Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss - Part Two

[QT]

Couple of questions

1. You're supposed to do IF 7 days a week right?

2. I have done IF since August now, and if I were to go back to a regular eating pattern, is there anything I need to be aware of? Or can I just bump straight into my first breakfast in 4 months and eat every 3-4 hours? Or will it negatively shock my body?

[blorge]

I have been using IF for about 5 months now. It started out similar to the warrior diet (training twice a day with 3 small meals interspersed then one large meal at the end of the day) and developed into extending my fast into a 16/8 eating window with the largest meal post-workout. I trained 5-6 days a week usually twice a day for four of those days. My average session lasted an hour (sometimes 1:30) and shortest usually 30 mins. I did not count calories but made sure that I ate roughly 1.2-1.5 g protein/kg body weight and filled in the rest of my calories with carbohydrates and fats. I ate relatively "clean" foods (lots of veggies, black beans, tuna, chicken, sushi, almond butter, honey, bananas) but noticed no difference after consuming sweets or burgers after breaking my fast. Here's what I noticed after 5 months for anyone interested:

Physical

• Noticeable decrease in bodyfat % and increase in vascularity
• I lost about 10 pounds(190-180) and have regained about 5 pounds with very little fat mass
• Lost strength at the beginning but seem to be regaining (probably due to the loss of weight)
• One of the biggest downsides was having chronically cold feet and hands.
  I'm talking about having" two pairs of socks on underneath three blankets still cold" feet. I found out this is due to low levels of thyroid hormone.
• I did cardio 3-4 times a week (mix between sprints and long duration elliptical) and noticed an improvement in cardiovascular performance (could be due to weight loss)

Mental

• Significant increase in appetite control (sometimes to the point where I'm not hungry)
• Great focus on computation tasks (math, reading, chem problems)
• BIG downside was that I couldn't hold a conversation with anyone after fasting. I would mix up words and have to think extremely hard about the point I was trying to express to not sound like a complete idiot.
• I have more energy while doing physical tasks but very sleepy at beginning/end of day. However, if I fasted all day until the afternoon there was a much higher chance I would take a nap and not have the energy to workout. Would be hard to wake up on time in the mornings and go to sleep relatively eary.

Effectiveness

• Very effective at lowering bodyfat %
• I personally had a greater fat loss with this kind of diet compared to restricted calories and standard carb cycling

Long term feasibility

• I am transitioning into a gaining phase and will probably have a couple days a week of 16/8 fasting
• I found it very hard to be social while fasting and this was a major drawback
• The longest I have "dieted" was a couple months, this was the longest I had adhered to a dieting protocol
• Fasting long term might lower thyroid hormone (which could translate to a lowering of testosterone) but this could occur to a lesser extent with calorie restricted diets

In conclusion: IF was effective for fat loss, great for long term feasibility, great for appetite control, negligible for strength gain, terrible for people who have to be social for their jobs etc, and was a good experience. I will be altering my plan to accommodate my transition in goal (gaining) but will probably include a 16/8 fast on a couple of the days. Once again, it is about finding what works best for you and sticking with it. If worked great for me but it could yield extremely different results for others.

In conclusion

Great post. I agree a lot of what you said, especially hunger control. Is the social aspect the main reason you won't be continuing this for seven days a week?
Repped.

[blorge]

Couple of questions

1. You're supposed to do IF 7 days a week right?

2. I have done IF since August now, and if I were to go back to a regular eating pattern, is there anything I need to be aware of? Or can I just bump straight into my first breakfast in 4 months and eat every 3-4 hours? Or will it negatively shock my body?

Not sure about exactly how changing back to a conventional diet will effect progress, but to answer your first question, yes it should be 7 days a week. This is because the body's hormonal patterns of hunger can be more regular, IIRC.

[ChinoZ32]

I has some down time yesterday cause kids were napping and wife was doing online college... I did some various calestentic type cardio. It felt good. Didn't know I missed it.

There you go

I've been on IF for over a month now, it's like second nature now. I dieted down pretty hardcore this year on the standard 6-meal a day stuff and it worked but it certainly wasn't fun. I was 292 in Jan. I'm 217 now, somewhere around 20% if my scale is to be believed. I was on 1800 offday / 2300 on and the fat was flying off. I don't have much in the way of lean mass though so I'm giving a surplus a try and doing allpro's beginner routine. I'm going with 3500 / off 4500-5000 on which seems very high to me but seems to be working well so far. I'm going to monitor my waistline and taper the calories back if it gets too out of hand.

The funny thing is I've been training fasted the whole time heh. No bcaas until I read martins website. I've always hated breakfast, it messed with my stomach. It seems way easier to lose weight than gain mass though. I'm up to the challenge tho!
I read this whole thread before posting. Thanks Martin, Chino, sportyaccordy and others for your input it's really been helpful.

Glad I've been of assistance somehow. It sounds like all is going well, keep it up.

Couple of questions

1. You're supposed to do IF 7 days a week right?

2. I have done IF since August now, and if I were to go back to a regular eating pattern, is there anything I need to be aware of? Or can I just bump straight into my first breakfast in 4 months and eat every 3-4 hours? Or will it negatively shock my body?

Martin mentioned this:

Simply put, your body expects a certain routine every day, depending on habitual diet patterns and sleep/wake cycles, and adjusts its hormonal profile and metabolism accordingly. If this pattern is haphazardly and constantly shifted back and forth, and never allowed to adapt, as is the case with many shift-workers - it's very possible that it would be an independent factor in predisposing people to disease and health disorders. The hormonal profile of shift-workers tend to be less favorable than non-shift workers, for example.

So I assume yes, IF 7 days a week is recommended. I cycle a 16/8 and 24hrs every second day and my body has adapted. For your second question: I would just go back to your intended eating routine/pattern so that it adapts immediately. Provided you do not adjust your daily intake as well, I don't see why it would be a problem.

[MrCarl.]

IF'ing made my social life even better. While fasted I am energetic and my work capacity is through the roof. Brb going to the libary at 9am and studying non-stop till 4pm while fasted Although it gets really cold sitting on my ass studying all day while fasted.

[CarlGN]

^ completely agree with you man. reps for the name as well lol

[foxbody351w]

ok, time for a female perspective update

I logged September 5, 2011 my maxes for several lifts here they are now 3 months later December 5, 2011. Ive been following the LG and doing Westside Barbell's Dynamic and Max Effort program, as well I dropped my cardio from 6days a week approx 40min each to 2x/wk 30min. No weight change or maybe slight drop of 1-2lbs. Everyone at the gym keeps asking if Im losing weight so I know Im looking better. My diet is 4days of higher carbs on lifting days and 3days of low carbs/high fat on off days. Calorie and carb cycling as recommended.

Sept 5, 2011
Deadlift-195 x4 Current-225 x6/275 x1

Bench-175 x4 Current-195 x3

Squat-115 x4 Current-200 x2

Chinups-bodyweight plus 25lbs x6 Current-bodyweight plus 35lbs x6

Major improvements in only 3months with a drastic decrease in cardio and major increase in calories. I stopped counting calories but I have checked periodically on fitday to make sure im getting my fats and proteins.

Most noteable improvements were made when I stopped eating Gluten and Dairy(including protein powder) and just focused on healthy fats, veggies and meats. I still eat gluten free oats for carb days and things like quinoa and sweet potatoes for my starches as well as high carb fruits like apples and pears.

I had severe adrenal fatigue and it caused thyroid disease from years of killing myself everyday in the gym and hours of cardio with a low calorie diet with little fat.(a diet actually from a "coach"). The leangains has actually eliminated my thyroid issues and I feel better than ever, not taking thyroid meds anymore, I dont get the massive cravings I used to, I look better and I feel better, I am actually healthy now and I love it.

[QT]

Martin mentioned this:



So I assume yes, IF 7 days a week is recommended. I cycle a 16/8 and 24hrs every second day and my body has adapted. For your second question: I would just go back to your intended eating routine/pattern so that it adapts immediately. Provided you do not adjust your daily intake as well, I don't see why it would be a problem.

Thanks. Does that mean that fasting from 11 pm to 4-5 pm a bad thing? It's how I do it. I break my fast after working out on my way home from school.

[Todash]

Thanks. Does that mean that fasting from 11 pm to 4-5 pm a bad thing? It's how I do it. I break my fast after working out on my way home from school.

From what I've read I think that's fine. I fast from 10:30pm to 2:30pm and I train around 7:30am (take xtend around that time and after). My setup is probably less ideal than yours, and it works ok. Although time will tell, with regards to my physique, how well it works.

I remember how hard it was when I first begun to go even 16hrs, now that is nothing. I'm on hour 15 now, not even particularly hungry, but I didn't train today other than a walk and some abs.

[ultralars]

Hey so i want to get down to 10% bodyfat and to do that i need to get ride of around 10-15 pounds of pure fat.

I am the guy who always loses strength( within the first week) even while eating 2500 calories when my tdee is 2750.

So my question is, in order to keep my strength should i cycle my calories while doing leangains or would that only slow my progress? i workout 4 times a week not counting cardio. I wouldn't go above 2750 and on rest days i would lie at around 2300. the best situation would obviously be to gain strength while dropping the pounds but it's ok if i dont, being weak, there is a lot of peer pressure and its hard to see people passing you but it's all worth it in the end isn't it.

[ChinoZ32]

Thanks. Does that mean that fasting from 11 pm to 4-5 pm a bad thing? It's how I do it. I break my fast after working out on my way home from school.

No worries. And no, it's not a bad thing. That's a window nonetheless and if it works for your schedule then good for you. I fast between 9PM and 2PM myself which isn't far from yours but I cycle a 16/8 to 24/0 on my non-lifting days. 9PM - 9PM on non-lifting and I still train in terms of metabolic Olympic lifts. Provided it works for you champ, that's good.

[liammccarthy]

not to be pedantic chino but 24/0 would be a bit mis-leading.. Wouldn't 23.5/0.5 be more accurate for your off days? It's got to take at least 30 minutes to eat all your daily calories?

[ChinoZ32]

not to be pedantic chino but 24/0 would be a bit mis-leading.. Wouldn't 23.5/0.5 be more accurate for your off days? It's got to take at least 30 minutes to eat all your daily calories?

True champ.

[macrosbrah]

So I have been following leangains for over 2 months now and love it. But I want mix in longer fasts, sort of like a hybrid of eat stop eat and leangains. I have been doing this for a week and was wondering if anyone else has tried this?

I have 2 days where I go ~36 hours fasted Tuesdays/Saturdays.
Mon/Thurs/Fri I break my fast at 1pm and end my eating at 9pm ( My normal Leangains time)
Wed/Sun fasts are broken earlier either 9-11am ending my eating at 5-7pm
Tues/Sat are full fast days that begin 9pm on Mon/Fri and I don't break this till 9-11am Wed/Sun
The reason behind the longer fasts is just because it is easier to create a deficit for my cut than just Leangains style alone. Thoughts?

[determined4000]

So I have been following leangains for over 2 months now and love it. But I want mix in longer fasts, sort of like a hybrid of eat stop eat and leangains. I have been doing this for a week and was wondering if anyone else has tried this?

I have 2 days where I go ~36 hours fasted Tuesdays/Saturdays.
Mon/Thurs/Fri I break my fast at 1pm and end my eating at 9pm ( My normal Leangains time)
Wed/Sun fasts are broken earlier either 9-11am ending my eating at 5-7pm
Tues/Sat are full fast days that begin 9pm on Mon/Fri and I don't break this till 9-11am Wed/Sun
The reason behind the longer fasts is just because it is easier to create a deficit for my cut than just Leangains style alone. Thoughts?

lifting and cardio schedule?
weekly deficit?
current BF?
macros on eating days?

I would tend to suggest not going that long unless at a high BF. I would favor hitting your protein intake on a 24 hour basis and just doing short feeding windows daily to maintain your deficit. If getting in all your calories over a couple hours, I dont think it would be too hard to not overeat your macros.

[determined4000]

Hey so i want to get down to 10% bodyfat and to do that i need to get ride of around 10-15 pounds of pure fat.

I am the guy who always loses strength( within the first week) even while eating 2500 calories when my tdee is 2750.

So my question is, in order to keep my strength should i cycle my calories while doing leangains or would that only slow my progress? i workout 4 times a week not counting cardio. I wouldn't go above 2750 and on rest days i would lie at around 2300. the best situation would obviously be to gain strength while dropping the pounds but it's ok if i dont, being weak, there is a lot of peer pressure and its hard to see people passing you but it's all worth it in the end isn't it.

That would put you at < 200 cal deficit a day (7% deficit)
At that rate, you will need to be cutting for 7-8months

[mrivera11]

True champ.

Chino, when you do 24/0. Do you still hit the full calorie/macros intake for the day?

Thanks.

[kkancho]

I'm redoing my RPT routine and i was wondering what rep range you guys stay at for certain exercises..

I'm starting to think i've been doing too low of a rep range for all my lifts.. I've been doing:

2,3,4 for Deadlifts
3-6 for Chins
3-6 for Bench Press
3-6 for Squats

[Falkirk39]

would it be a bad idea to try IF? I turn 18 in February; would IF affect me negatively?

[determined4000]

would it be a bad idea to try IF? I turn 18 in February; would IF affect me negatively?

I wouldnt recommend it for someone still growing and developing (which you obvisouly should be given your age and size)
plus at your age it could interfere with social aspects of life

[ChinoZ32]

Chino, when you do 24/0. Do you still hit the full calorie/macros intake for the day?

Thanks.

Yeap. Range minimum 2,000 calories but currently been setting this at 2,500 - 3,000 and that's not my tension/heavy lifting days (which is more). Weekends are a lot more than that since I set no rules but I still fast.

[LIMitless87]

Yeap. Range minimum 2,000 calories but currently been setting this at 2,500 - 3,000 and that's not my tension/heavy lifting days (which is more). Weekends are a lot more than that since I set no rules but I still fast.

Ok, I'm interested in making IF apart of my lifestyle, but just wanted to ask a few questions.

I currently weigh 196 lbs, 5ft 7, 21% bf, 24 yrs of ago, 156 lbs of LBM. After my calculations I came up with the following:

2842 cals for lifting days
2342 cals for non lifting days.

Does that sound right or should I decrease that by 10, 15 or 20%?

I plan on the 16/8 IF method as well.

All input would be appreciated.

[Javid_Shanghai]

im gonna start my IF next week, at least for 1 month to see the results. My last 6 months was something like cutting. But now I just dont know what to do; recomp or bulking with IF.. My avatar pic is recently updated. Dont know whats my BF% and plz need some advice, recomp or bulk? Thanks

[ChinoZ32]

Ok, I'm interested in making IF apart of my lifestyle, but just wanted to ask a few questions.

I currently weigh 196 lbs, 5ft 7, 21% bf, 24 yrs of ago, 156 lbs of LBM. After my calculations I came up with the following:

2842 cals for lifting days
2342 cals for non lifting days.

Does that sound right or should I decrease that by 10, 15 or 20%?

I plan on the 16/8 IF method as well.

All input would be appreciated.

Mate, don't get too hung up on numbers. By all means, track but as for starting IF, just pick rough numbers for your days during and non-training days. You know yourself better than I do so I can't make a call and say yeap those are great numbers. I started at 2,500 ON and 2,000 off and over time gradually tweaked it for 2,500+ ON to 3,000+ OFF just to maintain, sometimes I've had to even bump things to 3,000 OFF and 3,500 ON, don't ask me why I just needed to to make sure I was as close to maintenance as possible.

[LIMitless87]

Mate, don't get too hung up on numbers. By all means, track but as for starting IF, just pick rough numbers for your days during and non-training days. You know yourself better than I do so I can't make a call and say yeap those are great numbers. I started at 2,500 ON and 2,000 off and over time gradually tweaked it for 2,500+ ON to 3,000+ OFF just to maintain, sometimes I've had to even bump things to 3,000 OFF and 3,500 ON, don't ask me why I just needed to to make sure I was as close to maintenance as possible.

I really don't know what works for me. Trying to figure it all out. Its all a crazy ass confusing science. Ill be starting on the 2nd and ill give it a couple weeks to see how my body reacts to it all. Hopefully I'm on to something that will provide me with good results over time.

[vitornoob]

would it be a bad idea to try IF? I turn 18 in February; would IF affect me negatively?

No

I wouldnt recommend it for someone still growing and developing (which you obvisouly should be given your age and size)
plus at your age it could interfere with social aspects of life

WTF??????????????????????????????????

I really don't know what works for me. Trying to figure it all out. Its all a crazy ass confusing science. Ill be starting on the 2nd and ill give it a couple weeks to see how my body reacts to it all. Hopefully I'm on to something that will provide me with good results over time.

As Chino said, get easier numbers, not 2835,09080 kcal for ON and XYZ,ßaü for OFF, just you can choose to eat the same everyday or eat more WO days and less OFF days, what matters is the balance for one week or so, your body just works in a long term

[GreatestEver]

Ok guys, preparing for my 2nd time on IF

I am thinking along the lines of 200 calorie deficet on workout days, 1000 calorie deficet on off days. Working out 3 days, that gives me a 4600 calorie deficit per week. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Now, what routine you guys doing? I was thinking SS or something like that?

[L0GiK]

Ok guys, preparing for my 2nd time on IF

I am thinking along the lines of 200 calorie deficet on workout days, 1000 calorie deficet on off days. Working out 3 days, that gives me a 4600 calorie deficit per week. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Now, what routine you guys doing? I was thinking SS or something like that?

Deficit sounds like its going to be pretty high, what's your maintenance?

[LIMitless87]

No


WTF??????????????????????????????????



As Chino said, get easier numbers, not 2835,09080 kcal for ON and XYZ,ßaü for OFF, just you can choose to eat the suuame everyday or eat more WO days and less OFF days, what matters is the balance for one week or so, your body just works in a long term

Thanks. I changed it to 2800 WO days and 2300 NWO days. Going to test it out for about three weeks and adjust after if needed. Thanks.

[GreatestEver]

Deficit sounds like its going to be pretty high, what's your maintenance?

Going to calculate that later but it would be 2.5k-3k, and I have 21% bf so should be able to lose more fat with less muscle/strength loss, at least initially.