Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss - Part Two

[vitornoob]

COULD be too hard when eating -20% off days..just give a shot...

[mccouch]

COULD be too hard when eating -20% off days..just give a shot...

Well, for today, I planned on lifting for 60 mins, and doing 20 mins HIIT(burpees). I plan on breaking the fast and consuming +20%, if I can cram down that much.. The article you posted from Lyle McDonald doesn't seem to be rather clear about his stand on HIIT..Apparently it has its benefits but those benefits decrease after a 3 week period..

[zoren]

I've been reading and Martin says that you actually refeed carbs after every workout.. but say I'm in low calories/CR-IF diet and my carbs are kinda limited (100-120gr).. should I add a refeed weekly? I'm around 1900 calories.. maybe take my cals up to maintenance for that refeed day (1gr/lb protein, 2gr/lb, fat low) ? I'm 168 lbs now

[foxbody351w]

I lift 3 days a week for about an hour - Doing All Pro's Simple Beginner's Routine. I like to do cardio 1 or 2 days a week for about 30 mins. I sit on my butt at a computer all day.... or driving to a broken one. I have been paying close attention to what I eat. I starting using MyFitnessPal to log stuff when I couldn't lift due to my RC injury. When I wasn't lifting my weight seemed harder to maintain so I started using MFP. As for the junk... I know all about IIFYM and I do make them fit.

I guess what threw me off was what you said about "erring on the side of deficit". That's dead on. I was eating 1750 most days of the month with a one or two 2000 or 2500 days in there... Not often. When my weight was maintaining I assumed that 1750 was very close to my maintenance. That's why I asked about maintenance being more of a window than a hard line.

That being said, I will up my calories and see what happens. I'm assuming you want me to try a straight 2200 every day... no cycling at this point. Thanks man, I gotta go eat something. I'm only halfway to 2200. I'm not sure I can rock the IF with two 1100 calorie meals. hahaha

Quitcher bitchin!!! lol

You eat less than me and Im a woman, anyways...you have lost the weight rather quickly, and being previously fat your stomach skin will be loose and its most likely FAT not skin like ppl think..you have to get to a lower bodyfat and the skin will tighten up because it is really the fat shrinking.

TRUST ME i know, I had a 56in waist when I was prego and weighed over 200lbs AND had a c-section, I got down to 130 after and once I got to 13% bf my stomach was completely tight, all the "loose skin" tightened up. But heres the kicker...I have since gained about 15lbs and my stomach is "loose" again(because its FAT and not loose skin)

With low calories like you've been doing for a while it really slows the metabolism, do yourself a favor and recomp.

[maltanarchy]

Quitcher bitchin!!! lol

You eat less than me and Im a woman, anyways...you have lost the weight rather quickly, and being previously fat your stomach skin will be loose and its most likely FAT not skin like ppl think..you have to get to a lower bodyfat and the skin will tighten up because it is really the fat shrinking.

TRUST ME i know, I had a 56in waist when I was prego and weighed over 200lbs AND had a c-section, I got down to 130 after and once I got to 13% bf my stomach was completely tight, all the "loose skin" tightened up. But heres the kicker...I have since gained about 15lbs and my stomach is "loose" again(because its FAT and not loose skin)

With low calories like you've been doing for a while it really slows the metabolism, do yourself a favor and recomp.

Thanks? I think? LOL. I swear that I ate maintenance calories today... 2160. This is like the 3rd or 4th day of shooting for 2000+ calories. It's a big change.

After spending all of last year in the losing fat forum I guess I've become overly focused on the stomach. You are the 3rd person over here in the IF thread that's taken the time to tell me to recomp. I'm up for it. Like I said before I thought that my maintenance was somewhere close to 1750 since I was maintaining (or was very slowly losing) at that number. I'm excited to see what happens after eating at 2000-2200 for a few weeks. I just assumed that the calculators were less than perfect, and I was an exception to the formulas.

About the loose skin... Is 65lbs in a little less than a year that fast? I have been around 145lbs for about a year now. Also, I agree that loose stomach skin is rarely loose skin. It's loose jiggly fat that's leftover after burning a whole bunch of fat. So, I was wanting to eat just below my maintenance so that I could tighten up my stomach. But the IF crew keeps telling me that's the wrong thing to do. I'm going to focus on strength now, and worry about the stomach later. Will recomping help with stomach fat? Or am I supposed to slow bulk then cut later?

[sportyaccordy]

Fat comes off in different stages. For most people the gut is the last place for fat to come off. For women the hips + thighs are another trouble spot. Plus women generally have higher BF%s. So it's tough. But recomping is prob the way to your goals.

[CutItUp9759]

Please critique my leangains approach here... FYI before cycling I did 2000 cals, 225 protein, 70 fat, 120 carbs... now I am cycling and trying to get more fruit and veggies in my diet...

I only use protein shakes because it is very expensive to have so much meat on a day-to-day basis and I minimized the protein shake intake to like under 20-30% of my protein calories.


Workout days (T-Th-S)
Calories: 2100 calories Protein: 225 grams
Carbs: 165 grams Fat: 60 grams

6 AM: 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA.

6:30-7:30 AM: Training.

8 AM: 10 g BCAA

9:30 or 10 AM: 10 g BCAA

12-1 PM: The "real" post-workout meal (largest meal of the day). Start of the 8 hour feeding-window.

- Multivitamin
- Apple: 0.5 cup, sliced
- Banana: 0.5 cup, sliced
- Celery: 1 cup, diced
- Sweet potato: 112.5 grams
- Chicken: 300 grams
- Chocolate Protein: 30 grams

3-5 PM: Second meal

- Multivitamin
- Orange: 0.5 cup, sections
- Ground Beef: 250 grams
- Chocolate Protein: 30 grams
- Sweet potato: 112.5 grams
- Baby spinach: 1 cup

8-9 PM: Last meal before the fast.

- Multivitamin
- Tsp. fish oil
- Strawberries: 0.5 cup, halves
- Cucumber: 1 cup, sliced
- Eggs: 2 large
- Egg whites: 1 cup
- Oats: 80 grams
- (w/ Oats) Blueberries: 0.5 cup

Off-days (M-W-F-Sun)
Calories: 1900 calories Protein: 225 grams
Carbs: 80 grams Fat: 75 grams

12-1 PM: Start of the 8 hour feeding-window (very high protein on rest days)

- Multivitamin
- Banana: 0.5 cup, sliced
- Celery: 1 cup, diced
- Chicken: 300 grams
- Chocolate Protein: 30 grams

3-5 PM: Second meal

- Multivitamin
- Orange: 0.5 cup, sections
- Baby Spinach: 1 cup
- Ground Beef: 250 grams
- Chocolate Protein: 30 grams

8-9 PM: Last meal before the fast.

- Multivitamin
- Tsp. fish oil
- Strawberries: 0.5 cup, halves
- Cucumber: 1 cup, sliced
- Eggs: 2 large
- Egg whites: 1 cup
- Oats: 40 grams
- Natural PB: 2 tbsp

[Robosco]

I just want everyone to know that I ate an entire batch of Bear's Creek "darn good chili". I've added 1 lbs (450g) of cooked ground beef (drained) and a can of diced tomatoes. Total is 1650 kcal. Darn good chili....

[mccouch]

What do you guys like to eat on your High Protein/High Fat/Low Carb days?

[vitornoob]

What do you guys like to eat on your High Protein/High Fat/Low Carb days?

everything that fit into my macros

[mccouch]

Well yea, but Im having trouble coming up w/ things to eat that are High Fat High Protein and minial carbs.. I figure PB would help w/ the fat, but what to put it on? Got plenty of almonds too but I dont feel like going through just a c of almonds to get my fats for the day....

[vitornoob]

Well yea, but Im having trouble coming up w/ things to eat that are High Fat High Protein and minial carbs.. I figure PB would help w/ the fat, but what to put it on? Got plenty of almonds too but I dont feel like going through just a c of almonds to get my fats for the day....

eat any whole foods that fit into your macros...and Leangains is not mininal fats FYI

eat what is here and you get a lot of micros: http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php

[sportyaccordy]

What do you guys like to eat on your High Protein/High Fat/Low Carb days?

MEAT

No but seriously my meal plan on those days usually consists of a Boston Market half chicken + chopped spinach + mixed veggies for lunch, a casein shake + snack (cookies usually), and then a slab of steak or salmon or something for dinner. Bottom line if you make those days consist mainly of meat you can't go wrong.

[gabok84]

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i'm new here so i can't post any links but you can check on ******** lean4ever, all the stuff it's totally free, i do not promote any products or anything like that, just trying to help people with their goals...

pd: specially good for leangains if, if you like any advice regarding training or diet on this regimen feel free to ask, i have used it on myself and other with great success either for cutting or bulking

[AlwaysTryin]

hi guys..i made a ******** page with a lot of recipes, links to interesting websites and more..any request, suggestions, and comments are really apreciated..hope you enjoy!
i'm new here so i can't post any links but you can check on ******** lean4ever, all the stuff it's totally free, i do not promote any products or anything like that, just trying to help people with their goals...

pd: specially good for leangains if, if you like any advice regarding training or diet on this regimen feel free to ask, i have used it on myself and other with great success either for cutting or bulking

You keep posting this in numerous threads

[bejam813bucs]

allthingsgym.com/2011/10/intermittent-fasting-diet-calculator.html

Anyone see this?

[phain]

Hi EveryOne!
A big appeal to you. It is very sympathetic to the method and at any price I want to start as soon as possible. One great trouble is that my English is poor with only basic or intermediate level of English language for me. I thought a blog backend for my transformation. Would any of you helpful people here who help me with my planning. I read a lot on the subject but should be someone who looks at my plan and it says that it will be good so you can start. So I ask you to find out the method is designed to help change my life.
my blog name : Leangains START NOW !!!! (i cant link it )

[mccouch]

allthingsgym.com/2011/10/intermittent-fasting-diet-calculator.html

Anyone see this?

Looks kinda cool..

[nkiritsis13]

Hey everyone, I have been a fan of fasting for a little bit now, but I'm looking to tighten up my diet/schedule/training and could use some advice, especially after I looked through leangains more thoroughly.

I'm between 140-144 lbs now after bulking, but I put on weight too quickly particularly in my midsection. Obviously I'm still pretty light for a guy and need to increase mass, but now the fat has to come off as well to keep progress smooth and to not end up with a major fat loss goal instead of a more minor one now. I should also add that, as strange as it sounds, I have been eating about 2500 cardio days and 2600 lifting days - below the typical +500 calories for a bulk - and I saw very little strength gain, some muscle mass, and enough fat to be pretty damn noticeable. At 5'8" I calculated my maintenance to be ~2363 for working out 5X a week (I do 7x, but to be on the safe side). Alongside sickness, if there was any other factor that I would attribute to the mixed results of all that would be that I've had a terrible nocturnal sleep pattern right now, but by changing things up to follow a more strict protocol for my schedule, I think re-regulating will be easier since I won't be trying to prepare 25-600 calories of food and then eat all of it every day.

Would it be a good idea to try cycling my calories between my weight training days +20% maintenance (full body - M, W, F) and -20% maintenance cardio days (intervals on a stationary bike, not HIIT - S, T, T, S)? Or because I want to cut, should I base that +/- 20% off of a lower figure? Otherwise, should I do a straight cut of around 1800 a day, then go for the calorie cycling to gain slowly? I have honestly never tried the calorie cycling by such drastic amounts, but after reading the leangains blog I really want to try that out if it would be more beneficial for my situation and preserving the hard-earned muscle that I've gained.

I'd appreciate any thoughts, thank you!

[determined4000]

Hey everyone, I have been a fan of fasting for a little bit now, but I'm looking to tighten up my diet/schedule/training and could use some advice, especially after I looked through leangains more thoroughly.

I'm between 140-144 lbs now after bulking, but I put on weight too quickly particularly in my midsection. Obviously I'm still pretty light for a guy and need to increase mass, but now the fat has to come off as well to keep progress smooth and to not end up with a major fat loss goal instead of a more minor one now. I should also add that, as strange as it sounds, I have been eating about 2500 cardio days and 2600 lifting days - below the typical +500 calories for a bulk - and I saw very little strength gain, some muscle mass, and enough fat to be pretty damn noticeable. At 5'8" I calculated my maintenance to be ~2363 for working out 5X a week (I do 7x, but to be on the safe side). Alongside sickness, if there was any other factor that I would attribute to the mixed results of all that would be that I've had a terrible nocturnal sleep pattern right now, but by changing things up to follow a more strict protocol for my schedule, I think re-regulating will be easier since I won't be trying to prepare 25-600 calories of food and then eat all of it every day.

Would it be a good idea to try cycling my calories between my weight training days +20% maintenance (full body - M, W, F) and -20% maintenance cardio days (intervals on a stationary bike, not HIIT - S, T, T, S)? Or because I want to cut, should I base that +/- 20% off of a lower figure? Otherwise, should I do a straight cut of around 1800 a day, then go for the calorie cycling to gain slowly? I have honestly never tried the calorie cycling by such drastic amounts, but after reading the leangains blog I really want to try that out if it would be more beneficial for my situation and preserving the hard-earned muscle that I've gained.

I'd appreciate any thoughts, thank you!

Given your stats, you shouldnt be cutting
You either have a distorted self-body image or are skinny fat. If its the latter, the only remedy is to add mass to your frame to improve body comp. I can all but gaurantee cutting is not going to leave you looking any better, just weaker and prolong the time it will take to reach your goal.
If you honestly think you bulked too quickly, learn from your mistake and slow bulk from here on out.

[nkiritsis13]

Given your stats, you shouldnt be cutting
You either have a distorted self-body image or are skinny fat. If its the latter, the only remedy is to add mass to your frame to improve body comp. I can all but gaurantee cutting is not going to leave you looking any better, just weaker and prolong the time it will take to reach your goal.
If you honestly think you bulked too quickly, learn from your mistake and slow bulk from here on out.

Thanks for the reply!
I'm pretty sure it's not a distorted body image because I compared my present state with a pic I took around September 30th and there is enough of a difference from then to now, and I was pretty bloated from being sick/meds then. But that is a factor that should be addressed, so after my Wednesday lift I'll take another couple of pictures to compare and update my bodyspace. My memory might be a little too kind to how I was a month ago.

Do you think some calorie cycling between the days might help keep the bulk slow and more controlled? I know the last time we've discussed nutrition I was doing a lot more cardio, but I've cut back quite a bit to just 36 minutes plus some cool down on the off days. After I had posted, I began thinking that my body was probably so used to that constant routine that a lot of that fat gain might have just been a matter of dropping a lot of exercise activity, but not adjusting the calories for those respective days.

[determined4000]

Thanks for the reply!
I'm pretty sure it's not a distorted body image because I compared my present state with a pic I took around September 30th and there is enough of a difference from then to now, and I was pretty bloated from being sick/meds then. But that is a factor that should be addressed, so after my Wednesday lift I'll take another couple of pictures to compare and update my bodyspace. My memory might be a little too kind to how I was a month ago.

Do you think some calorie cycling between the days might help keep the bulk slow and more controlled? I know the last time we've discussed nutrition I was doing a lot more cardio, but I've cut back quite a bit to just 36 minutes plus some cool down on the off days. After I had posted, I began thinking that my body was probably so used to that constant routine that a lot of that fat gain might have just been a matter of dropping a lot of exercise activity, but not adjusting the calories for those respective days.

You are burning more on your off days (because those are your cardio days) than you do on lifting days, trust me. Thus, you should probably just eat the same each day (putting you at maintenance on cardio days and over on lifting days, given the calorie burns). Adding more cardio wont help. You are doing enough and adding more would probably just detract from lifts. Again, you need to add mass at this point. Lyle recommends cardio 3(min)-4(max) times a week for 20(min)-40(max) per session, when bulking. You are right at the upper bound.

[nkiritsis13]

You are burning more on your off days (because those are your cardio days) than you do on lifting days, trust me. Thus, you should probably just eat the same each day (putting you at maintenance on cardio days and over on lifting days, given the calorie burns). Adding more cardio wont help. You are doing enough and adding more would probably just detract from lifts. Again, you need to add mass at this point. Lyle recommends cardio 3(min)-4(max) times a week for 20(min)-40(max) per session, when bulking. You are right at the upper bound.

Definitely! That's precisely why I dropped the cardio down. It was burning me out and I wasn't getting anywhere.

As far as weight training goes, I was thinking of switching things up and trying some reverse pyramid training to switch things up because I normally do standard pyramid training. One thing that does concern me the most about the stagnation is my arm size/strength, especially the left. My arms seem to be the last things to gain anything at all, which makes it difficult to increase on the compound lifts. For instance, my chest has been increasing in size, as has my back, and my seated barbell raises have actually gone up after being static for a long time, but my arms haven't been keeping up fast enough to manage the higher loads. The best that I can figure is that it comes down to a combination of I.V. damage from when I was in surgery that never healed due to additional and continuous damage from the chemo, which was also injected intravenously in my left arm. The vein that normally runs along the bicep isn't even visible on that arm, and from what I've read vein damage is normal for I.V. chemo. Until recently, I was only doing hammer curls because the standard form would send a pain coursing down my left forearm.

I know on leangains Martin Berkhan espouses the reliance on compound lifts to do cover what isolation exercises would already accomplish, but do you think sticking with the typical full body lifting model and sticking with some additional isolation might help the arms, or would trying something like RPT help with the decreased weight load per set?

[determined4000]

Definitely! That's precisely why I dropped the cardio down. It was burning me out and I wasn't getting anywhere.

As far as weight training goes, I was thinking of switching things up and trying some reverse pyramid training to switch things up because I normally do standard pyramid training. One thing that does concern me the most about the stagnation is my arm size/strength, especially the left. My arms seem to be the last things to gain anything at all, which makes it difficult to increase on the compound lifts. For instance, my chest has been increasing in size, as has my back, and my seated barbell raises have actually gone up after being static for a long time, but my arms haven't been keeping up fast enough to manage the higher loads. The best that I can figure is that it comes down to a combination of I.V. damage from when I was in surgery that never healed due to additional and continuous damage from the chemo, which was also injected intravenously in my left arm. The vein that normally runs along the bicep isn't even visible on that arm, and from what I've read vein damage is normal for I.V. chemo. Until recently, I was only doing hammer curls because the standard form would send a pain coursing down my left forearm.


I know on leangains Martin Berkhan espouses the reliance on compound lifts to do cover what isolation exercises would already accomplish, but do you think sticking with the typical full body lifting model and sticking with some additional isolation might help the arms, or would trying something like RPT help with the decreased weight load per set?

your arms lag behind because they are a smaller muscle group than chest or back. Same goes for calves vs quads.
doing a lot of isolation is only good for those working out 6x a week, hitting 1 muscle group a day (which is stupid for some int their first few years of training)
build the foundation of the house before you put in the water fountain
I doubt reverse pyramid would make much of a difference but you could try something like 5/3/1

[nkiritsis13]

your arms lag behind because they are a smaller muscle group than chest or back. Same goes for calves vs quads.
doing a lot of isolation is only good for those working out 6x a week, hitting 1 muscle group a day (which is stupid for some int their first few years of training)
build the foundation of the house before you put in the water fountain
I doubt reverse pyramid would make much of a difference but you could try something like 5/3/1

Thank you, that makes a lot of sense.

I'll give the reverse pyramid a try just to see how my body reacts to it, and the change up is welcome anyway. Just for clarification, what is 5/3/1?

[Dexter3000]

Sorry if this is a repost, but for the unawere here is an amazing calculator designed for IF: http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/

[_BiG_M]

Sorry if this is a repost, but for the unawere here is an amazing calculator designed for IF: http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/

Thanks a lot Dexter! Repped with what I've got!
EDIT: need to spread some reputation...

[jampwharrieme]

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[zoren]

I've been reading and Martin says that you actually refeed carbs after every workout.. but say I'm in low calories/CR-IF diet and my carbs are kinda limited (100-120gr).. should I add a refeed weekly? I'm around 1900 calories.. maybe take my cals up to maintenance for that refeed day (1gr/lb protein, 2gr/lb carbs, flow fat) ? I'm 168 lbs now

Anyone?


Also, I'm breaking my fast with a protein shake (25g of prot) 5 mins before my workout, plus im using Purple Wraath intra. Should I stick with just the shake or maybe just the PW or its whatever? (prob makes no difference but who knows xD)

[vitornoob]

Anyone?


Also, I'm breaking my fast with a protein shake (25g of prot) 5 mins before my workout, plus im using Purple Wraath intra. Should I stick with just the shake or maybe just the PW or its whatever? (prob makes no difference but who knows xD)

not, just use purple if you want to train ''fasted''

WHY the hell are you eating 1900kca?

read the stickies, NOW: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981