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  1. #7381
    Registered User mpizzle421's Avatar
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    My stats:

    34 years old (as of this coming Saturday)
    5'9"
    239LBS
    37" Waist
    ~34% bodyfat

    The way I'm eating:

    ~1600 net calories (I use an app called myfitnesspal. On a day that I do nothing but sit on my ass (desk job) I eat 1600 calories. If I exercise -- walk/elliptical/strength training -- I add the calories to my net and eat that many. For example 1600 calories + 500 calories burned on the elliptical = I eat 2100 calories for the day.)

    ~150g protein (to roughly match my estimated lbm)
    Some combination of fats and carbs that hasn't been especially consistent. I avoid sugars as much as possible, and typically eat better carbs -- brown rice/whole grains/sweet potatoes.

    I've been working out pretty regularly using a pretty simple upper/lower split 4x a week. At my fitness level it was just easier to split things up this way because I was pretty low on endurance. I've had some success doing what I've been doing -- gotten stronger/seeing some muscle & strength growth, and I've had some major health success overall through dieting and exercise (been at it for 2 months now) -- lost 2 pants sizes, 1 shirt size, as well as reducing my blood pressure (I was borderline for meds), and losing 21LBS.

    That being said there's plenty I've been doing wrong in the gym -- I had no real plan for progression and I wasn't doing some key exercises mentioned here -- squats/deadlifts -- because frankly, they're intimidating to me. I'm going to switch up what I've been doing and some things about this plan really sold me on it. Some things mentioned early in the first thread about muscle imbalance (caused by poorly planned routines with too much focus on isolation) and potential for future injury really resonated with me.

    Because my health is the priority right now (as said I was struggling with blood pressure and a few other health concerns at my starting weight of 260) I will need to remain on a calorie deficit, and I will need to continue doing some cardio and walking on off days. Ok, background set -- a few questions.

    1. Is this a good program to follow even when attempting to lose weight and on a deficit? Are any modifications required (because in general I have to assume that I just wont be as strong when not eating at my maintenance)?

    2. Any suggestions on my diet/caloric intake/protein intake? I have a fairly slow metabolism in general due to several down/up yo-yo dieting situations in my life -- that may be worth keeping in mind.

    3. I apologize because I know this has already been answered, but I wanted to make sure for the sake of clarity. If you aren't able to hit your reps on ALL exercises, do you reset on ALL exercises, or just the ones you couldn't make the progress on?

    Thank you in advance, and a big vote of thanks for continuing to help out the noobs multiple years after initially creating this thread. Impressive.

  2. #7382
    Registered User RedBullRiot's Avatar
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    Ive been super setting the bicep curls with triceps pushdowns for 12 reps. Is this ok? I like working my arms to the limit. thanks in advance

  3. #7383
    Registered User 64509chvl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RedBullRiot View Post
    Ive been super setting the bicep curls with triceps pushdowns for 12 reps. Is this ok? I like working my arms to the limit. thanks in advance
    Triceps get hit plenty & so do biceps for that matter...you'll see later on! This routine is only meant to be ran one way...without changing it!

  4. #7384
    Do I Even Lift? billb7581's Avatar
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    Just when you think you have this thing figured out, some crazy **** happens.... I thought for sure I was going to crash and burn on OH press and Bench, got reps across no problem (cycle 3 week 5 heavy day).... I think the key is to work on your form and bar speed on the medium and light days, and not do that super slow bull****.... worked for me anyhow.
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  5. #7385
    Do I Even Lift? billb7581's Avatar
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    If you want to do more arm work, after doing this routine... youarenotdoingitright..... I barely feel like doing the 2 sets of curls in the routine. My arms are wiped out after SLDL
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  6. #7386
    Registered User lazzara's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JaxLifter View Post
    Yeah, I'm using it on my cut. Just had my C2W5D1 this morning and failed only the OH presses, second set. Hit 12 on the first, then 10. Oh well! Now, most will say "You simply shouldn't have done 4 extra sets of bench on lite day" and they're all probably right. If you're running on a reasonable caloric deficit, you will still see gains (albiet noobie) with this program, assuming your macro nutrient profile is in check. I've seen a noticable increase in muscle size since I started. Looking forward to Cycle 3 on Monday! Another heavy day this week as I can only hit the plates twice this week. If I hit all 12 on that OHP, I'm moooovin on uuppp!!! To the Beast side!!!

    Also, I'm here today to post a committment to everyone on this board. I'm getting married in September. So naturally, I have mapped out my weight lifting program until then (haha). I can complete cycles 3-6 before the wedding. I will continue to do this program until then. At that point, it's off to Intermediate 1! And so....it is written. And so....it shall be!
    Yeah, it was a rookie mistake, really. I realized I've been doing my bb bench wrong this whole time (or so i thought), so I tried to make sure that I could do the needed reps with proper form. I got to carried away, I suppose. Because I really did try to make sure the form was close to perfect. I guess it was a bad idea.

    Managed to do to the first 10 reps on BB bench, but then I was out of gas by the 6th reps on second sets. Did the first set on OHP, but was out of fuel by the second set. I guess I'm just gonna make sure I have enough recovery before next week.

    And good luck with your cut!

  7. #7387
    Registered User Mr98hotdog's Avatar
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    Hey everyone I wanted to know if its ok to use lifting straps to carry the weight on SLDL. Im ok with carrying the other exercises but by the time I get to SLDL I can not carry the weight and still keep proper form. My forearm seems to give out by that exercise. Any input on this is appreiciated thanks.

  8. #7388
    Registered User Ampoliros's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mr98hotdog View Post
    Hey everyone I wanted to know if its ok to use lifting straps to carry the weight on SLDL. Im ok with carrying the other exercises but by the time I get to SLDL I can not carry the weight and still keep proper form. My forearm seems to give out by that exercise. Any input on this is appreiciated thanks.
    Maybe somebody can chime in with more experience, but I think using the straps should be fine until your forearm strength has built up.

    I don't think you should be avoiding a big compound exercise because your forearms aren't up to scratch. As long as you don't rely on the straps forever, and continue to build up forearm/grip strength in the interim, I don't see why anyone should have an issue.

    I know there are some purists who would say no but, whatever.

  9. #7389
    Registered User JSA6916's Avatar
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    Allpro, I just finished my heavy day for cycle 5. Loved the program, really started to see gains in strength and size. One question I'm curious as for setting my weights for next week.

    I did my squats at 65 lbs x 12 with ease, I think I may have started too low on my weight when I started. I know 10% of 65 is 6.5 but would it be alright if I just bumped it up to 10 lbs weight added? Also on my bench was 70 lbs and I did that with easy to moderate difficulty, can I add the 10 lbs next week instead of the 7? Also did the straight leg deadlift with ease at 80 lbs, can I bump that up to 15 possibly or should I stick with adding 10lbs? Everything else I feel comfortable going up the 10% minus the bent over rows and curls. The BO Rows were quite difficult to get the 12th rep, should I stick with the same weight or maybe just add 5%? I stalled at 10 reps on the curls so I'll be doing that over.

  10. #7390
    Registered User Mr98hotdog's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ampoliros View Post
    Maybe somebody can chime in with more experience, but I think using the straps should be fine until your forearm strength has built up.

    I don't think you should be avoiding a big compound exercise because your forearms aren't up to scratch. As long as you don't rely on the straps forever, and continue to build up forearm/grip strength in the interim, I don't see why anyone should have an issue.


    I know there are some purists who would say no but, whatever.
    Thank you for your quick reply. I also beleive that using straps is fine as long as you dont depend on them. I only use them on heavy day on the SLDL and for nothing else. The reason I ask is because next week Ill be increasing the weight by 10% and I think I might have to use them for my medium day SLDL as well. I hope it dosent hurt my progress in the long run.

  11. #7391
    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JSA6916 View Post
    Allpro, I just finished my heavy day for cycle 5. Loved the program, really started to see gains in strength and size. One question I'm curious as for setting my weights for next week.

    I did my squats at 65 lbs x 12 with ease, I think I may have started too low on my weight when I started. I know 10% of 65 is 6.5 but would it be alright if I just bumped it up to 10 lbs weight added? Also on my bench was 70 lbs and I did that with easy to moderate difficulty, can I add the 10 lbs next week instead of the 7? Also did the straight leg deadlift with ease at 80 lbs, can I bump that up to 15 possibly or should I stick with adding 10lbs? Everything else I feel comfortable going up the 10% minus the bent over rows and curls. The BO Rows were quite difficult to get the 12th rep, should I stick with the same weight or maybe just add 5%? I stalled at 10 reps on the curls so I'll be doing that over.
    Did you test your lifts before starting? If not then take a week off and test them. Otherwise stick to the program. If you had to break form to complete the reps for rows then you failed and you have to repeat the weight.
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    Powerbuilder all pro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ampoliros View Post
    Maybe somebody can chime in with more experience, but I think using the straps should be fine until your forearm strength has built up.

    I don't think you should be avoiding a big compound exercise because your forearms aren't up to scratch. As long as you don't rely on the straps forever, and continue to build up forearm/grip strength in the interim, I don't see why anyone should have an issue.

    I know there are some purists who would say no but, whatever.
    Right now straps are fine. After a cycle or 2 lose them.
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    Powerlifter, n. A weight lifter too fat to be a bodybuilder.
    HIT Jedi, n. The fitness equivalent to Al Qaeda, except
    rather than fly planes into buildings, devotees fly
    steaming piles of dogmatic horse**** into your ears
    and down your throat.

    Every thing works..........for about 6 weeks.
    Hard gainer = under eater
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  13. #7393
    Registered User Mr98hotdog's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    Right now straps are fine. After a cycle or 2 lose them.
    Im on my 3rd cycle and will be moving on to the 4th cycle next week. My weight on SLDL as off this moment is 140 do u suggest I include maybe some forearm exercises or something? Ive tried without them and I cant get proper form, but if I decrease the weight I dont get a good "burn" on my hams. What do u recommend ALL PRO.

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    Originally Posted by Mr98hotdog View Post
    Im on my 3rd cycle and will be moving on to the 4th cycle next week. My weight on SLDL as off this moment is 140 do u suggest I include maybe some forearm exercises or something? Ive tried without them and I cant get proper form, but if I decrease the weight I dont get a good "burn" on my hams. What do u recommend ALL PRO.
    Yup. If you're really struggling then just repeat the weight for the SLDLs and include reverse wrist curls. Add them in as the last exercise. Hopefully that will improve your grip fast enough to avoid using straps.
    Bodybuilder, n. A weight lifter too weak to be a powerlifter.
    Powerlifter, n. A weight lifter too fat to be a bodybuilder.
    HIT Jedi, n. The fitness equivalent to Al Qaeda, except
    rather than fly planes into buildings, devotees fly
    steaming piles of dogmatic horse**** into your ears
    and down your throat.

    Every thing works..........for about 6 weeks.
    Hard gainer = under eater
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  15. #7395
    Registered User JSA6916's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    Did you test your lifts before starting? If not then take a week off and test them. Otherwise stick to the program. If you had to break form to complete the reps for rows then you failed and you have to repeat the weight.
    I didn't test my lifts, where do I see about doing that? Do I just test my lifts on Monday and not workout all next week?

    I probably did my weights the wrong way to find out which to use, but I did your program for a week before my 1st cycle and upped my weight each day so I wouldn't be too sore the following days (I do lifting at my job so being too sore to not being able to move wasn't an option) but for the last day I did 8 reps with 5-10 lbs more then the previous day then if I completed it fairly easy I added 5 lbs or if I did it with moderate difficulty I kept the same weight, if I couldn't do 8 I went down 5 lbs. I hadn't lifted in 4+ years so my weights weren't all that high to begin with.

  16. #7396
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    Originally Posted by all pro View Post
    Yup. If you're really struggling then just repeat the weight for the SLDLs and include reverse wrist curls. Add them in as the last exercise. Hopefully that will improve your grip fast enough to avoid using straps.
    Ok will add these to my workouts. Should it follow the same concept as heavy, medium, light, 8-12 reps, 2 sets?

  17. #7397
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    Originally Posted by billb7581 View Post
    Just when you think you have this thing figured out, some crazy **** happens.... I thought for sure I was going to crash and burn on OH press and Bench, got reps across no problem (cycle 3 week 5 heavy day).... I think the key is to work on your form and bar speed on the medium and light days, and not do that super slow bull****.... worked for me anyhow.
    Lol! I did the same thing on my 3rd cycle...week 3 it was all I had to get the tenth rep on 2nd set! I thought no f'n way am I hittin week 4! Well, week 4 was easier & week five was a breeze, lol! Endurance does some crazy stuff! Keep it goin!

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    Is 2 sets really enough? I just finished my first official day 1 cycle 1 and i dont feel too tired after.. Am i doing something wrong?

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    All Pro, I am now on the 4th week doing the weights for 11 reps each, but I just realized that my military press and curls have become tremendously hard. I had to lower the weight today because I was killing myself on the 70 lbs military press and 60 lbs curls. What do I do? Also, there were no available bench press machines at the gym today so I used decline as a substitute. I was able to push the weight I normally do on bench press so is that a good thing?

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    Originally Posted by jbird41 View Post
    Is 2 sets really enough? I just finished my first official day 1 cycle 1 and i dont feel too tired after.. Am i doing something wrong?
    Bro...are u reading the posts, lol! Myself & a few others that are close to the "intermediate" level & gettin up there in cycles are really startin to struggle to make it through some heavy days! I think it was last Monday...halfway through the 2nd set of biceps I said fu** it! Too damn exhausted & I'm hittin my macros on a bulk so the energy is certainly there to start!
    Not tryin to single u out, but u guys really should pay attention to the guys that have been runnin it for a few cycles, cause if you have it's obvious that the beginning is very easy, especially if u start a little light
    You're not doing anything wrong as long as u tested for your 10 rep max's & u are following the program with no changes...it gets very hard the closer u get to ringing out the program!
    Just keep goin!

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    Originally Posted by 64509chvl View Post
    Bro...are u reading the posts, lol! Myself & a few others that are close to the "intermediate" level & gettin up there in cycles are really startin to struggle to make it through some heavy days! I think it was last Monday...halfway through the 2nd set of biceps I said fu** it! Too damn exhausted & I'm hittin my macros on a bulk so the energy is certainly there to start!
    Not tryin to single u out, but u guys really should pay attention to the guys that have been runnin it for a few cycles, cause if you have it's obvious that the beginning is very easy, especially if u start a little light
    You're not doing anything wrong as long as u tested for your 10 rep max's & u are following the program with no changes...it gets very hard the closer u get to ringing out the program!
    Just keep goin!
    Alright, thanks man lol. I just wanted to make sure that I'm not doing anything wrong, I can't wait for it to get hard, I get so pumped on the days I work out lol.

  22. #7402
    Registered User halisray's Avatar
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    I have a bit of belly fat, I can feel my abs underneath and my top 2 show a bit... I am on my 2nd week of 2nd cycle, I have gained muscle and people have commented on it but I still have that little fat around my midsection. I used to be overweight/chubby 4 years back.. will I ever be able to shake it off? I eat pretty heathy to be honest; will progressing through this workout help that?

    Also, at what point will I see true results? I mean I've gotten a bit bigger but nothing crazy... I guess that happens 3-4 months down the line?

    One last bit: I take whey protein after each workout, should I take it on off days as well?

    Thanks!

  23. #7403
    Registered User 64509chvl's Avatar
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    Halisray...results IMO are very much dependent on your diet...it has to be consistent & on target for what your goals are! Sounds like your a little weary of gettin fat you should just eat at maintenance & try some recomp, that should help with the belly fat some! Personally...I recomped the 1st couple cycles ( it did work), but I want to take advantage of all my noob gains so I've been bulking ever since & will continue untill I ring this program out!
    As for protien...try to eat the same amount every day, I target 1.5 grams per pound of my lean body mass...so I usually eat 200-220 grams of protien daily using protien powder as a supplement for my daily intake, but always down a 50 gram shake right after a workout! Lots of opinions on this...I suggest u go over to the Nutrition section & read the stickies!

  24. #7404
    Registered User kairos075's Avatar
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    Err uhh please someone answer my questions. Im horribly lost.. -__-

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    How do you warm up with 25% weight if you start with 80 lbs and the bar weighs 45 lbs? Does not make sense.

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    Registered User 64509chvl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kairos075 View Post
    Err uhh please someone answer my questions. Im horribly lost.. -__-
    4th week is too early for your issues! How accurate we're your 10 rep max's? How's your diet...are u eating at a deficit? Regardless too early IMO! Think u just started too heavy!
    I noticed u mentioned no "machines" were open for bench? Don't do that...if no bench & bar are available, better to substitute with dumbells than machines!

  27. #7407
    Registered User 64509chvl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by adambannon View Post
    How do you warm up with 25% weight if you start with 80 lbs and the bar weighs 45 lbs? Does not make sense.
    Just use the 45 pound bar for both warmups...my BOR started at 85 & that's what I did & had no issues!

  28. #7408
    Registered User subsonik2nine's Avatar
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    Does anyone think that 25% off your work sets weight is way too light for a warmup? Today was my first day running this cycle 1, week 1, day1.

  29. #7409
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    Originally Posted by subsonik2nine View Post
    Does anyone think that 25% off your work sets weight is way too light for a warmup? Today was my first day running this cycle 1, week 1, day1.
    I would just follow the program as is and read this entire thread. Your question has been answered many times. I am in the 4th week of the first cycle and I can tell you that the warmup sets start to feel like a lot of work when you get to 11 reps.

  30. #7410
    Registered User 64509chvl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by subsonik2nine View Post
    Does anyone think that 25% off your work sets weight is way too light for a warmup? Today was my first day running this cycle 1, week 1, day1.
    Nope...that plus the 50% warms me up plenty!

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