Help with elimination diet?

[SpunkySpirit]

I haven’t posted in a while, and though I’ve faced more challenges than I would have liked, I haven’t quit either.

Recently I’ve had some relapse [gastrointestinal] with constant flares. Not bad enough to hospitalize me, but enough to severely impact my life and training. I am working with a new specialist, but it’s a long and slow road to finding a fix, and I am determined to do everything I can to find lifestyle management so I am less helpless to GI attacks.

One thing I have been encouraged to do is an elimination and retesting with my diet so I can figure out what foods work best for my digestive management, as well as what is safe for me to eat during a flare.
I am supposed to start with the safest foods possible and eat only that, then challenge one thing every other day.

I am having trouble with the very start of this because when I eat things I thought worked I am still at a point where nothing is really working. I am getting so, so frustrated with the ongoing feeling that I can’t eat anything.

I have reached a point of desperation to function and I am so determined to do this and figure it out, I just need to figure out where to start.
My “safe” foods are typically the plain proteins and fats [nuts, eggs, even beans if they are plain and not spiced up], and cooked vegetables normally help keep things moving. I don’t do well with most dairy, but cottage cheese and Lactaid milk have *usually* worked [right now it seems like nothing works]. Yogurt has been on/off.
I can’t seem to make any sense of starches. I definitely have a problem with sugars, whole wheat is sometimes okay sometimes not, and rice-which I thought was safest-hasn’t worked for me yet.

Should I start out eating only the protein, fats, and Lactaid milk? Or will it throw me off to have no carb source?

I know this isn’t a body building topic per say, but I got some help in making my diet better for both my athletics and my health in the past, so I thought I’d try and see if any of you smart folks have any wisdom or experience to share in this area.

[Boira]

Have you been tested for starch intolerance? If the results come back as positive that means avoiding table sugar in all forms and foods containing sucrose and maltose.
That happens in individuals with deficiency of the sucrase-i****ltase enzyme. In the hypothetical case you suffered from starch intolerance, there're oral enzyme replacements available for sucrose digestion.
Needless to say, all this must be studied, managed and prescribed by a doctor.

Ask your doctor about the different food intolerance tests you can take (if you haven't done it yet). That will save you a lot of pain and time, instead of the trial & error approach.

If for whatever reason you can't take the tests, keep doing as you were: start with a basic diet containing the foods you know are completely safe at the moment. Then add gradually one new food at the time, and wait for some days to see if there's a reaction.
Don't hurry the process, because if you add more than one food, or you try one new item everyday it's more difficult (or impossible) to determine which one caused the intolerance.
Write lists with the foods that are safe, the ones that you can't eat and the ones 'moderately safe'. For the latter category, write down too the conditions in which those foods were taken and how did you react to them.

I know it's long, boring and exasperating, but you really need to have the patience to do that slowly.

Good luck!

[freebirdmac]

I think you're starting off with the wrong foods. But, no matter what you start off with if your body is already maxed out it can seem to react to everything. It takes awhile to detox.

Here are the most hypoallergenic, gastro friendly foods:
chicken, turkey, lamb, sweet potatoes, potatoes, squash, olive oil, and quinoa. Fruits are tough due to what is used on the exterior and in the water. Fuji apples are a good pick. You must choose fresh, no additives, and wash well. No canned or frozen at this point.

It is a very spartan, boring diet and it could take as long as 60 days to really realize relief (hope not!!).

You also have to look at otc meds, prescription meds, vitamins, gum, mints, etc as the inert ingredients can get you. Even external sources of sensitivities can be absorbed by the skin and have a systemic effect. That means lotions, soaps, cleansers, makeup, etc.

I sympathize. I knew what I had to avoid but had an extremely tough time getting rid of hidden sources. It's a miserable time that you think will never end. But it will

[freebirdmac]

Oh, and you don't challenge yourself as you described. Reactions can be delayed as much as 24 hours. The way you do it is first, get yourself feeling good for a couple of weeks. Then introduce 1 food. If after two weeks you still feel good, then introduce another. The two week time frame allows you to accumulate enough reactive substances from the new food. You could be fine during week one, then totally crappy on week two.

You have to go slow and be methodical.

[andrerox80]

before even saying anything else, have you been tested for food allergies? of course a lactose breath test and celiacs, but also the skin test? i had it done for gi issues (ended up not having any food allergies or intolerances, though. but before i saw the allergist, i started doing an elimination diet too, starting w/ the most common things), and i remember finding it cool that she had tests for everything i ate except for pumpkin and curry powder (or maybe it was cayenne pepper. either way...). but you should definitely start w/ a gastroenterologist and allergist, if you haven't already.

[freebirdmac]

before even saying anything else, have you been tested for food allergies? of course a lactose breath test and celiacs, but also the skin test? i had it done for gi issues (ended up not having any food allergies or intolerances, though. but before i saw the allergist, i started doing an elimination diet too, starting w/ the most common things), and i remember finding it cool that she had tests for everything i ate except for pumpkin and curry powder (or maybe it was cayenne pepper. either way...). but you should definitely start w/ a gastroenterologist and allergist, if you haven't already.

Unfortunately, there are no reliable tests for intolerances. I wish there were! ALCAT and other similar testing have not held up under clinical trials.

[SpunkySpirit]

Thank you all for taking the time to post such helpful responses.

I wanted to wait and respond better after I had some time to digest the information and sort out my thoughts, but thought it would be important to let you all know my status in terms of testing-
To be honest, that’s why I’m so determined to do this. I had really, really hoped I could at least get the answer to know what to do by a test panel for allegies and intolerances. Even for the basics, like Fructose Malabsorption. However, my GI specialist wants nothing to do with that. She says the intolerances are only treating a symptom and a waste of time. I actually pressed her at my last meeting, saying of course I still want to continue dealing with the IBD stuff, but she won’t even go there.

This is why I’m realizing I’m “on my own” here. My normal [not the gastroenterologist, who they send me to for any testing] doctors have told me that while there is no easy diet that works for everyone and that is why I should do the elimination testing.

As for the foods I threw out [nuts, protein, etc.], I know they are unusual, and that is part of why I balk at the idea. In my mind, a good base would be something like rice and fish. However, I seem to have the most trouble with starches and have had my best periods of digestion after eating things like trail mix.

Right now my “gut feeling” [under all the symptomatic chaos!] is to either
1. Use the FODMAPS approach in sort of a backwards elimination: thoroughly remove fructose, then wheat, then beans and dairy, and if that doesn’t work then all starches.

2. Start with the bare bones: all meat, oil, nuts/or just pistachios, maybe some cooked veg
*That was using what has most reliably worked. I am contemplating what threebirdmac suggested, with the hypoallergenic meats and starches, but still wonder if I’m having problems with starches altogether?

Again, thanks again for the help and keep the suggestions coming. I really appreciate the detailed help since my instructions have been so vague, and I’ve been rather blown off in terms of testing for the food tolerance aspect.

[freebirdmac]

Heh. I had my own run-in with a gastro last week. I was pissed off most of the week I swear they are worthless if you don't fit the mold. Allergists are just as bad. With intolerances you gotta find them yourself.

My vote is to start clean, feel better, then add foods. Go with your instincts and choose a few foods you think you are ok with. If you don't feel better into the second week, then you'll have to make some substitutions.

Hope you have some fat to lose. It's tough to do this and not lose weight.

[SpunkySpirit]

Heh. I had my own run-in with a gastro last week. I was pissed off most of the week I swear they are worthless if you don't fit the mold. Allergists are just as bad. With intolerances you gotta find them yourself.

My vote is to start clean, feel better, then add foods. Go with your instincts and choose a few foods you think you are ok with. If you don't feel better into the second week, then you'll have to make some substitutions.

Hope you have some fat to lose. It's tough to do this and not lose weight.

Yes, finally getting to the “specialist” was probably the biggest let down of the whole medical process for me. I didn’t expect a simple fix, but my experience there was a total turn off. She seemed to belittle my problems and be closed of f to the idea of testing possibilities—which was exactly why I had been sent to her in the first place. My GP has been so much more interactive, but isn’t the one who can run the tests beyond what she does to monitor my base condition. Plus, both her and a couple other docs I’ve seen push me to “experiment” with my diet. Which is what I’ve done over the last couple years, leaving me to realize it’s a lot more complicated than it seems at first take!

So far this week I’ve removed all the key suspects-sugars, wheat, lactose.
Then last night I created a list of the foods I tend to think of as "safe" and decided to start there.
My goal is to continue this for about a week and remove anything else I find questionable. The problem I have with being too restrictive is that lack of variety/balance can leave me reacting to foods that might normally work. The nuts, for example, are one of my “safe” foods- but at one time I was eating them for the majority of my diet and they started causing problems. I also feel like some of the safer starches work unless I over eat them—rice, for example: I have done well with rice cakes paired with protein, but once on a most basic elimination I had a horrible time with pots of rice itself.



….I’m hoping I can establish a safe “mix” to build on. Helps my sanity too, and also my hunger. If it weren't for my appetite I can see how easily I could lose weight.
But I'm used to eatin ga lot, and feel like I get hungrier more when I can't eat whatever is easy or tasty. To be honest, a couple days below 3000 and I have been famished all day. I don’t know why I have to eat so much, but I’m keeping tabs on my calories and plan to adjust accordingly seeing what my weight does over the next week or so.

Thank you again for your helpful responses and please, continue to share any insight you might have. Sounds like you are a few steps ahead of me on this one!

p.s. I'm going to hopefully post more details in the journal I started last night. Feel free to add input if you're bored! ;-)

[freebirdmac]

The "reacting to foods you normally eat" means one of two things; either they too are a problem or you're so sensitive you'll react to everything. If a food is truly safe, not eating it for awhile will not turn it into a bad food.

I gave up gluten 3.5 years ago. At the end of last summer I went on vacation and decided to take a loaf of Panera Bread's country loaf with me (just flour, water, and salt). I thought I had done ok with it in the past, and didn't want to spend another week at the beach eating cold chicken and cold veggies for lunch. I wanted some resemblance of a sandwich. Even a sunflower butter sandwich. I did great with it! Bought some more when I got home. It was going to help me bulk Well, after about a month I realized I was having problems. It just slowly built up until my body's gluten bucket was full. This is what can happen with some foods. You can have them for x number of days, then bam! It means you had a problem with those foods all along.

Some foods like rice and shelled nuts can be cross contaminated by other substances.

I know this is incredibly frustrating. But honestly you have to stay away from any food that has bothered you. For more than a week.

[SpunkySpirit]

The "reacting to foods you normally eat" means one of two things; either they too are a problem or you're so sensitive you'll react to everything. If a food is truly safe, not eating it for awhile will not turn it into a bad food.

I gave up gluten 3.5 years ago. At the end of last summer I went on vacation and decided to take a loaf of Panera Bread's country loaf with me (just flour, water, and salt). I thought I had done ok with it in the past, and didn't want to spend another week at the beach eating cold chicken and cold veggies for lunch. I wanted some resemblance of a sandwich. Even a sunflower butter sandwich. I did great with it! Bought some more when I got home. It was going to help me bulk Well, after about a month I realized I was having problems. It just slowly built up until my body's gluten bucket was full. This is what can happen with some foods. You can have them for x number of days, then bam! It means you had a problem with those foods all along.

Some foods like rice and shelled nuts can be cross contaminated by other substances.

I know this is incredibly frustrating. But honestly you have to stay away from any food that has bothered you. For more than a week.

Wow- Great insight.
You have me wondering if what I thought was "creating a reaction" to safe foods is ACTUALLY me identifying problem foods that went under the radar when in small doses.

I agree with your last statement, the dilemma is finding what foods have bothered me.
ex:
-Pistachios, lactaid, and cottage cheese have almost NEVER bothered me. But ONCE I had a flare after eating pistachios. Same with Lactaid. Cottage cheese is just neutral.
-Mixed nuts: I have often felt GOOD after eating nut varieties. I have also had almonds at least leave me with problems. But not always, so it's hard for me to rule out something that makes me feel good
-Meat: I was my best when on a meat/protein based diet, but I was also very backed up and gassy. As in, I didn't react to it, but it didn't seem to be "working."
-Beans: another tricky one. Plain, they usually work really well and help me digest smoothly and comfortably. But I've also had flares after eating beans.
-Rice: similar story with the rice cakes. Rice cakes + cottage cheese or meat have been so nice to my gut so often that I gravitate towards including these. But I know rice as a whole, and sometimes even the cakes, doesn't always work.

My "feel good" list right now is this:
lactaid, cottage cheese, pistachios, eggs, poultry, oil, peanuts, plain beans, rice, oats, and for some odd reason those bars.

Do you think my idea to stick to these unless any are not working is a bad one?
What would you recommend I "stick to?"

[freebirdmac]

Wow- Great insight.
You have me wondering if what I thought was "creating a reaction" to safe foods is ACTUALLY me identifying problem foods that went under the radar when in small doses.

I agree with your last statement, the dilemma is finding what foods have bothered me.
ex:
-Pistachios, lactaid, and cottage cheese have almost NEVER bothered me. But ONCE I had a flare after eating pistachios. Same with Lactaid. Cottage cheese is just neutral.
-Mixed nuts: I have often felt GOOD after eating nut varieties. I have also had almonds at least leave me with problems. But not always, so it's hard for me to rule out something that makes me feel good
-Meat: I was my best when on a meat/protein based diet, but I was also very backed up and gassy. As in, I didn't react to it, but it didn't seem to be "working."
-Beans: another tricky one. Plain, they usually work really well and help me digest smoothly and comfortably. But I've also had flares after eating beans.
-Rice: similar story with the rice cakes. Rice cakes + cottage cheese or meat have been so nice to my gut so often that I gravitate towards including these. But I know rice as a whole, and sometimes even the cakes, doesn't always work.

My "feel good" list right now is this:
lactaid, cottage cheese, pistachios, eggs, poultry, peanuts, plain beans, rice, oats, and for some odd reason those bars.

Do you think my idea to stick to these unless any are not working is a bad one?
What would you recommend I "stick to?"

Yep. You were probably finding your triggers without realizing it.

What you have to watch out for on foods that have ever bothered you is how frequently you were eating them when they bothered you and the ingredients. Even if you buy the same brand, same product, they can change ingredients. It could be an ingredient(s) in say lactaid (full of inert ingredients) or on the pistachios for example. Nuts like pistachios and shelled nuts can be dusted with a corn like substance for example to keep moisture down. This is where food gets really complicated. The listed ingredients and hidden ingredients may be a problem and not the food itself.

I'd stay away from any processed food or any shelled nut. If you are ok with evoo, use it. It'll help with the protein back up issues. Oil is a true lubricant Buy organic, salt free, single ingredient foods. Instead of canned beans buy dried beans (soak overnight). With meats, only buy packages that say minimally processed. Skip the rice cakes, milk, lactaid, and cottage cheese for now. I'd skip all cheeses for now too. Gluten and milk protein are two huge causes for gastro problems.

I know this is harsh, but you're left with meat, oatmeal, and beans out of your list. If you can add evoo, potatoes, sweet potatoes, and apple it should make the diet a bit less painful.

Here's a good write up http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=diet&dbid=7. I do disagree with the rice and even pears based on my own experience. And I'd stick to fuji apples.

[recovering]

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=diet&dbid=7

Thanks for that link, it was a great read. And thanks for explaining the "shelled nuts" thing. I've found that peanuts in the shell sometime make me feel not so hot and I've never understood it because I eat peanuts and pb all the time, so I've always thought it was just something else.

[SpunkySpirit]

I'd stay away from any processed food or any shelled nut. If you are ok with evoo, use it. It'll help with the protein back up issues. Oil is a true lubricant Buy organic, salt free, single ingredient foods. Instead of canned beans buy dried beans (soak overnight). With meats, only buy packages that say minimally processed. Skip the rice cakes, milk, lactaid, and cottage cheese for now. I'd skip all cheeses for now too. Gluten and milk protein are two huge causes for gastro problems.

I know this is harsh, but you're left with meat, oatmeal, and beans out of your list. If you can add evoo, potatoes, sweet potatoes, and apple it should make the diet a bit less painful.

Here's a good write up http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=diet&dbid=7. I do disagree with the rice and even pears based on my own experience. And I'd stick to fuji apples.

What you are saying makes complete sense, and this type of diet is the path I have gone down before in desperate attempts to eliminate all possible triggers.

The thing that has always thrown me off, and why I didn't even start there [with the traditional "safe" foods] this time is because the feelings based on my experience tend to overcome me when I'm not feeling as good eating the safer foods.

For example, eliminating dairy is one of the main things I have done in the past. But Lactaid was my "milk medicine" discovery back when my symptoms first started to hamper daily function. I can often drink lactaid, or coffee + lactaid to calm down my stomach when it's gone crazy. I even use it as quick fix to settle after a meal or in order to go out. If I don' thave my coffee + lactaid first thing in the morning, I can never seem to get my day going outside the bathroom. I know this from a few elimination diets that eliminated all dairy and/or caffeine!
I also noticed a big difference when switching to rice or almond milk--stirred up my gut rather than settled it.

I am less hooked on cottage cheese, but it is always hard for me to cut out foods that I can usually rely on when so much else doesn't seem to work.

I know I still have way to much "misc" confusing things up in my diet right now, and I'd really really like for something thorough and as sensible as you suggest to work for me.

Do you think it would be possible to eat a "clean" diet of meat, beans, oats, oil, as well as the lactaid and cottage cheese?
I promise I am not trying to be difficult or noncompliant. My reason for asking is NOT because I don't want to be limited [I want to be thorough and figure this out!] but because I feel that cutting all dairy per rule has held me back because it cut out safe foods for me.

-I could give potatoes an other try. I haven't had them much, and when I have they were always with so much else I wouldn't know if they worked or not.
-What do you think of yogurt? That's another dairy product that has worked, and I'm told it could actually HELP because of the enzymes.
-were you saying peanuts are the exception to keeping nuts out? I know the peanut/pistachios have been the reliable ones for me. Or is it best to keep them out altogether?
-Will try oats tomorrow. If they don't work [I've had mixed experiences], I'll try some steelcut as I had some better experience with those a long time ago.
-Apples: fruit has been pretty iffy for me, except dried in trail mix. Maybe some veg?

[freebirdmac]

It'd sure be great if you could find a nutritionist experienced in IBD diets.

The milk thing, is it calming the acid in your stomach? Gut upsets can cause an increase in acid, and milk helps. But then milk can turn around and upset the gut after settling the acid problem.

You can approach this a couple of ways. Diet for IBD, or diet for IBD and food intolerances. I don't know about IBD, but with food intolerances one can actually crave the food they're sensitive to. Fun huh?

Here are a couple of suggestions:
LOFFLEX diet http://www.sixpartswater.org/knowled...%27s%20disease

Specific carb diet http://altmedicine.about.com/od/popu...cific_carb.htm
(hopefully you can figure this one out without buying the book)

The SC diet can easily lend itself to IBD/food intolerances as you can't eat processed food initially.

[SpunkySpirit]

I'm sorry for neglecting this thread for a bit. I needed to sort out where I'm going with this...

First off, thanks again for working so patiently with me, as well as all the help and useful information. I had a look at those sites [and have given some though at SCD in the past], but my gut feeling is still that sticking to a "protocol" diet strays me from what works for me. There are parts to the SCD, FODMAPS, etc. approaches that I feel ring true with my symptoms, but something is always slightly off with the safe/unsafe mix given. I am hoping that if I can thoroughly build from the safest items personal to me, I can find just what version of these techniques is useful in stabalizing or maintaining function with me.

You also asked if I am primarily looking for food intoleranes or a method to cope with IBD. Both, I suppose- in essence I want to know what foods work: what is safest, what is okay in general, and what triggers IBD attacks or is hard on a damaged system. Whether these are intolernces or not doesn't seem to matter. The Dr. suggested that "intolerances" are symptoms anyways. To me [since I have to live with the symptoms!] that means I want to find what intolerances are, regardless of why they are.

So status update-
First, confession: I really turned the corner after the key culprits I removed included wheat and lactose. I still felt iffy/neutral on dairy and nuts, but overall was doing so much better that I wasn' teven bloating or backed up by Wed. Thursday I started thinking maybe the fix was simple and didn't require such strict elimination of iffy items...maybe i was just needing non-wheat based, low sugar, etc. as opposed to a strict restriction.
WRONG!! What I would give to take back yesterday...except that it is a lesson learned.
The teeniest *containing wheat* ingredient sent me spiralling down and I have yet to restabalize. :-(

I've gone back to strict gluten free today, and still have many iffy items, but I'm getting tired of trying to evaluate them within a mix. I feel I'm at the point where I've pulled out the major culprits, but the only way I can identify the remaining triggers is if I'm stable with possible triggers out of my system. Otherwise I can't tell if I'm at unrest because I just ate pistachios or if it's the yogurt not sitting well from earlier. Or sort out whether it's the rice or the avocado tha tdidn't quite work at lunch. Yes, I'm getting closer to knowin gwhat works, but it's aggravating and confusing.

I wanted to do something more thorough a long time ago, but felt lost as to where to start--what IS safe? After this week, plus all the info you've given, I think I know where to start. And more than ever, I just want to really know--so corn seemed okay, I didn't flare after processed lunch meat, cottage cheese is neutral--but I want REAL function + knowing what's holding me back.

Here's what I'm thinking:
HOLD-sugars, gluten, grains [except oats], corn, dairy [except lactaid], iffy nuts
+anything else that doesn't work
EAT-poultry and fish [plain], beans [plain], evoo, avocado, potatoes, cooked veg, oats, soy, peanuts/pistachios, lactaid
*The only "excepts" I have are the oats and lactose because those didn't just not cause a flare, the made me feel better. Do you think that kind of "except" is ok? I am trying to remove the old "excepts" that were just questionable [cheeses for instance].

I will continue to remove any that I react to. I will wait to try things that should be okay until I've had enough time to note a differnce, plus had a chance to evaluate what might work with the culprits fully out of my system [I read that one intolerance can cause damage that causes other intolerances--so after the real one heals you might be able to handle more foods].

Do you think I'm getting somewhere? Does that sound like a safe base?

[SpunkySpirit]

[QUOTE=freebirdmac;649658433]The milk thing, is it calming the acid in your stomach? Gut upsets can cause an increase in acid, and milk helps. But then milk can turn around and upset the gut after settling the acid problem.
QUOTE]

I have no idea. I just know I'm gravtated towards it because it actually calms me when I'm spasming or have stomach upset. Coffee [with the Lactaid] does the same. So I typically do the coffee +L early on, then Lactaid later, after meals to calm things down or before I have to go out and function on the job and whatnot.

In eliminations of coffee and/or all milk products, I have really struggled with finding any way to even temporarily stabalize.

It is so contradictory to me, but it works, so I keep doing it. :-/

[slgalberth]

I haven’t posted in a while, and though I’ve faced more challenges than I would have liked, I haven’t quit either.

Recently I’ve had some relapse [gastrointestinal] with constant flares. Not bad enough to hospitalize me, but enough to severely impact my life and training. I am working with a new specialist, but it’s a long and slow road to finding a fix, and I am determined to do everything I can to find lifestyle management so I am less helpless to GI attacks.

One thing I have been encouraged to do is an elimination and retesting with my diet so I can figure out what foods work best for my digestive management, as well as what is safe for me to eat during a flare.
I am supposed to start with the safest foods possible and eat only that, then challenge one thing every other day.

I am having trouble with the very start of this because when I eat things I thought worked I am still at a point where nothing is really working. I am getting so, so frustrated with the ongoing feeling that I can’t eat anything.

I have reached a point of desperation to function and I am so determined to do this and figure it out, I just need to figure out where to start.
My “safe” foods are typically the plain proteins and fats [nuts, eggs, even beans if they are plain and not spiced up], and cooked vegetables normally help keep things moving. I don’t do well with most dairy, but cottage cheese and Lactaid milk have *usually* worked [right now it seems like nothing works]. Yogurt has been on/off.
I can’t seem to make any sense of starches. I definitely have a problem with sugars, whole wheat is sometimes okay sometimes not, and rice-which I thought was safest-hasn’t worked for me yet.

Should I start out eating only the protein, fats, and Lactaid milk? Or will it throw me off to have no carb source?

I know this isn’t a body building topic per say, but I got some help in making my diet better for both my athletics and my health in the past, so I thought I’d try and see if any of you smart folks have any wisdom or experience to share in this area.

Do you have IBD?

[freebirdmac]

You're using your head and homing in on the answers. Keep doing what you're doing by going on instinct. Do not get discouraged by upsets that seem to come out of the blue. IBD can be that way. If you're consistent in your approach you'll get it sorted out. It probably won't be quick. So have patience. This is an extremely difficult task. I'm lucky that I only have allergy/intolerances to worry about and not unpredictable IBD. Keep a food and medicine diary with comments about how you feel. It can be really helpful with delayed reactions.

[SpunkySpirit]

Yes, I am dealing with IBD. I have been in remission for over a year and am now learning to manage a life I thankfully finally have. I am told that diet is a huge part of that since my system is malfunctioning, that intolerances are "symptoms"...but also that it's "individual" and I have to "experiment." Vague anyone?

Freebirdmac has been more helpful than any doctor for what I can do about it.
Not only does she have so much more knowledge and experience about food-gut issues, but she is doing an amazing job of working with "me" as I relay my personal thoughts, quirks, and "gut feelings."

Thank you freebirdmac!

As for your last post, thank you also for the encouragement. I know i get set back the most when I feel like I went wrong. As you said, the flares "out of no where" are also discouraging. The times I am stable and eating "anything" give me false hope. Last summer I truly thought this was all behind me.

I realized in this last relapse that I just want to know. There may be some things that are okay when I am stable, but I want to know what to fall back on in case of a flare. Also what I truly cannot tolerate and could be triggering the chronic symptoms that I have yet to end. The kind of function I had earlier this week made me wonder if being long term gluten free could help this. That was the only real difference I'd added after a couple weeks just watching lactose and sugar...

I am glad you reminded me to keep on to get there. I feel like I made "wrong" choices, but sometimes that's the only way to know. I worry that I should have the potatoes or oats, but I also worry that I could mess up without any real carb sources. The only way to find out is to keep going. Right now, this is the safest mix I can apply- and if something is not working, I should be able to identify it as I zone in.

Ok ok, that was more of a pep talk for myself. Because I do feel a bit overwhelmed, but at hte same time with that sign of hope--so determined to figure it out.

Thanks again for your support and help.

By the way, I don't know if you've looked at my journal at all but I got back in the weight room yesterday! Hoping to build to a real Bulk by this summer. :-)

[freebirdmac]

Yay for being back in the gym! That would be awesome if you could get to the point where you could bulk this summer. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

[slgalberth]

Yes, I am dealing with IBD. I have been in remission for over a year and am now learning to manage a life I thankfully finally have. I am told that diet is a huge part of that since my system is malfunctioning, that intolerances are "symptoms"...but also that it's "individual" and I have to "experiment." Vague anyone?

Freebirdmac has been more helpful than any doctor for what I can do about it.
Not only does she have so much more knowledge and experience about food-gut issues, but she is doing an amazing job of working with "me" as I relay my personal thoughts, quirks, and "gut feelings."

Thank you freebirdmac!

As for your last post, thank you also for the encouragement. I know i get set back the most when I feel like I went wrong. As you said, the flares "out of no where" are also discouraging. The times I am stable and eating "anything" give me false hope. Last summer I truly thought this was all behind me.

I realized in this last relapse that I just want to know. There may be some things that are okay when I am stable, but I want to know what to fall back on in case of a flare. Also what I truly cannot tolerate and could be triggering the chronic symptoms that I have yet to end. The kind of function I had earlier this week made me wonder if being long term gluten free could help this. That was the only real difference I'd added after a couple weeks just watching lactose and sugar...

I am glad you reminded me to keep on to get there. I feel like I made "wrong" choices, but sometimes that's the only way to know. I worry that I should have the potatoes or oats, but I also worry that I could mess up without any real carb sources. The only way to find out is to keep going. Right now, this is the safest mix I can apply- and if something is not working, I should be able to identify it as I zone in.

Ok ok, that was more of a pep talk for myself. Because I do feel a bit overwhelmed, but at hte same time with that sign of hope--so determined to figure it out.

Thanks again for your support and help.

By the way, I don't know if you've looked at my journal at all but I got back in the weight room yesterday! Hoping to build to a real Bulk by this summer. :-)

I can definitely relate to how you feel I have had Crohn's Disease for 15 years and it can be so difficult to deal with. I try to control mine mostly through diet and supplements and even now it is very frustrating because Crohn's can be so unpredictable on what you can eat. If you ever need to talk let me know

[xraychick]

i know a lot of people have posted here already. but i used to suffer from very bad IBS, until i became a vegetarian and it has cleared up completely. I do eat egg whites and dairy in the form of cheese and greek yogurt.

also i have a friend who cut out gluten and her bowel issues cleared up too. i think its called celiac disease when people cant eat gluten.

[SpunkySpirit]

It's been a rough week, and yet, I am on my way. How do I know this? Because I am keeping on. I've realized something: I set my self back the most when in quest of the "perfect starting point." Because of all the complicated factors at play [type, amount, mix, or macronutrient breakdown], it's not a simple matter, safest foods or constructed plan, that I can start clean and crisp and fix everything neatly and thoroughly.

Looking over the past month I "feel" like I failed because I haven't even got a solid working base. But you know what? I had to do what I did each day to learn. I had to learn that if I'm eating gobs of beans as one of 3 items, they are no longer one of three things that work perfectl when I was evaluatig in a larger mix.

I don't have all the answers, I still haven't even got a base with real functionl, but i know so much more than I did a few weeks ago. And I wouldn't know any of it had I just said "nevermind" when something I thought would work didn't.

I've realized that keeping on is the key to finding my base as much as it is building from there.



I know:

-Key culprits: There was a clear turnaround when I added wheat/gluten to the sugars and lactose I had previously eliminated. It was also the thing that changed when I relapsed.

-Trends: I have logged a lot of days in to livestrong.com with the idea that once I figure out what I can eat, I am going to create objectives about the nutrition aspect for bodybuilding. But I realized my macros may have a factor in the digestion aspects. The days that I had where I felt incredible--digestion that I hadn't had in months, plus energy and sleep like I can't even remember, followed almost the exact same macro pattern with 200g carb, 250g protein, and over 100g fat. Things tended to regress as my carbs climbed, but the complete opposite didn't work out so well either- the days I stuk to all protein and fat [200g+ each], I struggled as well.

I also face confusion because when I isolate my diet to safe foods, even foods I ate those days, it doesn't work as well.

For instance, the night before the big turnaround I ate a whole box of those darn high protein cereal bars--they make me feel good--that outweighed the logic of what is "safe".

Historically these have been not only reliably safe, but the only food I have repeatedly stabalized on. They are the only food item [thing I can put in other than coffee/Lactaid] that is not only "safe" but actually works [causes improvement].

They contain peanuts, oats, rice, and sucralose. Each ingredient is on/off with working/problems--none work as well as the bars themselves, and all have caused a negative reaction.

Even more confusing is that one variety of these bars contains barley malt-a gluten ingredient. Yet I know getting wheat out of my diet has been a key to ending the worst of my symptoms a number of times over the years.

But I've also had my tastes of real function when I have wheat or at least gluten included. The one real BM I can remember over the last month--complete, clean, easy, and comfortable--followed a breakfast of kashi cereal with nondairy milk, cottage cheese, and one of those bars.

The rational approach is to eliminate gluten for a time and see if it makes a difference when I add it back in.

But doing that makes me eliminate things that work. It keeps me from replaying a meal such as the kashi/cottage cheese that has worked.



I'm thinking of a new way to approach this: starting with a protein base, and then use the "culprit removal" method.

-If the protein base is the core of it, I could eliminate the confusion of rice working/not working [maybe it's not the rice, it's the starch amount]

-If there are problem foods, I can identify them within that base so I know it's the food that's causing the reaction.

-If I feel including wheat products, as they fit in the <portion [vs. a standard wheat diet], cause regression, I could first pull wheat, then full gluten


My original plan was to eat only foods I was sure was safe [didn't question any of the ingredients, etc.] and remove all culprit suspects + any additional culprits found while eating "safe" foods.


This seems most thorough to me, but just doesn't seem to click as I feel like I'm not eating the food that works best and am also possible messing up the overall diet balance [macros] that seem to be linked with my best function.


I'm considering changing the process a bit, using the high protein base, no criteria about the "safe" foods I start with, and working from there:

1. Powerfood Base: daily intake based in protein, then fats, with carb foods as side

2. Fill : Make every choice something that I "feel" works [no rule about what or why]

3. Identify culprits within powerfood base that cause negative reaction [all based on what I react to only vs. problem group, etc.]



Is this as off as it sounds? Am I on to something or just missing something?

I don't want to make any changes that hinder progress if I truly am being more thorough with the original gameplan.

[freebirdmac]

Try anything. If you feel this will do what you need then try it. You have 2 problems here. An unpredictable disease that can get you no matter what you eat, and triggers that may or may not be intolerances that may or may not trigger an unpredictable disease. In other words you're screwed from the start

My personal approach is to start with very few foods, maybe only 3. No processed food. And slowly add 1 item every two weeks after a 2 week period of feeling good. Or at least knowing flares are totally unrelated to diet. It's extremely tough. Macros and calorie counts go out the window. Goals other than figuring out a safe diet are out the window. But that's me. And I lost 20 pounds in 2-3 months detoxing and figuring out my safe diet. I literally thought I would starve to death.

[SpunkySpirit]

My personal approach is to start with very few foods, maybe only 3. No processed food. And slowly add 1 item every two weeks after a 2 week period of feeling good. Or at least knowing flares are totally unrelated to diet. It's extremely tough. Macros and calorie counts go out the window. Goals other than figuring out a safe diet are out the window. But that's me. And I lost 20 pounds in 2-3 months detoxing and figuring out my safe diet. I literally thought I would starve to death.

This is what I have REALLY wanted to do from the start--or, from the point of me saying "ok, I have GOT to figure this out, thorough and complete."

My problem is that when I eat only 3 foods, those foods start causing problems--even ones that have always worked in the past.

What would you suggest to do for that sort of situation?

[freebirdmac]

This is what I have REALLY wanted to do from the start--or, from the point of me saying "ok, I have GOT to figure this out, thorough and complete."

My problem is that when I eat only 3 foods, those foods start causing problems--even ones that have always worked in the past.

What would you suggest to do for that sort of situation?

How do you know those 3 foods caused a problem? Delayed reactions, even days, is not uncommon. Which foods did you choose? How long did you try these foods? I'd imagine and drastic change in diet can cause flares no matter what you eat.

[SpunkySpirit]

How do you know those 3 foods caused a problem? Delayed reactions, even days, is not uncommon. Which foods did you choose? How long did you try these foods? I'd imagine and drastic change in diet can cause flares no matter what you eat.

Usually it's that I'll pick the foods within the ones I feel safe that actually "work." After a day or two, they stop working and I start having problems again, eating only the foods that had NOT caused problems in the past.

For example, once I'd eliminated lactose, wheat, and most sugars I kept track of what I was eating and whether they were "working" "neutral" or "iffy." Foods like meat were neutral-didn't feel good after eating them, but no problems either. I found that every time I ate beans I worked. Hence, beans were one of the three foods I tried to stick to. Sure enough, by day 2 I was having symptoms after eating the beans. Overall I wasn't worse, but the one thing that had worked was now not working, so not only was I not finding my base, I was losing the function I had found when eating beans within a larger variety of things.
I've had the same thing happen with rice, nuts, yogurt, quinoa... [not all at the same time, in different trials of 3 items that were 100% working until I ate only them]

[freebirdmac]

Ok, one of the complications with beans and other similar foods is fiber content. Eating beans every day even if you don't have gastro issues can result in gastro issues. It can take a week or so for your body to adjust. With yogurt you can get a buildup of milk protein as well as lactose that can cause gastro issues. Plus you have all the sugar and inert ingredients to deal with. Rice and quinoa should be ok for both of us, but I think most of what we buy is cross contaminated with other grains. I react to both, especially rice when I should not have a problem with either one. Nuts are always dicey as a safe food for many reasons.

Maybe you can try alternating foods so that you aren't eating the same thing every day but still limit your selections. Like Day 1 eat protein, beans, and rice. On day two eat protein, yogurt, and quinoa. Something like that.

This is why elimination diets are so freaking hard! So many things to consider and you cannot eat tons of the 3 foods so you're also hungry!

[racejunkie]

Just wanted to say that I skimmed over this thread rather quickly and noticed that Freebirdmac mentioned she can have small amounts of an offending food such as gluten, but it doesn't cause problems til it builds up in her system. This is the case with me too. Plus, I find cross-contamination to be an issue. For ex, I can't eat regular grocery store brand oatmeal, but I can eat oats that are certified gluten free. I don't have issues that are as bad as your's but I found the probiotic Align to be a great help over time. It was recommended by a gastroenterologist. I also found alternative treatments to be helpful for a variety of stuff over the years. Acupuncturists can help with this and also are helpful with diets for treating certain ailments. There are foods with warming, cooling, and neutral properties. Holistic practitioners use blood tests to determine deficiencies and digestive enzymes can help one digest nutrients better. As was mentioned already, anything applied to the skin is absorbed into the blood stream and can cause problems too. So, aim for natural stuff like aloe. Less is more. Some people even buy aloe in health food stores to drink. It's supposed to heal and soothe the digestive tract. I believe even Walmart sells it now too. Hope you are feeling better soon.