At the moment Im awful at pull ups, and want to increase the amount I can do. As well as doing negative reps, will dumbbell rows help build up the strength and endurance required to do loads of pull ups?
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03-06-2011, 08:36 AM #1
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03-06-2011, 08:50 AM #2
- Join Date: Dec 2009
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not really, your best bet (outside of just doing pull ups) would be wide grip pull downs
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03-06-2011, 08:51 AM #3
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03-06-2011, 09:08 AM #4
Getting your back and biceps stronger will help you get better at pull ups, as well as maybe dropping a bit of weight. But as everyone is saying to get better at pull ups you gotta do pull ups.
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03-06-2011, 09:51 AM #5
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as long as you are trying to do pullups or the assist pullup machine,anything else couldnt hurt.i do alot of chinups during the week,and on those last few that are hard to do,sometimes i feel my bis bringing me over the bar or my forearms and grip will get me over the bar.sometimes being a little stronger on some other muscles involved will help you get a couple of reps more.
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03-06-2011, 10:01 AM #6
- Join Date: Nov 2010
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I'm just starting out doing chin-ups, which isn't exactly the same... but I started out doing just one at a time between sets of other exercises. I could only do 1 rep at a time.
Then I just kept doing them until failure about once a week. This week I got three sets: 5 reps, 4 reps, and 3 reps.
The answer really is to do pull-ups!
Good luck!Owner, Tank Top Spot
http://www.tanktopspot.com
~Lifter With Arthritis~
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03-06-2011, 10:11 AM #7
Emphasize the eccentric portion of the lift to get stronger on the concentric, meaning, do negatives. Throw yourself up on your bar and lower yourself down slowly. Try to maybe do 20-30 reps over however many sets maybe 3 days a week.
If you finally get to do a few, maybe implement a Grease the Groove technique. If you have a pullup bar in your place, every time you walk under it do as many pullups as you can without going to failure. Do this a few times a day. As long as you don't go to failure, you'll gain some strength and be able to keep doing pullups with the fatigue of going to failure.
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03-06-2011, 10:34 AM #8
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03-06-2011, 02:41 PM #9
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03-06-2011, 06:55 PM #10
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03-06-2011, 08:40 PM #11
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03-06-2011, 11:00 PM #12
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03-06-2011, 11:21 PM #13
No.
Rows pull weight/resistance toward a fixed target (you) generally at a horizontal angle. Pullups pull yourself towards a fixed target generally at a more vertical angle. Different exercises requiring different pulling mechanics.
OP, like stated above, the real secret to improving pullups is to practice them religiously and grind them out, one at a time if you have to. Over time you will improve if you put in the hard work. That's it. No magic or special tricks, only hard work and time.Last edited by SquatTilYouDrop; 03-06-2011 at 11:30 PM.
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03-06-2011, 11:27 PM #14
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03-06-2011, 11:29 PM #15
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03-06-2011, 11:46 PM #16
One thing I do that has made pull ups almost obsolete for me is muscle ups. When you get muscle ups down, pull-ups are something you do after you can't do anymore muscle ups. I wanted to upload a video of me doing muscle ups, but I can't get it to upload? I don't know I will try again later. I like muscle ups. They are cool. After you get to where you can do muscle ups, when I see some guy doing boring ass pull ups, I will work in and do like 8 muscle ups. They usually are just shamed into walking away.
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03-06-2011, 11:52 PM #17
To help your pull ups, I think that pulling very hard up with a kip and a swing is the way to improve. Pull Explosive as high as you can. Try to pull the bar all the way to your hips. EXPLODE for 10 or 15 hard reps, rest a few then 10 or 15 more. I don't like those stagnant slow pull ups, boring. I like to swing and I do muscle ups all the way up. it has really helped my back, grip and core.
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03-07-2011, 12:45 AM #18
Are we trying to develop back muscles here or do circus tricks?
By all means, let's swing and jerk the body up using momentum taking back muscles out in order to get more reps.
How can reducing back muscle activation help produce better back musculature?
I'll take slow controlled weighted pullups which place a premium on lat pulling strength over over wild swinging and numbers any day which don't. The goal is a better back and optimal use of time, not how boring an exercise is or is not.
Weighted "controlled" pullups give your lats the best bang for the buck in my opinion. Other questionable variations may be more fun but not as effective.
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03-07-2011, 02:31 AM #19
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03-07-2011, 03:33 AM #20
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03-07-2011, 06:37 AM #21
So you callin' everyone in here *******s who do exercises dedicated to lat development, brah?
Continue.
Oh and nice thread U started...
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=132409933
Lencho.
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03-07-2011, 06:40 AM #22
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03-07-2011, 06:51 AM #23
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03-07-2011, 06:55 AM #24
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03-07-2011, 07:02 AM #25
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03-07-2011, 07:12 AM #26
1. Whatever you do, don't get frustrated.
2. Just 4 years ago I was only able to do two pullups max.
3. Now I am able to shell out 15 bodyweight pullups with ease, 20 pullups and fatigue sets in.
What I did is emphasize my pull up form even if I only did 2 reps per set. I made pull ups my first exercise every back day. I kept my diet in check. Within 1 month I was doing 6 reps per set. The first time I did 10 reps per set I was on top of the world. Whatever you do Don't Let Frustration Set In! Also do not stray away from form and end up doing those swinging/jerking pull ups you see many people do. I am amazed those guys haven't torn a bicep.
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03-07-2011, 01:54 PM #27
Lets see you do a muscle up. Go ahead and try. no way you can do one. so go ahead and talk dude. Post your video. I would like to see you do one. There is no ****ing way you can do one. After gou get to the point that you can do muscle ups a chin up feels "incomplete." Like sex with out an orgasm. 1 muscle up, for a 200 pound guy is =to 15 strict chinups/pullups. the muscle ups have helped, my back, lats, grip, forearms, triceps, shoulders Pecs and abdominals. I get a ferocious burn in my lats/ back when I do the muscle ups to pull ups. Muscle up is a core/explosive move. My powercleans have gone up 40 pound improvement since I started doing muscle ups and my back/christmas tree looks markedly better. I am going to post some more recent pics and videos of muscleups and powrcleans.
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03-07-2011, 02:33 PM #28
LOL, so progressively adding weight to pullups won't improve one's lats/back either. I've moved well beyond bodyweight manipulation exercises. More of a warm up than anything else.
Eventually all body weight exercises plateau and one needs to add resistance to progress.
Hard to safely add weight/resistance to jerky parlor tricks like muscle ups or kips.
Also you sound very angry for someone 52 years of age. Maybe someone spiked your Viagra with something.
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03-07-2011, 03:02 PM #29
Yes they will, you can row heavy dumbbells for long periods of time under tension, this can strengthen the grip. Especially if you use thick dumbbells or something. Fat gripz ftw
Wrong, too absolute. The benefits are limited so there's criticism of using it for desiring a transfer but 'no' is too dismissive.
Whether it's moving towards you or you towards something is irrelevant. There are bodyweight rows that involve pulling yourself towards something and lat pulldowns that involve pulling something to you, and these would transfer, and so would their counter parts opposite in the open/closed chain dichotomy.
The difference in horizantal/vertical angle is the most significant difference that deserves focus. Another key difference is the range of motion used. Rowing should help with locking out a pull up because it does hit that upper 1/2 range. It doesn't involve pulling the lats down from overhead, that's the key weakness that rows can't significantly help pull ups with, and where moves like pullovers can help, just like pullovers wouldn't significantly help with the lockout.
Ugh actually, terms like 'lockout' are probably confusing since the elbow is bent at the top of a pull... I mean like, the top of the movement, the termination of concentric movement into eccentric lowering. Not the bottom where the elbows are straight/locked.
In line with Epi's point, grip can also be strengthened I guess.
Perhaps not, but is the a significant difference? It's all finger flexion and traction on the wrist joint. I don't see any major difference between that of pull ups, rows or deadlifting, there should be a high rate of transfer.
It'd be different of course if people were doing different stuff like mixed grips, straps, hook grips, or that big overhand flexed-wrist grip people do for muscle ups.
If you have the air space to do them, sure. Some of us just got our girly doorway bars =( Also: do you do muscle-ups with weight? I don't think a guy doing weighted pulls would be shamed if you were doing BW MUs.
A muscle up does require more lat strength than a BW pull up, I'll give you that, but only because you need to generate momentum with it so that you can gain some air time to move your elbows over the bar to do the dipping-like motion.
It's impressive, just like those clapping pull ups that Ross Enamait can do, but I don't think it's a basis on which to insult those people who do solely pull ups with strict form and prefer to increase difficulty via adding weight rather than speed. These are all legitimate forms of training suited to different environments. Weighted pulls are suited to strong bars with low ceilings and accessible weights, explosive airborn pulls are suited to BWish bars with high ceilings and no weights around. In some environments one can clearly do both. Those of us with door bars with low ceilings and 300lb limits are limited from either =P
Hey, that type of ageism is uncalled for, we're better than that, aren't we? You've got legs too big to stoop to insulting people like that =P
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03-07-2011, 04:31 PM #30
Oh geez, You are over analyzing this. The OP simply asked if dumbbell rows will realistically help out in some way towards improving at pullups.
The best real world answer without getting too technical is no. Again, different exercises - different dynamics.
Sure anytime someone moves a dumbbell in someway, it can improve gripping strength but most likely not in a way that may benefit pullup performance.
Hell, I don't even think about grip strength when doing pullups. I use my hands like hooks and pull with the back. Seriously, I see little carry over with your grip theory. Just has never been my experience.
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