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  1. #1
    The Alchemist badreligion's Avatar
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    Weight training routine to help with Muay Thai ?

    I was just wondering if anybody could give me sample weight lifting routines and tips to help me in Muay Thai . I am gonna lift twice a week mainly upper body because the stuff they have me do in class is enough for legs so I just am curious what kind of weight lifting routine I can use to improve conditioning as well as power .

    Any help is appreciated .
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  2. #2
    โ ด ย ไ ม่ ต้ อ ง ก ลั ว Von Brawn's Avatar
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    Squat, deadlift, bench press, kettle bell and repeat
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    Originally Posted by Von Brawn View Post
    Squat, deadlift, bench press, kettle bell and repeat
    That is if you are training for strength and lots of clinching.. but what you really need is speed/endurance!

    4x30's
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    Registered User lovemyar15's Avatar
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    If you are doing just muay thai and not planning on doing mma than I would say mostly body weight or medicine ball exercises. Nothing will make you kick harder than throwing kicks with proper technique over and over again. Nothing will improve punching power as much as proper technique.

    Even the muay thai clinch can be controlled with proper technique against a stronger man. Although height is a serious advantage in the clinch because of leverage.

    Remember the Franklin vs Silva fights? Anderson completely controlled Franklin in the clinch because he has better muay thai and has probably spent alot of time over the years working the clinch. It isn't because he is that much stronger than Franklin.
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  5. #5
    Registered User drpurple's Avatar
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    ^what he said.

    as cliche as it sounds, lifting can actually be quite counter-productive to muay thai.

    of course, kettlebell work, bodyweight exercises...that sort of stuff could help
    dont be bitchin about somebody not being a mexican while ignoring someone who isnt irish.
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  6. #6
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    It's good enough for your legs but not your upper body? Come on...you just don't wanna train legs
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by lovemyar15 View Post
    If you are doing just muay thai and not planning on doing mma than I would say mostly body weight or medicine ball exercises. Nothing will make you kick harder than throwing kicks with proper technique over and over again. Nothing will improve punching power as much as proper technique.

    Even the muay thai clinch can be controlled with proper technique against a stronger man. Although height is a serious advantage in the clinch because of leverage.

    Remember the Franklin vs Silva fights? Anderson completely controlled Franklin in the clinch because he has better muay thai and has probably spent alot of time over the years working the clinch. It isn't because he is that much stronger than Franklin.
    Actually silva is huge and is very very very strong. He also lifts more than he trains muay thai at this point in his career. The dudes arms are as big as my head

    saw him in cincy once

    but i digress

    my gym travels to thailand once a year. All they do is run and bodyweight exercises

    and they train 4 hrs a day

    hit the bag hard, do countless push ups, pull ups, body/jump squats, train diligently.
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  8. #8
    Registered User lovemyar15's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ftwrestler View Post
    Actually silva is huge and is very very very strong. He also lifts more than he trains muay thai at this point in his career. The dudes arms are as big as my head

    saw him in cincy once

    but i digress

    my gym travels to thailand once a year. All they do is run and bodyweight exercises

    and they train 4 hrs a day

    hit the bag hard, do countless push ups, pull ups, body/jump squats, train diligently.
    I'm sure he is very very very strong...lol...but I doubt it's from doing a body building routine. I've seen him do a little bit with free weights, but it was very light stuff. I've never seen a muay thai gym that did anything but body weight exercise myself.

    Proper thai clinch against someone less experienced in the clinch will have them feeling very weak regardless of how much they bench(of course height advantage is huge in the clinch). The little things like grasping the back of the head instead of the neck...not interlocking fingers...keeping elbows in tight while pulling down on head...pulling downwards at angles you can almost put them where ever you want because you take the spine out of alignment taking away their power. When you control the head you control the body.

    You can do something similar to a wrestlers pummel drill working for underhooks. To get clinch work practice getting into the clinch and pummel under for inside position always fighting for inside position. If you keep the head pulled down and elbows in tight it makes it hard for your opponent to get inside position.
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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by lovemyar15 View Post
    I'm sure he is very very very strong...lol...but I doubt it's from doing a body building routine. I've seen him do a little bit with free weights, but it was very light stuff. I've never seen a muay thai gym that did anything but body weight exercise myself.

    Proper thai clinch against someone less experienced in the clinch will have them feeling very weak regardless of how much they bench(of course height advantage is huge in the clinch). The little things like grasping the back of the head instead of the neck...not interlocking fingers...keeping elbows in tight while pulling down on head...pulling downwards at angles you can almost put them where ever you want because you take the spine out of alignment taking away their power. When you control the head you control the body.

    You can do something similar to a wrestlers pummel drill working for underhooks. To get clinch work practice getting into the clinch and pummel under for inside position always fighting for inside position. If you keep the head pulled down and elbows in tight it makes it hard for your opponent to get inside position.
    that dude was tossing around 225 like it was nothing on a smith machine in one of his vids for what ever that show is they do....countdown! i remembered lol

    i know he does not not do a bodybuilding program

    He does a maximal force/endurance rountine from what i can tell in his vids.

    MMA requires a little bit of weight training at the minimum. but thai you can definately only work with your body. I know for a fact that the best thai guys in the world do work with weights. Saeksons gym in texas they use weights.
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  10. #10
    Registered User lovemyar15's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ftwrestler View Post
    that dude was tossing around 225 like it was nothing on a smith machine in one of his vids for what ever that show is they do....countdown! i remembered lol

    i know he does not not do a bodybuilding program

    He does a maximal force/endurance rountine from what i can tell in his vids.

    MMA requires a little bit of weight training at the minimum. but thai you can definately only work with your body. I know for a fact that the best thai guys in the world do work with weights. Saeksons gym in texas they use weights.
    Can you post a link to the video of Anderson training? He has been my favorite for many years I always love to watch him train.

    Certainly anything you can do to improve explosive strength would be beneficial and I'm not against weight training for muay thai. I'm just saying that when it boils down to it technique beats strength. When technique is equal the stronger fighter has the advantage for sure.

    Heck what am I talking about I don't even fight anymore I'm just an old guy that lifts weights now to maintain my strength and stay as healthy as possible...lol...I probably couldn't handle a full on muay thai training session right now.
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    Originally Posted by lovemyar15 View Post
    Can you post a link to the video of Anderson training? He has been my favorite for many years I always love to watch him train.

    Certainly anything you can do to improve explosive strength would be beneficial and I'm not against weight training for muay thai. I'm just saying that when it boils down to it technique beats strength. When technique is equal the stronger fighter has the advantage for sure.

    Heck what am I talking about I don't even fight anymore I'm just an old guy that lifts weights now to maintain my strength and stay as healthy as possible...lol...I probably couldn't handle a full on muay thai training session right now.
    i know it was for one of his recent fights, but i can't post a vid because i am at work.

    im sure if you make a thread requesting some of andersons ufc unleashed some one will help you

    and yes i agree

    technique>>>conditioning/strength

    but if you are in terrible shape you will never get a chance to use it

    balance in training is the most important thing
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  12. #12
    Mod of Patience...lol cgc's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ftwrestler View Post
    i know it was for one of his recent fights, but i can't post a vid because i am at work.

    im sure if you make a thread requesting some of andersons ufc unleashed some one will help you

    and yes i agree

    technique>>>conditioning/strength

    but if you are in terrible shape you will never get a chance to use it

    balance in training is the most important thing
    Pththth....you don't know what you're talking about..
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    Originally Posted by cgc View Post
    Pththth....you don't know what you're talking about..
    ....god damn it
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    Originally Posted by LetusBeReality View Post
    That is if you are training for strength and lots of clinching.. but what you really need is speed/endurance!

    4x30's
    Shut. The fck. Up.
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    Not train your legs?! Really?!

    I guess that's why football players, sprinters, basketball players, etc... Never train their legs. Just makes them slow.

    Strength is ALWAYS a good thing. IMO mma is very behind as far as strength and conditioning are concerned.
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    Originally Posted by DefendDadeCo View Post
    Not train your legs?! Really?!

    I guess that's why football players, sprinters, basketball players, etc... Never train their legs. Just makes them slow.

    Strength is ALWAYS a good thing. IMO mma is very behind as far as strength and conditioning are concerned.
    most of the leg conditioning comes from running/sprinting hills, jump squats

    and most of all kicking

    and MMA is on the forefront of conditioning to be honest. It has started alot of trends for all other sports. because of the diversity of activity that takes place IN mma because it has a multitude of applications.

    Tire/sledhammers became mainstream
    Wearing a breathing apparatus became main stream
    caveman/300 style workouts become mainstream

    a whole brand of fitness was created because of MMA

    GSP fit
    Bas Rutten has his own fitness routine
    MMA style bootcamps and fitness classes are everywhere now
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    I'm sorry but I disagree. Tireflips (btw you use your legs for tire flips) and sledgehammers have been around forever.

    Just because something is mainstream doesn't mean it is effective.

    If you wanna be strong, you gotta lift heavy to elicit the appropriate musculoskeletal and neurologic adaptations. Hill sprints, although an effective supplemental exercise and great conditioning tool will not overload the system as efficiently as a heavy squat and/or deadlift.

    Conditioning all though extremely important is ONE component of what makes an effective fighter. Strength, power, technique are equally important as well.
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    Originally Posted by DefendDadeCo View Post
    I'm sorry but I disagree. Tireflips (btw you use your legs for tire flips) and sledgehammers have been around forever.

    Just because something is mainstream doesn't mean it is effective.

    If you wanna be strong, you gotta lift heavy to elicit the appropriate musculoskeletal and neurologic adaptations. Hill sprints, although an effective supplemental exercise and great conditioning tool will not overload the system as efficiently as a heavy squat and/or deadlift.

    Conditioning all though extremely important is ONE component of what makes an effective fighter. Strength, power, technique are equally important as well.
    1: i ****ing know that tireflips work your legs, i am stating that they were MAINSTREAMED by mma. It does not matter that they have been around forever, people did not regularly know about it until now
    2: everything i listed there IS and has been proven to BE effective, im not sure where that part of your "argument" comes from
    3: no **** if you want to be strong you have to lift heavy. Exercises science at the kindergarden level teaches that. No one is refuting the importance of strength training, but in this thread...we are talking about resistance training...training dealing with...resistance. Bodyweight IS resistance, therefore qualifies as resistance training. And in thailand, that is a the main staple for training Muay Thai. working with your own bodyweight. The way they become strong in the clinch, punching, and kicking, is by practising technique. (which you were so kind to point out the obvious) that it is important

    im not sure what you are trying to be right about, but i dont think you quite understand what is going on in this thread. Please do no cite exercises science 101 at me again or i will get really really really pissed off, because that is what i do. I get pissed off in this forum. Ask anyone. I will ruin the **** out of this thread.

    The OP wanted to know about weight training for thai boxing. It has been established in the thread that bodyweight is predominatly used in Muay Thai for weight training. And as shown by the fact that most of the best thai boxers come from thai land, it is effective in that reguard. While strength training is benificial to all sports, it is not widely used in Thailand. If the op wants to do that then he will. What he does not need is some one spouting off random knowledge about MMA training (totally different sport) and stating the obvious about random training methods.

    /rant
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    I cite exercise 101 cause I'm obviously dealing with someone who is a child.

    The fact that you are inferring that mma mainstreamed the tireflip is debatable at best and can be easily refuted. Who's not to say that football players mainstreamed the tireflip or strongman or cricket players. This has to be the most ridiculous point someone has ever made.

    Everything you listed has proven to be effective? Can you give me one peer-reviewed study stating that bodyweight exercises Were more effective at precipitating strength gains than those same movements using weight?

    Btw practicing technique doesn't get you strong. Yes you will have better neuromuscular coordination which in turn elicits a more effective punch, kick, clinch, etc... But guess what: strengthening my hip rotators, hip extensors, trunk rotators, plus practicing my technique elicits an even MORE effective punch, kick, and/or clinch.

    In conclusion, you're a phaggot. Have a nice day
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    ok dip****, i am going to make this quick
    Originally Posted by DefendDadeCo View Post
    I cite exercise 101 cause I'm obviously dealing with someone who is a child.

    The fact that you are inferring that mma mainstreamed the tireflip is debatable at best and can be easily refuted. Who's not to say that football players mainstreamed the tireflip or strongman or cricket players. This has to be the most ridiculous point someone has ever made.
    you cite 101 because that is extent your education aka wikipedia
    ok if you can't see the trend of MMA becoming popular, and strongman/caveman style training methods becoming popular, then i can't help you
    Originally Posted by DefendDadeCo View Post
    Everything you listed has proven to be effective? Can you give me one peer-reviewed study stating that bodyweight exercises Were more effective than those same movements using weight?
    It is strength training...which as you have been so kind to babble on about, makes you stronger. There for stop trying to be smart. it is not working
    Originally Posted by DefendDadeCo View Post
    Btw practicing technique doesn't get you strong. Yes you will have better neuromuscular coordination which in turn elicits a more effective punch, kick, clinch, etc... But guess what: strengthening my hip rotators, hip extensors, trunk rotators, plus practicing my technique elicits an even MORE effective punch, kick, and/or clinch.

    In conclusion, you're a phaggot. Have a nice day
    kicking, and punching with better technique will condition all the muscle utilized by the specific technique. in turn making you stronger. are you telling me working with your bodyweight will not make you stronger?

    and asserting i am gay is childish and stupid. i will not solicit a responce to it.
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    Originally Posted by ftwrestler View Post
    ok dip****, i am going to make this quick


    kicking, and punching with better technique will condition all the muscle utilized by the specific technique. in turn making you stronger. are you telling me working with your bodyweight will not make you stronger?
    To a certain point, yes bodyweight exercises will stop being effective for strength gains. That's why people add resistance in the form of weights on bars, or dumbbells, or tires, etc...
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    Originally Posted by DefendDadeCo View Post
    To a certain point, yes bodyweight exercises will stop being effective for strength gains. That's why people add resistance in the form of weights on bars, or dumbbells, or tires, etc...
    ok and what about that point needed to be agrued?
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    Originally Posted by ftwrestler View Post
    ok and what about that point needed to be agrued?
    You're argument is: that kicking and punching with better technique will make a muscle "stronger." That's not what happens when you kick and punch with better technique. Being better at a skill or more coordinated at performing it does not automatically make you stronger. You may seem some slight neural adaptations but muscles need to be overloaded in order to get stronger. Bodyweight only bring you so far. If you want an effective strength program, you need to train the musculature in your legs in addition to your upper body. In order to overload them properly, you need weight and for most of us, that means a bar on your back; not kicking a bag a 1000 times.
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    Originally Posted by DefendDadeCo View Post
    You're argument is: that kicking and punching with better technique will make a muscle "stronger." That's not what happens when you kick and punch with better technique. Being better at a skill or more coordinated at performing it does not automatically make you stronger. You may seem some slight neural adaptations but muscles need to be overloaded in order to get stronger. Bodyweight only bring you so far. If you want an effective strength program, you need to train the musculature in your legs in addition to your upper body. In order to overload them properly, you need weight and for most of us, that means a bar on your back; not kicking a bag a 1000 times.
    no one is arguing that. But yes kicking actually does make your muscles stronger. It strengthens the muscles you use. You can overload your muscles with kicking and punching believe me. He is just starting off. He needs to work with bodyweight and technique. I don't know if you have ever trained by the way you are talking. Pyramid kicks on a heavy bag down from 50 and teeping a 200 lb heavybag is definatley going to strengthen your legs and facilitate a stronger movement generating more force.

    that being said

    im pretty sure you are missing the point of this thread

    im done here

    i have better things to do today
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    The Alchemist badreligion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HardGainer82 View Post
    It's good enough for your legs but not your upper body? Come on...you just don't wanna train legs
    Lol hey I am a stark defender of leg training and I loved to train legs but after all the reading I have done while I have been torpid due to my rib I have seen over and over that you don't want ur legs big you want them powerful and explosive and the workouts I have seen in the class I am taking do just that so I figured weights would be overkill plus I would like to be able to get on and off the toilet without a cane lol .
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    Originally Posted by ftwrestler View Post

    my gym travels to thailand once a year. All they do is run and bodyweight exercises

    and they train 4 hrs a day

    hit the bag hard, do countless push ups, pull ups, body/jump squats, train diligently.
    Nakmuay in Thailand don't typically lift weights ( although a lot of camps do ) because they fight so much. Sometimes once a month or every two weeks.

    I totally agree with you about kicking & working the teep on a heavy bag
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    Watch a rookie do a basic low kick and watch an elite fighter do the same kick. What is the first thing you notice? The elite fighters kick travels waayyy faster. Why does his kick travel faster? Because he has more of the type of strength you use in muay thai.

    What are major factors in kicking or punching power? Technique...which in a basic description is effectively channeling all of your weight into the kick or punch. The other most important factor is...speed...some people are gifted with it and some are not. You can train to improve technique and you can also train to improve your speed, but your maximum speed will be limited by genetics.

    So the only weight training that will help you in muay thai would be if it would improve your speed. If you move on to mma then yes weight training has more of a benefit. Even then you would want a routine that adds the most possible strength with minimal gains in mass. After all adding mass will only move you up in weight class where everyone will be stronger so it would really defeat the purpose.
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    Originally Posted by ftwrestler View Post
    no one is arguing that. But yes kicking actually does make your muscles stronger. It strengthens the muscles you use. You can overload your muscles with kicking and punching believe me. He is just starting off. He needs to work with bodyweight and technique. I don't know if you have ever trained by the way you are talking. Pyramid kicks on a heavy bag down from 50 and teeping a 200 lb heavybag is definatley going to strengthen your legs and facilitate a stronger movement generating more force.

    that being said

    im pretty sure you are missing the point of this thread

    im done here

    i have better things to do today
    you don't know what you're talking about...you need to learn more about the sport you're so heavily involved in...jesus





























































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    Originally Posted by badreligion View Post
    Lol hey I am a stark defender of leg training and I loved to train legs but after all the reading I have done while I have been torpid due to my rib I have seen over and over that you don't want ur legs big you want them powerful and explosive and the workouts I have seen in the class I am taking do just that so I figured weights would be overkill plus I would like to be able to get on and off the toilet without a cane lol .
    You can train your legs without getting them big.
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    Originally Posted by badreligion View Post
    I was just wondering if anybody could give me sample weight lifting routines and tips to help me in Muay Thai . I am gonna lift twice a week mainly upper body because the stuff they have me do in class is enough for legs so I just am curious what kind of weight lifting routine I can use to improve conditioning as well as power .

    Any help is appreciated .
    if youare wanting to help your muay thai, then do alot of bag and pad work.
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