Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss - Part Two

[MazzaG]

Is there a definite benefit to having more calories on work out days and slightly less on non workout days? (While bulking on IF).

At the moment I am just eating the same calories within an 8 hour window regardless if it is a workout day or not. I am only 2 days into my bulk so obviously I can't use any personal progress as a guidance.

To me all it seems to do is put you in a smaller calorie surplus over the space of the week. Does it really affect body composition/fat gains?

A lot of people say IF is just an eating window, so why advocate varying level of calories on certain days?

[tagan1]

i do

day 1: back + bicep
day 2: chest + tricep
day 3: leg + calf
day 4: shoulder + abs
day 5: rest

and repeat

is it ok to do this with IF?

[vitornoob]

i do

day 1: back + bicep
day 2: chest + tricep
day 3: leg + calf
day 4: shoulder + abs
day 5: rest

and repeat

is it ok to do this with IF?

why would not be? lol


btw, you may change your workout routine, it is suboptimal

[jimsmith9999]

Is there a definite benefit to having more calories on work out days and slightly less on non workout days? (While bulking on IF).

At the moment I am just eating the same calories within an 8 hour window regardless if it is a workout day or not. I am only 2 days into my bulk so obviously I can't use any personal progress as a guidance.

To me all it seems to do is put you in a smaller calorie surplus over the space of the week. Does it really affect body composition/fat gains?

A lot of people say IF is just an eating window, so why advocate varying level of calories on certain days?

Misinformation/misunderstanding IMHO. Leangains as written is Martins system for recomping lean people. His goal with cycling calories and macros is to try and leverage this. People then take this very specific approach (which is actually not even the same as how Martin does it with his clients) and apply it to all different scenarios and different body composition levels assuming that it is needed.

Whether or not there is a benefit - I'm not sure - I just eat the same calories daily. If there is, it's not going to be specific to IF. I suspect that overall calories over time is what matters though.

[neddo]

Misinformation/misunderstanding IMHO. Leangains as written is Martins system for recomping lean people. His goal with cycling calories and macros is to try and leverage this. People then take this very specific approach (which is actually not even the same as how Martin does it with his clients) and apply it to all different scenarios and different body composition levels assuming that it is needed.

Whether or not there is a benefit - I'm not sure - I just eat the same calories daily. If there is, it's not going to be specific to IF. I suspect that overall calories over time is what matters though.

You can, and will be, continually raped by me.

Great response, especially the closer.

edit: After R/C, apparently

[OoChadwickoO]

Alright guys so im looking to bulk to 180 with leangains, and i have read the ealry morning training method so i will be doing it like this

7 Am: Pre workout C4
730-900am: 10G BCAA
11-12: 10g BCAA
130: Biggest meal
530: Second meal
9: Third meal
10: sleep and repeat
I just wanted to know how would muscle gain be with that long wait inbetween a meal and trainin, as long as i hit my macros?

[Dannybee123]

Can coke zero/green tea effect IF in any way? I've been having at least 10 cans of coke zero and a ton of green tea during my fast.

10 Cans??? Holy shiyite dude!!!

[Gabriel Anton]

10 Cans??? Holy shiyite dude!!!

Easy to do,
If I bring a 2 liter home of soda, it's usually gone within the day.

This is why I stopped buying it

[apace]

any good supplements worth taking on if to increase muscle mass
I was thinking of trying 1 of the following :
APE
BIOFORGE
TEST FREAK
TRIAZOLE
anyone had good progress with any of these ?

[jimsmith9999]

Alright guys so im looking to bulk to 180 with leangains, and i have read the ealry morning training method so i will be doing it like this

7 Am: Pre workout C4
730-900am: 10G BCAA
11-12: 10g BCAA
130: Biggest meal
530: Second meal
9: Third meal
10: sleep and repeat
I just wanted to know how would muscle gain be with that long wait inbetween a meal and trainin, as long as i hit my macros?

Won't make a material difference. Calories and macros over the day are what matters. Read Alan Aragons sticky on nutrient timing.

[jimsmith9999]

any good supplements worth taking on if to increase muscle mass
I was thinking of trying 1 of the following :
APE
BIOFORGE
TEST FREAK
TRIAZOLE
anyone had good progress with any of these ?

Might have better luck asking this on the supplement form. I did try Bioforge about three years ago, it didn't do anything for me.

[neddo]

any good supplements worth taking on if to increase muscle mass
I was thinking of trying 1 of the following :
APE
BIOFORGE
TEST FREAK
TRIAZOLE
anyone had good progress with any of these ?

Triazole will be the most useful of the group as it's an AI (aromotase inhibitor). Bioforge v2 (note, not the version the above user has run) is also great, and Bioforge Promax is an amazing recomp supplement in that forskolin works wonders + I3C iirc.

I've run TZ (currently stacking with Bioforge v2, 3 weeks in 2 bottles of each) and also Promax (2 bottles with Genomyx DCP) and will continue to do so as they are amazing in and of themselves. TZ is the best standalone, if you don't want to stack, IME.

[OoChadwickoO]

So you guys say its perfectly fine to fast for an extra 5 hours after my workout you think better results would come with a post workout meal during a bulk? I am having 20 g Bcaa during the morning. Just want to make sure I'm not messing up waiting to eat when I am able to eat post workout I jsist enjoy the morning workout

[Maxmonzter]

i wanna know about refeeds? what are the benefits? i have been doing just a cheat day every other weekend

[jimsmith9999]

i wanna know about refeeds? what are the benefits? i have been doing just a cheat day every other weekend

Discussed in depth here:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...ng-part-2.html

I highly recommend reading part 1 first though (linked at the top of part 2)

[mispeled]

Hey guys,
How flexible are my windows and IF generally? Right now I eat from Noon to 8pm, more or less. I have finals over the next two weeks, specifically 3 days where I have 4 hour finals.

Two of them are 9am-noon, with another one being from 1-4. Thoughts on how to best take those while on IF? I do not want to be distracted by hunger during the test, and I definitely don't want to be eating 2000 calories during the test either. Should I just skip IF for those 3 days?

Thanks.

[determined4000]

Hey guys,
How flexible are my windows and IF generally? Right now I eat from Noon to 8pm, more or less. I have finals over the next two weeks, specifically 3 days where I have 4 hour finals.

Two of them are 9am-noon, with another one being from 1-4. Thoughts on how to best take those while on IF? I do not want to be distracted by hunger during the test, and I definitely don't want to be eating 2000 calories during the test either. Should I just skip IF for those 3 days?

Thanks.

adjust window as needed
a few days wont change anything

[Mackan58]

Hey guys,
How flexible are my windows and IF generally? Right now I eat from Noon to 8pm, more or less. I have finals over the next two weeks, specifically 3 days where I have 4 hour finals.

Two of them are 9am-noon, with another one being from 1-4. Thoughts on how to best take those while on IF? I do not want to be distracted by hunger during the test, and I definitely don't want to be eating 2000 calories during the test either. Should I just skip IF for those 3 days?

Thanks.

I adjust my window according to my ordinary schedule.

Your tests are more important than the eventual few grams of fat that you might or might not put on. A few days won't screw anything up. The testresults will be more substantial than a few days ill timed feeding!

[mrdot]

does anyone else get bloated as **** after eating there biggest meal? i'll look lean as fuarkkk then when i come home and eat my post workout meal which is ~1000 cals i look soooo bloated

[Kiwi_Fella]

For those of you hitting plateauing, try shortening your feeding time. I used to do 12-8, shortened it to 12-6 and I'm looking leaner and lifting more weights than before

[mrdot]

For those of you hitting plateauing, try shortening your feeding time. I used to do 12-8, shortened it to 12-6 and I'm looking leaner and lifting more weights than before

Yeah, im doing 4-8 now and its working pretty well

[Schultzy85]

Ok, so I've just started out on IF, I've read a bit on leangains but would appreciate any advice the bb.com community cares to give. I want to cut to begin with, here is my calculated macros:





So, I'll try to do this in cliffs:

- Currently running 5/3/1, max lifts in sig (inb4 SS/SL, I like 5/3/1....)
- Weigh about 86kg, looking to get down to about 6kg
- Planned meal timings are 1.00PM, 5.30-6.00PM and 8.30PM
- Training day meals as follows
- Post Workout Meal: Shake including protein and fast carbs followed by a meal, totalling 100P/180C/40F
- Afternoon Meal: Food totalling 50P/50C/40F
- Night Meal: Food totalling 35P/40C/40F
- Non-training day:
- Break Fast Meal: Food and/or shake totalling 100P/100C/30F
- Afternoon Meal: Food totalling 50P/50C/30F
- Night Meal: Food totalling 35P/40C/30F

Questions:
- Pre workout I will be taking Xtend (around 10g BCAA's as suggested) and also my PWO, Super Pump Max. Super Pump has about 3g carbs. This all ok?
- I always feel I need some quick carbs in my post workout shake (or I go hunting for junk), so there is about 80g carbs in that. This ok or should I try and stick with slow carbs?
- In my pre workout shake I'm going with 25g of Casein and 25g of a whey blend. Wanting to get a mix of proteins in there and eating 100g of protein for lunch seems a bit much. This good?
- Are macro splits by the calculator ok? Fats seem high on training day, but I'm not an expert. Is the carb/fat split optimal (i.e. 50/50, 50/50)?
- Activity level in Macro calculator, I work a desk job but am on my feet a lot of the day. Also wasn't sure whether this was supposed to allow for training. I train pretty hard minimum 4 times a week and try and get a bit of cardio in there as well. This ok?

Appreciate any input on my questions above or any other component.

[vitornoob]

So, I'll try to do this in cliffs:

- Currently running 5/3/1, max lifts in sig (inb4 SS/SL, I like 5/3/1....)
What are your currently lifts?
- Weigh about 86kg, looking to get down to about 6kg
- Planned meal timings are 1.00PM, 5.30-6.00PM and 8.30PM
Meal timing does not matter for bodycomposition
- Training day meals as follows
- Post Workout Meal: Shake including protein and fast carbs followed by a meal, totalling 100P/180C/40F
Why having a shake?
- Afternoon Meal: Food totalling 50P/50C/40F
- Night Meal: Food totalling 35P/40C/40F
- Non-training day:
- Break Fast Meal: Food and/or shake totalling 100P/100C/30F
- Afternoon Meal: Food totalling 50P/50C/30F
- Night Meal: Food totalling 35P/40C/30F

does not matter how much and when you have, just eat!

Questions:
- Pre workout I will be taking Xtend (around 10g BCAA's as suggested) and also my PWO, Super Pump Max. Super Pump has about 3g carbs. This all ok?
You know that you don't need to workout fasted, right?
FYI, even BCAAs have calories, something like 3~6kcal per gram
- I always feel I need some quick carbs in my post workout shake (or I go hunting for junk), so there is about 80g carbs in that. This ok or should I try and stick with slow carbs?
No, you don't need any fast acting carbs post workout, this is bs, pls read: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=123915821
- In my pre workout shake I'm going with 25g of Casein and 25g of a whey blend. Wanting to get a mix of proteins in there and eating 100g of protein for lunch seems a bit much. This good?
Wait, are you working out fasted or not? if you have 25g Casein and 25g Whey you are no way working out fasted
there is no limit to protein, I eat 140~150g in one sitting on rest days for breakfast..nhomomomo...oh and no protein shakes

pls read: http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...a-single-meal/

- Are macro splits by the calculator ok? Fats seem high on training day, but I'm not an expert. Is the carb/fat split optimal (i.e. 50/50, 50/50)?
You should not be using splits to calculate fat, fat is a necessary macro, and should be counted according to your lbm, I suggest using 0.35~0.4g/lbs

- Activity level in Macro calculator, I work a desk job but am on my feet a lot of the day. Also wasn't sure whether this was supposed to allow for training. I train pretty hard minimum 4 times a week and try and get a bit of cardio in there as well. This ok?
If you add cardio, up the calories

Appreciate any input on my questions above or any other component.

please, read the bold !!

For those of you hitting plateauing, try shortening your feeding time. I used to do 12-8, shortened it to 12-6 and I'm looking leaner and lifting more weights than before

lol que? what is your logic behind this?

[Schultzy85]

Thanks for your input. Comments as follows:

- Lifts are 122.5kgx5/80kgx2/185kgx1.... Bench is seriously lagging...
- Shake is just to make life a bit easier. It is post workout (preworkout was an error on my part). Any issue with keeping the fast carbs in there though?
- Working out fasted is just as per one of the leangains recommended programs, and works for me, I train at 12 and 1-9PM seems like a good eating window.

Cheers for your input and links!!!

[vitornoob]

Thanks for your input. Comments as follows:

- Lifts are 122.5kgx5/80kgx2/185kgx1.... Bench is seriously lagging...
Nah, you can follow 5/3/1
- Shake is just to make life a bit easier. It is post workout (preworkout was an error on my part). Any issue with keeping the fast carbs in there though?
No issues, but it is a waste of calories IMO, unless you are busy and you can't eat solid food, you should take a sort of shakes...but I'd eat solid food instead, nhomomo, eat some low fat ice cream, cereal or something like that
- Working out fasted is just as per one of the leangains recommended programs, and works for me, I train at 12 and 1-9PM seems like a good eating window.
So if it works for you, keep going and put results
Cheers for your input and links!!!

no problemo, see bold again!

[Kusie]

Just discovered IF and have some questions since people on here seem pretty willing to answer.

1) I just started the workout program "Intermediate/Advance Routine" which is stickied in the Workout Programs section. I was wondering if the two can be paired (sorry I don't have enough posts to attach a link to the program)

2) These are what my stats and diet are looking like currently: 160lbs - 5"8' - %20-%25 BF (estimating from comparison pics) | Diet: 2800 calories - 320g carbs - 160g protein - 97g fats

3) What would be the best way to work in IF with a day like this: Wake up at 9am, go to the gym at around 10am or 11am. Should I just go to the gym fasted to make things simple or can I eat beforehand? If so, what could that look like? I should mention that I take Assault as a pre-workout.

Thanks!

[neddo]

What are your goals?

[Kusie]

What are your goals?

Get big, lean out, be jacked. Yenno, the usual

I know losing fat and building muscle don't exactly go hand in hand but I figure that a good diet + lifting brutally will let me achieve my goals, right?

And when I say "get big" I mean gain some lean mass.

One more thing while I have you guys. This is kind of random but what is the least amount of calories I can consume in a day before it starts having negative effects? I ask because I'm finding it hard as it is (meals spread out, eating every couple of hours) to get my 2800 cals in and I can't imagine it's any easier condensing it into 3 meals during IF. What deficit can I get away with (including working out) before I keel over and die?

[wwazza]

Get big, lean out, be jacked. Yenno, the usual

I know losing fat and building muscle don't exactly go hand in hand but I figure that a good diet + lifting brutally will let me achieve my goals, right?

And when I say "get big" I mean gain some lean mass.

One more thing while I have you guys. This is kind of random but what is the least amount of calories I can consume in a day before it starts having negative effects? I ask because I'm finding it hard as it is (meals spread out, eating every couple of hours) to get my 2800 cals in and I can't imagine it's any easier condensing it into 3 meals during IF. What deficit can I get away with (including working out) before I keel over and die?

If you wanna lose some of that bodyfat mate your cals are too high for your current stats.

I'm 165 14%bf and averaging about 2200 which is just about dropping a little weight off me. keeping strong though and losing bf

[Kusie]

If you wanna lose some of that bodyfat mate your cals are too high for your current stats.

I'm 165 14%bf and averaging about 2200 which is just about dropping a little weight off me. keeping strong though and losing bf

Thanks for the reply. I've already added a 300 cal deficit to my maintenance (3100) just with calories in, plus I probably burn off another 300 during a workout so I'm at around 2500 total for the day.

What do you think I should aim for, 1800-2000? Less?