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  1. #1
    Registered User ppd001's Avatar
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    why we should avoid food containing phytoestrogen...

    i found articles that phytoestrogens found in foods like flax seeds and soy has the potential to decrease testosterone production and decrease prostrate weight..as bodybuilders should we avoid these kins of food?

    http://joe.endocrinology-journals.or...ract/170/3/591

    http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/con.../1692.abstract

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...3&searchtype=a

    i have been a big flax seed fan, i actually have a big bag of ground flax seeds in my pantry. reading these articles makes me think twice of ingesting them again..what is your say on this?
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  2. #2
    Scientist/Wannabe BB wrkoutfrq's Avatar
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    study 1: dosage level was 600 micrograms/gram which = 600 parts per thousand... thats a huge dosage level...
    study 2: infant monkeys do not equal adult male bodbybuilders... not to mention that they described an increase in the number of leydig cells by 70%, which are responsible for testosterone synthesis in the gonadal region
    study 3: again, first thing that stands out is the dosing: 40mg/kg is 40 parts per thousand, which is pretty high. also, the fact that the corticosterone and testosterone levels decreased but the adrenocorticotropic hormone and leuteinizing hormone increased that the the cause of the decrease wasn't phytochemically related but rather stress related, which is known to cause damage to the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis via it's negative feedback loop

    i think people read too much into these studies that focus on rats and other organisms... there are too many confounding variables to really extrapolate anything. do i think these studies are garbage? not necessarily. do i worry about phytoestrogens? nah. do i think it's possible they are causing a significant dose/response dynamic, even in adult bodybuilders? its possible, but we really don't know for sure

    just my 2c
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  3. #3
    is a gentleman matthew3881's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wrkoutfrq View Post
    study 1: dosage level was 600 micrograms/gram which = 600 parts per thousand... thats a huge dosage level...
    study 2: infant monkeys do not equal adult male bodbybuilders... not to mention that they described an increase in the number of leydig cells by 70%, which are responsible for testosterone synthesis in the gonadal region
    study 3: again, first thing that stands out is the dosing: 40mg/kg is 40 parts per thousand, which is pretty high. also, the fact that the corticosterone and testosterone levels decreased but the adrenocorticotropic hormone and leuteinizing hormone increased that the the cause of the decrease wasn't phytochemically related but rather stress related, which is known to cause damage to the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis via it's negative feedback loop

    i think people read too much into these studies that focus on rats and other organisms... there are too many confounding variables to really extrapolate anything. do i think these studies are garbage? not necessarily. do i worry about phytoestrogens? nah. do i think it's possible they are causing a significant dose/response dynamic, even in adult bodybuilders? its possible, but we really don't know for sure

    just my 2c
    exactly right. not too toot my own horn, but go to post #295

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=131171153
    "I wish people trained their brains with the same passion they are training their biceps." - Juliacheh

    "you dont want a lot of simple carbs because it increases estrogen levels in your body. unless you eat them right after you workout. estrogen will quicken the uptake of protein and it repleneshes glycogen levels in your muscles!" -GOMDpls
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  4. #4
    Registered User ppd001's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wrkoutfrq View Post
    study 1: dosage level was 600 micrograms/gram which = 600 parts per thousand... thats a huge dosage level...
    study 2: infant monkeys do not equal adult male bodbybuilders... not to mention that they described an increase in the number of leydig cells by 70%, which are responsible for testosterone synthesis in the gonadal region
    study 3: again, first thing that stands out is the dosing: 40mg/kg is 40 parts per thousand, which is pretty high. also, the fact that the corticosterone and testosterone levels decreased but the adrenocorticotropic hormone and leuteinizing hormone increased that the the cause of the decrease wasn't phytochemically related but rather stress related, which is known to cause damage to the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis via it's negative feedback loop

    i think people read too much into these studies that focus on rats and other organisms... there are too many confounding variables to really extrapolate anything. do i think these studies are garbage? not necessarily. do i worry about phytoestrogens? nah. do i think it's possible they are causing a significant dose/response dynamic, even in adult bodybuilders? its possible, but we really don't know for sure

    just my 2c
    i know. but the fact that is has the potential to do such damage bothers me.. i have been feeling a bit low on sex drive and random erections are gone for a few months now. i'm not saying that phytoestrogen is causing it but it bothers me..

    i looked into the label it says it has 120mg of phytoestrogen i don;t know if that makes a difference or not..
    Last edited by ppd001; 02-15-2011 at 05:39 PM.
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  5. #5
    Scientist/Wannabe BB wrkoutfrq's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by matthew3881 View Post
    exactly right. not too toot my own horn, but go to post #295

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=131171153
    very nice, good find on that meta-analysis

    Originally Posted by ppd001 View Post
    i know. but the fact that is has the potential to do such damage bothers me.. i have been feeling a bit low on sex drive and random erections are gone for a few months now. i'm not saying that phytoestrogen is causing it but it bothers me..

    i looked into the label it says it has 120mg of phytoestrogen i don;t know if that makes a difference or not..
    what does the rest of your diet look like? how much in the way of healthy fats are you eating? what is your current stress level like? activity level? last time you had any type of sexual contact? there are a lot of factors that can play on sex drive and erection frequency.

    also, 120mg of phytoestrogens doesn't necessarily mean that those phytochemicals will be completely absorbed, let alone be at a high enough concentration to have any effect. odds are those estrogenic compounds are going to be at least partially digested into some non-reactive intermediate, and even if not it's a long way from the stomach (pH of ~2) to the gonadal region. i would say not even worry about it, and enjoy those flax seeds
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