Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss - Part Two

[Jonesy08]

does anyone else get harassed by friends/family etc when they first switch over to eating like this. I've been doing IF for about a month now because its so manageable and I've leaned out a good bit while keeping my strength up...so I'm pretty happy with the diet as a whole. Everyone that I know tho is ridiculously worried. My mom started yelling at me because she thought that I was going to whither away and get sick when I told her that I was going to fast throughout the day, then she started another one after she saw me eat one time saying that I was going to become a fatty lol. This diet really gets **** on lol

Lol that is very true. So many people (despite not even being really into health, fitness, nutrition etc) have the bro science so engrained in them they immediately see anything different as wrong.

The amount of times i have had family members / friends etc say that eating like i do is unhealthy and i must eat lots of little meals, never miss breakfast etc is amazing yet i'm losing fat and getting healthy and they are usually going in the opposite direction.

[PBateman2]

does anyone else get harassed by friends/family etc when they first switch over to eating like this. I've been doing IF for about a month now because its so manageable and I've leaned out a good bit while keeping my strength up...so I'm pretty happy with the diet as a whole. Everyone that I know tho is ridiculously worried. My mom started yelling at me because she thought that I was going to whither away and get sick when I told her that I was going to fast throughout the day, then she started another one after she saw me eat one time saying that I was going to become a fatty lol. This diet really gets **** on lol

LOL..people in my family (parents, cousins, uncles, aunts, grandparents, etc..) think I have a some sort of DISEASE cause of my build/physique and the fact that I tell them I fast 16 hrs a day. They automatically think I should be extremely skinny. It's hilarious to me...lol...I get a kick out of it!

[dustinlima]

LOL..people in my family (parents, cousins, uncles, aunts, grandparents, etc..) think I have a some sort of DISEASE cause of my build/physique and the fact that I tell them I fast 16 hrs a day. They automatically think I should be extremely skinny. It's hilarious to me...lol...I get a kick out of it!

broscience... not just for the bros

[docchio]

yeah my friends say i have an eating disorder lol

Classic example of people being afraid of things that deviate from their own traditional beliefs. Alot of my friends give me **** about it, or family members get angry at me about it. Im just like wtf? you cant handle new or different things to the point where you have to hate them/ridicule them.

Human history shows this to be true i guess

[PBateman2]

broscience... not just for the bros

Truth.

[determined4000]

They automatically think I should be extremely skinny. It's hilarious to me...lol...I get a kick out of it!

eating 5k a day!?

[PBateman2]

eating 5k a day!?

Yup. I visit my family every so often so they dont know my cals or how I eat. A bowl of proatmeal could look like 400-500 cals to them but in reality is 1000 cals.

They link "fasting" with a negative connotation. Even if I told them I ate 5k cals they still wouldnt comprehend it when I say I also fast for 16 hrs. Happens with the general public too - at least for me.

[NotHereOrThere]

I get this all the time. Inevitably it comes up while I am working, and since I will sit next to a new person for 2-3 days at a time each week it always comes up.

I don't even try anymore. They look at all 165lbs of me (which my uniforms fit me at 195) so I look like I am swimming in them, and just think I am starving. Then I drop that even though I am 165 I DL 355lbs. And they just stare.

The most hilarious thing is they try it out. They decide at that moment, with no info on how it works or how I do it with our job, to try it. The result, so far 2 cancelled flights cause they have to call in sick. Both got migranes. Dumbasses.

[joyceelam]

Hi everyone!

I've done my homework and I'm looking for someone to check my work.

I have started intermittent fasting (10/14 feed/fast) with a paleo diet. I tried it non-paleo and the food doesn't sit with me as well. So, egg whites instead of BCAA pre-WO, starchy vegetables/tubers for post-WO, etc.

My stats:
26 year old
Female
~136 lbs
~24% BF

Goal:
1) Lose 10 lbs in 10 weeks (graduation/birthday is coming up)
2) Reduce BF to ~15-18%
3) Gain some strength - not necessary but if it happens, cool; however, definitely not lose any lean muscle I already possess

Workout:
1 hour crossfit
2 additional days/week of gym time-

Calculated calories via outside website:
Maintenance: 1894 cal/day
Fat loss: 1515 cal/day <-- aim on WOD
Extreme fat loss: 1136 cal/day <-- aim on rest day

So, according to the LeanGains style of IF, it's recommended to have lower fat/higher CHO on WOD and higher fat/lower CHO on rest days.

My question is:
1) Am I doing it right?
2) Can I implement ketosis-inducing macros on rest days?

Something like:
WOD: 189g CHO/ 132g Pro/ 25g F
Rest: 28g CHO/ 56g Pro/ 88g F

Thank you in advance!

[.aeterna]

www.leangains.com

i think u need to re-read it all...

basic premise is 16fast/8hour feed - adjusting it to 10/14 is up to u, but then its not IF

additionally its a plan with heavy lifting as a primary focus for muscle gain/retention (whether ur a male or female)

ur diet plan is up to you - IF is more an lifestyle adjustment and not a diet plan. u can do keto, 404020, paleo, low carb, anything on it..

[joyceelam]

i think u need to re-read it all...

basic premise is 16fast/8hour feed - adjusting it to 10/14 is up to u, but then its not IF

additionally its a plan with heavy lifting as a primary focus for muscle gain/retention (whether ur a male or female)

ur diet plan is up to you - IF is more an lifestyle adjustment and not a diet plan. u can do keto, 404020, paleo, low carb, anything on it..

=) I did read it. I'm female and if you really really really read it, Martin actually states that he adapts a 10/14 regimen for his female clients. But I totally understand why you would say that, because you read it as a male so I'm sure you just gleaned the info that was pertinent to you. No biggie.

Hrm. Your second point is good. Thank you!

[.aeterna]

=) I did read it. I'm female and if you really really really read it, Martin actually states that he adapts a 10/14 regimen for his female clients. But I totally understand why you would say that, because you read it as a male so I'm sure you just gleaned the info that was pertinent to you. No biggie.

Hrm. Your second point is good. Thank you!

oo i guess u learn something new every day lol

[NotHereOrThere]

=) I did read it. I'm female and if you really really really read it, Martin actually states that he adapts a 10/14 regimen for his female clients. But I totally understand why you would say that, because you read it as a male so I'm sure you just gleaned the info that was pertinent to you. No biggie.

Hrm. Your second point is good. Thank you!

I think it looks good. It is almost excatly what I was doing, minus paleo and I fast for 17-19 hours typically.

I will suggest though that on days where the WOD is more cardio focused add a "buy in" prior to doing the WOD, and/or maybe a cashout. This is where I really felt it hammer me.

As for the ketosis stuff, you never stated how often you would train (how many low carb days you will have in a row) but my guess is that unless you dont train for 2-3 days at a time your body will not actually have time to get into ketosis. Base this on my lack of keto knowledge. Keep us posted on your results!

[joyceelam]

oo i guess u learn something new every day lol

No worries. I know because I pick out the stuff geared towards females. =D

As for the ketosis stuff, you never stated how often you would train (how many low carb days you will have in a row) but my guess is that unless you dont train for 2-3 days at a time your body will not actually have time to get into ketosis. Base this on my lack of keto knowledge. Keep us posted on your results!

This is an excellent point that I did not consider. So, on rest days, I may need to add cardio or drop carbs altogether. Interesting. Well, I'll give this a whirl and see what happens. Then just tweak it until it feels right. Thank you!

[spicyprice]

Something like:
WOD: 189g CHO/ 132g Pro/ 25g F
Rest: 28g CHO/ 56g Pro/ 88g F

Thank you in advance!

I havent loooked at the website in a while...... but looking at your macros for your off day.... why would you sacrifice protein for fats? Fats are not muscle sparing and you have them calculated at .66g/lb. I understand they need to be higher than WOD, but I wouldnt make them so high that you sacrifice protein.

Is there a part of the protocol that I am missing that says to reduce protein? I cant imagine there is since muscle repair from a workout goes on for 72 hours and needs the amino acids for turnover.


I could be in left field for this but I dont think I am...

[joyceelam]

I havent loooked at the website in a while...... but looking at your macros for your off day.... why would you sacrifice protein for fats? Fats are not muscle sparing and you have them calculated at .66g/lb. I understand they need to be higher than WOD, but I wouldnt make them so high that you sacrifice protein.

Is there a part of the protocol that I am missing that says to reduce protein? I cant imagine there is since muscle repair from a workout goes on for 72 hours and needs the amino acids for turnover.


I could be in left field for this but I dont think I am...

Oh, for sure. I appreciate the speculation. Clearly there are things I have not considered (see last post).

My thinking behind the decision to sacrifice proteins in favor of fat was that a very-low-carbs-Atkins-induction style diet would help more with dipping into ketosis more quickly on my rest days.

I know LG-style IF calls for high protein at all times which is conducive for muscle gain. However, I'm not really looking to bulk. I wanted something that focused more on fat loss/cutting without catabolism of already existing muscles. I'm thinking the amount of carb and protein intake post-WO would be sufficient to meet muscle cell repair needs while rest day carb restriction and protein reduction would allow a quick plummet back into ketosis.

.... I just did a quick google search and this is pretty much the targeted ketogenic diet with a IF flair. Derrrr.

[Dexter3000]

Yup. I visit my family every so often so they dont know my cals or how I eat. A bowl of proatmeal could look like 400-500 cals to them but in reality is 1000 cals.

They link "fasting" with a negative connotation. Even if I told them I ate 5k cals they still wouldnt comprehend it when I say I also fast for 16 hrs. Happens with the general public too - at least for me.

This world is so upside down sometimes, it's ridiculous. People tell me it's crazy that I go to the gym 3-4 times a week and take care of myself because it will cause too much stress on my body, lol. I am doing wayyy too much, it's okay to have a belly because everybody has (lolwut?).. I need to have fun and drink alcohol to be just like the rest, it's the social norm.

At the same time these same people get drunk 2-3 times a week and load themselves with McD food the next day. B!tch please..

But the best part is always when you are one-on-one with these people (no homo) and all of a sudden they ask you for advice on how to look good. Summer is coming, now it's time, right? well.. "STOP DESTROYING YOUR LIVER AND EAT SOME GODDAMN VEGGIES YOU SHHTFACE!!!!"

inb4 roidrage lulz

/rant



btw, people don't know I fast since I just skip my breakfast at home and get on with my day. Only my sister knows who's into sports as well and she understands these things.

[ChinoZ32]

This world is so upside down sometimes, it's ridiculous. People tell me it's crazy that I go to the gym 3-4 times a week and take care of myself because it will cause too much stress on my body, lol. I am doing wayyy too much, it's okay to have a belly because everybody has (lolwut?).. I need to have fun and drink alcohol to be just like the rest, it's the social norm.

At the same time these same people get drunk 2-3 times a week and load themselves with McD food the next day. B!tch please..

Repped just for this, well said. I get looked at funny all the time for lifting three days a week and doing 20min interval training in the morning (always striving to be healthy) they are probably thinking I'm destroying my body... *sigh*

[docchio]

Oh, for sure. I appreciate the speculation. Clearly there are things I have not considered (see last post).

My thinking behind the decision to sacrifice proteins in favor of fat was that a very-low-carbs-Atkins-induction style diet would help more with dipping into ketosis more quickly on my rest days.

I know LG-style IF calls for high protein at all times which is conducive for muscle gain. However, I'm not really looking to bulk. I wanted something that focused more on fat loss/cutting without catabolism of already existing muscles. I'm thinking the amount of carb and protein intake post-WO would be sufficient to meet muscle cell repair needs while rest day carb restriction and protein reduction would allow a quick plummet back into ketosis.

.... I just did a quick google search and this is pretty much the targeted ketogenic diet with a IF flair. Derrrr.

Martin doesnt advocate going into ketosis as part of the leangains approach, but you can do it if you like. Also wouldnt the high protein requirement of leangains bring you out of ketosis?

[Shazriki]

does anyone else get harassed by friends/family etc when they first switch over to eating like this. I've been doing IF for about a month now because its so manageable and I've leaned out a good bit while keeping my strength up...so I'm pretty happy with the diet as a whole. Everyone that I know tho is ridiculously worried. My mom started yelling at me because she thought that I was going to whither away and get sick when I told her that I was going to fast throughout the day, then she started another one after she saw me eat one time saying that I was going to become a fatty lol. This diet really gets **** on lol

My parents were actually receptive enough of the idea. My mother intially was like "OK but brb bodybuilders eat 6 times a day so I don't know why you're bothering with fasting." No real issues though, especially as I live on my own. Helps to have a vegan sister who does her own thing with her diet as well.

As a result of IF, however, my housemates hate me (not actually). They're two girls, one of whom eats like a rabbit. Serious, she's always nibbling on a piece of fruit or a lilliputian serving of cereal and complains about how she needs to lose weight (doesn't really). So when I bust out these huge post-WO meals I'm not the most liked person in the house haha.

[Dexter3000]

My parents were actually receptive enough of the idea. My mother intially was like "OK but brb bodybuilders eat 6 times a day so I don't know why you're bothering with fasting." No real issues though, especially as I live on my own. Helps to have a vegan sister who does her own thing with her diet as well.

As a result of IF, however, my housemates hate me (not actually). They're two girls, one of whom eats like a rabbit. Serious, she's always nibbling on a piece of fruit or a lilliputian serving of cereal and complains about how she needs to lose weight (doesn't really). So when I bust out these huge post-WO meals I'm not the most liked person in the house haha.

LOL yeah.

I will never understand girls who want to lose weight, because only 0.01% of those girls actually act like they want to lose weight (maybe the same goes for men, but meh). This girl I know, she talks about her new diet WHILE she is eating a bag of chocolate cookies (no IIFYM crew, lol). WTF!?

1. goal
2. plan to reach goal
3. execute plan
4. profit

girl:
1. goal
2. plan to reach goal
3. do the complete opposite and complain about not reaching goal
4. keep complaining and have a miserable life
5. fail

what is so difficult to understand?

[Jezzah]

Just made the best Pork stirfry followed up by Chocolate Casein Pudding, half a days calories in one sitting and I'm possibly the most satisfied I've ever been in my life! God how I love this lifestyle. Just saying

[FitDad327]

Repped just for this, well said. I get looked at funny all the time for lifting three days a week and doing 20min interval training in the morning (always striving to be healthy) they are probably thinking I'm destroying my body... *sigh*

Yup Chino, I would agree you are ruining your body. I mean look at yourself. You should see a doctor. <sarcasm>

People have a hard time with everything they don't understand. Most people wouldn't give IF a fair shot unless Dr Oz supported it. Keep it up everyone.

[chriskav]

Just made the best Pork stirfry followed up by Chocolate Casein Pudding, half a days calories in one sitting and I'm possibly the most satisfied I've ever been in my life! God how I love this lifestyle. Just saying

What casein are you using to make it?

[Jezzah]

What casein are you using to make it?

I've tried a few but in the end I'd have to agree with what Martin says on his website. Micellar Cream is easily the best mixing and best tasting I've used. Both the Chocolate and Vanilla are awesome.

I've also found that mashed bananas and ON Casein Banana Cream make an awesome Protein Fluff.

[joyceelam]

Martin doesnt advocate going into ketosis as part of the leangains approach, but you can do it if you like. Also wouldnt the high protein requirement of leangains bring you out of ketosis?

Yes, you are correct on both.

He has a post calling low carbers "low carb talibans". (And just for some more trivia, PaNu's Kurt Harris calls chronic low carbers, "zero carb hezbollah"). Eh, I'm okay with this. I'm sure this works for Martin and his clients. But I'm not looking for the exact results his way of eating has to offer. Just trying to meet the goals I have outlined. Now if this route can't get me to where I'm trying to go then I have zero problem switching it up and trying something else.

And yes, I'm thinking high protein requirement would bring me out of ketosis, hence dropping the amount on rest days. However, how productive this will be, I'm not too sure yet and I'll have to find out.

[ChinoZ32]

Hrmmm too much attention to every single detail gives me headaches....

I like to low carb, makes me eat clean. I KNOW for a fact, for me, tested for me, that I'm also stronger when I'm in a ketosis state. In saying this, protein has dominance over everything, next is fat. I don't follow every single detail Martin has set out but I've applied the main concept of IF and you could say ignored the macro details only for the fact that I love CKD and I came from a CKD approach.

I seem to be getting nice results out of it. For the record: I do consume 1.5g protein per body weight (NOT LBM) to over 2.2g of protein a day. And I do get into ketosis without any issues. Just because the ketostix doesn't show any level of ketones it doesn't mean to say you aren't in ketosis. Try not drinking enough water then take your ketostix test at the end of the day...

[brewmasterbill]

Apologies if this has been brought up, I searched and read many pages and didn't see it discussed in detail (only mentioned in passing). I also read Martin's links at the beginning of the thread. I will still accept n00b chiding, but please in your chide point me in the right direction

From the plan, I can execute most of it to the letter. I have a training and eating plan that looks like it can fit well into IF with one exception. I can start my fast at 8pm and break it around noon, I can eat high pro and I'm pretty good at eating a lot in a sitting, however, my time for training is pretty inflexible. At 6am, I need to be out the door and I don't get home until 5-7pm most nights. I try to workout no later than 7pm and most of the time I succeed. I see Martin and most say to workout in the morning in a fasted state. Since I cannot shift my workout, is this plan not for me? Will I get SOME benefit to IFing, eating 50% of my cals between lunch and pre-workout meal ... lifting and eating the final 50% before bed? Or am I simply wasting my time?

Cheers!

[Malkira]

And yes, I'm thinking high protein requirement would bring me out of ketosis, hence dropping the amount on rest days. However, how productive this will be, I'm not too sure yet and I'll have to find out.

Why are you chasing ketosis anyways? It's irrelevant for fat loss as calories as still the mechanism in play.

[PerpetualMotion]

Martin's protein recommendation, according to him, is A BARE MINIMUM OF 2.5g/kg! That's a little over 1g per lb but he said BARE MINIMUM.

Why are you chasing ketosis anyways? It's irrelevant for fat loss as calories as still the mechanism in play.

And macronutrients. Calories only dictate weight loss or gain.