Labrada HICA Max?

[NO HYPE]

The question isn't whether leucine raises HICA, Its whether HICA outperforms leucine....

Especially from a cost-to-benefit ratio.

I'd like to see some comparisons with HICA and ThermoLife's leucine-nitrate, as the significantly improved solubility/bioavailability of leucine would likely give HICA a run for it's money [if HICA even turns out to be worthwhile].

[JoseCM]

Got some of this stuff for free just to try it.

As some expensive muscle candy? Great!

As far as effects? I personally haven't felt anything different at all. When added to my arsenal of LCLT, citrulline malate, Beta alanine and L-tyrosine, I haven't felt any difference at all apart from the candy-like taste of the xylitol. I don't take it with the aforementioned stack, I'm just pointing out the other supplements I use that have actually been studied to improve markers of recovery.

Currently I'm running a 6 day 500kcal deficit from diet followed by a day of carbohydrate re-feeding at maintenance, and cardio for 30-35 minutes 4-5 times a week.

My personal opinion: Great taste, but I do NOT see this product outperforming BCAAs.

[tbex]

Since this product apparently appears to decrease catabolism and help put your body in an anabolic state, I use it more as a tool for these purposes. I have used 1.5 bottles so far - I dose 3 tablets immediately after workouts (apparently Lee recommended this recently over 3 doses spread thruout the day, so I decided what the hell I'll give that a try.) I am definitely recovering at an exceptional rate, but this is in combination with a 5000cal diet, 30g supplemental Glutamine, 5g Creatine as well as 5g Arginine (2.5 morning/2.5 night).

I always have one or 2 beside my bed; when I wake up at night to go to the bathroom or for whatever reason I chew one of these. In theory this keeps me anabolic during an important time (sleep). I haven't heard of anyone else doing this but in theory it makes great sense and is much easier than taking a nighttime protein/BCAA shake.

Also note that I DO NOT take any free-form BCAA's. My Intraworkout drink is 2 servings of gatorade mixed with 10g Glutamine and 2.5g Creatine.

[LouB2010]

HICA is now included in the new SNI BCAA BLAST if I am not mistaken.

[NO HYPE]

30g supplemental Glutamine

Oh boy.

[TXGTOU]

I just grabbed a trial size of these with my BB.com order and I can't help wonder how I'm supposed to know if I like the product if they only gave me 2 wafers? I guess I'll do some more research on the product until I tire of reading reviews or decide to bite the bullet.


Just a suggestion, maybe a week's supply for a trial size would make more sense...

[FCrane]

I just grabbed a trial size of these with my BB.com order and I can't help wonder how I'm supposed to know if I like the product if they only gave me 2 wafers? I guess I'll do some more research on the product until I tire of reading reviews or decide to bite the bullet.


Just a suggestion, maybe a week's supply for a trial size would make more sense...

I think they make a trial so you can judge the taste.

Besides the product does jack ****.

[TXGTOU]

I think they make a trial so you can judge the taste.

Besides the product does jack ****.

I sometimes wonder if that's why they give you such a small trial size. As long as a product does what it claims to do and does it well, it can taste like Chaz Bono's fake testicles after a long session on Dancing with the Stars for all I care. Maybe I should buy a ****load of sweet tarts and market them as some badass uber-muscle building product and rake in the money.....

[FCrane]

I sometimes wonder if that's why they give you such a small trial size. As long as a product does what it claims to do and does it well, it can taste like Chaz Bono's fake testicles after a long session on Dancing with the Stars for all I care. Maybe I should buy a ****load of sweet tarts and market them as some badass uber-muscle building product and rake in the money.....

Well it's working for Labrada

[TXGTOU]

Well it's working for Labrada

I must admit, if I have to force myself to eat a protein bar, theirs taste better than most other products I've tried.

[FCrane]

I must admit, if I have to force myself to eat a protein bar, theirs taste better than most other products I've tried.

Yeah their double dipped bars are the tits. I think they're a solid brand, don't get me wrong, but this product is a swing and a miss. It happens.

[passat25]

I have read all the messages and I can't tell if I am really sold about this product... I think I will pass for now.

No spending money on gimmicks.

[antonio_zeus]

^^ to the above post.

This has not sold anybody on trying this product. We need various bodybuilders to try this thing out, who follow consistent training and eating routines.


If no one is willing to do it, then so be it. But its hard to judge this product with the current posts!

[metal2469]

Well I haven't stopped taking this since my last post in this thread. I love this stuff. Decreased soreness, and lifts have gone consistently up. I'm a fan.

[SwolenONE]

Well I haven't stopped taking this since my last post in this thread. I love this stuff. Decreased soreness, and lifts have gone consistently up. I'm a fan.

That is good to hear, perhaps it will grow more popular rather than fading into obscurity like HMB did.

[mdany5]

Well I haven't stopped taking this since my last post in this thread. I love this stuff. Decreased soreness, and lifts have gone consistently up. I'm a fan.

how much do you take?

[metal2469]

how much do you take?

Currently I am taking 5 tabs/wafers a day.

1 in the morning/empty stomach
2 in the afternoon/empty stomach
2 in evening/empty stomach

On workout days I take 2 immediately post workout.

[AlwaysCrazy]

I recently bought creatine and HICA MAX. I plan to use creatine when I start to lift weights. My current goal it to lose body fat before I start lifting. I do exercise to keep as much muscle as possible. Should I consume HICA MAX while losing body fat(exercise about 4 times a week no weights yet)? Or should I wait until i hit a plateau once i start lifting? Would really appreciate the help.

[InchekInvasion]

Just wondering can you take this with Rivalus COMPLX5 prework out protein and can I take all 3 before my workout or should I spread it throughout the day also do you take the Hica on rest days

[churchofdlhart]

It eliminated most DOMS for me and that's about about it. Muscles felt fuller but I was taking creatine and a test booster at the time, my first time for both, so I can't directly say the HICA Max did anything.

[BOSSEN]

Whats the latest on this?? good? yes/no?
just started on it, im skeptical as things that taste this good arent usually good for you haha

[Jacket]

Got a sample size with my last BB.com order. Not enough to tell anything other than taste, which is great. Would love to give this product a try, but not willing to spend money until Ive seen more reviews.

[brooksy86]

What about taking them with protein, the directions are extremely vague and I've started taking them last week but if the best dosage is 3 right after a workout that's also the time i have a protein shake. All the bottle says is don't take it with protein or amino acids. Does that mean at all, or with 5 min, 10? I'm a very plan orientated person and its bugging me trying to find the proper instruction on it.

[rserra]

I´m taking it for a week stacke with Viridex XT and Jack3d.
No sides at all, felling stronger and heavier. But it´s too soon to take any conclusion.
HICA tastes pretty good

[wildcat90]

I saw an ad which says "HICA is just like Leucine, just 100x stronger". For real? Can't wait for it to hit local stores!

Side note: Fill up this super short survey to win 2x iPhone 4S guys!

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[Waren127]

I started using hica 2 weeks ago I take 1 pill when I wake up one at 2 after my work out and one before bed I have noticed alot of difference in my work out my muscles do not feel tierd or stiff the next day I can do more reps then I could before and my muscles look alot tighter and fit if that makes sense.

I have noticed though that I get a crash at around 6 possibly caused by hica max otherwise I'm finding it to be very good and doesn't taste bad

[ZDub212]

I started using hica 2 weeks ago I take 1 pill when I wake up one at 2 after my work out and one before bed I have noticed alot of difference in my work out my muscles do not feel tierd or stiff the next day I can do more reps then I could before and my muscles look alot tighter and fit if that makes sense.

I have noticed though that I get a crash at around 6 possibly caused by hica max otherwise I'm finding it to be very good and doesn't taste bad

Thanks for the feedback. I can assure you that the crash is not from Hica-Max. Are you taking any caffeinated or sugary/carb based products?

[ZDub212]

Here is an interesting paper on the subject that might help answer a few questions.

[ZDub212]

How HICA works

By the Labrada Research Group

HICA MAX™ is one of the newest additions to the Labrada Nutrition line, and presents a new pathway to supporting muscle growth for everyone, male and female, pushing muscle to the point of breakdown during vigorous weight lifting session or power workouts. HICAmax is designed to work in a catabolic environment. Recreational lifters easing through a simple circuit or group fitness class are unlikely to find benefit.

The active ingredient in HICA MAX is L-α-hydroxyisocaproic acid, abbreviated to HICA. Chemical nomenclature, (the system that defines proper naming of chemicals) recognizes other names for HICA, including 2-Hydroxy-4-methylpentanoic acid, 2-Hydroxy-4-methylvaleric acid, and leucic acid. HICA is a metabolite, or degradation product of leucine, the essential branched chain amino acid. However, leucine supplementation does not elevate blood levels of HICA.

To review, proteins, including skeletal muscle contractile protein, are composed of chains of amino acids. In skeletal muscle, there are two proteins that are involved with the actual contraction and relaxation that you know best as “flexing.” These are actin and myosin. In these proteins, branched chain amino acids are present in much higher concentration than other proteins. Branched chain amino acids include: leucine, isoleucine, and valine.

In addition to being a structural amino acid, leucine also has “hormone-like” properties; isoleucine and valine do not appear to, at least to a measurable degree. Leucine is a significant stimulator of the anabolic pathway that is a vital part of building new muscle called mTOR. When mTOR is activated, it turns on the muscle building machinery in muscle cells. Normally, leucine is not present in the muscle cell in its “free” form. Rather, it is rapidly incorporated into proteins. Certain other amino acids – namely glutamine, alanine, and taurine, are present in concentrations that are much higher. Free leucine is present in significant quantities during two conditions, after eating and during muscle breakdown, (also called proteolysis). Proteolysis is a consequence of the mechanical stresses of exercise, and changes in the acidity of the cell. The “anabolic” effect of leucine appears to peak out at 0.135 g/kg/day. Mega-dosing may add additional benefits, but it appears to require about 20 grams in a single serving.

Knowing that, it should be no surprise that the metabolites of leucine have a physiologic effect as well. Metabolites are new chemicals created as leucine is degraded. Leucine trades off the NH2 (amine group) to replenish the muscle’s pool of glutamine and alanine, becoming α-ketoisocaproic acid (KIC). KIC can be further metabolized to form HMB, a supplement which can be quite beneficial to aging adults by supporting lean mass retention, but has not shown convincing evidence of efficacy in young adult athletes.
A different pathway in the leucine degradation pathway produces the hydroxy-analog of KIC, L-α-hydroxyisocaproic acid (HICA). HICA has not been studied to the extent that KIC has, let alone leucine.

It is known that leucine consumed orally, either in a meal or as a supplement, passes through the liver with little loss to the BCAT enzyme that degrades it to KIC. As KIC is the precursor to HICA, therefore leucine supplementation is not a direct method of providing HICA.
The primary leucine pool is in skeletal muscle. This tissue is one that can functionally undergo catabolism, as opposed to other tissue which are generally homeostatic (in a balance, neither growing or breaking down). During starvation, stress, or extreme exercise, the contractile proteins can breakdown and release amino acids. As the BCAAs are in high percentage in contractile protein, this “floods” the muscle cell with free BCAAs, especially leucine. Here is where the majority of KIC and HICA and produced. KIC can be shuttled to the mitochondria of the muscle for energy (ATP) production, but not to a major degree. Instead, it is degraded down to acetoacetate, a ketone body. Think of the ketogenic diets, this is what is released to induce ketosis (from several amino acids, not just leucine). KIC can also be a donor carbon base to regenerate glutamine and alanine which are needed to promote other cell functions.

KIC has a double bonded oxygen (=O) in place of the amine group (NH2) which is tightly bound to the rest of the molecule. HICA instead has a hydroxyl group (OH) which can be more easily removed. HICA is not just another form of KIC or leucine. Leucine, and to a greater degree KIC, increase the release of insulin during a meal, and increase the cell response to insulin relative to its anabolic signaling. HICA does not appear to have these properties.

Instead, HICA appears to be effective in binding the waste buildup that occurs during proteolysis (protein breakdown) during catabolic events, like exercise and starvation. Most people are familiar with lactic acid. It is produced when the muscle outworks the oxygen supply. Normally pyruvate (pyruvic acid) is shuttled to the mitochondria to be burned for additional calories. However, when oxygen is low relative to the work being done, pyruvate is turned into lactate (lactic acid). This is the fatiguing burn felt during longer sprints or higher rep sets. HICA absorbs some of the acid (H+ or hydrogen ions), reducing the effect of lowering the pH (or making more acid) the inside of the muscle cell. When the pH drops much below normal, the muscle cell stop producing ATP and “burns out” until given time to recover.

Another waste product produced a catabolic event is ammonia (NH4+). Ammonia is a waste product in nearly all creatures. Birds excrete it as uric acid; mammals, including humans, convert it into urea which is a major component of urine. However, ammonia is nitrogen-rich (the N in NH4+), so for those seeking to achieve a positive nitrogen balance (the original measure of anabolic steroids effects on the metabolism), it seeks wasteful to “piss it away.” In fact, it is not necessary to do so as long as the body can use it to build high-value molecules, such as leucine. Reducing the “ammonia strain” is an active area of research, as it is a factor leading to peripheral fatigue. Reducing acid build up in the cell, and ammonia buildup in the blood allows for longer, high intensity work.

Remember, HICA is leucine that has had the NH2 replaced with an OH. Thankfully, that is not an irreversible process. Transaminase and reaminase enzymes can attached an NH2 in place of the OH, creating leucine. Thus, HICA can also serve as a leucine precursor. Nearly thirty years ago, people with failing kidney function were placed on low-nitrogen diets, but often suffered from relative protein deficiency (protein being the main source of nitrogen in the diet). Patents were acquired relating to the use of keto- and hydroxyl-analogs (metabolites) of amino acids to supplement the protein intake of kidney failure patients. This improved lean mass retention and nitrogen balance for this group of people. Normally, this is not an issue for most, but during catabolic breakdown, the loss of leucine can be more quickly replaced. HICA can also be oxidized to create KIC, possibly providing some the of effects of that agent.

There are questions about where HICA performs its actions. It is taken up by the MCT transporter, so it should be bioavailable orally. Type 2 muscle fibers, or slow-twitch fibers, may take in HICA more readily. This is due to their greater aerobic capacity. Type 2 fibers are packed with mitochondria which use oxygen to create energy. Type 1 or fast-twitch fibers are explosive and burn up pre-made ATP, fatigue, and then create more quickly.
If HICA gets into the muscle cell, it can reduce acid buildup, allowing for longer periods of high-intensity activity before the muscle cell fatigues due to IMP-buildup and decreased acetyl-CoA. Binding ammonia also reduced fatigue and offers a new pool of leucine for muscle repair, and possibly mTOR activation. In the bloodstream, clearing the circulation of waste products (lactate and ammonia) slows the progression of fatigue.
As to how HICA may increase lean mass, it appears to be a function of maintaining the muscle cell in a functioning state by neutralizing the waste products created during high-intensity exercise, and keeping cellular energetic mechanisms functioning during recovery. HICA is likely short-lived in the body, so it would be best taken 20 minutes prior to a workout.

Summary:
HICA is a metabolite of leucine, via KIC. However, leucine supplementation does not elevate blood levels of HICA.
HICA binds H+ (acid) which builds up in the muscle cell as work exceeds the aerobic threshold (e.g. high-intensity lifting, sprinting).
HICA binds ammonia (NH4+) which builds up in the blood and creates fatigue.
HICA can be reaminated, for post-workout recovery and cell-signaling.

[altorn]

Hello, I'm a beginner bodybuilder but I've been working out for 7 months now.
I've gained a lot of weight and upped my weights quite a lot too.
(ex. deads from 110lbs to 255lbs in 6 months, 154lbs bodyweight - 175lbs bodyweight in 7 months)

So far im only taking a weight gainer (mutant mass) as a main "protein supplement",
5g creatine everyday and 5g glutamine 2x a week. Other than that, just food, power bars,
veggies, etc.

I want to try this but I'm concerned about the "do not take with protein" thing.
So if i wanna take this, i have to have an empty stomach right? So how long until i can take
my protein? 1 hour or something?

Currently i have massive DOMS a day after an intense workout. I'm trying to gain muscle
mass so i go heavy(controlled) every workout. So yeah i figure i'd try this because sometimes
the DOMS on my chests/shoulders last for 2-3 days preventing me to do other exercises that may
involve them.

I know some of the stuff i posted may be noobish, pls forgive, i'm just a beginner and im doing as much
research as i go along. thanks a lot for the help!