Best time to switch to OL?

[spyxter]

Hey,

I got into all this lifting business last fall. Started out with allpro's beginner BB program, but got bored quickly so after a month I 'found' Rip's Starting Strength, which I loved. Fast forward, I got appendicitis in the of November so I effectively restarted fresh this January. So long the gains were steady and kinda satisfying.

On last workout:
Squat - 5x100 kg (kinda deep, I rest on my hams/calves, with heels flat)
Bench - 3x70 kg (my worst lift lol)
Deadlift - 5x110 kg (overhand grip, chalk)

I also attempted to power clean 60 kg. Not sure if the form was correct, but I managed to rack the bar.

The reason I'm writing in this forum is that ever since I tried cleaning I immediately fell in love with it and figured I would love to make my workouts more OL oriented.

So I'm starting to stall with the bench press. There's a guide what to do when stalling on Rip's program; however, this stalling got me thinking. Should I stick with SS till I exhaust 'newbie gains' and then move on another program or should I switch my focus to OL sooner?

[pfffft]

i would continue doing starting strength until you are closer to like a 170kg deadlift, 130kg squat, and 100kg bench. at that point i feel you will have a much better strength base to really benefit the lifts.

what's your height and weight?

[gbg]

Personally I would start as soon as possible, there is much to learn as far as technique goes and your body becoming adjusted to more explosive movements, Really it's up to you, it couldn't hurt to get some strength back first.

[spyxter]

i would continue doing starting strength until you are closer to like a 170kg deadlift, 130kg squat, and 100kg bench. at that point i feel you will have a much better strength base to really benefit the lifts.

Is that for reps or 1RM?

what's your height and weight?

176 cm
71 kg

[pfffft]

1rm


ok, you're still pretty light for 176. youd be stronger and better as a 77 than a 69, so i would continue working on brute strength up to about 77kg and then switch over to the olymmpic lifts

[J.L.C.]

No reason to delay learning technique while you are still developing strength.

Start practicing!

[boykid28]

Is that for reps or 1RM?

176 cm
71 kg

if your 5'9 then your 172. still your the same size as me but you got 1 or 2 inches on me. im considered light for 69 but i dont care. i just lift and eat. you have 2 choices learn now or learn later. u choose if you want to be stronger or not when you learn them. plus, i mean u can always get stronger later too.

[gbg]

No reason to delay learning technique while you are still developing strength.

Start practicing!

This!!!!

[olyw8lifter]

No reason to delay learning technique while you are still developing strength.

Start practicing!

^^^^ This!!! I would start learning now so you don't develop bad habits while strength training. Also, as someone else said, you can always get stronger later on as you're learning the lifts!!

[spyxter]

I already have cleans (5x3 and I add a jerk on last rep) in my routine and a coach in my gym (he's kinda old school). I'm not sure how should I fit in snatches. Isn't it kind of bad to drop a program before finishing it?

[olyw8lifter]

I already have cleans (5x3 and I add a jerk on last rep) in my routine and a coach in my gym (he's kinda old school). I'm not sure how should I fit in snatches. Isn't it kind of bad to drop a program before finishing it?

Generally, I would say yes, BUT Rip's SS program doesn't really have a natural finish to it (just when you stall out). So, in this case, I would say if you think you're ready to learn the snatch, then drop SS and get to work!!

[Torrtrefireto]

Do it before you get too strong and look like some dumb moron humping weights light around


^^^ because thats what happened to me

[spyxter]

Do it before you get too strong and look like some dumb moron humping weights light around


^^^ because thats what happened to me

lol
Why do you care how you look training? Bodybuilder tendencies? j/k

[spyxter]

Any examples of beginners OL routine?

[gbg]

Any examples of beginners OL routine?

http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength...es/cissek1.htm

[J.L.C.]

http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength...es/cissek1.htm

5 days a week for a beginner?

[gbg]

5 days a week for a beginner?

It depends, Eric said that some beginners this is fine because their strength so greatly surpasses their skill. Because of this they cannot perform much volume in an individual session because their skills start to deteriorate quickly and this is the worst time to allow anything like sloppy technique. If they have a good tolerance for training volume they should take advantage of it by practicing the skills as much as they can. So splitting up three longer sessions into five shorter sessions can have its advantages.

[ProfDrBeareagle]

Do it before you get too strong and look like some dumb moron humping weights light around


^^^ because thats what happened to me

No, get strong first so that you don't end up being one of those oly lifters who is eternally stuck lifting 70/100 while worrying way too much about technique.

[gbg]

No, get strong first so that you don't end up being one of those oly lifters who is eternally stuck lifting 70/100 while worrying way too much about technique.

Technique always comes first in Olympic lifting, there's no such thing as worrying to much about technique.

[raffiki]

Multiply at 308
Squat - 960
Bench - 680
Deadlift - 610

Take advise from this guy on weightlifting!

You can keep running SS for squats. Just work on snatches and cleans first in the workout. There is a sticky at the top where I have some exercises that can help you learn to lift on your own. Go slower and light with them to get a feel for proper positions. Once your technique gets decent then you can start going heavier.

[someonefat]

I think you could probably get away with doing a lot of volume since your technique will be bad and you will be unable to lift very heavy weights to fatigue yourself very much. So I would just start doing snatches and cleans daily don't go above 5 reps and do as many sets until start to feel form breakdown a lot. Start adding front squats also along with back squats but alternate them.

Don't try to put a lot of weight on the bar at first, do a weight you can comfortably do with proper speed and technique without having to 'muscle' the weight up.

Post up a video when you can of technique on clean and snatch to get good feedback to work on technique. Some common mistakes are initiating with upper body for start pull, not extending fully with hips, not keep arms long, not keeping chest up ext.

You'll be surprised how quickly you pick up the movement once you start doing it daily, sure you will have little things wrong with technique that become much more apparent with heavier weights but the myth it takes years to learn how to do a decent snatch or clean is false. After a month you'll notice a big difference.

Also you will still improve your overall strength adding the oly lifts so don't fear to much about that. I would focus more on overhead presses then bench press though as it has a lot more carryover to both lifts. For deadlifts that should be fine now but as you get more advanced with the lifts I would focus more on heavy snatch high pulls and clean high pulls. Along with doing the lifts your back will get a good workout.

[ProfDrBeareagle]

Technique always comes first in Olympic lifting, there's no such thing as worrying to much about technique.

Last I checked, OL was a strength sport, not a technique sport. The person who lifts the most weight wins, not the person who has the nicest technique.

While it's true that you need good technique to lift efficiently, there are in my opinion way too many amateur weightlifters who spend way too much time obsessing about technique and not enough time getting stronger.

[ProfDrBeareagle]

Take advise from this guy on weightlifting!

You can keep running SS for squats. Just work on snatches and cleans first in the workout. There is a sticky at the top where I have some exercises that can help you learn to lift on your own. Go slower and light with them to get a feel for proper positions. Once your technique gets decent then you can start going heavier.

herp derp, I was a weightlifter before I got into powerlifting.

[gbg]

herp derp, I was a weightlifter before I got into powerlifting.

So why you giving lousy advice?

[gbg]

Last I checked, OL was a strength sport, not a technique sport. The person who lifts the most weight wins, not the person who has the nicest technique.

While it's true that you need good technique to lift efficiently, there are in my opinion way too many amateur weightlifters who spend way too much time obsessing about technique and not enough time getting stronger.

And, of course, strength without technique = injury or missed lift.

Strength without skill is as useless as skill without strength.

Stick to the over 35 forum.

[someonefat]

Last I checked, OL was a strength sport, not a technique sport. The person who lifts the most weight wins, not the person who has the nicest technique.

While it's true that you need good technique to lift efficiently, there are in my opinion way too many amateur weightlifters who spend way too much time obsessing about technique and not enough time getting stronger.

1. technique is very important

2. There is no point continuing to just work powerlifting movements when your goal in future is get better at oly lifts. The sooner he starts working the oly lifts he will get better at them and can start pushing hw weights to improve his strength. He can still improve his strength in squats and such working the oly lifts.

Practice like in any sport is the best way to get good at it, no different then the oly lifts. He needs to start doing them as soon as possible and as often as possible.

[ProfDrBeareagle]

So why you giving lousy advice?

And, of course, strength without technique = injury or missed lift.

Strength without skill is as useless as skill without strength.

Stick to the over 35 forum.

Please get off your high horse. Your condescending attitude is annoying to say the least, and it's especially ridiculous in this situation because you're not in any position of authority, since you've never achieved anything significant lifting or coaching wise.

Just because you disagree with someone does not mean you instantly have to flame them.

1. technique is very important

2. There is no point continuing to just work powerlifting movements when your goal in future is get better at oly lifts. The sooner he starts working the oly lifts he will get better at them and can start pushing hw weights to improve his strength. He can still improve his strength in squats and such working the oly lifts.

Practice like in any sport is the best way to get good at it, no different then the oly lifts. He needs to start doing them as soon as possible and as often as possible.

Absolutely, there is no point in getting stronger. At all. Olympic lifts are great for displaying strength and power, they are crap for building strength. It's very difficult to build your strength in the squat and other strength lifts while maintaining adequate volume and "pushing heavy weight" in the oly lifts. Since he's still a relatively weak beginner and still has a lot of newbie gains left he'd be best off getting as strong as feasible right now.

[gbg]

Please get off your high horse. Your condescending attitude is annoying to say the least, and it's especially ridiculous in this situation because you're not in any position of authority, since you've never achieved anything significant lifting or coaching wise.

Just because you disagree with someone does not mean you instantly have to flame them.



Absolutely, there is no point in getting stronger. At all. Olympic lifts are great for displaying strength and power, they are crap for building strength. It's very difficult to build your strength in the squat and other strength lifts while maintaining adequate volume and "pushing heavy weight" in the oly lifts. Since he's still a relatively weak beginner and still has a lot of newbie gains left he'd be best off getting as strong as feasible right now.

Actually I am. My coach has over 20 years experience in Olympic lifting. Who are you? and what have you accomplished in Olympic lifting?

[Iberian80]

Olympic lifts are great for displaying strength and power, they are crap for building strength.

I am not sure I understand how you came to this conclusion. The Bulgarian system produces some exceptionally strong individuals and is almost exclusively olypmic lifts at heavy weight. Even the Russian system with its more varied approach is still mostly based on olympic lifts.

An established olympic lifter converting to powerlifting has a much better chance than an established powerlifter converting to olympic lifting. The strength gains from olympic lifting are great, the speed gains unmatched. The fact that thousands of olypmic lifters have become insanely strong on olympic lifting programs tells me the lifts aren't crap for building strength.

It isn't the programs fault there are bad olympic lifters, it is the lifters fault.

[gbg]

Please get off your high horse. Your condescending attitude is annoying to say the least, and it's especially ridiculous in this situation because you're not in any position of authority, since you've never achieved anything significant lifting or coaching wise.

Just because you disagree with someone does not mean you instantly have to flame them.



Absolutely, there is no point in getting stronger. At all. Olympic lifts are great for displaying strength and power, they are crap for building strength. It's very difficult to build your strength in the squat and other strength lifts while maintaining adequate volume and "pushing heavy weight" in the oly lifts. Since he's still a relatively weak beginner and still has a lot of newbie gains left he'd be best off getting as strong as feasible right now.

You said Olympic lifting is a strength sport. To develop the Olympic lifts requires strength. Of course, you cannot do this without practicing the Olympic lifts.

You say the squat and other strength lifts. Assuming that the Olympic lifts are strength lifts how do you build your strength in them without practicing them? Particularly when some training programs call for little other than the Olympic lifts and front or back squatting? Back squatting alone does not give you the strength to put heavy weight over your head.