Phosphatidic acid (PA)

[spoch]

Just got the email from JISSN on the benefits of this for muscle thickness, strength, etc....are there any products with this, or any way to obtain?

[itzDodge]

http://www.jissn.com/content/9/1/47/abstract


Interesting, theres two products in the BB.com store with it but both look poorly dosed relative to the study

[Curiosus]

Can't really conclude anything from this pilot study. In theory PA is a very promising ingredient, but like many sports supplements we still have a long way to go to prove efficacy.

[spoch]

http://www.jissn.com/content/9/1/47/abstract


Interesting, theres two products in the BB.com store with it but both look poorly dosed relative to the study

Which products have this in it?

[NO HYPE]

Which products have this in it?

I suspect we'll be seeing PA in many protein and/or BCAA supplements in the near future....

Resistance exercise or an intermittent musclestretch can activate mTORC1 by direct binding of PA to mTOR [11,21].

PA is thought to act on a parallel pathway to a protein stimulus (specifically leucine) on activating the mTOR pathway [8,27], the greater benefit towards increases in lower body strength and lean body mass in PA suggests that the ingestion of this supplement may enhance lean tissue accruement and lowerbody strength to a greater extent than protein supplementation or resistance exercise only.

[Curiosus]

I suspect we'll be seeing PA in many protein and/or BCAA supplements in the near future....

I dunno, PA looks quite expensive and I think this is also the reason why they only used 750 mg in this study. Ralf Jager's patent application describes higher doses....

[spoch]

How do you know it's expensive? Also, any product examples of this?

[Curiosus]

How do you know it's expensive? Also, any product examples of this?

I'm not 100% sure because I haven't seen a price list. But PA (-use to increase muscle mass and strength) is patented, they have to recoup their R&D costs and their other soy lecithin derived ingredients (Serinaid, Alphasize) are also quite expensive.

I don't think Chemi Nutra already offers this compound.

[Curiosus]

Ralf Jager's patent application describes higher doses....

Just reread the patent and they used 1.6 grams of 50-60% PA-enriched lecithin. So the PA dose described in the patent and this study is about the same.

[Pke11ey]

Just reread the patent and they used 1.6 grams of 50-60% PA-enriched lecithin. So the PA dose described in the patent and this study is about the same.

Hmm...I wonder if there is a certain "type" of Phosphate that can be used...for example..he's a supplement that appears to contain a decent amount of Phosphate, and has a good pricing. Not sure if its the correct kind/type/etc...

Its by PrimaForce, called Creatinol-O-Phosphate. You can find it in the BB.com store.


Thoughts? Insight?

[SwolenONE]

Hmm...I wonder if there is a certain "type" of Phosphate that can be used...for example..he's a supplement that appears to contain a decent amount of Phosphate, and has a good pricing. Not sure if its the correct kind/type/etc...

Its by PrimaForce, called Creatinol-O-Phosphate. You can find it in the BB.com store.

Thoughts? Insight?

COP and PA are two different things entirely.

[Pke11ey]

COP and PA are two different things entirely.

Thanks for the clarification dude.

[chrismac365]

Which products have this in it?

check KING from Cutler Nutrition.

itzDodge - great link by the way...

[kissdadookie]

I suspect we'll be seeing PA in many protein and/or BCAA supplements in the near future....

Completely agree with this.

[bencarpenter]

As Cutler King is the cheapest PA product I bought two bottles to test out.

I shall probably do a video review when I have finished.

[kissdadookie]

As Cutler King is the cheapest PA product I bought two bottles to test out.

I shall probably do a video review when I have finished.

Do it!

[Misctake7]

As Cutler King is the cheapest PA product I bought two bottles to test out.

I shall probably do a video review when I have finished.

In for this!

[poison]

I have 3 bottle sitting here, a brand that shall remain unnamed. We shall see.

[TheFugitive]

As Cutler King is the cheapest PA product I bought two bottles to test out.

I shall probably do a video review when I have finished.

Looking forward to your thoughts

I have 3 bottle sitting here, a brand that shall remain unnamed. We shall see.

2 bottles are the magic ticket, 3 bottles are the golden egg

[poison]

Sorry, bro, not your stuff. I would have said if it was.

[TheFugitive]

Sorry, bro, not your stuff. I would have said if it was.

It's ok, 3 bottles is still the golden egg

[Big.Jazayrli]

I'm interested to use it as well once I come out of this calorie deficit

[poison]

It's ok, 3 bottles is still the golden egg

Good to hear!

[kissdadookie]

It's ok, 3 bottles is still the golden egg

Not if it's the one I'm thinking of, lol. 3 of those bottles should on paper = 2 bottles of King :P

[poison]

Not if it's the one I'm thinking of, lol. 3 of those bottles should on paper = 2 bottles of King :P

It's a biologically sound test?

[kissdadookie]

It's a biologically sound test?

That's the one I've been using. Bought 8 or 10 bottles in total. Lost count :P Have 2 bottles of King waiting for me at the office (been out of office this week). One promo bottle from BPI whenever they end up sending it

[Ninjathoskinny]

That's the one I've been using. Bought 8 or 10 bottles in total. Lost count :P Have 2 bottles of King waiting for me at the office (been out of office this week). One promo bottle from BPI whenever they end up sending it

MarcelinoChiles, you reading this? He has 10


10

10


10 bottles of PA! Gone through 4-5 and nada!

Body composition: nada
Weight: nada
Strength/ Performance: nothing special; whatever self reported improvements reported fall within upper interval model of neural adaptation of some who's an intermediate. The end point parameters can be emulated through smarter training/programming - isn't worth $40x4 $160

[kissdadookie]

MarcelinoChiles, you reading this? He has 10


10

10


10 bottles of PA! Gone through 4-5 and nada!

Body composition: nada
Weight: nada
Strength/ Performance: nothing special; whatever self reported improvements reported fall within upper interval model of neural adaptation of some who's an intermediate. The end point parameters can be emulated through smarter training/programming - isn't worth $40x4 $160

I've noted many times the benefits I've noticed using it. That's why I bought and have used so many bottles.

You're basically making up nonsense and posing the nonsense as if I have confirmed the stuff does nothing.

I've even noted several times how my training has not changed in months (at least 6 months at this point, conservatively speaking, realistically, more than that). So you're saying all of a sudden there's some sort of intermediate level that one reaches and magically everything starts accelerating notably? Because that's what you are claiming here, keywords: YOU ARE CLAIMING.

My first hand account with PA has been nothing other than incredibly positive. I gained a good 3 pounds right off the bat with the first bottle of Micro-PA (granted, likely glycogen and water retention rather than some sort of miraculous new muscle fiber growth).

[Ninjathoskinny]

Achivement Unlocked: KDD jimmies rustled, albeit unintentionally. Your negs only make me richer, smarter, and irresistible to the women of *your* fantasies worldwide, KDD. My tongue in cheek deduction arises from some of your own comments...like this gem right thar "I gained a good 3 pounds right off the bat with the first bottle of Micro-PA (granted, likely glycogen and water retention rather than some sort of miraculous new muscle fiber growth)" that can be found on *every* bb-related forum there is.

[kissdadookie]

Achivement Unlocked: KDD jimmies rustled, albeit unintentionally. Your negs only make me richer, smarter, and irresistible to the women of *your* fantasies worldwide, KDD. My tongue in cheek deduction arises from some of your own comments...like this gem right thar "I gained a good 3 pounds right off the bat with the first bottle of Micro-PA (granted, likely glycogen and water retention rather than some sort of miraculous new muscle fiber growth)" that can be found on *every* bb-related forum there is.

LoL.

I mentioned the weight gain figuring that it was very obviously also implied that diet and activity had no change. Obviously that went right over your head, very likely partially my fault for not spelling everything out for you. I figured that I post here and elsewhere so frequently and have talking about PA quite a bit, that you would have been following along to my first hand accounts using PA (I'm actually one of the few outside of the BT/TN site that have used PA extensively and posted about it regularly).

As for you greens comment (thanks for the reps):

"realism/objectivism/science uber alles"

You do not appear to exhibit any of those three qualities. Instead, it's just pure skepticism for the sake of skepticism. You've even gone as far as basically making chit up about my experience with PA, most of the stuff you've posted in this thread have basically been complete fabrications. If you're going to attempt to explain to others what I have experienced from PA, at the very bare minimum, you should have at least done your homework and gone over what I've been posting about PA here and elsewhere for a few months now.