Shadar's Informative Links - Share yours as well! *Updated 03-13-11*

[G.W. Hayduke]

reps

[shadar]

reps

lies!

[LouB2010]

what are we talking??? Plain monohydrate or what?? Mixed in water?? I could take this further but i rather not...

Reps for the first person to find a great thread about creatine dosage, or better yet, a single post where someone very intelligently sums up the proper dosage and links to a study or two to back up their points.

The more detailed explanation the better. Bonus points if it includes how creatine actually works as part of the description as well as explains that loading and carbs are not required.

I know I've seen some, but I've never saved a link

[Synapsin]

Reps for the first person to find a great thread about creatine dosage, or better yet, a single post where someone very intelligently sums up the proper dosage and links to a study or two to back up their points.

The more detailed explanation the better. Bonus points if it includes how creatine actually works as part of the description as well as explains that loading and carbs are not required.

I know I've seen some, but I've never saved a link

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...33&postcount=4
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...81&postcount=3

"Based upon some more aggressive washout data, TCr content linearly decreases at a rate of about 0.43 - 0.68 mmol/kg dry mass per day (Hultman, McKenna). Also, let's use the conservative 14-28 elevation rate of 0.43 mmol/kg dry mass per day (Hultman).

mmol == moles/1000; Say you're a 90kg male, dry mass assuming less 77% water content. (Bergström, 1962), 0.68 mmol/kg/day * (90*0.33) = 14.08mmol/day = ~1.84g/day."- Pinch

[EntropyIncrease]

Ok, just making sure! For some reason I was thinking you were supporting Ketogenic diets, lol. I was confused by the link because of that

lol yeah I reread my post and it does sound that way haha. too lazy to go back and change it tho

Reps for the first person to find a great thread about creatine dosage, or better yet, a single post where someone very intelligently sums up the proper dosage and links to a study or two to back up their points.

The more detailed explanation the better. Bonus points if it includes how creatine actually works as part of the description as well as explains that loading and carbs are not required.

I know I've seen some, but I've never saved a link

No, but I got a nice thread about how long creatine stays in your system (with studies of course)

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=131256593

[Histrionics]

Shyte. Thanks for doing this man.

[shadar]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...33&postcount=4
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...81&postcount=3

"Based upon some more aggressive washout data, TCr content linearly decreases at a rate of about 0.43 - 0.68 mmol/kg dry mass per day (Hultman, McKenna). Also, let's use the conservative 14-28 elevation rate of 0.43 mmol/kg dry mass per day (Hultman).

mmol == moles/1000; Say you're a 90kg male, dry mass assuming less 77% water content. (Bergström, 1962), 0.68 mmol/kg/day * (90*0.33) = 14.08mmol/day = ~1.84g/day."- Pinch

Awesome! Nicely done sir Added it at the top of the creatine section.

Shyte. Thanks for doing this man.

I'm just trying to bring a lot of great posts by other intelligent people together in one place. They are the ones who deserve lots of praise for actually posting all this great stuff. I'm just a middle man

[Valenzuelatech]

U just got stickied! (no homo)

Great thread man, it's a great resource for people looking to make smart choices about the ingredients they ingest


Can anyone link me to a discussion on why Micellar Casein alone is a bad idea, I've seen this mentioned a couple times

[Prestonmayne]

go shadar! you got a sticky bro, you deserve it.

[cjwav34]

U just got stickied! (no homo)

Great thread man, it's a great resource for people looking to make smart choices about the ingredients they ingest


Can anyone link me to a discussion on why Micellar Casein alone is a bad idea, I've seen this mentioned a couple times

I don't have a link.
From what I understand casein has more of an anti catabolic effect, while whey is more anabolic. So when you are drinking straight casein you are more or less preserving lean mass opposed to buliding it.
IIRC whey also has a greater effect on protein synteisis opposed to casein. So in theory whey + casein would be superior to straight whey or straight casein.

[cyprus33]

Congrats on the sticky man

[Mr.Cooper69]

great thread so far, links still inc once i finish my loast exam today

[shadar]

U just got stickied! (no homo)

Great thread man, it's a great resource for people looking to make smart choices about the ingredients they ingest


Can anyone link me to a discussion on why Micellar Casein alone is a bad idea, I've seen this mentioned a couple times

Woah, very cool. Didn't think much got stickied these days.

If the first three posts need to be updated in the future, will a mod be able to do that for me? I think the edit ability goes away eventually, right? I'd like to be able to keep the sticky updated at least occasionally.

And I think the idea of casein alone being a bad idea is better stated as being unnecessary, not "bad". If people like casein it won't be bad for them to take it obviously, but it's not a requirement at certain times like some believe (such as pre-bed). This fits generally into AA's nutrient timing rules of:

The First Law of Nutrient Timing is: hitting your daily macronutrient targets is FAR more important than nutrient timing.
The Second Law of Nutrient Timing is: hitting your daily macronutrient targets is FAR more important than nutrient timing.

I don't have a link.
From what I understand casein has more of an anti catabolic effect, while whey is more anabolic. So when you are drinking straight casein you are more or less preserving lean mass opposed to buliding it.
IIRC whey also has a greater effect on protein synteisis opposed to casein. So in theory whey + casein would be superior to straight whey or straight casein.

I do believe this would be more towards Layne's view on it. I know he's not a big casein fan, not that he hates it either though. AA's given a similar description of the two as well, believe it's in one my links actually.

Congrats on the sticky man

go shadar! you got a sticky bro, you deserve it.

Thanks guys

great thread so far, links still inc once i finish my loast exam today

Sounds good, I'll be around again a bit later.

[Hyruliangoat]

U just got stickied! (no homo)

Great thread man, it's a great resource for people looking to make smart choices about the ingredients they ingest


Can anyone link me to a discussion on why Micellar Casein alone is a bad idea, I've seen this mentioned a couple times

Layne rips on it in my amino acid thread!

[shadar]

Bane's ZMA link is dead. Anyone have a good post/thread on it? Similar to what Synapsin posted above for Creatine?

[mikeonopiates]

I think less people will see it if it is stickied, I noticed that I never check the stickies. I think itd be better on the first page, but we will see.

[ricka182]

This thread could answer every question ever asked here at BB.com...


GJSM

[eldawg]

Can anyone link me to a discussion on why Micellar Casein alone is a bad idea, I've seen this mentioned a couple times

I think it comes from a few posts like this one from Des.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...91&postcount=8

[EntropyIncrease]

solid sticky choice

[-kkkd]

does the carb source for creatine absorption have to a simple sugar? or any carb + protein source will do as long as it is high?

[PinchTheBear]

Based upon some more aggressive washout data, TCr content linearly decreases at a rate of about 0.43 - 0.68 mmol/kg dry mass per day (Hultman, McKenna). Also, let's use the conservative 14-28 elevation rate of 0.43 mmol/kg dry mass per day (Hultman).

mmol == moles/1000; Say you're a 90kg male, dry mass assuming less 77% water content. (Bergström, 1962), 0.68 mmol/kg/day * (90*0.33) = 14.08mmol/day = ~1.84g/day.

However, we've all seen this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14971966 regarding PCr.

^^just fixed to give credit to in10city for the first two sentences. And Syn's post- that's the best explanation of creatine's physiological function I've ever seen. gjdm.

[shadar]

does the carb source for creatine absorption have to a simple sugar? or any carb + protein source will do as long as it is high?

It will only make a difference before reaching saturation, once at saturation a carb source will make no difference at all. I also don't believe the GI of the carb source matter much, but I'm sure someone can clarify.

Really you don't need to use carbs anytime, it just slightly speeds up the process, but the difference will be very small in terms of lean mass. Not something worth worrying about imo.

I think it comes from a few posts like this one from Des.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...91&postcount=8

I've seen this post before, but not really seen many others comment on it. Any other thoughts on this?

^^just fixed to give credit to in10city for the first two sentences. And Syn's post- that's the best explanation of creatine's physiological function I've ever seen. gjdm.

Unfortunately my ability to edit my first three posts is now gone. I wish there was a way I could be given unlimited edit-ability of those three posts only.

[TJB85]

Congrats on the sticky dude!

[-kkkd]

It will only make a difference before reaching saturation, once at saturation a carb source will make no difference at all. I also don't believe the GI of the carb source matter much, but I'm sure someone can clarify.

Really you don't need to use carbs anytime, it just slightly speeds up the process, but the difference will be very small in terms of lean mass. Not something worth worrying about imo.




I've seen this post before, but not really seen many others comment on it. Any other thoughts on this?





Unfortunately my ability to edit my first three posts is now gone. I wish there was a way I could be given unlimited edit-ability of those three posts only.

thanks shadar, i may be a non responder and i giving creatine a last try. after watching will brink's video about mixing and the absorption of creatine, the last time i did with creatine was mix 3-5g postworkout or just dump it in my mouth and chase it down with water. will brink says undissolved creatine is not absorbed or something like that. and i really wanted to maximize the absorption of creatine to know whether i am really a non responder or not.

[shadar]

thanks shadar, i may be a non responder and i giving creatine a last try. after watching will brink's video about mixing and the absorption of creatine, the last time i did with creatine was mix 3-5g postworkout or just dump it in my mouth and chase it down with water. will brink says undissolved creatine is not absorbed or something like that. and i really wanted to maximize the absorption of creatine to know whether i am really a non responder or not.

It's people like you that the video is meant for imo. Most do just fine with it just mixed into water/protein/etc. But perhaps some need it more dissolved. Worth a try. Can't hurt to mix it with a little bit of sugar initially I suppose.

[cjwav34]

Unfortunately my ability to edit my first three posts is now gone. I wish there was a way I could be given unlimited edit-ability of those three posts only.

PM a mod, they should be able to edit it.

[ezzzo]

Can anyone link me to a discussion on why Micellar Casein alone is a bad idea, I've seen this mentioned a couple times

And I think the idea of casein alone being a bad idea is better stated as being unnecessary, not "bad". If people like casein it won't be bad for them to take it obviously, but it's not a requirement at certain times like some believe (such as pre-bed).

From the bodybuilding mythbusters thread:

"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21045172

This study showed that immediate responses to whey and casein ingestion were different... But the end result was the same. They both stimulated protein synthesis equally."

-DDon1996

Pretty much what you were saying; casein is certainly not bad, but has no real benefit for the extra cost.

[Valenzuelatech]

Unfortunately my ability to edit my first three posts is now gone. I wish there was a way I could be given unlimited edit-ability of those three posts only.

Just PM me whenever you want to edit the OP

I think it comes from a few posts like this one from Des.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...91&postcount=8

This is pretty interesting along with what you guys have posted.

So generally casein in high doses due to it's coagulation in the gut may be difficult for the body to absorb and for the price, it offers no benefits beyond whey or a blend of whey+casein.

[Valenzuelatech]

Any threads on the best forms of vitamins & minerals?
eg:
Methylcobalamin>Cyanocobalamin
Mineral Chelates>Oxides

[PinchTheBear]

Mineral Chelates>Oxides

Simplified briefly, just so it's here:

• Relatively insoluble mineral oxides generally pass through the digestive system en masse (unchanged) and are excreted. Mineral oxides, however, are polar and can dissolve in gastric acid. The problem with absorption lies in the complicated and extensive in vivo requirements for efficient absorption.
• Soluble mineral salts, once in the gut, can react with negatively charged ions and become insoluble (then excreted), can be absorbed through ion gated channels (e.g. divalent metal transporter, which transports iron along with other divalent, or 2+ charge, minerals: generally inefficient), or can be chelated by carrier proteins, then absorbed highly efficiently and non competitively.
• Chelated minerals can be absorbed through the same transporters used for dipeptides and tripeptides like hydrolyzed whey; therefore, they are extremely efficient and not competitive for specific mineral chelates over others.
• Real mineral chelates are bound by amino acids, specifically by the nitrogens and oxygens donating electrons to the metal. The chelator must be an amino acid, or the compound will behave like a salt (e.g. "Kreb's cycle chelates"), not offering any of the benefits of a real chelate.

Reading:
http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/16/25/18.html
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks..._minerals.html