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  1. #5971
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    Originally Posted by postgrad21 View Post
    Originally Posted by Adrian77 View Post
    The calorie recommendations is purposely higher initially to make sure you have enough to cope with the 5 x 1+ hours of HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) and the 280+ mins of LISS (Low Intensity Steady State) training each week. It also helps to reset guys who have been dieting before starting the program to make sure their thyroid is kicked into gear. If you have been dieting up until now, then you should do something similar.

    Each week you will be cutting calories and/or increasing cardio so there are plenty of opportunities to adjust where necessary to keep you within the 1-2lb weekly weight loss target range.

    The hard part for Kris is making things one size fit all so nobody can f`uck it up and blame him. So everything tends to be very black and white. If you know what you are doing then you can afford to be more grey. I'd recommend running what you are eating now, and as long as you don't lose more than 2lbs and no less than 1lb then you can continue. The key is being able to measure how much you eat daily so you know what impact reductions will make to your body.

    When you plateau, simply decrease your calories by about 10% and see what happens the following week. Kris reduces carbs by 25% each time which works out to be roughly the same considering most people start somewhere around 2500-3000 calories. Keeping protein high makes it easier because it takes 30% more energy to break down meat than carb and it also keeps you fuller longer.

    Use this site to work out where you are now:

    Sweet. Thanks for that reply, I can't seem to find where it describes HIIT and LISS sessions in the trainer? Currently at Day 2

    Also, Isn't it better using the exact label values as I use them and record in MyfitnessPal ? That site is very generic so it's hard to get the exact values of what I'm consuming here in Aus.
    The lifting routine is HIIT style training. He doesn't call it that, but that's what it is. That's why you are limited in your rest time.

    LISS is the walking at about 60% of your max heart rate. Once again he doesn't name it but that's what it is.

    If you have your way of tracking calories then go for it.
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  2. #5972
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    Originally Posted by TheAesir View Post
    Hey guys I'm interested in starting this program but I have a few questions:

    My gym doesn't have a hack squat machine... what's a suitable exercise to use as an equivalent? The dumb bells in my gym only go up to 60lbs, and that isn't heavy enough to challenge me to use as a main movement. Can I replace all the dumb bell pressing variants with barbell movement? Lastly, I'm insulin resistant and eating the least bit of carbs causes me to gain a bunch of weight. Because of this I'm on a ketogenic diet. Can still use this program while on keto?

    Thanks,

    TheAesir

    PS- about the cardio of the program... I've already committed myself to c25k and it is one of my immediate goals to finish the program. Can I use c25k for my cardio until I finish that program and then take up the 2x a day cardio?
    Lunges are fine or Romanian squats. By using one leg you double the weight in a sense. The easiest option is to just do more leg press machine but have your feet at the top of the plate.

    Swapping exercises is fine as long as you have good technique. Bar exercises require more technique to get the most out of it and not cause injury.

    Aren't you on medication for your diabetes? This program ends up being very keto by the end. But you may have issues with having enough energy to get through the training over 12 weeks if you aren't able to eat carbs. At 294lbs you might consider doing something a bit tamer at first like all of the walking until you get down to 250 or so. You run the diet the same ie cut calories by 10% every time you don't lose at least 1.5lbs (but no more than 2lbs) or increase cardio by 5 mins/session. Also check with your doctor and show him the program before you start. I think he might not think it's a good idea either.
    Last edited by Adrian77; 01-07-2013 at 10:54 PM.
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  3. #5973
    Registered Fat Kunt TheAesir's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Adrian77 View Post
    Lunges are fine or Romanian squats. By using one leg you double the weight in a sense. The easiest option is to just do more leg press machine but have your feet at the top of the plate.

    Swapping exercises is fine as long as you have good technique. Bar exercises require more technique to get the most out of it and not cause injury.

    Aren't you on medication for your diabetes? This program ends up being very keto by the end. But you may have issues with having enough energy to get through the training over 12 weeks if you aren't able to eat carbs. At 294lbs you might consider doing something a bit tamer at first like all of the walking until you get down to 250 or so. You run the diet the same ie cut calories by 10% every time you don't lose at least 1.5lbs (but no more than 2lbs) or increase cardio by 5 mins/session. Also check with your doctor and show him the program before you start. I think he might not think it's a good idea either.

    Thanks for your response. Just to clarify: I'm not diabetic or hypoglycemic. My body just doesn't like carbs (in it's current state) As far as the workout itself, the only thing I'm concerned with is the volume and the 2x/day cardio while being at a deficit + keto. I've been lifting consistently (but not watching what I eat so much) for the past year and recomped/lost 30lbs so I'm not entirely new to lifting.
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  4. #5974
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    Originally Posted by postgrad21 View Post
    Also, Isn't it better using the exact label values as I use them and record in MyfitnessPal ? That site is very generic so it's hard to get the exact values of what I'm consuming here in Aus.
    Use Calorieking, their database has probably 95% of products you'll find on the shelf in Australia. They have an app now too, but I havent tried it out yet.
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  5. #5975
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    Originally Posted by TheAesir View Post
    Thanks for your response. Just to clarify: I'm not diabetic or hypoglycemic. My body just doesn't like carbs (in it's current state) As far as the workout itself, the only thing I'm concerned with is the volume and the 2x/day cardio while being at a deficit + keto. I've been lifting consistently (but not watching what I eat so much) for the past year and recomped/lost 30lbs so I'm not entirely new to lifting.
    Well that's my point, the caloric demands of this program are high and without carbs your body is relying on breaking down protein for energy which is much harder to do. You are doing an hour plus of HIIT, meaning you are pushing as hard as you can and then only getting 2 mins break before you have to go again. Then on top of this there is all the walking.

    My concern is that given the circumstances, it may to too much too soon at this point and you need to build up to doing this program first. Speaking to your doctor is probably a good idea anyway.

    At 297lbs, you will probably find that walking 60 mins a day plus a more normal gym routine like Allpro's in the stickies is the best way to go.
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  6. #5976
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    Originally Posted by phealey View Post
    Use Calorieking, their database has probably 95% of products you'll find on the shelf in Australia. They have an app now too, but I havent tried it out yet.
    I just scan the barcode with my iphone bro, it's hell easy. After you scan, just adjust etc.

    Only downside is unless you do it all in one go, meal prep can take much longer than normal (weighin it out and ****)
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  7. #5977
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    While I haven't been doing your program (however, I've done it twice) in a very long time, I thought I would show my progress and give thanks to the program that helped me get excited to get to the gym every waking minute. Also, while I don't go the bodybuilding routines, I do powerlifting. None the less, a big thank you Kris for the motivation and giving me the willpower and the knowledge to start going to the gym. Cheers.

    Pictures are attached below. One year.
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  8. #5978
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    That's mostly what i will do, untill i get to my goal ill still do the type of training programmed, but afterwards perhabs going for more bulk type, can it be done with the HIIT style training ?
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  9. #5979
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    Would I be able to snack on beef jerkey for this diet? I'm looking at the nutrition facts and it includes 70 calories, 520mg sodium, 1g fat, 6g sugar and 11g protein in a 28g serving size.

    I'm assuming because of the high sodium and sugar that this is a no no
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  10. #5980
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    Originally Posted by Krabz View Post
    That's mostly what i will do, untill i get to my goal ill still do the type of training programmed, but afterwards perhabs going for more bulk type, can it be done with the HIIT style training ?
    less reps, more mass.
    "Three things can not hide for long:the Moon, the Sun and the Truth"
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  11. #5981
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    Hey guys i want to do this program but i can't train on monday so can i just move the monday workout to tuesday's and just continue wit the program. Thx.
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  12. #5982
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    Originally Posted by whoyoube View Post
    less reps, more mass.
    To a point. After that it becomes more strength than size.
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  13. #5983
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    Originally Posted by spartanftw View Post
    Hey guys i want to do this program but i can't train on monday so can i just move the monday workout to tuesday's and just continue wit the program. Thx.
    Yes. Just move things around to suit you but try not to lift more than 3 days in a row. Kris moves things around and it is annoying because you are compensating for the things he did rather than it being optimal for you.
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  14. #5984
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    Hi guys, is it okay if I finished all these exercise for more than 1 hour? because some research say to not let your wo for longer then 1 hour..
    and is it okay to do cardio for 40 minutes in a 1 wo? because I read "When you perform conventional cardio for long periods of time, it's been found to deteriorate muscle tissue and decrease testosterone levels"..
    thx
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  15. #5985
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    Originally Posted by GraySpec View Post
    Hi guys, is it okay if I finished all these exercise for more than 1 hour? because some research say to not let your wo for longer then 1 hour..
    and is it okay to do cardio for 40 minutes in a 1 wo? because I read "When you perform conventional cardio for long periods of time, it's been found to deteriorate muscle tissue and decrease testosterone levels"..
    thx
    The one hour thing is over rated. This program is about burning calories and retaining muscle. You would not do this program to add huge amounts of mass.

    You should be splitting your cardio one post workout one at the other end of the day.

    You are not doing conventional cardio (60-80% of max heart rate), you are training at no higher than 60% of your max heart rate. So mostly walking fast.
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  16. #5986
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    Originally Posted by Krabz View Post
    That's mostly what i will do, untill i get to my goal ill still do the type of training programmed, but afterwards perhabs going for more bulk type, can it be done with the HIIT style training ?
    Can you explain what you mean by bulk type training?
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  17. #5987
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    Originally Posted by Adrian77 View Post
    The one hour thing is over rated. This program is about burning calories and retaining muscle. You would not do this program to add huge amounts of mass.

    You should be splitting your cardio one post workout one at the other end of the day.

    You are not doing conventional cardio (60-80% of max heart rate), you are training at no higher than 60% of your max heart rate. So mostly walking fast.
    So this program is not for who want to add more muscle?

    My body weight is 67 kgs and have a height 172 cm. My goal isn't like "big guy" but more like chris evan "human torch", brad pitt "thor".

    Is it the right program?
    Last edited by GraySpec; 01-08-2013 at 07:53 PM.
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  18. #5988
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    @Adrian77,

    Rate my intake for today and training:

    Nutrition: www(dot) myfitnesspal (dot) com/food/diary/dcummins123 Date is 9th Jan 2013

    Day 3 of Gethin Trainer: Morning- 20-30mins bike riding up and down my road at around 60% - 80% heart rate max Evening - About to do 30-40mins 6.5speed 6incline treadmill(129-145 heart rate average @21 years old)

    Am I doing this right?

    I'm trying to keep meals consistent without fat gain or anything so have been gradually increasing carbs. (the beans i ate in meal 1 fit the macros but I don't intend on making that a regular thing).
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  19. #5989
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    Originally Posted by GraySpec View Post
    So this program is not for who want to add more muscle?

    My body weight is 67 kgs and have a height 172 cm. My goal isn't like "big guy" but more like chris evan "human torch", brad pitt "thor".

    Is it the right program?
    Because you are eating less calories than you burn, it's very hard for your body to add muscle mass. Newbies who are overweight can do it for a while but it doesn't last forever. You will notice in most pre and post photos, people don't get much bigger, they simply get leaner which makes them look bigger. Kris himself is a good example. He basically did a dirty bulk leading up to the videos then cut the fat he accumulated.

    The process is the same whether you want to be Brad Pitt in Troy or Chris Hemsworth in Thor. How big you get is purely how long you go before you purposely stop progressing the weight (up until you get to your genetic potential). The fastest way is to bulk up to 15% BF by eating 300 calories above maintenance and cutting down to 10% by eating 500 calories below, while maintaining your protein and some form of weight lifting.

    In both cases, once you hit the size you want, you do a cut down to 7% BF to reveal your heard work.

    Is this the right program for you? Yes, if you need to get down to 10-12% BF. No if you are wanting to your size goal in a hurry.
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  20. #5990
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    Originally Posted by postgrad21 View Post
    @Adrian77,

    Rate my intake for today and training:

    Nutrition: www(dot) myfitnesspal (dot) com/food/diary/dcummins123 Date is 9th Jan 2013

    Day 3 of Gethin Trainer: Morning- 20-30mins bike riding up and down my road at around 60% - 80% heart rate max Evening - About to do 30-40mins 6.5speed 6incline treadmill(129-145 heart rate average @21 years old)

    Am I doing this right?

    I'm trying to keep meals consistent without fat gain or anything so have been gradually increasing carbs. (the beans i ate in meal 1 fit the macros but I don't intend on making that a regular thing).
    1800 is too low for you if you are 202lbs and 5'11". You should be starting the program at around 2600-3000 and end up at 1800 by the end. I'd say stick with the 1 fist of meat, veg, carbs and then go from there.

    If you start too low, you will end up losing a massive amount of weight in the first week or two but then completely stall because your cut was too severe and your metabolism has shut down.
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  21. #5991
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    Originally Posted by Adrian77 View Post
    1800 is too low for you if you are 202lbs and 5'11". You should be starting the program at around 2600-3000 and end up at 1800 by the end. I'd say stick with the 1 fist of meat, veg, carbs and then go from there.

    If you start too low, you will end up losing a massive amount of weight in the first week or two but then completely stall because your cut was too severe and your metabolism has shut down.
    Thanks Mate,
    I've been upping my calories. Getting in a shake or so.

    I'll keep updating you with my progress. I don't have any rep power otherwise I'd rep the hell outta ya haha
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  22. #5992
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    Originally Posted by Adrian77 View Post
    1800 is too low for you if you are 202lbs and 5'11". You should be starting the program at around 2600-3000 and end up at 1800 by the end. I'd say stick with the 1 fist of meat, veg, carbs and then go from there.
    For me at a similar height and weight when I've cut down in the past, I've always started at around 2200 calories, then dropped under 2000 towards the end.

    Previously(and as with the first week this year) I've dropped heavy in the first part but then levelled out at steady 1kg a week. I only seem to plateau when I get within a few kg's of my goal. It may be at the expense of some muscle though, but it's hard to tell without actively montioring BF (which I'm now not because my scales give crappy readings).

    3000 clean calories seems like a nightmare
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    Originally Posted by phealey View Post
    For me at a similar height and weight when I've cut down in the past, I've always started at around 2200 calories, then dropped under 2000 towards the end.

    Previously(and as with the first week this year) I've dropped heavy in the first part but then levelled out at steady 1kg a week. I only seem to plateau when I get within a few kg's of my goal. It may be at the expense of some muscle though, but it's hard to tell without actively montioring BF (which I'm now not because my scales give crappy readings).

    3000 clean calories seems like a nightmare
    Yeah but were you doing this level and volume of training?

    The reason why this program works is because you are eating a lot to try and keep your metabolism up and for you to never feel hungry, but you are doing a lot of exercise to burn it all up and then some.

    One of two things will happen. One, you will lose more than 2lbs a week for a couple of weeks, lose a lot of muscle then plateau around week 6 and nothing you do has much effect in reducing you BF%. Or two, your training will suffer, you can't keep up with it, you'll feel tired all the time and you drop out thinking that this sh!t was crazy and wonder how anyone could possibly finish.

    You really need to be measuring your body fat percentage. You are flying blind without it. You'll have no idea what you are losing without it. Losing 400-800g is ideal, losing more than that for prolonged periods of time is most likely to have muscle loss attached.

    The fact that you yoyo diet by so much is also a major problem. You are actually digging a big hole. You should be aiming to stay between 10-15% BF when cutting and bulking.
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    Originally Posted by postgrad21 View Post
    Thanks Mate,
    I've been upping my calories. Getting in a shake or so.

    I'll keep updating you with my progress. I don't have any rep power otherwise I'd rep the hell outta ya haha
    Haha, cool. That's ok, I don't do this for the rep points.

    You'll do ok as long as you make adjustments to keep you within 400-800g weight loss each week.
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    I must say calories are something I'm worried about. I am 185cm tall and 116kg and have started this program with around 1700cal daily intake.

    I know it sounds too low, but previously I've been on a 1800 cal diet for a few weeks and I actually gained weight?!
    So now I am very reluctant to go higher, I feel if I went to 2500 or higher I'd be gaining weight like no tomorrow.

    I'm waiting to see what happens after the first week, but yes, I am still also worried it may be too low.
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    Originally Posted by Adrian77 View Post
    Haha, cool. That's ok, I don't do this for the rep points.

    You'll do ok as long as you make adjustments to keep you within 400-800g weight loss each week.
    Cheers, noticed my metabolism has been firing today and I'm noticeably tighter and leaner so upped my intake for today as per the myfitnesspal link.

    Today did: 225C/ 47F/ 278P ~2476 calories but burnt ~ 550 cals in cardio

    Tomorrow meals will be a bit more uniform but I'm liking the effect it's having on my metabolism thus far - past 3 days been quite good!
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    What i mean Adrian77 is mostly switch abit to doing less reps with more weight like whoyoube and perhabs cut abit on the cardio and put more healthy fats on the diet, dunno if im right or
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    Originally Posted by Krabz View Post
    What i mean Adrian77 is mostly switch abit to doing less reps with more weight like whoyoube and perhabs cut abit on the cardio and put more healthy fats on the diet, dunno if im right or
    If you can lose 1-2lbs/week doing what you want to do then go for it, but if you are decreasing calorie expenditure and increasing calorie intake then you run the risk of not going anywhere. It really depends on how good you are at creating a 500-1000 calorie deficit with your own guidelines.
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    Originally Posted by postgrad21 View Post
    Cheers, noticed my metabolism has been firing today and I'm noticeably tighter and leaner so upped my intake for today as per the myfitnesspal link.

    Today did: 225C/ 47F/ 278P ~2476 calories but burnt ~ 550 cals in cardio

    Tomorrow meals will be a bit more uniform but I'm liking the effect it's having on my metabolism thus far - past 3 days been quite good!
    The only warning I should make is to be consistent for a week at least before you evaluate and change things. Weighing yourself daily is one way to make yourself go crazy. If you change things too quickly, sometimes you can get yourself all tangled up.

    As you get lower your body resists the weight loss. I can remember staying the same weight for 9 days and woke up the next morning 2lbs lighter all of a sudden. So sometimes patience is all that's needed. Keep up the good work!
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    Originally Posted by mikewither29 View Post
    I must say calories are something I'm worried about. I am 185cm tall and 116kg and have started this program with around 1700cal daily intake.

    I know it sounds too low, but previously I've been on a 1800 cal diet for a few weeks and I actually gained weight?!
    So now I am very reluctant to go higher, I feel if I went to 2500 or higher I'd be gaining weight like no tomorrow.

    I'm waiting to see what happens after the first week, but yes, I am still also worried it may be too low.
    That's not possible. You must have miscalculated something somewhere. If you were a foot shorter and half the weight, you'd still lose weight if you were really eating 1800 calories.

    The most common mistake is people who are eating the cooked measurement of rice but are using the raw measurement figure in the calculator. The other is the fat consumption. Whether it's in the dressings, on the pan, in the meat (skin or in the meat), on the bread, in the nuts, it hasn't been accounted for and it is the most expensive food in calorie terms. For every gram of fat, there are 9 calories. So fat tends to add up very quickly.

    Other hidden calories are things like BCAAs. There was this one guy who was drinking 9 servings of Xtend in his water every day not realising amino acids get converted into glucose in the liver if there is more than the minimum requirement consumed for the day. So 9 servings is 9 x 14g x 4 calories/gram = 504 calories. It's hidden because by FDA rules Xtend can claim it is zero calories, which is true before you put it in your mouth. But they are just being deceptive in reality.
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