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  1. #1
    Stay Strong all year long alex2363's Avatar
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    What happens if you dont eat enough fats and eat low carbs, can u still be keto?

    What happens if you dont eat enough fats and eat little to no carbs, will u still be in keto?
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  2. #2
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    yeah, i don't see why not. you should be fine, especially if you're fat-adapted.

    unless you're doing something like eating 90% protein which i doubt
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  3. #3
    Stay Strong all year long alex2363's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shadowwalker021 View Post
    yeah, i don't see why not. you should be fine, especially if you're fat-adapted.

    unless you're doing something like eating 90% protein which i doubt
    no, im eating moderate protien from foods and 1 or 2 whey shakes a day.
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  4. #4
    Sors Inanis shadowwalker021's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alex2363 View Post
    no, im eating moderate protien from foods and 1 or 2 whey shakes a day.
    yeah you should be fine. why not add some coconut oil to your whey shakes for added fat though?
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  5. #5
    Everyday=5/3/1+GPP+IFCTKD Atavis's Avatar
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    Potentially fatigue and maybe increased fatloss if the calorie deficit is high enough.
    "Arterial plaque is primarily composed of unsaturated fats particularly polyunsaturated ones." (Felton, C V, et al, Lancet, 1994, 344:1195)

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  6. #6
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    Originally Posted by shadowwalker021 View Post
    yeah you should be fine. why not add some coconut oil to your whey shakes for added fat though?
    What does it mean to be fat adapted and how do you know if you are?
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    Originally Posted by xshadowwalker021 View Post
    yeah you should be fine. why not add some coconut oil to your whey shakes for added fat though??
    Well a diet is still a diet, thus he still has to watch his calories. This comes down to the question of whether or not you think its worth adding 200+ calories for the sole purpose of increasing your fat ratio

    and xdeerizx, your fat adapted if your body is burning fat to make up for your calorie deficit. You can tell if you're eating very low carbs and showing purple on ketostix
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  8. #8
    Everyday=5/3/1+GPP+IFCTKD Atavis's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KCW88 View Post
    and xdeerizx, your fat adapted if your body is burning fat to make up for your calorie deficit. You can tell if you're eating very low carbs and showing purple on ketostix
    As you stay on the diet longer, you will likely notice that the stix stop showing excessive ketones being excreted in your urine. It's not a great sign for showing fat adaptation.
    "Arterial plaque is primarily composed of unsaturated fats particularly polyunsaturated ones." (Felton, C V, et al, Lancet, 1994, 344:1195)

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    ...or something like this daily. Problem? ;)

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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by shadowwalker021 View Post
    yeah, i don't see why not. you should be fine, especially if you're fat-adapted.

    unless you're doing something like eating 90% protein which i doubt
    you do realize that keto is not exactly the percentage of calories from protein, it really depends on the amount of protein, if you take in 200g of protein (800 cals) and 50g of fat (450 cals) and 30g carbs (120 cals) total of 1370 cals your protein is over 60%, but if you are 200 lbs then you are using the majority of that protein and therefore you will be in ketosis because you are using ketones for energy, to leave the state of ketosis due to glucogensis you have to be eating a crazy amount of protein compared to what your body utilizes for muscle repair
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  10. #10
    Stay Strong all year long alex2363's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shadowwalker021 View Post
    yeah you should be fine. why not add some coconut oil to your whey shakes for added fat though?
    i do at times ,but in coffee/tea mostly
    Originally Posted by Atavis View Post
    Potentially fatigue and maybe increased fatloss if the calorie deficit is high enough.
    thanx,
    Originally Posted by zstanton View Post
    you do realize that keto is not exactly the percentage of calories from protein, it really depends on the amount of protein, if you take in 200g of protein (800 cals) and 50g of fat (450 cals) and 30g carbs (120 cals) total of 1370 cals your protein is over 60%, but if you are 200 lbs then you are using the majority of that protein and therefore you will be in ketosis because you are using ketones for energy, to leave the state of ketosis due to glucogensis you have to be eating a crazy amount of protein compared to what your body utilizes for muscle repair
    thanku for the insght i didnt know that, repps
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by Atavis View Post
    Potentially fatigue and maybe increased muscle loss if the calorie deficit is high enough.
    fixed
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  12. #12
    Everyday=5/3/1+GPP+IFCTKD Atavis's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jmuniverse View Post
    fixed
    Not if protien intake is kept high. A PSMF, which is extreme in it's calorie deficiency, can keep lbm loss to 15% of total when done properly. So, not fixed since it was correct anyways. Sorry. ;p

    Although, if a bber were dumb enough to drop proteun way down, yeah increase lbm loss would be the result.
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  13. #13
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    You won't be a in a perfect fat-burning state of keto, because you would have to get most of your calories from protein. And i read in one of the keto articles in the sticky sections, that protein raises your insulin levels, not as much as carbohydrates but protein still has an effect on insulin. And the basic theory of keto Dr. Atkins diets is to get most of your calories from fats, because fat is the only nutrient that has zero effect on insulin levels, while the other 2 nutrients (carbohydrates and protein), both raise your insulin levels.

    So i think that if you want to do keto in the right way you will have to eat higher in fat, moderate in protein and real low in carbs.





    Originally Posted by alex2363 View Post
    What happens if you dont eat enough fats and eat little to no carbs, will u still be in keto?
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  14. #14
    Sors Inanis shadowwalker021's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KCW88 View Post
    Well a diet is still a diet, thus he still has to watch his calories. This comes down to the question of whether or not you think its worth adding 200+ calories for the sole purpose of increasing your fat ratio
    i didn't realize that the OP was trapped in a mechanical contraption that forces a preset ratio and amount of food into his mouth thru a plastic tube, and the only thing he is able to do is add things to the tube by pulling a string with his pinky finger.

    Originally Posted by KCW88 View Post
    and xdeerizx, your fat adapted if your body is burning fat to make up for your calorie deficit. You can tell if you're eating very low carbs and showing purple on ketostix
    i thought that just meant that you're under ketosis
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  15. #15
    Registered User MHSETRadTech's Avatar
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    I agree with tonybear. Your body needs a certain amount of proteins to maintain muscles mass but if you go over too much and aren't taking in enough fat you won't be using your fat for energy. You will instead use your protein and ive read in other stickies that it can turn your body into a cannibalistic state. Idk if it's true but I prefer to just stick to the diet as is.
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    Originally Posted by TonyBear View Post
    You won't be a in a perfect fat-burning state of keto, because you would have to get most of your calories from protein. And i read in one of the keto articles in the sticky sections, that protein raises your insulin levels, not as much as carbohydrates but protein still has an effect on insulin. And the basic theory of keto Dr. Atkins diets is to get most of your calories from fats, because fat is the only nutrient that has zero effect on insulin levels, while the other 2 nutrients (carbohydrates and protein), both raise your insulin levels.

    So i think that if you want to do keto in the right way you will have to eat higher in fat, moderate in protein and real low in carbs.
    Being in the state of Ketosis has literally ZERO to do with a high percentage of dietary fat intake, it has to do with the lack of available Carbs to be broken down into glucose for energy!!!!!!!!!!! The state of ketosis will occur from body fat. You are either in ketosis or you are not, you can fricken enter ketosis after a day of fasting, especially if your body is accustomed to it, as long as you are not taking in TOO much protein for your body then you will be in ketosis. also insulin really isnt that bad, especially if there is no glucose or fructose to shuttle into your body.

    Originally Posted by MHSETRadTech View Post
    I agree with tonybear. Your body needs a certain amount of proteins to maintain muscles mass but if you go over too much and aren't taking in enough fat you won't be using your fat for energy. You will instead use your protein and ive read in other stickies that it can turn your body into a cannibalistic state. Idk if it's true but I prefer to just stick to the diet as is.
    btw its catabolistic not cannibalistic

    "Cannibalism (from Caníbales, the Spanish name for the Carib people,[1] a West Indies tribe formerly well known for their practice of cannibalism),[2] is the act or practice of humans eating the flesh of other human beings. It is also called anthropophagy. A person who practises cannibalism is called a cannibal.

    While the expression "cannibalism" has origins in the act of humans eating other humans, it has extended into zoology to mean the act of any animal consuming members of its own type or kind, including the consumption of mates."
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    Originally Posted by zstanton View Post
    you do realize that keto is not exactly the percentage of calories from protein, it really depends on the amount of protein, if you take in 200g of protein (800 cals) and 50g of fat (450 cals) and 30g carbs (120 cals) total of 1370 cals your protein is over 60%, but if you are 200 lbs then you are using the majority of that protein and therefore you will be in ketosis because you are using ketones for energy, to leave the state of ketosis due to glucogensis you have to be eating a crazy amount of protein compared to what your body utilizes for muscle repair
    you do realize that under a caloric deficit the body extracts and converts stored proteins and fats into energy. regardless of what your dietary intake is, you will convert a set amount of energy from biomolecules. if he is eating a high amount of proteins then this will trigger gluconeogenesis as i think you tried to suggest, but what you failed to realize is that muscle-mass will also be converted to glucose via this pathway. if you eat a very high percentage of proteins then i believe you will lose a higher percentage of muscle-mass and you will be under ketosis less deeply than you would otherwise be if at all.
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    Originally Posted by alex2363 View Post
    What happens if you dont eat enough fats and eat little to no carbs, will u still be in keto?
    Of course, but you'll have absolutely no energy. Fat becomes your primary energy source when carbs are restricted. If you don't eat enough fat, you're relying on protein as the primary energy source. The conversion of amino acids to glucose & fatty acids is a very arduous and inefficient pathway.
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    Yeah and because of scientific facts state that in order to burn fat in an efficient way protein intake cannot be too high, because it would then raise insulin levels. I used to read articles in magazines on how Arnold Shwarzenegger, Franco Colombo, Mike Mentzer and other bodybuilders of the 1970s used to eat lots of fat, steaks and whole eggs.

    .

    Originally Posted by MikeK46 View Post
    Of course, but you'll have absolutely no energy. Fat becomes your primary energy source when carbs are restricted. If you don't eat enough fat, you're relying on protein as the primary energy source. The conversion of amino acids to glucose & fatty acids is a very arduous and inefficient pathway.
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    Originally Posted by shadowwalker021 View Post
    i didn't realize that the OP was trapped in a mechanical contraption that forces a preset ratio and amount of food into his mouth thru a plastic tube, and the only thing he is able to do is add things to the tube by pulling a string with his pinky finger.


    i thought that just meant that you're under ketosis
    Apparently you don't have to be in ketosis to be fat adapted and vice versa. I don't understand how your body can be fat adapted without being in ketosis outside of a few days. I understand once your fat adapted and do a carb up you essentially are still burning fat as energy and your carbs go straight to the muscles until they spill over to your liver. After a few days outside of ketosis how can you stay fat adapted?

    Originally Posted by shadowwalker021 View Post
    you do realize that under a caloric deficit the body extracts and converts stored proteins and fats into energy. regardless of what your dietary intake is, you will convert a set amount of energy from biomolecules. if he is eating a high amount of proteins then this will trigger gluconeogenesis as i think you tried to suggest, but what you failed to realize is that muscle-mass will also be converted to glucose via this pathway. if you eat a very high percentage of proteins then i believe you will lose a higher percentage of muscle-mass and you will be under ketosis less deeply than you would otherwise be if at all.
    I recall that a certain percentage of protein gets converted to glucose anyways, am I right on this or totally off. If so then shouldn't I be eating more then 1g/lbm of protein to compensate for this in order to save muscle?

    thx!
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    Originally Posted by xdeerizx View Post
    Apparently you don't have to be in ketosis to be fat adapted and vice versa. I don't understand how your body can be fat adapted without being in ketosis outside of a few days. I understand once your fat adapted and do a carb up you essentially are still burning fat as energy and your carbs go straight to the muscles until they spill over to your liver. After a few days outside of ketosis how can you stay fat adapted?

    I recall that a certain percentage of protein gets converted to glucose anyways, am I right on this or totally off. If so then shouldn't I be eating more then 1g/lbm of protein to compensate for this in order to save muscle?

    thx!
    i wasn't really asking about the fat-adaptation thing. he was wrong. what he said only means that you're under ketosis. fat-adaptation is when your entire body (specifically the brain and heart) relies completely on ketone bodies for fuel. this is why leptin activity decreases and brain fog/headaches occur under induction and then all of these symptoms suddenly go away in 2 weeks once you're fat-adapted.
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    Originally Posted by shadowwalker021 View Post
    i wasn't really asking about the fat-adaptation thing. he was wrong. what he said only means that you're under ketosis. fat-adaptation is when your entire body (specifically the brain and heart) relies completely on ketone bodies for fuel. this is why leptin activity decreases and brain fog/headaches occur under induction and then all of these symptoms suddenly go away in 2 weeks once you're fat-adapted.
    right, get that part but what about the being in one without the other part. If you can be fat adapted without being in ketosis then why even bother with ketosis? Not knocking it, I actually enjoy ketosis. Not sure if I am fat adapted buy my energy/focus is at all time high.
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    Originally Posted by xdeerizx View Post
    right, get that part but what about the being in one without the other part. If you can be fat adapted without being in ketosis then why even bother with ketosis? Not knocking it, I actually enjoy ketosis. Not sure if I am fat adapted buy my energy/focus is at all time high.
    wait, what? who said that...?

    edit: are you talking about when you carb up for a day after you have become fat-adapted? the carbohydrates you consume don't activate glycolysis (much) because they are filling up your empty glycogen stores. the reason you don't register under ketosis on your urinalysis strips is because the insulin spikes are triggering the storage of the free fatty acids floating in your blood stream back into adipose tissue during this time.
    Last edited by shadowwalker021; 03-23-2011 at 03:01 PM.
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    Sigh. Most of this above =

    The most protein sparing nutrient is protein...if you want to keep LBM, you eat more protein especially when you lower calories.
    "Arterial plaque is primarily composed of unsaturated fats particularly polyunsaturated ones." (Felton, C V, et al, Lancet, 1994, 344:1195)

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    Originally Posted by Atavis View Post
    Sigh. Most of this above = [IMGhttp://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa44/Woden87/1252819510048.jpg[/IMG]

    The most protein sparing nutrient is protein...if you want to keep LBM, you eat more protein especially when you lower calories.
    thanks for the clarification. brb going on a high-protein ketogenic diet under a caloric deficit in order to preserve muscle. sorry to make you face-palm brah.
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    Originally Posted by shadowwalker021 View Post
    thanks for the clarification. brb going on a high-protein ketogenic diet under a caloric deficit in order to preserve muscle. sorry to make you face-palm brah.


    This is the correct approach in a diet as listed in the OP, i.e. low fat and low carb intake. You will have to adjust protein intake up to preserve lbm and the daily intake might be as high as 2gr / lb lbm. It will be a dreadful way to live though and definitely not sustainable in any long term sense.
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    I read this whole thread and I imagined every single one of you guys talking like either The Comic Book Guy or Professor Frink from the Simpsons...
    The trick is to keep breathing...

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    Originally Posted by jayemadd View Post
    I read this whole thread and I imagined every single one of you guys talking like either The Comic Book Guy or Professor Frink from the Simpsons...
    lol how flattering.

    there's definitely some very strong broscience going on up in here. hopefully it's not coming from me :O
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    Only a little. m' haiii!
    "Arterial plaque is primarily composed of unsaturated fats particularly polyunsaturated ones." (Felton, C V, et al, Lancet, 1994, 344:1195)

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    Originally Posted by Atavis View Post
    Only a little.
    darn it! i try *shrugs*
    Originally Posted by Atavis View Post
    m' haiii!
    why hello
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