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  1. #91
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    Originally Posted by GnastyGnorc View Post
    The men who wrote the Bible clearly were not trying to appeal to people rationally. It's a fear and emotion driven text.


    The reason why atheists call theists idiots is because in face of every logical rebuttal of any religious text's truth, theists never respond directly, instead using vague religious concepts found in the text itself. In other words, if I say the Bible isn't true, it's not logical to counter that the Bible is true because the Bible says so. Its truth must be verified independently. But when theists continue to use the same old illogical arguments from antiquity, it leads to labels such as 'idiot'. We call people 'idiots' or 'stupid' when they either lack intellectual capacity or refuse to fully utilize the intellectual abilities they do have.
    exactly.
    only in christianity does a father reward the killers of his son.


    worse yet; the christian god has made it clear that he wants to be obeyed and worshiped.
    he commanded his people not to kill.

    yet kill his son (who is actually him) and mankind is gifted eternal life.
    "As sure as the world stands, you jf1 shall spend an eternity in Hell in eternal torment..."
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  2. #92
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    Originally Posted by jf1 View Post
    exactly.
    only in christianity does a father reward the killers of his son.


    worse yet; the christian god has made it clear that he wants to be obeyed and worshiped.
    he commanded his people not to kill.

    yet kill his son (who is actually him) and mankind is gifted eternal life.
    What I truthfully don't understand about Christian theology is this:
    If Jesus is the son of god and also god, then why would he even give a **** that he was tortured and killed on Earth? I mean, here's this guy that is omnipotent, yet we're supposed to feel bad for him because his body was tortured. The body doesn't seem like the important part of Jesus at all, yet Christians emphasize both his humanness and his godliness. Even after all that torture and the murder, Jesus resurrects days later, so it doesn't seem like it mattered at all that he suffered.
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  3. #93
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    Originally Posted by GnastyGnorc View Post
    I find it funny when Christians ridicule other religions such as Mormonism or Islam. At least Joseph Smith and Muhammad were real people.
    Except they both stole for Jesus's pattern. And Jesus was just as real.

    I won't profess to tell anyone of those groups (or the many others) to depart from what he believes is the true faith. But in the end, there can only be one path to God. Only one is his inspired word, the rest are just cheap imitations.
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  4. #94
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    Originally Posted by KRANE View Post
    Except they both stole for Jesus's pattern. And Jesus was just as real.

    I won't profess to tell anyone of those groups (or the many others) to depart from what he believes is the true faith. But in the end, there can only be one path to God. Only one is his inspired word, the rest are just cheap imitations.
    to write it differently, there are many paths to God, all just further illustrate Gods mercy. However, there is only one God, and one Truth, and we should always continue to seek.
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  5. #95
    Cherchez la femme...Se si KRANE's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Scoundrel View Post
    to write it differently, there are many paths to God, all just further illustrate Gods mercy. However, there is only one God, and one Truth, and we should always continue to seek.
    Not according to the scripture I read:

    Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6
    Originally Posted by jf1 View Post
    even if he was; what kind of a father rewards those who torture and murder his son?

    nobody has explained this sufficiently yet.
    From what I read, the way God feel about it is explained very well: and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:17
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  6. #96
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    Originally Posted by KRANE View Post
    Not according to the scripture I read:

    Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6From what I read, the way God feel about it is explained very well: and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:17
    was addressing differences in denominations. As far as your provided scripture, I agree. Tho I also believe there will be some in heaven who never even heard his name, they just accepted him in their heart.
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  7. #97
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    Originally Posted by jf1 View Post
    all that babble and you didnt even address the OP!
    the only part i am interested in is bolded.

    your claim of god no longer being at enmity with us, because we broke his commandment and killed his son (who is actually him).
    you claim that god has blessed us for the torture and murder of his son!
    LULZ!
    I thought I answered that within the EDIT. Its not because "He blessed us for killing His son", but through the murder of His son - He had taken on the complete punishment of ALL sin throughout existence and pardoned us who were fallen because of it and seperated from Him beforehand because of it, and made us right WITH Him. You sadden me man, you try to profess such wisdom, and I know myself I am far from wise - but you act a damn fool. You don't care in the SLIGHTEST towards any type of knowledge of it, and any type of answer that may the the RIGHT one, you rebuke it for sake of "Logical arguement" which is naught but a pile of dookie smellier than a cow patch. You sir, are a troll.

    Originally Posted by GnastyGnorc View Post
    The men who wrote the Bible clearly were not trying to appeal to people rationally. It's a fear and emotion driven text.


    The reason why atheists call theists idiots is because in face of every logical rebuttal of any religious text's truth, theists never respond directly, instead using vague religious concepts found in the text itself. In other words, if I say the Bible isn't true, it's not logical to counter that the Bible is true because the Bible says so. Its truth must be verified independently. But when theists continue to use the same old illogical arguments from antiquity, it leads to labels such as 'idiot'. We call people 'idiots' or 'stupid' when they either lack intellectual capacity or refuse to fully utilize the intellectual abilities they do have.
    It truly isn't a fear and emotionally driven text. The portion of sin and hell are sincerely what it is. If we were still permitted to enter into Heaven (though it is not possible, but for the sake of arguement), without God's sacrifice, we wouldnt enjoy it. His holiness and purity would BURN us because of our sin and shame we carry. It is what it is. Yes through His sacrifice, we are pardoned from that possibility, but more importantly it has allowed us to be able to fruitfully pursue a relationship with the Creator of existence itself.

    Meh. Call me an idiot all you want, I'm not the sharpest cacti on the plant, but I'm not the dullest either. I'm not stupid, and I do use my intellect, and regardless of how much I may strive to try using it to comprehend - guess what? It truly is what it is. Flesh cannot discern things of spirit. I have to rely on God to guide me towards revelations of meaning within text. It is not a simple "WEEEELLLPP I read the bible once, LOL its stupid - people who believe this mush are idiots". No. It is a LIFE LONG ordeal which you have to study, and more than just studying the text itself to understand, you ought to pursue God and view it in the scope of salvation to get any type of clue. You say we respond in "vague religious cliche answers towards logical answers", but if the TRUTH is not what you seek, then what CAN be the answer? And if it is answered, there are 50 some if not MANY more you are "seeking" - which in reality you are not seeking, but it seems as if you are merely asking so that the "Christian" you are asking is pointed to say "You know what, I don't know, I take it by faith" to which you respond, "AHA!!!!!! You are an idiot for believing without proof!" (insert other type of insult) in terms of finding a fault in the defence so you have a scape goat for proving us "wrong" yourselves.
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  8. #98
    I put on my wizard hat Wizard_hat's Avatar
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    Pretty crap sacrifice if you ask me.
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  9. #99
    Self-Banned jf1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KRANE View Post
    Not according to the scripture I read:

    Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6From what I read, the way God feel about it is explained very well: and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:17
    yes, we know that god was 'pleased' with his son.
    i missed the part where he was so pleased with his death that he proffered us a reward!
    you cant be that dense.

    "“This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”...KILL HIM AND I WILL REWARD YOU![/b]

    Originally Posted by SlapBassist View Post
    I thought I answered that within the EDIT. Its not because "He blessed us for killing His son", but through the murder of His son - He had taken on the complete punishment of ALL sin throughout existence and pardoned us who were fallen because of it and seperated from Him beforehand because of it, and made us right WITH Him. You sadden me man, you try to profess such wisdom, and I know myself I am far from wise - but you act a damn fool. You don't care in the SLIGHTEST towards any type of knowledge of it, and any type of answer that may the the RIGHT one, you rebuke it for sake of "Logical arguement" which is naught but a pile of dookie smellier than a cow patch. You sir, are a troll.
    it would be logical to assume that yahweh would not be happy that humans killed the son that he sent (which is actually him).

    if god created man in 'his image', then god would be gieved and upset about the torture and murder of jeebus.

    your religion however, states that he was so pleased with this that he rewarded us with eternal life!
    :rolleys:
    Last edited by jf1; 03-12-2011 at 05:45 AM.
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  10. #100
    Mod Hated My Prev Title b.spencer's Avatar
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    Here is another spin on it most people have not considered -- the Abrahamic God actually introduced death onto the planet (if they are correct) and killed for the first time on this planet himself.

    Consider the implications of Genesis 3:21 --

    And the LORD God made clothing from animal skins for Adam and his wife.
    The abrahamic God made clothing for Adam and Eve from animal skins. Before this moment, according to believers in these religions, nothing had ever died before. All animals were newly created and immortal. So, to get animal skins, God had to kill some of those creations and skin them. Adam and Eve did not kill, God did.

    The Abrahamic God is a god of killing -- it killed for the first time on this planet, demands that his followers kill for him, and even committed "suicide by police" by allowing the Romans to execute him (to Christians at least.)
    "You will give the people an ideal to strive towards. They'll race behind you. They will stumble; they will fall. But, in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders." Jor-El
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  11. #101
    Self-Banned jf1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by b.spencer View Post
    Here is another spin on it most people have not considered -- the Abrahamic God actually introduced death onto the planet (if they are correct) and killed for the first time on this planet himself.

    Consider the implications of Genesis 3:21 --



    The abrahamic God made clothing for Adam and Eve from animal skins. Before this moment, according to believers in these religions, nothing had ever died before. All animals were newly created and immortal. So, to get animal skins, God had to kill some of those creations and skin them. Adam and Eve did not kill, God did.

    The Abrahamic God is a god of killing -- it killed for the first time on this planet, demands that his followers kill for him, and even committed "suicide by police" by allowing the Romans to execute him (to Christians at least.)
    in b4 the legions of the brain-dead tell us that god could have made the skins from scratch...
    "he made everything...he could easily just make teh skins!"

    (outliketrout is the first that comes to mind to attempt this defense)
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  12. #102
    Registered User SlapBassist's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by b.spencer View Post
    Here is another spin on it most people have not considered -- the Abrahamic God actually introduced death onto the planet (if they are correct) and killed for the first time on this planet himself.

    Consider the implications of Genesis 3:21 --



    The abrahamic God made clothing for Adam and Eve from animal skins. Before this moment, according to believers in these religions, nothing had ever died before. All animals were newly created and immortal. So, to get animal skins, God had to kill some of those creations and skin them. Adam and Eve did not kill, God did.

    The Abrahamic God is a god of killing -- it killed for the first time on this planet, demands that his followers kill for him, and even committed "suicide by police" by allowing the Romans to execute him (to Christians at least.)
    lol u srs? nah you cant be srs.

    jus sayin, creatures weren't necessarily immortal at that point. the creation was perfect in physical condition in that there were no radiation, etc. and was a perfect growing environment for everything, but it doesnt mean death wasn't in the world. Before God got the animal skins, you realize what happened right? Adam and Eve had sinned and brought spiritual death unto themselves and brought the curse of sin into creation. IMO you guys are so smart, your just stupid and are acting willfully ignorant.
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  13. #103
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    One of the most humorous aspects of dealing wwith those with full-blown Christardation is the way they will repeat exactly what you have said, changing the emphasis of words or ideas as if they somehow made their counter-claim demonstrably true. This thread is a perfect example:

    jf1: God is rewarding humanity for murdering his Son.

    Christards: No, it was a sacrifice, not a murder.

    As if whether or not Jesus went willingly to his death changes the implications of the actions of those that put him on the cross! Can you imagine the way law enforcement would change if society at large embraced such a ridiculous notion?

    Police: You're under arrest for murder.

    Criminal: It wasn't murder, he wanted to die.

    Police: Oh, okay, just making sure, have a nice day.

    Christards create vast and deeply emotional paragraphs about how Jesus sacrificed himself for them, yet this does nothing to change the fact 1) Jesus was intentionally murdered and 2) all of humanity is rewarded for that murder, just as all of humanity is purportedly rewarded for accepting that murder (call it a sacrifice if you want, but Jesus was still urdered).

    If I went willingly to my own murder, say, willingly walking into an ambush, knowing that this action would save someone else's life, was I or was I not murdered? THe logical mind comes to the conclusion that I was murdered, regardless of my own intent, because it did nothing to change the original intent (murder) of my murderers! Yet because this involves Jesus, it has to be something MAGICAL, something SPECIAL: it was a SACRIFICE!

    Good show, jf1; I had not considered this angle of Christardation, but it is painfully clear thaat Christianity rewards murders now!
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    spurthole TH3SHR3DD3R's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SlapBassist View Post
    lol u srs? nah you cant be srs.

    jus sayin, creatures weren't necessarily immortal at that point. the creation was perfect in physical condition in that there were no radiation, etc. and was a perfect growing environment for everything, but it doesnt mean death wasn't in the world. Before God got the animal skins, you realize what happened right? Adam and Eve had sinned and brought spiritual death unto themselves and brought the curse of sin into creation. IMO you guys are so smart, your just stupid and are acting willfully ignorant.
    What you say here doesn't really matter; no matter how you wring out the definition of the story, or the order of the events they happened in, the Bible is an untrustworthy document.

    Burial of Jesus:

    Jesus’ burial is important because without it, there can be no tomb from which Jesus can arise in three days. It’s also historically implausible: crucifixion was intended as a shameful, horrible execution which included allowing the bodies to remain nailed up until they rotted off. It’s inconceivable that Pilate would have agreed to turn the body over to anyone for any reason. This may have something to do with why the gospel authors all have different stories about it.
    How Long Was Jesus in the Tomb?:

    Jesus is portrayed as being dead and in the tomb for a given length time, but how long?

    Mark 10:34 - Jesus says he will “rise again” after “three days.”
    Matthew 12:40 - Jesus says he will be in the earth “three days and three nights...”

    No resurrection narrative describes Jesus as being in a tomb for three full days, or for three days and three nights.
    Guarding the Tomb:

    Would the Romans have guarded Jesus’ tomb? The gospels disagree on what happened.

    Matthew 27:62-66 - A guard is stationed outside the tomb the day after Jesus’ burial
    Mark, Luke, John - No guard is mentioned. In Mark and Luke, the women who approach the tomb do not appear to expect to see any guards
    Jesus is Anointed Before Burial:

    It was tradition to anoint a person’s body after they died. Who anointed Jesus and when?

    Mark 16:1-3, Luke 23:55-56 - A group of women who were at Jesus’ burial come back later to anoint his body
    Matthew - Joseph wraps the body and the women come the next morning, but no mention is made of anointing Jesus
    John 19:39-40 - Joseph of Arimathea anoints Jesus’ body before burial
    Who Visited Jesus’ Tomb?:

    The women visiting Jesus’ tomb is central to the resurrection story, but who visited?

    Mark 16:1 - Three women visit Jesus’ tomb: Mary Magdalene, a second Mary, and Salome
    Matthew 28:1 - Two women visit Jesus’ tomb: Mary Magdalene and another Mary
    Luke 24:10 - At least five women visit Jesus’ tomb: Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, Joanna, and “other women.”
    John 20:1 - One woman visits Jesus’ tomb: Mary Magdalene. She later fetches Peter and another disciple
    When Did the Women Visit the Tomb?:

    Whoever visited and however many there were, it’s also not clear when they arrived.

    Mark 16:2 - They arrive after sunrise
    Matthew 28:1 - They arrive at about dawn
    Luke 24:1 - It is early dawn when they arrive
    John 20:1 - It is dark when they arrive
    What Was the Tomb Like?:

    It’s not clear what the women saw when they arrived at the tomb.

    Mark 16:4, Luke 24:2, John 20:1 - The stone in front of Jesus’ tomb had been rolled away
    Matthew 28:1-2 - The stone in front of Jesus’ tomb was still in place and would be rolled away later
    Who Greets the Women?:

    The women aren’t alone for long, but it’s not clear who greets them.

    Mark 16:5 - The women enter the tomb and meet one young man in there
    Matthew 28:2 - An angel arrives during an earthquake, rolls away the stone, and sits on it outside. Pilate’s guards are also there
    Luke 24:2-4 - The women enter the tomb and two men suddenly appear — it’s not clear if they are inside or outside
    John 20:12 - The women do not enter the tomb, but there are two angels sitting inside
    What Do the Women Do?:

    Whatever happened, it must have been pretty amazing. The gospels are inconsistent in how the women react, though.

    Mark 16:8 - The women keep quiet, despite being told to spread the word
    Matthew 28:8 - The women go tell the disciples
    Luke 24:9 - The women tell “the eleven and to all the rest.”
    John 20:10-11 - Mary stays to cry while the two disciples just go home

    We are to believe the clearly fictitious story of creation, and yet the details of Jesus' burial cannot be correlated? GTFO!
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    Originally Posted by TH3SHR3DD3R View Post
    Christards: No, it was a sacrifice, not a murder.

    As if whether or not Jesus went willingly to his death changes the implications of the actions of those that put him on the cross! Can you imagine the way law enforcement would change if society at large embraced such a ridiculous notion?

    Police: You're under arrest for murder.

    Criminal: It wasn't murder, he wanted to die.

    Police: Oh, okay, just making sure, have a nice day. and here is a get out of jail free card as a token of our appreciation!
    well done sir!
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    Ya know just throwing it out there, before science showed how the natural world worked ancient religions all had a plethora of different gods they fiercely believed controlled everything. Oh and this is all before the first Christian like religion's oldest recorded beginnings, and wouldn't you think if all humans came from an original 2 whom actually talked to God, then at the very least all descended people would likely pass on stories about 1 God creating everything.

    Logicaly this should be a checkmate argument against any intelligent Christian, and that's without going in to the ****ed up obvious incest, God's supposedly perfect yet obviously flawed plans, and the lack of those things called dinosaurs in the Bible.

    But it never will because no matter how little it makes sense, some people need to believe in a God controlling things to deal with their struggles in life. I see it as a sign of weakness, but I might be more tolerant of religious belief if it didn't keep scientific advancement for the greater good from being researched. Religion is brainwashing, everyone may not be strapping on a bomb vest for their God but any hardcore believer of almost any religion could be convinced to be Just as radical as the jihad.

    Sorry about the long post, just wanted to get my point across.
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    Originally Posted by jf1 View Post
    yes, we know that god was 'pleased' with his son.
    i missed the part where he was so pleased with his death that he proffered us a reward!
    you cant be that dense.

    "“This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”...KILL HIM AND I WILL REWARD YOU![/b]



    it would be logical to assume that yahweh would not be happy that humans killed the son that he sent (which is actually him).

    if god created man in 'his image', then god would be gieved and upset about the torture and murder of jeebus.

    your religion however, states that he was so pleased with this that he rewarded us with eternal life!
    :rolleys:
    For the record, I'm not taking to you. Your fate is already written.
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    Originally Posted by KRANE View Post
    For the record, I'm not taking to you. Your fate is already written.
    Yep; no reason, no logic, no rationality: only fear-mongering. There is no reason to be Christian other than the fear of Hell. That is the sole reason of Christianity: to avoid Hell. It has nothing to do with being a good person, because it has been shown time and again that belief in God or Christ is not required to BE good, let alone to THINK good. When you cut away all the fat, and only the meat is left, what a bitter meat it is: God is a tyrant that demands your belief, even if it's not possible for you to believe in him. He doesn't care if you are kind and compassionate and empathetic to others; he only cares that you blindly acknowledge his existence.

    It's funny, because God always reflects the identity of the bliever. In the case of Krane, apparently God isa sadistic tyrant that doesn't like people questioning him. Interesting.
    Last edited by TH3SHR3DD3R; 03-13-2011 at 06:33 AM.
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    Originally Posted by KRANE View Post
    For the record, I'm not taking to you. Your fate is already written.
    'judge not...lest ye be judged yourself.'
    'let he who is whithout sin cast the first stone.'

    *yawn*; another christian not following the word of jesus.

    how about some words from yahweh; "this is my son, who i am well pleased...(please torture and murder him and i will be even more pleased)!
    "As sure as the world stands, you jf1 shall spend an eternity in Hell in eternal torment..."
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    Actually I think Christians are causing the earthquakes and floods, you've pissed off the gods who actually exist.


    This being, the thunder gods and the um.....faultline Gods...yeah.


    Or is Yahweh making a comeback with the latest string of disasters?



    Id prefer locusts personally I could avoid them without trouble. But who am I to question which horrible disaster a God should unleash
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    Post

    Originally Posted by AK1615 View Post
    Makes perfect sense to me.

    A man (the son of God) who lived a perfect life, who committed NO sin whatsoever was killed like a common criminal. And even though he was the son of God and could come off the cross and kill everyone who did it to them, he instead took it for our sake. And then asked God to forgive us.


    If you don't believe it, that's on you. But why bash on it? What are you trying to prove that Millions of other people have tried to prove. Your views on the "fallacy" of Christianity is not going to change any believers mind.
    He was a Sabbath desecrator and spread lies about Jewish beliefs. He was a sinner.
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    Originally Posted by TH3SHR3DD3R View Post
    Yep; no reason, no logic, no rationality: only fear-mongering. There is no reason to be Christian other than the fear of Hell. That is the sole reason of Christianity: to avoid Hell. It has nothing to do with being a good person, because it has been shown time and again that belief in God or Christ is not required to BE good, let alone to THINK good. When you cut away all the fat, and only the meat is left, what a bitter meat it is: God is a tyrant that demands your belief, even if it's not possible for you to believe in him. He doesn't care if you are kind and compassionate and empathetic to others; he only cares that you blindly acknowledge his existence.

    It's funny, because God always reflects the identity of the bliever. In the case of Krane, apparently God isa sadistic tyrant that doesn't like people questioning him. Interesting.
    Your logic" and judgment are clouded by the Deceiver; without God it is impossible to be good for the two are synonymous. I'm sorry you can't see that.
    Originally Posted by wildphucker View Post
    Actually I think Christians are causing the earthquakes and floods, you've pissed off the gods who actually exist.


    This being, the thunder gods and the um.....faultline Gods...yeah.


    Or is Yahweh making a comeback with the latest string of disasters?



    Id prefer locusts personally I could avoid them without trouble. But who am I to question which horrible disaster a God should unleash
    The earth is the earth. And all these things were foretold.
    Originally Posted by jf1 View Post
    'judge not...lest ye be judged yourself.'
    'let he who is whithout sin cast the first stone.'

    *yawn*; another christian not following the word of jesus.

    how about some words from yahweh; "this is my son, who i am well pleased...(please torture and murder him and i will be even more pleased)!
    Since it's all just fairy tales to you it shouldn't matter. And by the way, you misinterpreted that above passage as well.
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    Originally Posted by AK1615 View Post
    We're not rewarded for killing him. We're promised eternal life for believing that he died for us.
    Jesus sacrificed himself for us.


    Yes, and that Prince from Nigeria promises you 3 million dollars if you send him the 3,000 he needs to access his trust fund lolz.
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    Originally Posted by KRANE View Post
    Except they both stole for Jesus's pattern. And Jesus was just as real.

    I won't profess to tell anyone of those groups (or the many others) to depart from what he believes is the true faith. But in the end, there can only be one path to God. Only one is his inspired word, the rest are just cheap imitations.
    Jesus "stole" it from Simon of Paria 4BC, who stole it from, blah blah blah...
    Pure plagiarism.
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    Originally Posted by KRANE View Post
    Your logic" and judgment are clouded by the Deceiver; without God it is impossible to be good for the two are synonymous. I'm sorry you can't see that.
    Typical apologist bull****, lacking even the most remote bit of reason, logic, common sense, or brain activity level.

    Basically, Christianity has attempted to co-opt goodness and compassion and love by claiming that these require belief in their God; a common religious tactic, but one that falls short nonetheless. The only true distinction between Christian thought and all other thought is that Christian thought exists solely to keep one from the fires of Hell; it has nothing to do with goodness, compassion or love. Christianity is exclusively a mechanism of fear and hatred.
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    Originally Posted by BootyBandit View Post
    Yes, and that Prince from Nigeria promises you 3 million dollars if you send him the 3,000 he needs to access his trust fund lolz.
    Did he perform miracles and profess to be the Son of God? Is there a foretelling of his arrival works and future that dates back thousands of years? Does he have a following of millions and a two thousand year old history? Are his words good for reproof, correction and instruction in rightness? Is there a bible written about him? Did he sacrifice himself on the cross for our sins?

    Many have claimed to be the savior (long before, during and after Christ) but only one was able to provide sufficient proof for his claims.
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    Originally Posted by KRANE View Post
    Did he perform miracles and profess to be the Son of God? Is there a foretelling of his arrival works and future that dates back thousands of years? Does he have a following of millions and a two thousand year old history? Are his words good for reproof, correction and instruction in rightness? Is there a bible written about him? Did he sacrifice himself on the cross for our sins?

    Many have claimed to be the savior (long before, during and after Christ) but only one was able to provide sufficient proof for his claims.


    No, and neither did Jesus. Just as the Nigerian who isn't a prince, but rather a con man - so was Jesus.
    Religion = world's fist phishing scam.
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    Oh and nice argument there - "the bible tells me so" - fooking brilliant.
    No racist, but why are all black people so superstitious and dumb?
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    Originally Posted by SlapBassist View Post
    lol u srs? nah you cant be srs.

    jus sayin, creatures weren't necessarily immortal at that point. the creation was perfect in physical condition in that there were no radiation, etc. and was a perfect growing environment for everything, but it doesnt mean death wasn't in the world. Before God got the animal skins, you realize what happened right? Adam and Eve had sinned and brought spiritual death unto themselves and brought the curse of sin into creation. IMO you guys are so smart, your just stupid and are acting willfully ignorant.
    Interesting . . . a great many Christians disagree with you. They believe that there was no physical death before the fall. Every young earth creationist out there believes that there was no death before the fall. YEC's believe that the fall introduced both forms of death, physical and spiritual, to all the planet. So, if they YEC's are correct, God, killed the very first thing ever to die on earth. If you are correct, then God was the first "higher" (non-animal) being to kill an animal, as Genesis 1 clearly says that Adam and Eve did not eat meat.

    I am not the one who is stupid or willfully ignorant. You should start looking inside your own Christian household.
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    Originally Posted by mjnmj View Post
    1. There are such things as absolute truths

    2. Religions contradict each other; therefore, they cannot all be true.

    3. Though there are other religions that have prophecies in them, none are 100% accurate as is the Bible

    4. The Claims and Deeds of Christ: Again, making a claim is one thing. Backing it up is another. Did Jesus also back up His fantastic words with miraculous deeds? Yes, He did.

    Jesus changed water into wine (John 2:6-10).
    Jesus cast out demons (Matt. 8:28-32; 15:22-28).
    Jesus healed lepers (Matt. 8:3; Luke 17:14).
    Jesus healed diseases (Matt. 4:23,24; Luke 6:17-19).
    Jesus healed the paralytic (Mark 2:3-12).
    Jesus raised the dead (Matt. 9:25; John 11:43-44).
    Jesus restored sight to the blind (Matt. 9:27-30; John 9:1-7).
    Jesus restored / cured deafness (Mark 7:32-35).
    Jesus fed the multitude (Matt. 14:15-21; Matt. 15:32-38).
    Jesus walked on water (Matt. 14:25-27).
    Jesus calmed a storm with a command (Matt. 8:22-27; Mark 4:39).
    Jesus rose from the dead (Luke 24:39; John 20:27).
    Jesus appeared to disciples after resurrection (John 20:19).
    The eyewitnesses recorded the miracles of Jesus, and the gospels have been reliably transmitted to us. Therefore, we can believe what Jesus said about Himself for two reasons: one, because what He said and did agrees with the Old Testament; and two, because Jesus performed many convincing miracles in front of people who testified and wrote about what they saw Him do.

    5. Christ's resurrection
    No other religious leader has died in full view of trained executioners, had a guarded tomb, and then risen three days later to appear to many many people. This resurrection is proof of who Jesus is and that He did accomplish what He set out to do: provide the only means of redemption for mankind.

    Buddha did not rise from the dead. Muhammad did not rise from the dead. Confucius did not rise from the dead. Krishna did not rise from the dead, etc. Only Jesus has physically risen from the dead, walked on water, claimed to be God, and raised others from the dead. He has conquered death. Why trust anyone else? Why trust anyone who can be held by physical death when we have a Messiah who is greater than death itself?

    Why should anyone trust in Christianity over Islam, Buddhism, Mormonism, or anything else? It is because there are absolute truths. Only in Christianity are there accurately fulfilled prophecies of a coming Messiah. Only in Christianity do we have the extremely accurate transmission of the eyewitness documents (gospels), so we can trust what was originally written.

    Either Jesus is true and all other religions are false, or other religions are true and Jesus is false. There are no other options. I choose to follow the risen Lord Jesus.

    Repped!
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