair government and progress like the rest of the world.

As a Syrian, you should know that the country only gets poorer and worse each year, not better. He and his father used to promise reforms each year. Making bread and diesel cheaper and then raising prices the next year is not a real change. These are games being played to keep people fed and silent.

What kind of country in the 21st century still cuts electricity and water? Is that a decent living for humans? The Syrian government has proven it is NOT Syrian, it hates Syrians because it treats them like animals, but wants to plaster its posters all over town.

With the exception of North Korea, I've never actually seen a real country exemplify the government depicted in Orwell's 1984 like the Assad dictatorship. Actually, technologically speaking, North Korea is at least 20 years ahead of Syria!

i hear on syria being in the stone age, it was pretty annoying when i was these with all the power and water cuts.

i love that country,man. i just dont want to see it change for the worse.

if these was a guarantee for the new elected leader to keep everyone's freedoms the same and enhance the country then i would be all for it. just scared of change.

my uncle lives in Lebanon like a few hours away and tells me its like America pretty much./

[Blindead]

I was responding to the idea that you can always find people who are unhappy under any type of government. But you have to take into account the relative numbers of such individuals, and not merely average out the opinions as "some people thought they were great" but "some people thought they were bad" so they were mediocre on average. Depending on who your critics are, you can still be doing a great job in spite of the criticism.



Not randomly torturing them and killing them and silencing critics through kidnappings and vandalism, as their current government has been doing to others for the last 40 years.

It shouldn't be that hard to avoid abusing people on a regular basis just to maintain power, and if you have to do that, you are a failure of a government.

That's not an average. When I say average I mean in the sense (obviously this isn't practical, but we're speaking in hypotheticals) of a poll. Obviously if 99 people are happy out of 100 then you don't do it 50/50.

And I'm trying to get a sense of what type of society you envision for Syria in the future. Tolerant to all denominations or not?

As a Syrian, you should know that the country only gets poorer and worse each year, not better. He and his father used to promise reforms each year. Making bread and diesel cheaper and then raising prices the next year is not a real change. These are games being played to keep people fed and silent.

Well, to be fair, the GDP of Syria has increased almost 4 fold in the past 10 years,

[SYRIANKID]

That's not an average. When I say average I mean in the sense (obviously this isn't practical, but we're speaking in hypotheticals) of a poll. Obviously if 99 people are happy out of 100 then you don't do it 50/50.

And I'm trying to get a sense of what type of society you envision for Syria in the future. Tolerant to all denominations or not?

I envision an industrious society with excellent education, free economy, and secret police not breaking down your door at night to shoot you in the brain for speaking against the government.

Well, to be fair, the GDP of Syria has increased almost 4 fold in the past 10 years,

Inflation rate has gone from 2.5% to 16%.

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=71&c=sy&l=en

House price inflation rate is top 10 in the world

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10189929

GDP/capita is weak. It hasn't grown with GDP, and compare that to neighboring countries. Syria has one of the highest population growth rates in the Middle East.

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/M...gdp-per-capita

Don't forget Syria is an oil and gas economy from which the government completely siphons off.

[stevensouri]

I envision an industrious society with excellent education, free economy, and secret police not breaking down your door at night to shoot you in the brain for speaking against the government.

man, i dont doubt it happens. but have never heard of anyone getting killed by the secret police and when i go to syria everyone is happy and goes to work,comes back to their kids and have dinner. sure there was always talk of the mu5aburat and stuff but you never heard real stories.

everyone kept quiet about politics but that because it wasn't really a priority for them as i saw it. and the education in syria is awesome, some of the best doctors are from there.

[ZenBowman]

man, i dont doubt it happens. but have never heard of anyone getting killed by the secret police and when i go to syria everyone is happy and goes to work,comes back to their kids and have dinner. sure there was always talk of the mu5aburat and stuff but you never heard real stories.

People are probably happy in Syria because they have a positive pro-family Levantine culture which is not overly ideological like the Khaleeji states. It likely has very little to do with the state.

I am just making an educated guess based on my interactions with Syrians, all the ones I've met prioritized education and family without being overly dogmatic. By comparison to Khaleejis they are very enlightened (even though Khaleejis are awesome in their own way, but they are like the rednecks of the Arab world IMO).

[SYRIANKID]

http://gulfnews.com/news/region/syri...tures-1.813782

Protesters burn Nasrallah's pictures

Protesters on Friday burned pictures of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah in the Syrian city of Albu Kamal on the Iraqi border.

Nasrallah's speech in Beirut this week in support of Syrian President Bashar Al Assad infuriated demonstrators and activists, a tribal leader in the province said by phone, adding security forces had withdrawn from the streets of Albu Kamal. Syrian security forces fired at two protests in the eastern province of Deir Al Zor yesterday as demonstrations demanding the removal of President Bashar Al Assad swept the tribal area, residents and activists said.

[Dave22reborn]

I cant say much on this situation, it seems so wierd, maybe 8-12 years ago they were talking about regime change for Syria (USA was) but they said it would be hard because this president (ASSAD) i am assuming was actualy loved by the people.

Now he is a bloodthirsty killer like the rest of them? GHadafi used planes on citizens.. now this guy rolls in tanks? then there are reports of snipers shooting women and children, rollin up on people with large vehicles.. now nato's bombion the hell out of tripoli.

My theory is this WHOLE revolution is merely US stiring trouble and comming in sweeping up the mess and or pockets of resistance. After all Iraq has trained their soldiers well in dealing with chaotic situations.

Craps crazy.

People aren't tired of their governments in the middle east, its Israel and the US who are behind the whole thing......

[US_Ranger]

I envision an industrious society with excellent education, free economy, and secret police not breaking down your door at night to shoot you in the brain for speaking against the government.

How is that compatible with Shariah law? If you speak against the theocratic government of Sharia law or make any remark about the prophet, what happens to you?

[chashma1]

People aren't tired of their governments in the middle east, its Israel and the US who are behind the whole thing......

i hope this is a joke.

[SYRIANKID]

How is that compatible with Shariah law? If you speak against the theocratic government of Sharia law or make any remark about the prophet, what happens to you?

In my quote, I read myself saying "speak about the government" while you are asking me about God and the Prophet (pbuh).

You can criticize an Islamic government until you are blue in the face. But if you rally just to insult God and the Prophets (pbut), wear a helmet.

Also, a "theocratic" government is not so totalitarian. It doesn't need to operate spy rings, it doesn't torture and jail people for no reason and without trial, it doesn't barge into your home for confessions, it doesn't ask for a cut in your business etc. etc.

Any government has ways of influencing you to obey its laws (think U.S. government and the power of the IRS)

[Dave22reborn]

i hope this is a joke.

I'm mocking the guy who believes this.

[SYRIANKID]

[US_Ranger]

In my quote, I read myself saying "speak about the government" while you are asking me about God and the Prophet (pbuh).

You can criticize an Islamic government until you are blue in the face. But if you rally just to insult God and the Prophets (pbut), wear a helmet.

Also, a "theocratic" government is not so totalitarian. It doesn't need to operate spy rings, it doesn't torture and jail people for no reason and without trial, it doesn't barge into your home for confessions, it doesn't ask for a cut in your business etc. etc.

Any government has ways of influencing you to obey its laws (think U.S. government and the power of the IRS)

Democratic governments aren't supposed to have spy rings that raid homes either yet it happens in every government. A theocratic government would be no different and to think otherwise is beyond any sort of rational idealism. Also, any government that kills you for leaving the state sponsored religion would have no room to talk about secret police or any other act of terror.

[SYRIANKID]

Democratic governments aren't supposed to have spy rings that raid homes either yet it happens in every government. A theocratic government would be no different and to think otherwise is beyond any sort of rational idealism. Also, any government that kills you for leaving the state sponsored religion would have no room to talk about secret police or any other act of terror.

I disagree, and by your line of thinking, we can say that any government that wages wars which involve bombarding innocent civilians also has no room to talk about secret police or any act of terror, and yet I just described the U.S. and Europe to name a few self-described democratic and free areas of the world.

You're not going to get everyone in the world to agree with you about any law. There are peaceful, democratic, and economically/technologically successful countries that beat you for littering or kill you for drug-dealing. You could make the same argument against them just because you disagree with their laws. That doesn't give you the right to silence criticism about secret police and acts of terror just because you disagree with some other laws the country holds.

Here's a summary: just because you can find some law in a country that you disagree with doesn't mean you can say "well you might as well just torture/murder whoever you want". Being a little "barbaric" in your eyes doesn't mean you might as well go all out and have a genocide.

[LostInTheKHole]

Being a little "barbaric" in your eyes doesn't mean you might as well go all out and have a genocide.

Aren't Syrian Sunnis going to murder off Christians
and Alawites
for not being orthodox Muslims
once Bashar is gone?

[stevensouri]

Aren't Syrian Sunnis going to murder off Christians
and Alawites
for not being orthodox Muslims
once Bashar is gone?

wow, a bit extreme.

but personally i believe religions other than sunni might be more restricted depending on who is in control.

thats why i would rather have bushrock stay in power but change his ways. maybe impossible

[LostInTheKHole]

wow, a bit extreme.

but personally i believe religions other than sunni might be more restricted depending on who is in control.

thats why i would rather have bushrock stay in power but change his ways. maybe impossible

Syrian Sunnis are known for their extreme conservatism
Look at this guy

A Syrian Sunni who supported al-Qaeda
SyrianKID, what you think of Omar Bakri?

[SYRIANKID]

Aren't Syrian Sunnis going to murder off Christians
and Alawites
for not being orthodox Muslims
once Bashar is gone?

No, and if that was an official policy you would have seen it documented somewhere (religiously) or at least would have seen widespread murders already take place where Sunnis are in power (or have been for centuries).

The reality is that only insane, sectarian dictatorships murder people like that.

[LostInTheKHole]

No, and if that was an official policy you would have seen it documented somewhere (religiously) or at least would have seen widespread murders already take place where Sunnis are in power (or have been for centuries).

Ottomans
Mughals
Almohids
Mamelukes
Timurids
Wut do they all have in common?
Sunni empires who have done widespread massacres

[SYRIANKID]

Ottomans
Mughals
Almohids
Mamelukes
Timurids
Wut do they all have in common?
Sunni empires who have done widespread massacres

They did a terrible job if their goal was to wipe out anyone who disagreed with their beliefs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millet_(Ottoman_Empire)

[stevensouri]

They did a terrible job if their goal was to wipe out anyone who disagreed with their beliefs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millet_(Ottoman_Empire)

SK, lets just say the truth that there is a big possibilty that syria will be harder to live in for the christians.

it may or may not happen, maybe the new leader wants shariah law? im sure there is enough people who would vote for it.

[SYRIANKID]

SK, lets just say the truth that there is a big possibilty that syria will be harder to live in for the christians.

it may or may not happen, maybe the new leader wants shariah law? im sure there is enough people who would vote for it.

My honest opinion is that life will definitely be hard for anyone who is currently supporting the corrupt regime.

As for anyone else, I can only see an improved standard of living since Syria won't be a Socialist dump anymore.

[LostInTheKHole]

They did a terrible job if their goal was to wipe out anyone who disagreed with their beliefs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millet_(Ottoman_Empire)

Are you honestly going to tell me
that Ottomans were tolerant
to "heretical" Muslim groups?

[stevensouri]

My honest opinion is that life will definitely be hard for anyone who is currently supporting the corrupt regime.

As for anyone else, I can only see an improved standard of living since Syria won't be a Socialist dump anymore.

i pray that you are right,brother

especially since bashar cant go on like this for much longer, somethings gotta give and soon.

[Blindead]

I envision an industrious society with excellent education, free economy, and secret police not breaking down your door at night to shoot you in the brain for speaking against the government.

You keep avoiding the question. If you don't want to address it then I guess I have to assume you don't envision or welcome a tolerant society where minorities are treated equally.

[SYRIANKID]

Are you honestly going to tell me
that Ottomans were tolerant
to "heretical" Muslim groups?

Far more tolerant than your sensationalist accusations, yes. Still waiting for that "kill them all before they kill us" policy to surface.

[LostInTheKHole]

Far more tolerant than your sensationalist accusations, yes. Still waiting for that "kill them all before they kill us" policy to surface.

Oh God
You also think the Armenian Genocide never happened
do you?

[SYRIANKID]

Oh God
You also think the Armenian Genocide never happened
do you?

Wait a minute, hadn't Armenians (and Christians in general) been living under the Ottomans for nearly 600 years? If the Ottomans, as your story goes, had a policy of killing heretics and staging wide-spread massacres of minorities, why were they so late on that one?

These empires fought plenty of wars, no doubt, and as far as I know, some Armenians joined Russia in its war against the Ottomans. That's a far less interesting story than the one you were trying to paint a second ago about mass-murdering minorities for the sake of killing minorities and (different people).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...o-Turkish_wars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia...Ottoman_Empire

[stevensouri]

i just wish there was no extremism and ultimate freedom, its getting annoying having to deal with these things.

[byrontel]

Oh God
You also think the Armenian Genocide never happened do you?

His logic: The Armenians were not completely wiped out though they had been living under the Ottomans for 600 years! The Ottomans were so tolerant!

Wait a minute, hadn't Armenians (and Christians in general) been living under the Ottomans for nearly 600 years? If the Ottomans, as your story goes, had a policy of killing heretics and staging wide-spread massacres of minorities, why were they so late on that one?