fat:protein on CKD

[MrMatt101]

My first post!!!

I'm currently in my 3rd day of ckd. I'd say it's going well so far
much easier than i thought, not craving carbs or feeling hungry..

I'm 19, 6'1", 191 pounds. I'd guess around 14% bodyfat..

my reasons for doing it are to loose a bit of fat that came with my first proper attempt at gaining weight,
whilst trying to maintain as much muscle as i can. So i'm going for the no carb in the week,
maybe a couple of oranges(?) before friday's workout, followed by a carb up till saturday night.

My nutrition log so far consists of:

Monday
cals - 2299
fat - 163g
saturated fat - 63g
protein - 179g
carbs - 31g

Tuesday
cals - 2368
fat - 154g
saturated fat - 48g
protein - 223g
carbs - 18g

I know I need to be eating more fat as the ratio of fat to protein should be higher
BUT is my protein intake too high??? - especially on the tuesday...

any responses would be greatly appreciated

[queloque]

It looks fine.

It looks like you are eating just a tad bit over 1 gram of protien per pounf of LBW.

Is that the ratio you want?

[MrMatt101]

It looks fine.

It looks like you are eating just a tad bit over 1 gram of protien per pounf of LBW.

Is that the ratio you want?

excellent

ermm as long as it wont prevent ketosis then i guess so!

[TaoistWarrior]

It looks fine. If I were you, I would cut protein a little and up fat a little, but that's me. I dont limit fat until the initial induction period is over and keep protein around 1 gm/lb. But I'd say were splitting hairs a little esp. for this early stage in your CKD. In general, it probably doesn't matter that much.

[MrMatt101]

It looks fine. If I were you, I would cut protein a little and up fat a little, but that's me. I dont limit fat until the initial induction period is over and keep protein around 1 gm/lb. But I'd say were splitting hairs a little esp. for this early stage in your CKD. In general, it probably doesn't matter that much.

cheers, i'll keep that in mind (Y)
also, at the moment on a workout day i've been taking a protein shake in the morning as well as after the workout,
should I cut the morning one to help lower the protein levels?


today's nutrition log:

Wednesday
cals - 2708
fat - 210g
saturated fat - 66g
protein - 200g
carbs - 21g
(had a bit of extra mayo, cheese and olive oil to up the fat)

[TaoistWarrior]

I dont take a shake post-workout at all. Have a small one 1-1.5 hours before workout and just eat a whole food meal whenever I can after. If you cut a shake or two that'll def. help lower your pro level.

[MHSETRadTech]

I disagree with the last statement. Take your pwo shake and don't consume days for at least 45 min after workout. Macros are pretty good. It took me a while to be able to consistantly hit my ratios correctly

[MrMatt101]

I disagree with the last statement. Take your pwo shake and don't consume days for at least 45 min after workout. Macros are pretty good. It took me a while to be able to consistantly hit my ratios correctly

i take it you meant fats, not days?

yeah i think i'll continue taking the pwo shake, but cut the morning one.
ive been eating basically the same things every day so ill just tweak them slightly to get the right ratios.
how long have you been on keto btw?

[alex2363]

My first post!!!

I'm currently in my 3rd day of ckd. I'd say it's going well so far
much easier than i thought, not craving carbs or feeling hungry..

I'm 19, 6'1", 191 pounds. I'd guess around 14% bodyfat..

my reasons for doing it are to loose a bit of fat that came with my first proper attempt at gaining weight,
whilst trying to maintain as much muscle as i can. So i'm going for the no carb in the week,
maybe a couple of oranges(?) before friday's workout, followed by a carb up till saturday night.

My nutrition log so far consists of:

Monday
cals - 2299
fat - 163g
saturated fat - 63g
protein - 179g
carbs - 31g

Tuesday
cals - 2368
fat - 154g
saturated fat - 48g
protein - 223g
carbs - 18g

I know I need to be eating more fat as the ratio of fat to protein should be higher
BUT is my protein intake too high??? - especially on the tuesday...

any responses would be greatly appreciated

looks close...Protein Per Day
164 grams or 657 calories.
Fat Per Day
224-267 grams or 2017-2399 calories.
Protein Per Meal
41 grams or 164 calories.
Fat Per Meal
56-67 grams or 504-600 calories.

[TaoistWarrior]

I disagree with the last statement. Take your pwo shake and don't consume days for at least 45 min after workout. Macros are pretty good. It took me a while to be able to consistantly hit my ratios correctly

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I think this statement is based on the "slam amino acids into your muscles ASAP after workout" theory, which has been disproven. The "anabolic window" is 24-48 hours after you workout, not 45 mins.

It also ignores the importance of pre-workout nutrition. If you do a meal or shake prior to your workout, even 2-3 hours, you are still digesting that protein by the time you hit your workout. Double that if you take Xtend or any of those other products intra-workout. So post-workout shake is not necessary.

[MHSETRadTech]

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I think this statement is based on the "slam amino acids into your muscles ASAP after workout" theory, which has been disproven. The "anabolic window" is 24-48 hours after you workout, not 45 mins.

It also ignores the importance of pre-workout nutrition. If you do a meal or shake prior to your workout, even 2-3 hours, you are still digesting that protein by the time you hit your workout. Double that if you take Xtend or any of those other products intra-workout. So post-workout shake is not necessary.

I am unaware of a study that disproved this theory. Do you have a link? I am interested.

BTW, yeah I meant fats not days, and been on Keto for 10 & 1/2 weeks.

[TaoistWarrior]

I am unaware of a study that disproved this theory. Do you have a link? I am interested.

BTW, yeah I meant fats not days, and been on Keto for 10 & 1/2 weeks.

This'll get you started.

http://www.simplyshredded.com/top-10...ve-barr-2.html

[loudz]

If its not broken don't fix it?

It has been preached and practiced over and over again clinically for years that it is optimatl to consume a "whey" type of protein within 30 minutes post workout along with 30-60 grams of a high GI carb(not here however with keto). Why not is the question? Its easy and refreshing in most cases. The only meal of the day where you don't want to consume fats in PWO. It slows digestion and you want the whey to digest asap.

OP, you don't need anymore than 200gs of protein per day. In some cases to much protein can prevent ketosis. From here set the amount of fats to the calorie count in which you wish to hit. If your trying to get super lean slower start decreasing the amount of dietary fats while increasing low state cardio. Create a deficit in your calorie count that allows your body to lose 2 lbs a week or so... this will allow for a minimal amount of muscle loss, if any.

[MrMatt101]

Thanks Alex for those macros!!

And Taoist, that's really interesting. Think I'll try both methods for a while and see if I notice a difference.

Sounds good to me loudz. So would you recommend lowering the fat slightly every week? I guess that would also involve lowering protein?

Thanks a lot so far everyone!!

[bbrock293]

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I think this statement is based on the "slam amino acids into your muscles ASAP after workout" theory, which has been disproven. The "anabolic window" is 24-48 hours after you workout, not 45 mins.

It also ignores the importance of pre-workout nutrition. If you do a meal or shake prior to your workout, even 2-3 hours, you are still digesting that protein by the time you hit your workout. Double that if you take Xtend or any of those other products intra-workout. So post-workout shake is not necessary.

Spot on.

[bbrock293]

I am unaware of a study that disproved this theory. Do you have a link? I am interested.

BTW, yeah I meant fats not days, and been on Keto for 10 & 1/2 weeks.

Check out these sites, they changed my life. Meal timing is irrevalent.

www.leangains.com
www.bodyrecomposition.com

[TaoistWarrior]

If its not broken don't fix it?

It has been preached and practiced over and over again clinically for years that it is optimatl to consume a "whey" type of protein within 30 minutes post workout along with 30-60 grams of a high GI carb(not here however with keto). Why not is the question? Its easy and refreshing in most cases. The only meal of the day where you don't want to consume fats in PWO. It slows digestion and you want the whey to digest asap.

All respect loudz, but it IS broken.

This is a myth perpetuated by supplement companies who wanted to market "fast protein" to millions of us. I used to sell this BS to my own clients. I was a protein proselytizer. But since this 1990s broscience was overturned, studies have elucidated some interesting facts:

1. Chocolate milk is just as good, if not better, than that expensive whey shake. The whey creates a rapid spike in blood AA concentration but cannot SUSTAIN it as long as milk.

2. Whole, full-fat milk (read: more fat) was found to be superior to SKIM for stimulating anabolism.

3. Tipton showed in 2001 that protein ingested immediately after a workout resulted in LESS protein synthesis than after a wait.

The studies used to promote this bs of the rapidly vanishing anabolic window post-workout were based on ELDERLY subjects and those using CARDIO training. Not young, healthy weightlifters.

Even without these studies, common sense lays it clear for us. For so long we were all laboring under the illusion that the only time you could eat da proteinz is post-workout. But pre-workout is a fine time to do this! And in fact has been found to be superior to post-workout nutrition for stimulating growth. Protein takes a long time to digest, even "fast protein." Eat some before your workout and you'll be solid.

The minimal effect of a post-workout shake is nothing compared to optimizing your nutrition on a daily basis. And it might be working against your success.

Shakes are still good esp. for those of us on CKD who can't/won't consume milk post-workout (I still do, just the raw organic stuff), but there's no need, and you might in fact be working against yourself, to do so immediately after your workout.

[loudz]

All respect loudz, but it IS broken.

This is a myth perpetuated by supplement companies who wanted to market "fast protein" to millions of us. I used to sell this BS to my own clients. I was a protein proselytizer. But since this 1990s broscience was overturned, studies have elucidated some interesting facts:

1. Chocolate milk is just as good, if not better, than that expensive whey shake. The whey creates a rapid spike in blood AA concentration but cannot SUSTAIN it as long as milk.

2. Whole, full-fat milk (read: more fat) was found to be superior to SKIM for stimulating anabolism.

3. Tipton showed in 2001 that protein ingested immediately after a workout resulted in LESS protein synthesis than after a wait.

The studies used to promote this bs of the rapidly vanishing anabolic window post-workout were based on ELDERLY subjects and those using CARDIO training. Not young, healthy weightlifters.

Even without these studies, common sense lays it clear for us. For so long we were all laboring under the illusion that the only time you could eat da proteinz is post-workout. But pre-workout is a fine time to do this! And in fact has been found to be superior to post-workout nutrition for stimulating growth. Protein takes a long time to digest, even "fast protein." Eat some before your workout and you'll be solid.

The minimal effect of a post-workout shake is nothing compared to optimizing your nutrition on a daily basis. And it might be working against your success.

Shakes are still good esp. for those of us on CKD who can't/won't consume milk post-workout (I still do, just the raw organic stuff), but there's no need, and you might in fact be working against yourself, to do so immediately after your workout.

Thanks for the taking the time to burst my bubble haha no, seriously though thanks, i'll pass this information on and maybe not preach as much about the PWO! However i'll still have my 40g whey waiting for me 30 mins PWO.

[loudz]

Thanks Alex for those macros!!

And Taoist, that's really interesting. Think I'll try both methods for a while and see if I notice a difference.

Sounds good to me loudz. So would you recommend lowering the fat slightly every week? I guess that would also involve lowering protein?

Thanks a lot so far everyone!!

It all depends, if you lowering your fat by 10% and lose 2lbs in the first week then don't change anything. Keep cardio the same as well. The only time you keep lowering is when you stop losing weight and your cardio is at about 5-7 times per week(first thing in the morning at about 65-75% of HRM). I mean at this point your not looking to step on stage so just keep your protein and fats around the same and add cardio.

Don't lower protein, At least 1g per LBM to prevent catabolism.

Again this is all my method and the way i've found keto to work best for me.

[MrMatt101]

It all depends, if you lowering your fat by 10% and lose 2lbs in the first week then don't change anything. Keep cardio the same as well. The only time you keep lowering is when you stop losing weight and your cardio is at about 5-7 times per week(first thing in the morning at about 65-75% of HRM). I mean at this point your not looking to step on stage so just keep your protein and fats around the same and add cardio.

Don't lower protein, At least 1g per LBM to prevent catabolism.

Again this is all my method and the way i've found keto to work best for me.

brilliant thanks a lot, i'll keep that in mind if i start to plateau.
wish me luck!

[zstanton]

out of curiosity is there any research on muscle preservation and keto in which protein is set at 1 g per lb LBM and 1.5 lb LBM??