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  1. #1
    Registered User donazsan's Avatar
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    Growth hormones: Tabata vs. Squats and Deadlifts

    What I am after is, figuring out which exercises most benefit HGH secretion with regards to gaining muscle better as well as burning fat through enhanced metabolism.

    I am not sure if this has been heavily debated before, but here goes. I have heard quite a few people say that squats and deadlifts (besides the obvious benefits) additionally stimulate growth hormone secretion.

    Now, my question is though, if this is really the case, then under which circumstances? Is this true for both deadlifts and squats? Is it only the case when doing low rep and heavy weight, say <5 reps, or is it just about them being compound movements?

    Also, as also recently discussed by Mercola, the tabata method seems to be quite popularized for its 'afterburn effect' due to increased HGH secretion during the 48 hours after the workout. Although Mercola proposes 30 sec intense, 90 sec rest and Tabata proposes 20 sec intense, 10 sec rest I will go ahead and assume it's similar, as it mainly comes down to training above lactate threshold level.

    I have only 'heard' about this stuff so far and was wondering if anybody knows the distinctions or tradeoffs among the methods. I love my heavy squats and deadlifts, but was recently asking myself again WHY (except for getting gigantic legs)? Because of the HGH and benefits for ramping up metabolism...or would Tabata-style workouts be more focused towards fat-burning, or both similarlly effective?

    Thanks guys. This is my first post.

    P.S. I have never had any problems keeping my body fat% down or putting on muscle mass, but I just want to ask the WHY question again for my own clarification.
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  2. #2
    Encyclochuzzle chazzy1864's Avatar
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    Your best bet, is to stop worrying about f*cking growth hormones and do the exercises for the muscles they target. If you aren't trying to work your legs, low back, glutes, etc, then don't do these exercises.

    Yes, squats and deadlifts have a relatively decent release. You know what else does? Every exercise does. Yes, squats and deads have the highest amount, yet it is negligible compared to bench press, military press, rows, pull ups, etc. Compounds aren’t the only ones, isolations do too. Hell, getting aroused releases testosterone. Healthy fats do too. As does sleeping, and so does fasting.

    When It comes to working out, studies have shown that rest periods had a larger effect on any release than the exercise selection itself. Keep rest periods shorter had larger releases than longer rest periods. What sort of rest periods do most people use with squats and deads? Let me guess.....2+ minutes? yeah...so you are negating the benefit there.

    One more thing, studies shown that after about 10 weeks of steady training, any benefit you received, from trying to tailor your rest periods for maximum release, was undone as your body adapted.

    Moral of the story? Train body parts so that those particular body parts grow. Do not train your calf to have your traps grow. Use the rest period that best fits your routine. Don't give two ****s to the test or GH release. Talking about that, helps CSCS's sell their training books to newbies, who will then go on about how compound only workouts are the best for everything. I know, I was one of those lemmings for awhile.


    Originally Posted by iSkinny View Post
    I saw what you posted Chaz, and thought It would be intresting to have a little look on pubmed to see what I could find:


    J Strength Cond Res. 2009 Jan;23(1):62-71

    The effect of resistive exercise rest interval on hormonal response, strength, and hypertrophy with training.

    Buresh R, Berg K, French J.

    The purpose of this study was to compare the effects of different between-set rest periods (1 and 2.5 minutes) on changes in hormone response, strength, arm cross-sectional area (CSA), thigh muscular cross-sectional area (MCSA), and body composition during a 10-week training period. Twelve untrained males (24.8 +/- 5.9 years) engaged in resistance training using either 1 minute (short rest [SR], n = 6) or 2.5 minutes (long rest [LR], n = 6) of rest between sets, with a load that elicited failure on the third set of each exercise. Body composition, thigh MCSA, arm CSA, and five-repetition maximum (RM) squat and bench press were assessed before and after training. Blood samples were collected after exercise in weeks 1, 5, and 10. In week 1, postexercise plasma testosterone levels were greater in SR (0.41 +/- 0.17 mmolxL) than in LR (0.24 +/- 0.06 mmol x L, p < 0.05), and postexercise cortisol levels were greater in SR (963 +/- 313 mmol x L) than in LR (629 +/- 127 mmol x L, p < 0.05). Week 1 postexercise GH levels were not different (p = 0.28). The differences between hormone levels in weeks 5 and 10 were not significant. Arm CSA increased more with LR (12.3 +/- 7.2%) than with SR (5.1 +/- 2.9%, p < 0.05). There were no differences in strength increases. These results show that in healthy, recently untrained males, strength training with 1 minute of rest between sets elicits a greater hormonal response than 2.5-minute rest intervals in the first week of training, but these differences diminish by week 5 and disappear by week 10 of training. Furthermore, the hormonal response is highly variable and may not necessarily be predictive of strength and lean tissue gains in a 10-week training program.




    Strength Cond Res. 2005 Aug;19(3):572-82.

    Short vs. long rest period between the sets in hypertrophic resistance training: influence on muscle strength, size, and hormonal adaptations in trained men.

    Ahtiainen JP, Pakarinen A, Alen M, Kraemer WJ, H?kkinen K.

    Acute and long-term hormonal and neuromuscular adaptations to hypertrophic strength training were studied in 13 recreationally strength-trained men. The experimental design comprised a 6-month hypertrophic strength-training period including 2 separate 3-month training periods with the crossover design, a training protocol of short rest (SR, 2 minutes) as compared with long rest (LR, 5 minutes) between the sets. Basal hormonal concentrations of serum total testosterone (T), free testosterone (FT), and cortisol (C), maximal isometric strength of the leg extensors, right leg 1 repetition maximum (1RM), dietary analysis, and muscle cross-sectional area (CSA) of the quadriceps femoris by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) were measured at months 0, 3, and 6. The 2 hypertrophic training protocols used in training for the leg extensors (leg presses and squats with 10RM sets) were also examined in the laboratory conditions at months 0, 3, and 6. The exercise protocols were similar with regard to the total volume of work (loads x sets x reps), but differed with regard to the intensity and the length of rest between the sets (higher intensity and longer rest of 5 minutes vs. somewhat lower intensity but shorter rest of 2 minutes). Before and immediately after the protocols, maximal isometric force and electromyographic (EMG) activity of the leg extensors were measured and blood samples were drawn for determination of serum T, FT, C, and growth hormone (GH) concentrations and blood lactate. Both protocols before the experimental training period (month 0) led to large acute increases (p < 0.05-0.001) in serum T, FT, C , and GH concentrations, as well as to large acute decreases (p < 0.05-0.001) in maximal isometric force and EMG activity. However, no significant differences were observed between the protocols. Significant increases of 7% in maximal isometric force, 16% in the right leg 1RM, and 4% in the muscle CSA of the quadriceps femoris were observed during the 6-month strength-training period. However, both 3-month training periods performed with either the longer or the shorter rest periods between the sets resulted in similar gains in muscle mass and strength. No statistically significant changes were observed in basal hormone concentrations or in the profiles of acute hormonal responses during the entire 6-month experimental training period. The present study indicated that, within typical hypertrophic strength-training protocols used in the present study, the length of the recovery times between the sets (2 vs. 5 minutes) did not have an influence on the magnitude of acute hormonal and neuromuscular responses or long-term training adaptations in muscle strength and mass in previously strength-trained men.




    J Sci Med Sport. 2007 Dec 17.

    Effects of rest duration between sets of resistance training on acute hormonal responses in trained women.

    Bottaro M, Martins B, Gentil P, Wagner D.

    This study investigated the acute hormonal response to three different rest periods between sets of a traditional lower body resistance training session in young women. Twelve healthy trained females (26.83+/-3.93 years) participated in the study. On three separate sessions of a lower body resistance exercise protocol, subjects were assigned in a random order a rest interval of 30s (P30), 60s (P60) or 120s (P120) between sets. The resistance exercise session consisted of four lower body exercises with three sets performed until contractile failure using 10-repetition maximum (RM) load. Blood samples were drawn for determination of serum growth hormone (GH) and cortisol concentrations before exercise (T0), immediately after each training session (T1), and after 5min (T5), 15min (T15), and 30min (T30) of recovery. Statistical evaluation of the area under the time-concentration relationship for GH (GHauc) and for cortisol (Cauc) were analyzed using a one-way ANOVA There were no differences among protocols (P30, P60 and P120) in the serum GH and cortisol concentrations at baseline (T0). However, as compared to T0, all protocols led to acute increases (p<0.05) in serum GH concentrations after each training session. The GHauc was greater for P30 than for both P60 and P120, however, there were no differences between P60 and P120. The Cauc were not different among protocols. Thus, the magnitude of acute GH responses in previously strength-trained women appears greater with a 30-s rest interval between sets compared to longer rest periods of 60- or 120-s.




    I found something interesting while I was looking around on pubmed, which I have noticed alot of experienced lifters on these forums do:



    J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2003 Jun;43(2):243-9.

    A single set of low intensity resistance exercise immediately following high intensity resistance exercise stimulates growth hormone secretion in men.

    Goto K, Sato K, Takamatsu K.

    AIM: The purpose of the present study was to examine the effects of an additional set immediately following high intensity resistance exercise on growth hormone (GH) response. METHODS: Subjects (n=8) performed 4 resistance exercise protocols (bilateral knee extension exercise) on separate days. The protocols were categorized into 2 types of protocol, namely "Strength-up type (S-type)" and "Combination type (Combi-type)". The S-type was resistance exercise which consisted of 5 sets at 90% of 1 repetition maximum (RM) with 3-min rest periods between sets, whereas the Combi-type is a training protocol which adds an additional set (either 50% of 1 RM [C50-type], 70% of 1 RM [C70-type] or 90% of 1 RM [C90-type]) to the S-type. Serum GH concentration and blood lactate concentration were determined pre-exercise and at 0-60 min postexercise. Relative changes in thigh girth and maximal unilateral isometric strength were determined pre-exercise and immediately postexercise. RESULTS: The increasing values of GH concentration (DGH) in the S-type was the lowest of all protocols. On the other hand, DGH in the C50-type showed a significantly (p<0.05) higher increase than in the S-type and C90-type, and a relatively higher increase than in the C70-type. CONCLUSION: These results suggests that a high intensity, low volume training protocol to induce neural adaptation resulted in little GH response, but GH secretion was increased by performing a single set of low intensity resistance exercise at the end of a series of high intensity resistance sets.
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  3. #3
    Encyclochuzzle chazzy1864's Avatar
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    If you want to read more on this:
    http://anthonycolpo.com/?p=162

    If you don't feel like reading the whole article:
    Conclusion

    Don’t waste your time chasing GH spikes during and after your workouts. The evidence overwhelmingly indicates that workout-induced hormone spikes have no effect on muscle growth and strength gains. Focus instead on optimizing far more important training variables such as volume, frequency and exercise selection.

    Stay tuned for part 2, where we’ll destroy another laughable low-carb myth, that of wonderfully high GH output as a result of carbohydrate restriction.
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  4. #4
    The BACKMAN DJAuto's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chazzy1864 View Post
    Your best bet, is to stop worrying about f*cking growth hormones and do the exercises for the muscles they target.
    Originally Posted by chazzy1864 View Post
    Don’t waste your time chasing GH spikes during and after your workouts.
    This.

    Individuals who focus heavily on such small issues rarely witness gains or progression.
    Bodybuilding is 60% training and 50% diet. Yes that adds up to 110%, because that's what you should be giving it. Change the inside, and the physique will follow.
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  5. #5
    Registered User donazsan's Avatar
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    Great, that's what I was looking for. Some studies and not anecdotal bs.
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  6. #6
    Minister for Propoganda gomez26's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by donazsan View Post
    Also, as also recently discussed by Mercola....
    do ur self a favor & distance urself from mercola as much as possible.. the guy is wacko who has been thrown off the medical register. i know a guy who fanatically believes in everything mercola says & u guessed it, he's a wacko too.
    Nothing Exceeds Like Excess

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  7. #7
    u 'mirin teh Delts? genepool's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gomez26 View Post
    do ur self a favor & distance urself from mercola as much as possible.. the guy is wacko who has been thrown off the medical register. i know a guy who fanatically believes in everything mercola says & u guessed it, he's a wacko too.
    Great answers and studies posted above



    And if I could rep u 50x for this post I would. Mercola is a moron of epic proportions. I hear his name and I gag.
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  8. #8
    Registered User jgreystoke's Avatar
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    Since fasting and sleep are among the best HGH releasers, just go to bed and don't eat for ages........

    .......and end up weak and emaciated.

    Stop worrying. Just lift and eat.
    Old Man Strength:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=148519323&page=16

    Novices:

    http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/the-young-skinny-training-with-add-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-gaining-mass-and-strength/

    Beyond novice:

    Jim Wendler's 5 3 1(has bodybuilding templates)
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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by donazsan View Post
    as also recently discussed by Mercola, the tabata method seems to be quite popularized for its 'afterburn effect' due to increased HGH secretion during the 48 hours after the workout. Although Mercola proposes 30 sec intense, 90 sec rest and Tabata proposes 20 sec intense, 10 sec rest I will go ahead and assume it's similar, as it mainly comes down to training above lactate threshold level..
    BRB practicing my emotional freedom techniques

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  10. #10
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    One...
    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

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  11. #11
    I'll Rest When I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gomez26 View Post
    do ur self a favor & distance urself from mercola as much as possible.. the guy is wacko who has been thrown off the medical register. i know a guy who fanatically believes in everything mercola says & u guessed it, he's a wacko too.
    ^^^^This. The guy is considered a QUACK by the medical community. FDA has been on him for years.

    I pulled this up in about 2 seconds:

    http://www.quackwatch.com/search/web...&query=mercola
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

    "The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon

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  12. #12
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