A Simple Beginner's Routine part II

[steyrsp]

4 working sets of overhead press? where?
only 4 sets of working squats, 2 warm ups
and yes 4 sets of bench.

I have been trying to figure out how to change up my routine, but everyone said SM alone is useless, and I feel that DB alone isn't enough.

Leg Press is a close substitute for squat so I am treating that as squats, you are doing 6 working sets of basically the same exercise; I counted wrong on overhead. And like I just said a few posts back if you are going to overwork anything it shouldn't be bench if you value aesthetics or real world functionality.

So sounds like what your saying is that your gym doesn't have barbells? If thats the case then just do everything with dumbbells, I am not a fan of Smith, watch some youtube videos on dumbbell squats and stuff and see if your doing anything wrong, because there is no reason why it shouldn't give you a good workout. And you should be doing SLDL with dumbbells too along with lowering your squat and bench sets.

[Absolute88]

Leg Press is a close substitute for squat so I am treating that as squats, you are doing 6 working sets of basically the same exercise; I counted wrong on overhead. And like I just said a few posts back if you are going to overwork anything it shouldn't be bench if you value aesthetics or real world functionality.

So sounds like what your saying is that your gym doesn't have barbells? If thats the case then just do everything with dumbbells, I am not a fan of Smith, watch some youtube videos on dumbbell squats and stuff and see if your doing anything wrong, because there is no reason why it shouldn't give you a good workout. And you should be doing SLDL with dumbbells too along with lowering your squat and bench sets.

Thank you very much for explaining it all to me. My chest has not felt taxed at all, but my legs have been pretty sore going up and down my stairs at work. I will definitely just get rid of all of the Smith exercises and bring back SLDLs with DBs. I just got out of work, but when I wake up I will check out a bunch of youtube videos to find out the proper form for everything.

+Rep'd you, I know they are pitiful :P.

New routine:

Reg AP-----------------------My Version

Squats ----------------------DB Squats
Bench Presses ---------------DB Press
Bent-Over Rows -------------Bent-Over Rows
Overhead Barbell Presses ----Overhead Barbell Presses
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts -------DB SLDL
Barbell Curls-----------------Barbell Curls
Calf Raises------------------Calf Raises on SM.

[syncmaster913n]

My chest has not felt taxed at all, but my legs have been pretty sore going up and down my stairs at work.

Please remember that soreness is not a good indicator of whether you worked a certain muscle well or not. If you follow this routine exactly as described (substituting BB for DB is OK) you are guaranteed to be taxing your muscles as required. Don't pay attention to whether you feel sore the other day or not - as long as your form was good for each exercise. And make sure you are starting out with your 10 rep max weight for each exercise.

[GMLFTMBCIFASLHO]

Just when things were going so well, my left knee starts to feel sort of sharp pain anytime I bend down for a squat. I am pretty sure I'm using good form. But if this pain doesn't go away, I sadly won't be able to squat on Monday. And I was really looking forward to it, because its Cycle 1, week 3 (which means its my heavy day, and 10 rep max day)

I'm going to just rest all day today. Tomorrow is my rest day. And I'm hoping that my left knee will feel better. The strange thing is that the pain happened all of a sudden. And I don't remember at what point I specifically 'damaged' it.

I just remember after taking a nap, I got up and started feeling the pain (from getting out of my bed). It only hurts when I squat down (if i go far enough), and then again when I come back up. The pain is only when I'm just about parallel. When I'm not parallel I don't feel the pain as much.

And yes, my knees are not in front of my toes really, and I make sure that when bent, they are aligned with my feet (same direction, slightly outward).

This really does suck. I'm just going to have to wait. Right now, its only going to affect my squats. But Squatting has recently become my favorite exercise (which is why I really like this program).

Thinking I should just put some ICE on it later today, and tomorrow. Hopefully it heels up? Do you think I should take an anti inflammatory, like ibuprofen to help with the inflammation?

[BrandNew3]

Hi guys,

Hoping you can help me out with this one. I've been doing this routine for about 8 months and seeing good results. I'm doing the routine as suggested and drinking daily weigh-gainer protein shakes, so I've been getting bigger as well.

However, I'm starting to get a bit of a belly as I gain more and more weight and I'm concerned its only going to get worse. I've been doing crunches after every workout but its not having much of an effect. Are there any recommended ab exercises you recommend I add into this workout? Should I cut out the milkshakes or switch to a non-weigh gainer shake? (I'd still like to get bigger, but to keep fairly lean)

Please let me know if you ran into this issue or have any possible solutions, thanks!

[64509chvl]

Please remember that soreness is not a good indicator of whether you worked a certain muscle well or not. If you follow this routine exactly as described (substituting BB for DB is OK) you are guaranteed to be taxing your muscles as required. Don't pay attention to whether you feel sore the other day or not - as long as your form was good for each exercise. And make sure you are starting out with your 10 rep max weight for each exercise.

^ All of this! Everything will work out if u don't change the program at all!

[syncmaster913n]

Hi guys,

Hoping you can help me out with this one. I've been doing this routine for about 8 months and seeing good results. I'm doing the routine as suggested and drinking daily weigh-gainer protein shakes, so I've been getting bigger as well.

However, I'm starting to get a bit of a belly as I gain more and more weight and I'm concerned its only going to get worse. I've been doing crunches after every workout but its not having much of an effect. Are there any recommended ab exercises you recommend I add into this workout? Should I cut out the milkshakes or switch to a non-weigh gainer shake? (I'd still like to get bigger, but to keep fairly lean)

Please let me know if you ran into this issue or have any possible solutions, thanks!

You're probably gaining belly fat because you are taking in too many calories - crunches won't help you with that. Simply reduce your daily caloric intake by some and see if things start getting better. Make sure to measure your waist / un-flexed biceps regularly to be able to tell what's really going on. Good luck!

[Stev05]

Hi guys,

Hoping you can help me out with this one. I've been doing this routine for about 8 months and seeing good results. I'm doing the routine as suggested and drinking daily weigh-gainer protein shakes, so I've been getting bigger as well.

However, I'm starting to get a bit of a belly as I gain more and more weight and I'm concerned its only going to get worse. I've been doing crunches after every workout but its not having much of an effect. Are there any recommended ab exercises you recommend I add into this workout? Should I cut out the milkshakes or switch to a non-weigh gainer shake? (I'd still like to get bigger, but to keep fairly lean)

Please let me know if you ran into this issue or have any possible solutions, thanks!

Like he said, ab work is good to strengthen the core muscles, but you can't spot reduce fat. I would suggest you take a look at the nutrition stickies and calculate your daily maintenance calories and then eat like 300-500 over that. You want to be aiming for a pound a week to continue making lean gains. It's definitely a hassle to weigh food and track calories, but it's the most effective way to be sure you're getting the ideal amount.

[Stev05]

Just when things were going so well, my left knee starts to feel sort of sharp pain anytime I bend down for a squat. I am pretty sure I'm using good form. But if this pain doesn't go away, I sadly won't be able to squat on Monday. And I was really looking forward to it, because its Cycle 1, week 3 (which means its my heavy day, and 10 rep max day)

I'm going to just rest all day today. Tomorrow is my rest day. And I'm hoping that my left knee will feel better. The strange thing is that the pain happened all of a sudden. And I don't remember at what point I specifically 'damaged' it.

I just remember after taking a nap, I got up and started feeling the pain (from getting out of my bed). It only hurts when I squat down (if i go far enough), and then again when I come back up. The pain is only when I'm just about parallel. When I'm not parallel I don't feel the pain as much.

And yes, my knees are not in front of my toes really, and I make sure that when bent, they are aligned with my feet (same direction, slightly outward).

This really does suck. I'm just going to have to wait. Right now, its only going to affect my squats. But Squatting has recently become my favorite exercise (which is why I really like this program).

Thinking I should just put some ICE on it later today, and tomorrow. Hopefully it heels up? Do you think I should take an anti inflammatory, like ibuprofen to help with the inflammation?

Sorry to hear about your knee man, I've had that happen before with lifting and running. It's probably a minor inflammatory response because of the new stress on your joints and connective tissue. Take a couple NSAID pain relievers (aleve, ibuprofen or aspirin) and ice it at night. Hopefully if you do that a few nights it'll fix itself. I'd say if possible, skip squats for a medium and light day to give yourself a little recovery time.

Best of luck!

[robosphere]

So, Cycle 3 day 1. Not as bad as I expected - but it's only 8 reps. So far, I can visualize myself finishing this cycle. Psyched!

[lrd3]

i cant hep but notice my my legs are "firm" like all the time not just after my lifts. its to the point were i just keep cheeking out of the blue to be sure. lol.... its amazing. i never paid that much attention to my legs in the past so this is awesome! it really fires me up.
i wish i could see or feel these kinda gains in my chest and arms this soone but i think thats just my wishful vanity pocking his stubborn head out.
any way im fired up to be seeing results so short in. ( i ran a half cycle earlier and am back on week 2 now) so figuring 5 weeks in (kinda) lol

[cogliati]

Mannnn, I pulled a muscle in my lower back this week during my medium session. I was really looking forward to next week as its my 5th week of cycle one. Looks like I'm going to have to chill out and let the muscle heal. I did some acupuncture this morning and it really seemed to help the pain.

If I end up taking a couple weeks off lifting, do you guys think I should just restart from week one?

I pulled the muscle whilst doing sldl's. Next time I gotta focus on not going so far down as I think I overextended the muscle.

[lrd3]

Mannnn, I pulled a muscle in my lower back this week during my medium session. I was really looking forward to next week as its my 5th week of cycle one. Looks like I'm going to have to chill out and let the muscle heal. I did some acupuncture this morning and it really seemed to help the pain.

If I end up taking a couple weeks off lifting, do you guys think I should just restart from week one?

I pulled the muscle whilst doing sldl's. Next time I gotta focus on not going so far down as I think I overextended the muscle.

i couldn't answer how to get back on track after taking the nesasary healing time off. but i did want to ask if you stretch out before a work out.
i probably stretch for 15 minutes really working my self limber before my warm ups. when i do my dead lifts it starts with me on a wood box so when i bring the bar down it actualy touches my toes. and the weights still clear the floor. (not very big weights mind you 25s)
but that stretch is what allows me to feel like im getting a 100% controlled lift throughout the ROM on all lifts.

[cogliati]

i couldn't answer how to get back on track after taking the nesasary healing time off. but i did want to ask if you stretch out before a work out.
i probably stretch for 15 minutes really working my self limber before my warm ups. when i do my dead lifts it starts with me on a wood box so when i bring the bar down it actualy touches my toes. and the weights still clear the floor. (not very big weights mind you 25s)
but that stretch is what allows me to feel like im getting a 100% controlled lift throughout the ROM on all lifts.

I always do 5-10 minutes on the bike for my warmup. Then I'll do some dynamic stretches. One would think that by the time you so the sldl's, the body would be warmed up sufficiency from squats and bor's.

[lrd3]

I always do 5-10 minutes on the bike for my warmup. Then I'll do some dynamic stretches. One would think that by the time you so the sldl's, the body would be warmed up sufficiency from squats and bor's.

well either way i hope you heel fast and have minimal down time. im sure you were fired up for this week.
heel up bro. keep up posted.

[bikecommuter]

Hi guys,

Hoping you can help me out with this one. I've been doing this routine for about 8 months and seeing good results. I'm doing the routine as suggested and drinking daily weigh-gainer protein shakes, so I've been getting bigger as well.

However, I'm starting to get a bit of a belly as I gain more and more weight and I'm concerned its only going to get worse. I've been doing crunches after every workout but its not having much of an effect. Are there any recommended ab exercises you recommend I add into this workout? Should I cut out the milkshakes or switch to a non-weigh gainer shake? (I'd still like to get bigger, but to keep fairly lean)

Please let me know if you ran into this issue or have any possible solutions, thanks!

Double check the label on the supplement you're using. There is a big difference in carbs and total calories between a typical whey protein powder vs. a mass/weight-gainer product. Unless you are trying to bulk-up for a sport, I wouldn't use the weight-gainer variety. I would just stick with a basic whey protein isolate, and only after your work-out. Then spend the rest of the day eating various meats and veggies.

[TheBirchman]

Anybody else got any advice for doing this while cutting? I'm gonna start Cycle 4 Monday and introduce off-day cardio 3-4 times a week hoping to get some more visible muscle definition. I've gained about 14-15 lbs over the first 15 weeks. Would love to be able to make it through Cycle 4 without stalling on a bunch of stuff, especially since I'm really close to finally being able to bench bodyweight, which is a goal I'd really like to crack.

[cogliati]

well either way i hope you heel fast and have minimal down time. im sure you were fired up for this week.
heel up bro. keep up posted.

Thanks brother. Can't wait to get back on track. Love this program!

[steyrsp]

Just when things were going so well, my left knee starts to feel sort of sharp pain anytime I bend down for a squat. I am pretty sure I'm using good form. But if this pain doesn't go away, I sadly won't be able to squat on Monday. And I was really looking forward to it, because its Cycle 1, week 3 (which means its my heavy day, and 10 rep max day)

My personal experience with squats was that I had slight pain around the knee, more like a feeling that the knee wasn't stabilized like you could easily twist it or something, that type of feeling, I had that for the first few weeks and I thought it was my knees, but then it went away all of the sudden so my theory is that it was all of the stabilizer muscles that were never used because I always did hack squat machine and such.

Worst case scenario (after first seeing a physical therapist), I would consider using the hack squat machine as you *may* find it easier on the knees with a high foot position, and you have to continue doing SLDL to supplement the hack squats deficiencies which are mainly less hamstring activity than barbell squats, its more quad dominant.

[steyrsp]

However, I'm starting to get a bit of a belly as I gain more and more weight and I'm concerned its only going to get worse. I've been doing crunches after every workout but its not having much of an effect. Are there any recommended ab exercises you recommend I add into this workout? Should I cut out the milkshakes or switch to a non-weigh gainer shake? (I'd still like to get bigger, but to keep fairly lean)

There is not a cookie cutter answer here; a lot of it depends on your particular body type, your just going to have to experiment and see if you can gain muscle without ridiculous amounts of calories. Me personally I need ridiculous amounts of calories and protein to gain muscle, so I get fat - so then eventually I have to do cardio a few times a week to lose it. I also need upwards of 1.5-2 grams of protein, I don't care what the studies say I cannot have good muscle gains on 1 gram of protein.

[steyrsp]

Anybody else got any advice for doing this while cutting? I'm gonna start Cycle 4 Monday and introduce off-day cardio 3-4 times a week hoping to get some more visible muscle definition. I've gained about 14-15 lbs over the first 15 weeks. Would love to be able to make it through Cycle 4 without stalling on a bunch of stuff, especially since I'm really close to finally being able to bench bodyweight, which is a goal I'd really like to crack.

The trouble I have is that any sort of diet, say 1600 calories, its almost impossible to get 1 gram protein per pound with such few calories, so your guaranteed to lose muscle/strength. I think the best thing you can do is keep your protein at 1 gram per pound, let the calories fall where they may for that amount of protein, and then just do a ton of cardio. Of course if you want to sacrifice muscle you can take in less protein/calories and lose weight quicker and not even have to do cardio...

[TheBirchman]

The trouble I have is that any sort of diet, say 1600 calories, its almost impossible to get 1 gram protein per pound with such few calories, so your guaranteed to lose muscle/strength. I think the best thing you can do is keep your protein at 1 gram per pound, let the calories fall where they may for that amount of protein, and then just do a ton of cardio. Of course if you want to sacrifice muscle you can take in less protein/calories and lose weight quicker and not even have to do cardio...

I don't eat meat so I'm always on the hunt for creative protein sources. You should check out Skyr for an ultra high protein/calorie ratio. It's a staple of my diet. I use it both as a snack and as a base for smoothies including fruit and protein powder.

A single serving of plain skyr is:

80 calories
15 g protein
5 g carbs
0 g fat

It's the supercharged Icelandic counterpart to Greek Yoghurt. It's fat free by the production process, but they also make a version with fat added that is:

110 calories
14 g protein
6 g carbs
3 g fat

Throw a couple scoops of this stuff in a blender for breakfast and you'll get to 50 g protein in a hurry.

[steyrsp]

I don't eat meat so I'm always on the hunt for creative protein sources. You should check out Skyr for an ultra high protein/calorie ratio. It's a staple of my diet. I use it both as a snack and as a base for smoothies including fruit and protein powder.

Your Skyr is only 15g protein for 80 calories though, thats not super great, one scoop of my protein powder is 120 calories for 24g protein. For example my Optimum Nutrition Whey protein shake with 1.5 cups 2% fat milk is 72g protein with 435 calories; that same protein from Skyr alone would be 384 calories, so it sounds okay but not much different. And actually a more apples to apples comparison with the fat-added version of Skyr would put the Skyr at 565 calories vs 435 for my whey shake...

Also, in order for you to reach 175g protein per day on Skyr you would take in 933 calories, a diet would probably want you around 1600 calories, that only leaves you 600 calories per day for any sort of nutritional value... I don't think thats enough calories to intake proper nutrition. So back to the catch 22 I was talking about where you are forced into doing cardio for the caloric deficit OR sacrifice muscle with a lower protein intake.

Btw, I have greek yogurt in my fridge that I just looked at and it has 120 calories for 22g protein; low-fat Skyr would be 117 calories for 22g protein, so not sure why its considered better than Greek yogurt?

[64509chvl]

Take the time to set up your diet with a decent macro combo with atleast 1g of protien per pound & your good! Or go spend some time in the nutritional section they'll get u set up.

[69cam]

The trouble I have is that any sort of diet, say 1600 calories, its almost impossible to get 1 gram protein per pound with such few calories, so your guaranteed to lose muscle/strength. I think the best thing you can do is keep your protein at 1 gram per pound, let the calories fall where they may for that amount of protein, and then just do a ton of cardio. Of course if you want to sacrifice muscle you can take in less protein/calories and lose weight quicker and not even have to do cardio...

Remember it's 1 gram per pound of LBM. I get it in at around 120g of protien at 1300-1400kcals.

[64509chvl]

Remember it's 1 gram per pound of LBM. I get it in at around 120g of protien at 1300-1400kcals.

Yes good point...I forget & just assume everyone knows this!

[steyrsp]

Remember it's 1 gram per pound of LBM. I get it in at around 120g of protien at 1300-1400kcals.

Most protein and macronutrient recommendations these days are made based on pounds of total bodyweight, not pounds of lean body weight. Now as far as how much protein to intake its simply going to vary based on which scientist or bodybuilders recommendations you want to listen to. My current idea is that 1g per pound of total bodyweight would be sufficient for dieting; however, I have read guys recommending 1.5-2 for dieting. As far as gaining muscle I personally need 1.5-2g total bodyweight to gain.

For example this guy http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kelly3.htm - is recommending 1.25 grams of total body weight - not LBM, while cutting. Its just a matter of who you want to listen to, there are not absolute truths here.

[Stev05]

Since we're sharing nutritional info, i'll share mine!

I've been trying to hit 2g of protein and carbs per pound of total body weight and then I shoot for about 100g of fat. I eat a lot of peanut butter, nuts and avocados, but I still have trouble breaking 100 every day. Does 250 prot/carbs 100g fat and 3,000 calories seem appropriate for a 142 lber bulking?

[steyrsp]

Since we're sharing nutritional info, i'll share mine!

I've been trying to hit 2g of protein and carbs per pound of total body weight and then I shoot for about 100g of fat. I eat a lot of peanut butter, nuts and avocados, but I still have trouble breaking 100 every day. Does 250 prot/carbs 100g fat and 3,000 calories seem appropriate for a 142 lber bulking?

If I weighed 142, I would want like 4000 a day for an aggressive bulking. I like Rippetoe's idea of Gomad, 1 gallon milk a day - thats 1100 calories a day right there with 2% milk. I also like GNC Mass XXX, mixed with milk, yogurt, banana in blender your talking over 1000 calories per shake and 70+ grams protein roughly.

[64509chvl]

As already mentioned, everyone is different...each individual needs to figure out what thier body needs for the desired goal! If one wants to bulk...adjust the cals till u gain 1-1.5 pounds a week & target a macro range to stay consistent. Do the opposite to cut. Slight adjustments will be needed as u gain/drop weight to stay with the 1-1.5 pound a week range.