Weightlifting Magic - Fat to Muscle

[Stizzle]

So lots of articles here on bb.com about losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time. I've read for the most part that it isn't possible. I have also read that it is the article stated that if you follow a calorie restricted diet your body will use the stored calories in your fat to help create new muscle. So while i've come to understand that the belief of turning fat into muscle is impossible, this article has made me believe that it is.

Any one out there with any experience here? Any feedback? Anything would be apprecited, thanks.

[tanajerner]

you can do both at the same time

its just not practical

[babyslayer]

im not sure if you can turn fat into muscle

but how many times have we seen fat guys diet while gaining musclemass?

it happens like every time a fat guy starts lifting weights while dieting.

[tanajerner]

im not sure if you can turn fat into muscle

but how many times have we seen fat guys diet while gaining musclemass?

it happens like every time a fat guy starts lifting weights while dieting.

you cant turn fat into muscle it would be like turning lead into gold

fat people that havent lifted before generally do see a lot of muscle devlopment as they drop fat but thats initial gains it wont last forever

[Cape1]

you cant turn fat into muscle it would be like turning lead into gold

fat people that havent lifted before generally do see a lot of muscle devlopment as they drop fat but thats initial gains it wont last forever

They usually see CNS adaptation and their muscles (those that they do have) becoming better at storing nutrients - protein, Glycogen, Water etc. This sheds the illusion of doing both. But, nobody is gaining muscle and loosing fat at the same time.

[msm00b]

Depending on your starting point, you can do both at the same time.

[morrikj777]

I've seen muscle gain and fat loss since I started working out. However, I have never really did any serious lifting so all the gains I make are new to me. I'm not living in the fantasy that I'm losing fat to gain muscle either. I just use moderate to heavy lifting to burn calories rather than hours of cardio.

[ejthomp]

Any one out there with any experience here? Any feedback? Anything would be apprecited, thanks.

At 5'10" and 300 pounds, you have one mission.... lose body fat....

To do that you control your calories in.... you lift weights to preserve muscle and speed up fat loss....

A morbidly obese individual doesn't need to be concerned with muscle gain or loss. Lose 100 pounds of body fat.... THEN look in the mirror and see what is left.

Personally, I lost 60 pounds of body fat and had virtually no change in lean body mass. Though I didn't gain any muscle, I didn't lose any either....although everyone remarked about how much muscle I had gained...as I LOOKED much more muscular once all the fat was gone.

[jamesyboi]

What ejthomp said.


And above - you can't turn fat into muscle, they are 2 completely different things.

You can lose fat with diet and cardio/weights but should be able to retain more muscle by watching just how much cardio you do and concentrating on lifting heavy weights several times a week, rather than just doing heaps of cardio to lose weight ( when you could be not only losing fat but muscle also - seen the builds on marathon runners? they are lean but have not much muscle mass.)

[Cape1]

Depending on your starting point, you can do both at the same time.

How does your body store and burn nutrients at the same time? Do mean "same time"; or do you mean that during the same stretch...lets say 16 weeks for excample, one could have periods of anabolism and during others have catabolism. Because as far as I know you're body can not be in those two different states simultaneously.

[msm00b]

How does your body store and burn nutrients at the same time? Do mean "same time"; or do you mean that during the same stretch...lets say 16 weeks for excample, one could have periods of anabolism and during others have catabolism. Because as far as I know you're body can not be in those two different states simultaneously.

Our bodies live in a constant state of catabolism and anabolism. If you could only exist in a single state, our bodies couldn't do the basic maintenance tasks in a dietary deficit ... and we know that isn't the case at all. Be careful having an overly simplistic view of how our bodies can and cannot function. Burning fat and building muscle are not mutually exclusive.

The rules also change depending on level of training. A well conditioned athlete may be focusing entirely on preventing loss if what he already has while the less conditioned person can expect to make gains.

[Cape1]

Our bodies live in a constant state of catabolism and anabolism. If you could only exist in a single state, our bodies couldn't do the basic maintenance tasks in a dietary deficit ... and we know that isn't the case at all. Be careful having an overly simplistic view of how our bodies can and cannot function. Burning fat and building muscle are not mutually exclusive.

The rules also change depending on level of training. A well conditioned athlete may be focusing entirely on preventing loss if what he already has while the less conditioned person can expect to make gains.

SUre, I understand what you're saying but at "exactly" the same time, the two are, in fact, mutually exclusive, right? I know that during the day there are periods of both. For example, you would be hard pressed, may even be impossible, to remain Anabolic for 24 hours consistently, right?

I know for me, I have to pick a goal. I can't do both.. not without significant chemical assistance at this point, which would have its own drawbacks.

[jon922]

I am eating at maintenance and lifting moderate 4 days a week. I am seeing muscle gains and losing fat at the same time. Not same time as in the exact same moment but my bodyfat % is going down without losing a significant amount of weight and my strength is going up.

[VAnick]

They usually see CNS adaptation and their muscles (those that they do have) becoming better at storing nutrients - protein, Glycogen, Water etc. This sheds the illusion of doing both. But, nobody is gaining muscle and loosing fat at the same time.

THIS.

Newb gains are generally "all in your head" - meaning it is building and optimizing connections it never (or lost) had before, for the sake of efficient muscle use.

[msm00b]

SUre, I understand what you're saying but at "exactly" the same time, the two are, in fact, mutually exclusive, right? I know that during the day there are periods of both. For example, you would be hard pressed, may even be impossible, to remain Anabolic for 24 hours consistently, right?

I'd hesitate to say that they are ever mutually exclusive. Catabolism and anabolism happen with various substrates literally simultaneously in our bodies. If this weren't possible, life as we know it would not be possible without a constant stream of dietary calories. Fat in our bodies exists for this very reason - it gives us a steady stream of energy when we don't have it immediately available in the form of food. From a biochemical standpoint, repairing damaged muscle cells isn't all that different from ongoing synthesis of immunoglobulin ... wound healing ... you name it. Our bodies have a constant stream of crap they absolutely have to do to keep the mothership running. Our bodies manage these things just fine on a dietary deficit thanks to utilized fat stores ... muscle repair isn't that different. This is what I mean when I say that we live in a constant state of balanced catabolism and anabolism (globally - and not just with regards to fat and muscle).

Now, this isn't to say that conditions aren't a lot more favorable in a dietary surplus. We know for a fact that wound healing, the immune system, and muscle anabolism are functioning at peak levels when the 'budget is balanced - or in a surplus' from a dietary standpoint. You build strength and put on muscle mass better in a surplus.

The situation gets stickier when you consider the highly conditioned athlete. The larger your muscles get and the more "trained" your body becomes ... the greater time and effort you have to spend working out just to maintain ... let alone continue to grow. For the highly conditioned body (like yours Cape - as well as pretty much every famous bodybuilder), continuing to make lean gains on a cut just isn't really a reasonable expectation. In an unfavorable environment (ie a dietary deficit), the focus should remain on maintenance and prevention of loss. The problem is that when people try to apply this scenario across the board. Most people are not highly conditioned. Very few people have the kind of training and lean mass to fall into this category - and that's why you have hundreds of transformation stories where the chubby untrained guy loses a bunch of weight and actually puts on some muscle mass. Or the relatively amateur guy who used to lift but is now hopelessly out of shape manages to lose a bunch of mass, wake up the muscle he used to have - and build some above and beyond where he ever was before while at the same time losing fat. That was my story.

So yeah, it's complicated. I'm not the expert, but I have enough basic knowledge to know that it's not as simple as "you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time" ... nor is it as simple as "anyone can build muscle and lose fat at the same time". Genetics plays an important role. Diet is supremely important. Level of relative training is important, and all of these things will have an impact on the final product and outcome of a cutting cycle.

I know for me, I have to pick a goal. I can't do both.. not without significant chemical assistance at this point, which would have its own drawbacks.

I whole heartedly agree. Nobody knows your body like you, and nobody knows how you respond better than you. That, and quite frankly you are at a level of training well beyond the both the average gym-rat and average noob looking to kickstart his transformation.

THIS.

Newb gains are generally "all in your head" - meaning it is building and optimizing connections it never (or lost) had before, for the sake of efficient muscle use.

Newb gains and "all in my head" provide zero explanation for the results of my cut. I'm not a newbie to lifting. I wasn't obese, and measurement GAINS despite fat loss in some of my more muscular region can't be explained by really any other means. Yes my muscles looked bigger once you trimmed the fat, but in good ways my clothes stopped fitting the way they used to. My chest/back pop out of the medium shirts my softish man-boobs used to comfortably slide into. The sleeves of my shirts are significantly tighter ... all the while my waist-line shrunk considerably.

Point is I put on some muscle during my cut. Not as much as I would have gained at a calorie surplus, but I had both improvements in measurements and significant improvements in strength beyond any level I had previously trained to. I'm sure some of my weeks here and there ended up at a slight calorie surplus, but the trajectory was obviously consistent with measurable fat loss.

[vadimroschin]

Losing fat AND gaining muscle IS possible... Works for me!

This guy explains it well through a short video at how both are POSSIBLE at the same time...

Scoobysworkshop.com

In simple words... you would reduce your daily calorie intake by a few hundred calories so your body can start using your stored fat... You need to lift weights so you don't lose your existing muscle and gain more muscle (in my case, I workout at home every couple of days using my own body weight), while still giving your body plenty of protein with the calories you do take in daily.

It's a slow process but it's sure to get you there.

But of course, using FAT to turn into MUSCLE is not possible!

[Cape1]

I'd hesitate to say that they are ever mutually exclusive. Catabolism and anabolism happen with various substrates literally simultaneously in our bodies. If this weren't possible, life as we know it would not be possible without a constant stream of dietary calories. Fat in our bodies exists for this very reason - it gives us a steady stream of energy when we don't have it immediately available in the form of food. From a biochemical standpoint, repairing damaged muscle cells isn't all that different from ongoing synthesis of immunoglobulin ... wound healing ... you name it. Our bodies have a constant stream of crap they absolutely have to do to keep the mothership running. Our bodies manage these things just fine on a dietary deficit thanks to utilized fat stores ... muscle repair isn't that different. This is what I mean when I say that we live in a constant state of balanced catabolism and anabolism (globally - and not just with regards to fat and muscle).

Now, this isn't to say that conditions aren't a lot more favorable in a dietary surplus. We know for a fact that wound healing, the immune system, and muscle anabolism are functioning at peak levels when the 'budget is balanced - or in a surplus' from a dietary standpoint. You build strength and put on muscle mass better in a surplus.

The situation gets stickier when you consider the highly conditioned athlete. The larger your muscles get and the more "trained" your body becomes ... the greater time and effort you have to spend working out just to maintain ... let alone continue to grow. For the highly conditioned body (like yours Cape - as well as pretty much every famous bodybuilder), continuing to make lean gains on a cut just isn't really a reasonable expectation. In an unfavorable environment (ie a dietary deficit), the focus should remain on maintenance and prevention of loss. The problem is that when people try to apply this scenario across the board. Most people are not highly conditioned. Very few people have the kind of training and lean mass to fall into this category - and that's why you have hundreds of transformation stories where the chubby untrained guy loses a bunch of weight and actually puts on some muscle mass. Or the relatively amateur guy who used to lift but is now hopelessly out of shape manages to lose a bunch of mass, wake up the muscle he used to have - and build some above and beyond where he ever was before while at the same time losing fat. That was my story.

So yeah, it's complicated. I'm not the expert, but I have enough basic knowledge to know that it's not as simple as "you can't build muscle and lose fat at the same time" ... nor is it as simple as "anyone can build muscle and lose fat at the same time". Genetics plays an important role. Diet is supremely important. Level of relative training is important, and all of these things will have an impact on the final product and outcome of a cutting cycle.



I whole heartedly agree. Nobody knows your body like you, and nobody knows how you respond better than you. That, and quite frankly you are at a level of training well beyond the both the average gym-rat and average noob looking to kickstart his transformation.



Newb gains and "all in my head" provide zero explanation for the results of my cut. I'm not a newbie to lifting. I wasn't obese, and measurement GAINS despite fat loss in some of my more muscular region can't be explained by really any other means. Yes my muscles looked bigger once you trimmed the fat, but in good ways my clothes stopped fitting the way they used to. My chest/back pop out of the medium shirts my softish man-boobs used to comfortably slide into. The sleeves of my shirts are significantly tighter ... all the while my waist-line shrunk considerably.

Point is I put on some muscle during my cut. Not as much as I would have gained at a calorie surplus, but I had both improvements in measurements and significant improvements in strength beyond any level I had previously trained to. I'm sure some of my weeks here and there ended up at a slight calorie surplus, but the trajectory was obviously consistent with measurable fat loss.

Good post MSM. YOu definitely seem to have a handle on the subject. I like the "account- balance" metephore. I think it really comes down to that in the end. IN fact, I think the hardest thing for most people is finding a baseline - i.e., that point at which "the books are balanced". From there, you "Tilt" one way or another. In Financial Advising, we refer to this as a Thematic Tilt. Meaning, your portfolio is what it's intended to be based on your goals but then you may Tilt towards a theme - e.g., perhaps more exposure to a certain Sector or even individual security. For diet and training, you tilt the program towards one goal or another - loosing fat or gaining muscle. Gaining muscle (real muscle and not the water and fat people like to pretend is muscle) is MUCH harder than loosing fat for most. Trying to do so without a constant stream of nutrients in your body is almost futile; and, unfortunately, this environment, at the very best, favors fat loss at a snails pace. Just my unscientific two cents.

In my experience, picking one overall "theme" and sticking to it like glue is the most effective approach. It's allot easier to meet a goal that is deliberate and methodical than to attempt multiple things at once (like many things in life). I mean, imagine, in your case, trying to go to Medical School but at the same time studying for the LSAT because you think you may want to go into Law at some point. Sometimes it's better to attack one goal, nail it down tight and then attack another one.

Good post though.

[ejthomp]

In my experience, picking one overall "theme" and sticking to it like glue is the most effective approach. It's allot easier to meet a goal that is deliberate and methodical than to attempt multiple things at once (like many things in life).

......Sometimes it's better to attack one goal, nail it down tight and then attack another one.

Nice post!

This is especially pertinent in this forum where many of us are delusional fatties thinking we can take some of the extra 40 pounds of body fat we carry and magically turn it into muscle.

If you are over 15% body fat, you shouldn't be allowed to distract yourself with the thought of muscle gain while losing fat.... Concentrate 100% on losing the excess body fat. End of story. Upon reaching your goal weight, re-evaluate. If you happened to have gained a few pounds of muscle in the cutting process....FREE BONUS!

I still maintain that most of the lean body mass that people say they put on while losing body fat is nothing but illusion and wishful thinking. It's impossible to accurately measure body fat at any body fat level, but over 20% it is really guess work. You can add or subtract many pounds of lean body mass by being off a couple percent. Chasing body fat and lean body mass calculations is nonsense. At the end of the day, all you can do is guess. But the mirror is what tells you the real truth.

[DiamondDelt]

I have gained *a lot* of muscle (from none) and lost *a lot* of fat over the last 6 months. However, I know I did not gain as much muscle as I could have, or will, once I'm done my calorie restricted diet and am at the bodyfat % I want. Once that occurs I plan to clean bulk up and gain more muscle. So yes, it can be done, somewhat. At first, you will lose a lot of fat, and you will gain some muscle, but not as much as you could if you just focused on being really fat and with muscles buried somewhere underneath lol