Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss - Part Two

[NAIAD]

BULK NOOW!!!

you are really lean, just make a clean bulk(10~15% surplus from your TDEE) and you will add mass and still lean...srs!

You should change to a better workout routine that hit your muscles at least 2 a week

I would suggest Starting Strength, Strong Lifts or if you want more asthethics not strength, go with Lyle Mcdonald generic bulking routine

Is it possible to bulk without gaining fat?

[Petrovka]

I'm new to the forum and I Have been following IF for a couple of days. I just have some questions whether I'm proceeding correctly.

My day is as follows:

6:30am Wake up.

9am Drink cup of green tea.

12pm Eat an Apple

2pm Eat half a carrot and some lettuce

5m more green tea (if feeling hungry)

7.30pm: My Main Meal - chicken (grilled/fried) with green salad


This is an example of yesterday. I have a few questions that I am hoping you can answer to clear any misconceptions:
1. I usually have one meal and would you recommend having it at 7:30 or at midday or is it all preference?

2. I'm just making sure but its alright to consume raw nuts (almonds and walnuts), raw fruits (apples, mangoes etc.) and fresh vegetables in moderation during the 20 hr. period, right?

3. What do you suggest is the minimum calorie intake during the main meal?

This is the main questions I have so far, honestly I'm enjoying IF and any help/suggests that you can give me will be deeply appreciated.

Thanks!!!

[vitornoob]

Is it possible to bulk without gaining fat?

if you are in as surplus you will add fat...minimal but you will

keep in mind that muscle is hard to build, but fat you can vanish in a short period of time, please read:
http://www.simplyshredded.com/time-t...rto-nunez.html

I'm new to the forum and I Have been following IF for a couple of days. I just have some questions whether I'm proceeding correctly.

My day is as follows:
6:30am Wake up.
9am Drink cup of green tea.
12pm Eat an Apple
2pm Eat half a carrot and some lettuce
5m more green tea (if feeling hungry)
7.30pm: My Main Meal - chicken (grilled/fried) with green salad

This is an example of yesterday. I have a few questions that I am hoping you can answer to clear any misconceptions:
1. I usually have one meal and would you recommend having it at 7:30 or at midday or is it all preference?
2. I'm just making sure but its alright to consume raw nuts (almonds and walnuts), raw fruits (apples, mangoes etc.) and fresh vegetables in moderation during the 20 hr. period, right?
3. What do you suggest is the minimum calorie intake during the main meal?
This is the main questions I have so far, honestly I'm enjoying IF and any help/suggests that you can give me will be deeply appreciated.

Thanks!!!

you are following The warrior diet, this thread is for Leangains 16h fasting and 8h eating

[LaLakers94]

For gaining muscle if your first meal is the PostWorkout (in which I eat a lot of carbs and proteins and low fats) the 2,3.. o 5 meals you will do before must maintain low fats or I can reduce carbs and increase fats for dinner?

Then I will be eating for training days something that is:

~2600 Kcal ; 160g Proteins / 320g Carbs / 65 g Fats. It's Ok?

[Petrovka]

you are following The warrior diet, this thread is for Leangains 16h fasting and 8h eating

Thanks for clearing this up. I will read more on Leangains and change my diet. Thanks.

[barbdwyer]

I took my measurements last night. I have been putting it off for fear of maybe I haven't gotten bigger, but the results are great. Anybody thinking about an IF bulk, it's a great way to go.

Starting:
weight: 180lb 10% BF
chest: 43"
bicep: 15.5"
forearm: 12.5"
shoulder girth: 52.5"
quad: 23"
calves: 15"
waist: 32.5"

Now
weight: 191-193 11%
chest: 44"
bicep: 16.25"
forearm: 13"
shoulder girth: 54"
quad: 24.25"
calves: 16.25"
waist: 33"

The change in my training might have something else to do with it, but this is pretty great.

[LaLakers94]

I took my measurements last night. I have been putting it off for fear of maybe I haven't gotten bigger, but the results are great. Anybody thinking about an IF bulk, it's a great way to go.

Starting:
weight: 180lb 10% BF
chest: 43"
bicep: 15.5"
forearm: 12.5"
shoulder girth: 52.5"
quad: 23"
calves: 15"
waist: 32.5"

Now
weight: 191-193 11%
chest: 44"
bicep: 16.25"
forearm: 13"
shoulder girth: 54"
quad: 24.25"
calves: 16.25"
waist: 33"

The change in my training might have something else to do with it, but this is pretty great.

Incredible, what are your macros?

[barbdwyer]

For gaining muscle if your first meal is the PostWorkout (in which I eat a lot of carbs and proteins and low fats) the 2,3.. o 5 meals you will do before must maintain low fats or I can reduce carbs and increase fats for dinner?

Then I will be eating for training days something that is:

~2600 Kcal ; 160g Proteins / 320g Carbs / 65 g Fats. It's Ok?

It honestly doesn't matter, just stay in your eating window and eat most of your calories post workout, whether that's early in the day or late at night. I eat around 2400-2600 calories right after my workout, which 800-1000 short of my daily total, so I'm obviously eating a ton of carbs, proteins and fats at that time and the workout is sometimes early in the morning, or in the late afternoon.

[barbdwyer]

Incredible, what are your macros?

2.5g protein per kg of LBM
100g of fat
the rest is carbs.

Off days I lower the carbs a little and up the fat.

[peachiz76]

I have been researching IF for the past couple of days and am more than ready to give it a shot. However, since I am training for an ultra marathon in June, I am doing long distance runs (15-25 miles) on Saturday mornings. There is no way I could run this distance in a fasted state. So should I a)break the fast on Saturday mornings and have a small breakfast and Gu during the run or b) scrap the whole idea of IF until after the race? I'm really hoping it isn't B because I'm dying to get started.

[bagge677]

hey got a question. Im IF'ing and carb cycling! I want to include some cardio sessions to my workout (around 40-60 mins). On WO days im about 311 carbs 70g fat and on rest days, i higher fat and put down carb to a minimum. My question is: On rest days where i would do the cardio my calorie intake is about 1850 calorie. Should i adjust this to the calories which i will also burn @ cardio. So lets say i burn 500 calories with running, id do 2350 calories this day. My main quesiton however is: should i do high carb/low fat(70g) or so on these days, or should i higher fat and lay down carbs for this ?

[anuragp122195]

hey got a question. Im IF'ing and carb cycling! I want to include some cardio sessions to my workout (around 40-60 mins). On WO days im about 311 carbs 70g fat and on rest days, i higher fat and put down carb to a minimum. My question is: On rest days where i would do the cardio my calorie intake is about 1850 calorie. Should i adjust this to the calories which i will also burn @ cardio. So lets say i burn 500 calories with running, id do 2350 calories this day. My main quesiton however is: should i do high carb/low fat(70g) or so on these days, or should i higher fat and lay down carbs for this ?

well if you are doing pretty intense cardio, cycling might not be optimal for you. But it all depends on how well you run on a certain amount of carbs. Because carbs are solely for energy. Some can perform amazingly with low carbs and some require high carbs to do so.

[bagge677]

well if you are doing pretty intense cardio, cycling might not be optimal for you. But it all depends on how well you run on a certain amount of carbs. Because carbs are solely for energy. Some can perform amazingly with low carbs and some require high carbs to do so.

doing @ about 130-170 heart rate, so its not THAT intense. However i work really good with low and high carb, ive tried both so far and only had changed in LIFTS with carbs, but running stayed the same. So what would be the optimal way to do cardio with assuming that carbs do not play a role in efficiency

[LaLakers94]

Do you consider less than 90g carbs a good figure for rest days? (I'm in a slow bulk)

[peachiz76]

I have been researching IF for the past couple of days and am more than ready to give it a shot. However, since I am training for an ultra marathon in June, I am doing long distance runs (15-25 miles) on Saturday mornings. There is no way I could run this distance in a fasted state. So should I a)break the fast on Saturday mornings and have a small breakfast and Gu during the run or b) scrap the whole idea of IF until after the race? I'm really hoping it isn't B because I'm dying to get started.

Just thought of option C - maybe I could start my fast Friday at 6PM and break my fast at 7am Saturday with a small breakfast, run, and eat a larger meal when I return. That would mean cramming a lot of food into a short time period on Friday and only having a 13 hr fast on Saturday though. Not sure if any of these three options are ideal though.

Thoughts please?

[anuragp122195]

Do you consider less than 90g carbs a good figure for rest days? (I'm in a slow bulk)

That is a terrible question considering we don't have any context of your calorie needs. 90g carbs can be extremely low for someone and might be high for someone else. It all depends on the person's individual needs. If you tell us your macros that you are using to slow bulk, then you can determine what is a "good figure".

[barbdwyer]

Do you consider less than 90g carbs a good figure for rest days? (I'm in a slow bulk)

as a general guideline, I just keep 1g/lb of BW of carbs on off days, mostly consumed in the first meal of the day. That's 190-200 off day, and basically double that on workout days. But that's me.

[anuragp122195]

as a general guideline, I just keep 1g/lb of BW of carbs on off days, mostly consumed in the first meal of the day. That's 190-200 off day, and basically double that on workout days. But that's me.

That tip on 1g/lb of BW of carbs is not very smart...
Ex. 190 lb. guy who needs A LOT of protein and A LOT of fat might not have enough room to eat 190g of carbs on rest day calories.
A 120 lb. boy who doesn't need as much protein and fat is going to be left with A LOT of room for carbs (Way more than only 120g).
Carbs are the filler AFTER you meet your protein and fat needs. 1g/lb BW carbs on rest days might work for you but can completely screw some people up.

[Kiwi_Fella]

Just thought of option C - maybe I could start my fast Friday at 6PM and break my fast at 7am Saturday with a small breakfast, run, and eat a larger meal when I return. That would mean cramming a lot of food into a short time period on Friday and only having a 13 hr fast on Saturday though. Not sure if any of these three options are ideal though.

Thoughts please?

I dont think having having one day (Saturdays) is going to cause too many issues as long as you keep everything in check the other days.

[barbdwyer]

That tip on 1g/lb of BW of carbs is not very smart...
Ex. 190 lb. guy who needs A LOT of protein and A LOT of fat might not have enough room to eat 190g of carbs on rest day calories.
A 120 lb. boy who doesn't need as much protein and fat is going to be left with A LOT of room for carbs (Way more than only 120g).
Carbs are the filler AFTER you meet your protein and fat needs. 1g/lb BW carbs on rest days might work for you but can completely screw some people up.

That's why I said "but that's me." I am already somewhat lean so it works for me. Most people looking at my measurements and such could hopefully make the assumption putting one and one together.

But if not, my bad. I feel people, depending on weight and body fat ratio, should adjust accordingly. If you're a fatter individual with a high weight, you probably could go under 90g of carbs a day and be doing good. Those with an extreme metabolic fire should never lessen the carbs. But then again, I enjoy fats way more than carbs and could easily eat keto nonstop and love it, but I don't gain anything doing that so I have to force down the carbs.

[LaLakers94]

That is a terrible question considering we don't have any context of your calorie needs. 90g carbs can be extremely low for someone and might be high for someone else. It all depends on the person's individual needs. If you tell us your macros that you are using to slow bulk, then you can determine what is a "good figure".

My macros are (59Kg, 170cm, 11% BF)
TDays: ~2600 Kcal : 150g Pr / 60g Fats / 360g Carbs
RDays: ~1900 Kcal : 150g Pr / 100 Fats / 90g Carbs

What do you think? Too carbs for a rest days?

[anuragp122195]

My macros are (59Kg, 170cm, 11% BF)
TDays: ~2600 Kcal : 150g Pr / 60g Fats / 360g Carbs
RDays: ~1900 Kcal : 150g Pr / 100 Fats / 90g Carbs

What do you think? Too carbs for a rest days?

There is no such thing as too many carbs if that's the amount you need to hit your calories once you've hit protein and fat requirements. Since it appears you have adequate fats and protein, and your carbs fill the rest of your calories, then yes, it will be fine..

[vitornoob]

as a general guideline, I just keep 1g/lb of BW of carbs on off days, mostly consumed in the first meal of the day. That's 190-200 off day, and basically double that on workout days. But that's me.

please, aware me about where MB states this?

My macros are (59Kg, 170cm, 11% BF)
TDays: ~2600 Kcal : 150g Pr / 60g Fats / 360g Carbs
RDays: ~1900 Kcal : 150g Pr / 100 Fats / 90g Carbs

What do you think? Too carbs for a rest days?

What is your goal, what is your TDEE?

[NAIAD]

I took my measurements last night. I have been putting it off for fear of maybe I haven't gotten bigger, but the results are great. Anybody thinking about an IF bulk, it's a great way to go.

Starting:
weight: 180lb 10% BF
chest: 43"
bicep: 15.5"
forearm: 12.5"
shoulder girth: 52.5"
quad: 23"
calves: 15"
waist: 32.5"

Now
weight: 191-193 11%
chest: 44"
bicep: 16.25"
forearm: 13"
shoulder girth: 54"
quad: 24.25"
calves: 16.25"
waist: 33"

The change in my training might have something else to do with it, but this is pretty great.

Great work. How many calories do you eat above maintenance?

[peachiz76]

I dont think having having one day (Saturdays) is going to cause too many issues as long as you keep everything in check the other days.

Thank you! I will start this plan on Monday and hopefully have results to report back soon.

[NAIAD]

IF has been going well for me, but even though I'm cutting I'm normally really full after my first meal which is 50% of calories. I'm trying to eat clean food...but is it okay to eat some non-clean food to make up the calories easily?

[LaLakers94]

There is no such thing as too many carbs if that's the amount you need to hit your calories once you've hit protein and fat requirements. Since it appears you have adequate fats and protein, and your carbs fill the rest of your calories, then yes, it will be fine..

I agree. Thanks man!

What is your goal, what is your TDEE?

I'm bulking (slowly) but I have started this month with a body recomposition (as Berkahn called it)
My TDEE is around 2200 Kcal. (59Kg, 11% BF , 170cm)

[Ristretto]

We're trying to get Martin Berkhan to appear on a Swedish podcast, called Body Radio. It would be awesome if you guys could join this group (even if you don't give a chicken).
http://www.********.com/groups/228128127291299/

[barbdwyer]

Great work. How many calories do you eat above maintenance?

I ate at 30% above, but I don't recommend that, I just wanted to gain a little quicker.

Also, MB doesn't say anything about the carbs, I found it somewhere on bodyrecomposition.com.

Question, I'm going to transition over to a 4 week cut. -10% on training days and -20% on rest days. I normally hit my full body twice a week in a surplus, but since cutting, is it wise to go down to hitting the full body once per week so I can better hold on to, possibly gain, LBM during these 4 weeks? Keeping in mind I train gironda style, usually 8-10 sets of 6-10 reps with 30 seconds of rest between sets. That's 3 exercises per large body part and 2 per small body part.

[LaLakers94]

I have a question for people whose postworkout meal is the 1st meal they do.

Do you respect the guide at all (training days with high carbs and minimum fats all day) or do you preferer to respect the postwork. meal and increase fats (reducing carbs) in the last meal ? I'm not sure that so many carbs are good for my body (a genetic issue)