Guys who do the oly lifts for months/years and barely make any progress...

[Getter_done]

I am seeing way too many guys like this, doing way too many assistance exercises, never truly pushing themselves, concentrating on every little dam detail in the lift. barely making pr's and when they do its a couple kilos. Then you see some powerlifter/bodybuilder whos interested in oly lifting get into it and learns some decent form and is already putting up bigger numbers then the oly lifter connoisseur whos very happy about his 90 kg clean pull from the knees pr and his marvelous 80 kg jerk which btw now hes very proud because of his incredible leg extension on it. I love oly lifting and some of these guys make it look bad.

/rant

[T-mac]

1)Move to bulgaria
2)Join Olympic Gym
3)feel inadequate.
4)Move back
5)make this thread again and feel good about yourself.

[JiP]

This happens all over the board dude. Plenty of people doing workouts that just keep them at the same level never really addressing their main issue that is a lack of intensity/consistency with the core lifts.

Not hating on anyone here... just saying.

[matjusm]

I am seeing way too many guys like this, doing way too many assistance exercises, never truly pushing themselves, concentrating on every little dam detail in the lift. barely making pr's and when they do its a couple kilos. Then you see some powerlifter/bodybuilder whos interested in oly lifting get into it and learns some decent form and is already putting up bigger numbers then the oly lifter connoisseur whos very happy about his 90 kg clean pull from the knees pr and his marvelous 80 kg jerk which btw now hes very proud because of his incredible leg extension on it. I love oly lifting and some of these guys make it look bad.

/rant

Where do you see all these people doing Olympic lifts? You must work out some awesome gym where they actually have platforms and people who know what to do with them.

Anyway, I too for an embarrassingly long time made little progress on my lifts. For a very long time I just didn't know proper technique and didn't do too much about it. In addition to that my routine was not geared towards getting better at the Oly lifts so that didn't help either.
But then I finally went and saw a coach, got a lot of good advice and redid my routine (by putting the Olympic lifts first and by doing them more often) and since then I've seen constant progress.

[slowman41]

agreed, but theres many factors at hand.

for myself, I'm disappointed with my progress.

-however, I have no access to a (real) gym during the week, unless I want to pay $240 a month to listen to some 145lb crossfit douche lifting in chucks give me advice because he spent $1000 for a weekend cert, and now he's qualified to teach oly. (yes rant)

-I don't have enough free time to train consistently.

-My technique has sucked which prevented me from making PR's for a while. Lately I have been doing a breakdown of the lifts into parts and it has helped me immensely.

[MJAffliction]

It really isn't as huge of a deal as you make it out to be. Some of us are recreational lifters that can't focus on the sport or dedicate ourselves to it as much as we would like.

[Squinky]

No worries. Anyone can look strong by putting 10 kg plates on the bar.

[nova6868]

I have had a really hard time making gains the last few months, however I think it's unfair to say those who aren't making progress make the sport look bad.

- I work 40+ hours per week, and can't completely dedicate myself to lifting.

- I've had two injuries in the last 8 months.

- I train by myself in the garage, and admit it's sometimes hard to ramp up the intensity.

You're correct, I should keep trying new ways to push the intensity and demand PRs. It's something I'm always working on.

However, T-Mac makes the best point of the thread. People in Russia, Bulgaria, Turkey, China, etc. are looking at ALL of us and shaking their heads. Yet, I don't hear any of them saying "Americans make the sport look bad". They are very friendly for the most part.

[skuraishi]

I am seeing way too many guys like this, doing way too many assistance exercises, never truly pushing themselves, concentrating on every little dam detail in the lift. barely making pr's and when they do its a couple kilos. Then you see some powerlifter/bodybuilder whos interested in oly lifting get into it and learns some decent form and is already putting up bigger numbers then the oly lifter connoisseur whos very happy about his 90 kg clean pull from the knees pr and his marvelous 80 kg jerk which btw now hes very proud because of his incredible leg extension on it. I love oly lifting and some of these guys make it look bad.

/rant

what i don't understand is why they do that. yes, technique is important, it does help the lift. but there is so much more to lifting than just technique. supplimentary lifts are there to build you up so that when you put them all together, you'll be a strong and technical lifter breaking PR's. they go hand in hand. i think those people that you see are not true lifters and they do give lifting a bad name.

lifting is about pushing yourself, getting the most out of what you love. if you forget this, wander over to youtube and check out olympic videos. those guys and girls lifting, they spent some time on the details but they also pushed themselves to get better.

just ignore those ones at the gym because they truly do not love the sport, nor do they fully understand it. and an oly lifter connoisseur who cleans from knees is not an oly connoisseur. that is only someone doing a supplimentary lift to help build power and explosiveness when doing a real clean and jerk. but i doubt they would know that.

i think what you're also seeing is someone who is not an oly lifter but taking some parts of the sport and using it for another ie: football and rugby players. i see them a lot at the gym and i get frustrated when they power clean and muscle snatch but then i am reminded that they do not compete like i do but they are rather using this to get better at their own sport, their own competition.

just focus on your own lifting and the pr's that you'll be making.

[camerontraining]

People just need how to get decent back squats AND drill technique for the Olifts. If you can't squat 315 there is no way in hell you're going to clean it. There is no reason people shouldn't be constantly progressing in their squats while training the lifts. For some reason whether it is dietary or poor training methods a 2x-2.5x bw back squat seems like an amazing feat to some amateur lifters but is easily attainable within 2-3 years of training properly and only takes 2-3 training sessions/week.

(Not in the way that semi retarded elitefts article says)

[svespie]

1)move to bulgaria
2)join olympic gym
3)feel inadequate.
4)move back
5)make this thread again and feel good about yourself.

+1.

[svespie]

this happens all over the board dude. Plenty of people doing workouts that just keep them at the same level never really addressing their main issue that is a lack of intensity/consistency with the core lifts.

Not hating on anyone here... Just saying.

+1.

[skuraishi]

People just need how to get decent back squats AND drill technique for the Olifts. If you can't squat 315 there is no way in hell you're going to clean it. There is no reason people shouldn't be constantly progressing in their squats while training the lifts. For some reason whether it is dietary or poor training methods a 2x-2.5x bw back squat seems like an amazing feat to some amateur lifters but is easily attainable within 2-3 years of training properly and only takes 2-3 training sessions/week.

(Not in the way that semi retarded elitefts article says)

and deads. if you're not lifting that bar off the ground, you're not getting under it.

[camerontraining]

and deads. if you're not lifting that bar off the ground, you're not getting under it.

I'm not a huge fan of deadlifts for oly lift training just because it is an almost entirely different movement then the first pull of the clean and the back squat hits the musculature you need without throwing off your positioning. But ya general idea of focusing on strength, while working on technique.

[Iberian80]

I would question whether the people you saw lifting are really olympic lifters or people doing olympic lifts in the pursuit of some other goal.

If you are a soccer/basketball player putting on 20kg of mass is probably not in your best interest. Being able to use the 80kg you have as explosively as possible is. In soccer in particular there are a lot of players who weigh <80kg so a cnj of 100+ would require a lot of training and specialization in olympic lifts. The downside is that a soccer player needs to be fast and be able to play for 90 minutes in 45 minute blocks. If you have massive legs from squatting/lifting that puts a large tax on your body to support that muscle as you run for 45 minutes at a time.

FC Barcelona has some of the most talented players yet they are 5'7" and weigh max 150-160.

Mountain Bikers, runners, baseball, basketball, etc are sports that derive some level benefits from olympic lifting but after the initial gains find effort into other areas providing more benefit.

Most people who lift for the sake of olympic lifting make progress and if they aren't they know why, i.e. our friend who doesn't have the time.

[Iberian80]

I'm not a huge fan of deadlifts for oly lift training just because it is an almost entirely different movement then the first pull of the clean and the back squat hits the musculature you need without throwing off your positioning. But ya general idea of focusing on strength, while working on technique.

Same, it is just too slow of a lift. Unless you are in the SHW class you have to make every kg of muscle count. If I have a choice between fast lifts and slow lifts I want the fast lifts. I want every muscle to be geared to providing instant maximum power.

Even the SHW stop squatting once they can clear 300-320kg because more strength doesn't equal bigger lifts.

[skuraishi]

I'm not a huge fan of deadlifts for oly lift training just because it is an almost entirely different movement then the first pull of the clean and the back squat hits the musculature you need without throwing off your positioning. But ya general idea of focusing on strength, while working on technique.

for clean deads, my grip is slightly different than when i would normally clean. i do find that snatch deads do help with the first pull for a snatch. i think it's because my hips normally go up first and throwing me off, but with the help off snatch deads my hips and shoulders rise at the same time.
i'm just following the program my coach gave us. i hate a lot of the stuff on it, but i do them just so i can get better and stronger, lol

question: do you do front squats as well? there's only mention of back squats......

[Squinky]

Just forget the damn back squat. You can back squat till the cows come home, you are blue in the face and die of old age, you still might have lower back too weak to pull anything heavy, and the abs too weak to front squat or clean anything heavy. Back squat = garbage.

[Iberian80]

Just forget the damn back squat. You can back squat till the cows come home, you are blue in the face and die of old age, you still might have lower back too weak to pull anything heavy, and the abs too weak to front squat or clean anything heavy. Back squat = garbage.

In Squinky vs a lot of the world I would bet on the world.

Most programs still have some level of back squats. A lot will leave out the front squat because of all the front squatting you do in your actual lifts.

In general the back squat is not more than 15-20% of the total volume for the week.

Personally I still spend time on back squats because my cnj max is so close to my max squat and about equal to my max front squat. More specifc though I target my assistance excercise towards my hamstrings as that is what I feel is the weakest link in my lifts.

If you com from powerlifting or just have massive legs you might want to skip them and focus on speed and technique trying to prioritize what your weakest points are and fixing those. Rinse and repeat.

[crackyflipside]

Good coaching makes a huuuuuuuge difference. I was so used to being one of those extremely technical lifters watching every centimeter and angle of movement looking to fix problems like that, over a year or so my technique begins to improve. Then I start getting coaching from a guy that spent his whole life lifting and coaching international level lifters and all he says are three or four things and in a month my technique improves dramatically.

For the squatting argument my coach recently said the squats are for slow strength, you need to practice the lifts to develop the speed, you cannot do one without the other.

[laxshack]

lets settle this...... their is a reasonable explanation for this, 'THE SPORT IS JUST TOO DAMN HARD!!!!', this goes for even the cream of the crop, let alone just your average gym rat or weekend warrior. Squatting up to your max everyday? attempting max lifts in snatch or clean and jerk, its very hard and tiring. i dont know to many people who would put themselves through this much hell for a 1 kg increase, people naturally want to find an easy way out, they tell themselves 'if i skip the max squats and just do 70% for a bunch of reps, maybe keep it easy on my aching back ......'. you always hear people asking stupid questions like, 'what protein do you use?' or 'will creatine make me lift like you?'. the truth of the matter is none of this matters, their is no easy way out. doing lifts with only 40kg is not going to take you anywhere (unless your some kind of paraplegic), assuming your young and able and healthy, id say the majority are more than competent they just lack the 'work ethic' drive and willingness to work HARD! if you only lifted when you felt good you would go absolutely nowhere. that said after all this people don't readily admit or realize for that matter that they just aren't pushing themselves and blaming their results on 'lack of form', they spend more time fixing their form than they do lifting, the one most ridiculous thing iv heard is 'squat form/technique' as quoted by john broz - 'it doesnt matter how you squat, as long as you go down and come up its a squat'. i must admit squatting is hard, and i wouldn't blame anyone for not going heavy, its taxing not only to the body muscles and joints but also on the mind, you feel physically, mentally exhausted, unless you have good coaching (preferably someone who's done it or gone somewhere with it) a great facility and atmosphere, as you need someone to give you the proper instruction and most importantly the support, someone to get you into your mental game, the sport is a good 30 - 80% mental, dipping under 100 kg might seem a little scary, and fear of the weight might be all thats hindering you from getting under locking out and making the lift. all in all if you push yourself and just do the lift, you'll go allot further than getting up every 10 seconds or so to ask 'is my form good? does my butt wink? is my back rounding? are my knees caving in? etc.'

as my favorite slogan says NIKE - 'Just Do It!'

[camerontraining]

for clean deads, my grip is slightly different than when i would normally clean. i do find that snatch deads do help with the first pull for a snatch. i think it's because my hips normally go up first and throwing me off, but with the help off snatch deads my hips and shoulders rise at the same time.
i'm just following the program my coach gave us. i hate a lot of the stuff on it, but i do them just so i can get better and stronger, lol

question: do you do front squats as well? there's only mention of back squats......

personally I front squat less often then I would recommend since I don't train exclusively for the lifts.

but yes front squats are also important however if you back squat properly and have enough mobility to keep an upright torso it should be the staple of your training and will help your front squat tremendously.

Once you get into the elite level with great technical efficiency and an already tremendous back squat, front squatting usually begins to take priority.

[camerontraining]

Just forget the damn back squat. You can back squat till the cows come home, you are blue in the face and die of old age, you still might have lower back too weak to pull anything heavy, and the abs too weak to front squat or clean anything heavy. Back squat = garbage.

derp

[DFS200]

There's a bunch of skinny kids trying powerlifting and bodybuilding splits that aren't making gains either, if you're not willing to train more efficiently, you stall, just like 90% of the gym-going population.

[nova6868]

Poor excuses. Well definitely depends on the extent of the injures, but sounds like you're trying way too hard to justify not getting stronger.

Most recent was partial tear in the AC joint. But hey... Maybe you're right. I will take any criticism/opinion and use it constructively to push myself in training.

[JiP]

Most recent was partial tear in the AC joint. But hey... Maybe you're right. I will take any criticism/opinion and use it constructively to push myself in training.

Ah, I deleted my post, I thought it was dumb. Didn't realise it had been quoted.

[nova6868]

No worries, mate.

[LudiWithKnives]

Good coaching makes a huuuuuuuge difference. I was so used to being one of those extremely technical lifters watching every centimeter and angle of movement looking to fix problems like that, over a year or so my technique begins to improve. Then I start getting coaching from a guy that spent his whole life lifting and coaching international level lifters and all he says are three or four things and in a month my technique improves dramatically.

For the squatting argument my coach recently said the squats are for slow strength, you need to practice the lifts to develop the speed, you cannot do one without the other.

do tell these awesome 3-4 things that helped you improve dramatically !

[someonefat]

Good coaching makes a huuuuuuuge difference. I was so used to being one of those extremely technical lifters watching every centimeter and angle of movement looking to fix problems like that, over a year or so my technique begins to improve. Then I start getting coaching from a guy that spent his whole life lifting and coaching international level lifters and all he says are three or four things and in a month my technique improves dramatically.

For the squatting argument my coach recently said the squats are for slow strength, you need to practice the lifts to develop the speed, you cannot do one without the other.

what were the 4 things he said about your technique to make it work?

[viperjax]

Good coaching makes a huuuuuuuge difference. I was so used to being one of those extremely technical lifters watching every centimeter and angle of movement looking to fix problems like that, over a year or so my technique begins to improve. Then I start getting coaching from a guy that spent his whole life lifting and coaching international level lifters and all he says are three or four things and in a month my technique improves dramatically.

For the squatting argument my coach recently said the squats are for slow strength, you need to practice the lifts to develop the speed, you cannot do one without the other.

quit jerkin us around and tell us already!!