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  1. #1471
    Using your name on you kels_88's Avatar
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    For lack of a direct training program being available from Martin, I have been doing what I can to piece together exactly what he tells his clients.

    I did some googling last night (giggity) and turned up a couple articles I had not read yet (one by a guy trained by Martin), and a response to an article on food breakdown by a guy that was trained by Martin (and was featured in one of the leangains formations if I'm judging correctly by the avatar.)

    Without further ado:
    In regards to exercise and training, what chriskav and sportyaccordy said hit the nail on the head. Did I somehow miss this in my multiple readings of leangains?
    ....
    From my perspective, there are four primary exercises in the Leangains method (at least in the program Martin designed for me according to my goals and abilities): Deadlift, Squat, Bench Press, and Weighted Chinups. In addition there are about 8-10 other exercises classified as assistance moves. This was a great perspective as it really focussed the goal. I had four exercises to focus on primarily and I didn't really concern myself with gains in the others. They kinda come automatically. There's an interesting push / pull dynamic with gains, and it's never linear.

    The other difference is that I went from two to three workouts per week. The primary reason for this was a sea change in the way I was doing things in a circuit fashion. Martin required that I drop the number of sets I was doing and, in addition, the number of reps. In exchange, I was to lift more weight and get some rest in-between sets and exercises. Attack every set with maximal effort was the name of the game.

    So let's summarize the results. I'll provide individual gains for the aforementioned primary moves and will just group the assistance gains into one number and then give a combined total. These are gains over 20 weeks of actual exercise.

    * Conventional Deadlift: 155 - 295 / 90% gain
    * Back Squats: 185 - 215 / 16% gain
    * Bench Press: 165 - 180 / 9% gain
    * Weighted Chin Ups: 0 - 20 / 11% gain, using average bodyweight over the period to calculate
    * 11 Assistance Exercises: 29% average gain
    * Total Overall Gain Over 20 Weeks: 27%

    As I said, I don't recall where I began in terms of weight 3 1/2 years ago, but in that first three years before going to the Leangains approach I may have -- just guessing -- gained 50-100%, maybe more in a few things. But that's over 3 years. This was over 20 weeks, 5 months of actual time in gym.

    So call me impressed, and happy.

    ~~~
    .....

    Monday: Deadlifts and weighted chins. Make sure you get 5 mins of rest in between deadlifts and chins.

    Wednesday: Bench

    Friday: Squats. Make sure you get a minimum of two days of rest in between deadlifts and squats, i.e. don’t do heavy deads on Wednesday and then heavy squats on Friday.

    .....
    In the comments:

    generally, 2 sets for the four core moves, 1-2 for the assistance moves. Reps differ from ranges of 3-5 for deeds as Martin pointed out (HE MEANS REVERSE PYRAMID TRAINING) , to 6-8 for most of the others.

    The thing to keep in mind is the range. Ideally, when you begin at a new weight for deeds, for example, it should be a weight you can get 3, 4 reps at, not 5, or it’s too light. Once you do hit 5 or more on either set, time to increase for that set on your next workout. You treat each set independently for gains and increases in weight.
    http://freetheanimal.com/2010/11/lea...-approach.html

    Next, a comment on someone's blog by this guy:

    http://www.leangains.com/search/label/Client%20results

    You should go for dropping fat first and then do a lean-gain. When I wanted to do a recomp Martin had me not do it and do a cut first to desired BF then do a lean bulk. Worked out great. Doing bulk now.
    If your a beginner then perhaps recoup is ok.

    Protein seems low. Perhaps change it to like this. But if you are cutting cut some fat and equal protein / carbs

    Protein around 300-350 on all days.
    Fat around 50 on lift days
    Fat around 80 on rest days
    Carbs around 300-350 on lift days
    Carbs around 100-150 on rest days

    Hope this helps!

    Good luck!
    See second comment: http://startbeingfit.com/2010/10/18/...recomposition/

    I'm hoping you all can find this material useful, I did!
    Last edited by kels_88; 03-14-2011 at 08:46 PM.

  2. #1472
    Registered User docchio's Avatar
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    Geez i have trawled through the leangains website alot lol

    i think people will find this very useful

    http://www.leangains.com/2008/06/sur...-fat-loss.html

    Sure-Fire Fat Loss
    9:10 AM | Posted by Martin Berkhan



    Share I made a guest post today, on Mike O'Donnell's blog IF Life, and I thought I might post it here as well. Enjoy.

    Sure-Fire Fat Loss

    My name is Martin Berkhan and I work as a nutritional consultant, magazine writer and personal trainer. I also happen to be a proponent of intermittent fasting for health, fitness and fat loss. I have my own blog about fasting (www.leangains.com), but when Mike asked me if I’d like to make a guest post on his blog, I thought that’d be a great way to present my method in greater detail.


    The Leangains protocol consists of two phases; 16 hours of fasting, followed by 8 hours of feeding. During this period, three meals are usually eaten. Depending on the day, the composition of those meals varies; on workout days, carbs are prioritized before fat, while on rest days fat intake is higher. Protein remains fairly high on all days. That’s a very basic and general description of the protocol I employ; of course, variables change depending on goals, gender, age, body fat and activity levels, but it would be hard to describe it in greater detail without drifting off too far.

    Most of my clients are fitness enthusiasts, athletes and weight trainers, but the great majority of them have one thing in common – to look good naked. The ‘gain’ in Leangains can therefore be a bit misleading, as most of my clients wants to lose fat, while retaining as much muscle as possible in the process. While their diets might vary, it rests on some nutritional principles that I thought I’d present to the crowd reading this post. These principles will work for everyone, regardless of fitness level.

    Here are a few guidelines that I consider success factors for performance, fat loss and excellent diet compliance.

    • On workout days, break the fast with meat, veggies and a fruit. If you’re planning to train shortly after this meal, add a few carbs in the form of a starch source – potatoes or whole grain bread, for example. Make it a medium sized meal and don’t stuff yourself. Train within 3 hrs of having eaten this meal and have a much larger meal after your workout; in this meal, add more complex carbs – and you may even have one of your favourite treats as dessert, if it’s not too high in fat and if eaten in moderation. Good examples of what I refer to as ‘treats’: low fat ice cream, sorbet or JC’s cheesecake. Bad example: Chinese buffet or your son’s birthday cake. You get the point, keep it within moderation and don’t pig out.

    • On rest days, eat less calories than on workout days - do this by cutting down on carb intake, and make meat, fibrous veggies and fruit the foundation of your diet for this day. The first meal of the day should be the largest, in contrast to workout days where the post-workout meal is the largest. Largest doesn’t necessarily mean largest in terms of volume; I suggest getting at least 40% of your calorie intake in this meal, and the dominant macronutrient should be protein. I’ll have some clients eating upwards to 100 g protein in this meal, so don’t be afraid to pile on the meat (or whichever protein source you prefer). Fattier meat and fish like ground beef and salmon are examples of some excellent protein sources that may be consumed on rest days.

    • In the last meal of the day, include a slow digesting protein source; preferably egg protein, cottage cheese (or any other source of casein based protein). Meat or fish is also ok if you add veggies or supplement with fiber. This meal will keep you full during the fast and exert an anti-catabolic effect on muscle protein stores by ensuring that your body has an ample supply of amino acids until the next meal.

    • Whole and unprocessed foods should always take priority over processed or liquid foods, unless circumstance demands a compromise. For example, you might find yourself in situations when there is little time to eat or prepare foods – in such a situation, having a protein shake or meal replacement bar is ok, where as solid, more satiating foods should be consumed whenever there is ample time to cook.

    These are a few of the principles I’ve employed with great success; there’s a bit more to it, but this should get you started in the right direction.
    Bumblebeetuna

  3. #1473
    Addicted to Cheerios Jezzah's Avatar
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    So he recommends 3-5 reps for deadlifts and 6-8 for everything else?

    Does anyone know what the secondary exercises are he suggests? I'm assuming rows would be one...

  4. #1474
    Training for an iron butt Icepray's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by docchio View Post
    No offense man but you whinge alot. Seems like IF is not for you yet you act like you HAVE TO follow it because it is going to magically stop you from 'gaining around the waist". The only thing that will stop you from gaining around the waist is a Very slow bulk, a caloric deficit from your diet, or a cardio induced deficit. If you cant get in 3000cals in 8 hours then dont do it. 3000cals in 8 hours is easy as,

    500g chicken, roasted. 820cals 155g protein 18g fat
    1 cup dry oats 340 cals. 58g carb 11.8 pro 6.9 fat
    1 cup dry couscous 650 cals 22g pro 1.1g fat 134g carb
    2 tbsp natty PB 200 cals 6g carb 16g fat 5g pro
    2 tbsp olive oil 240 cals 14g fat

    Protein sludge
    2 scoops ON casein 240 cals 48g pro 6g carb 2g fat
    1/2 cup skim milk 4.3g pro 6.7g carb
    2 large eggs
    25g almond meal

    1 apple 1 pear

    Total 3031 cals

    266 carbs
    272 protein
    95g fat

    That is NOT hard to eat in 8 hours. Srsly. Freeze that protein sludge and it is a tasty ass dessert, can add crushed or whole nuts to it, berries, whatever. Thats not even including salad or vegetables either, which you should be eating lots of.
    Hehe sorry about that, I just really wanted to get IF to work for me but I'm stopping it, this morning I had breakfast and got to say, I missed it xD

    Still going to keep an eye on IF'ing, maybe when I go for a cut I'll give it a try and if not, it's still an interesting subject

    thanks for all your guys answers =)

  5. #1475
    Work. Learn. Win. Dexter3000's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jezzah View Post
    So he recommends 3-5 reps for deadlifts and 6-8 for everything else?

    Does anyone know what the secondary exercises are he suggests? I'm assuming rows would be one...
    Reverse Pyramid Training would be like this (going for all exercises):

    set1: 4 reps, max weight you can do this with
    set2: +1 rep, -10% weight of set 1
    set3: +1 rep, -10% weight of set 2

    Example:
    set1: 100lbs, 4 reps
    set2: 90lbs, 5 reps
    set3: 80lbs, 6-8 reps

    Basically, focus on set 1 which you want to go max effort (and increase next workout). When you are able to do more than 4 reps on set 1, increase the weight. The same goes for when you can do more than 8 reps on set 3 (at least that's what I do). If you prefer 8-12 reps range that's fine also, depending on the exercises and personal preference. This doesn't change the RPT principle. (getting off RPT is a good idea every now and then, it's quite intense) Just see what works for you and what you like, it's a bit of experimenting and IMO these guidelines are to 'guide'.

    Not sure if this is how Martin does things but I do and I'm making great progress since applying this RPT style. I also throw in some light weight/high reps full body workout days in every now and then. It's a nice change from RPT and good for refeed days as well (if you do those). Hope this helps.


    edit: assisting exercises I use are from Doggcrapp training, look it up for some suggestions.

    deadlifts
    chin ups
    bb rows


    bench press
    military press
    dips
    triceps pushdowns


    squats
    leg extensions
    leg curls


    etc.
    Last edited by Dexter3000; 03-15-2011 at 02:10 AM.
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  6. #1476
    Chillin on da ceilin alekkx's Avatar
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    Anyone here train 2 times a week? Just wondering if this would be an affective approach like Martin practises.

  7. #1477
    Approaching Infinity Shazriki's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alekkx View Post
    Anyone here train 2 times a week? Just wondering if this would be an affective approach like Martin practises.
    I think that's only valid for very advanced lifters, when your intensity exceeds your ability to recover you need to reduce frequency, but not before.
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  8. #1478
    Chillin on da ceilin alekkx's Avatar
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    ahh I see.. When should one consider to be an advanced lifter?

  9. #1479
    Approaching Infinity Shazriki's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alekkx View Post
    ahh I see.. When should one consider to be an advanced lifter?
    Not too sure to be honest, I'm more on the other end of the spectrum.
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  10. #1480
    Addicted to Cheerios Jezzah's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dexter3000 View Post
    Reverse Pyramid Training would be like this (going for all exercises):

    set1: 4 reps, max weight you can do this with
    set2: +1 rep, -10% weight of set 1
    set3: +1 rep, -10% weight of set 2

    Example:
    set1: 100lbs, 4 reps
    set2: 90lbs, 5 reps
    set3: 80lbs, 6-8 reps

    Basically, focus on set 1 which you want to go max effort (and increase next workout). When you are able to do more than 4 reps on set 1, increase the weight. The same goes for when you can do more than 8 reps on set 3 (at least that's what I do). If you prefer 8-12 reps range that's fine also, depending on the exercises and personal preference. This doesn't change the RPT principle. (getting off RPT is a good idea every now and then, it's quite intense) Just see what works for you and what you like, it's a bit of experimenting and IMO these guidelines are to 'guide'.

    Not sure if this is how Martin does things but I do and I'm making great progress since applying this RPT style. I also throw in some light weight/high reps full body workout days in every now and then. It's a nice change from RPT and good for refeed days as well (if you do those). Hope this helps.


    edit: assisting exercises I use are from Doggcrapp training, look it up for some suggestions.

    deadlifts
    chin ups
    bb rows


    bench press
    military press
    dips
    triceps pushdowns


    squats
    leg extensions
    leg curls


    etc.
    I was reading about how Martin recommends RPT and was interested in giving it a go. Thanks for simplifying it for people like me that are confused easy haha

  11. #1481
    Addicted to Cheerios Jezzah's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alekkx View Post
    ahh I see.. When should one consider to be an advanced lifter?
    I found Martins opinion of this while browsing the Leangains site.

    "What do I consider a highly advanced level for key lifts, and when do I think people attain a highly advanced training status? When you can do a minimum of 5 reps at 2 x body weight and 2.5 x body weight for squats and deadlifts respectively. More on this topic in a future post."

    I think he means 2x for Bench, he just forgot to write Bench in his post, I'm assuming...
    Last edited by Jezzah; 03-15-2011 at 03:58 AM.

  12. #1482
    Chillin on da ceilin alekkx's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jezzah View Post
    I found Martins opinion of this while browsing the Leangains site.

    "What do I consider a highly advanced level for key lifts, and when do I think people attain a highly advanced training status? When you can do a minimum of 5 reps at 2 x body weight and 2.5 x body weight for squats and deadlifts respectively. More on this topic in a future post."
    I am beyond that on my dead lifts.. but squats no... My squat sux

  13. #1483
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    brb working on bench
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  14. #1484
    I'm VitaminVendetta PerpetualMotion's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alekkx View Post
    ahh I see.. When should one consider to be an advanced lifter?
    Around 2-3 years from what I've read. This is dependent on Alan Aragon's model of muscle gain. Even then, there are people who have trained longer and still train 4 times a week.

  15. #1485
    Sheiko Kunt! blacksmith77's Avatar
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    No
    He meant 2x for squats and 2.5 for deads read it again
    This above all: to thine own self be true,
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  16. #1486
    CEO - Vandelay Industries viennafat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by blacksmith77 View Post
    No
    He meant 2x for squats and 2.5 for deads read it again
    Correct.



    Here's another quote from Martin:
    Generally speaking, people have no business contemplating specialization-routines for lagging body parts until they achieve two out of the following four goals: bench press 1.5 x body weight, chin-up 1.5 x body weight, squat 2 x body weight or deadlift 2.5 x body weight.
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  17. #1487
    Registered User Chachibenji's Avatar
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    Just started IF in the LG approach yesterday, but woah I did not have a big enough meal preworkout, and I am awful training fasted. Definitely almost passed out doing some rows.

    Also, reverse pyramid is just wonderful. It's just SO good. Best rep/set scheme I've ever tried, and I'm excited one of the success stories used it too.
    I wish there was more on inter-set rest periods though, I currently pyramid those to 2-3 minutes, then 1-2 minutes, then 30 seconds-1 min, depending on the intensity of the exercise.

  18. #1488
    dem bad jeans t1ger's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by alekkx View Post
    Anyone here train 2 times a week? Just wondering if this would be an affective approach like Martin practises.
    Well, I'm pretty sure he's only trying to maintain.

  19. #1489
    Registered User ahopetoday1's Avatar
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    I have used IF to get leaner than my current profile pic and I'm ready to start bulking again. If i'm working out 4 days/wk would eating maint calories + 500 on lifting days and maint calories + 100 on rest days be a good suggestion for a lean bulk or should I surplus less on rest days or go under maint on rest days or what would you guys suggest?

  20. #1490
    Registered User pro-tein's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ahopetoday1 View Post
    I have used IF to get leaner than my current profile pic and I'm ready to start bulking again. If i'm working out 4 days/wk would eating maint calories + 500 on lifting days and maint calories + 100 on rest days be a good suggestion for a lean bulk or should I surplus less on rest days or go under maint on rest days or what would you guys suggest?
    I think you are good with that... I did my IF cbulk with maintainance on restdays and +500cals (from carbs) on workout days... worked out very good.
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  21. #1491
    Work in progress... Jonesy08's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dexter3000 View Post
    Reverse Pyramid Training would be like this (going for all exercises):

    set1: 4 reps, max weight you can do this with
    set2: +1 rep, -10% weight of set 1
    set3: +1 rep, -10% weight of set 2

    Example:
    set1: 100lbs, 4 reps
    set2: 90lbs, 5 reps
    set3: 80lbs, 6-8 reps

    Basically, focus on set 1 which you want to go max effort (and increase next workout). When you are able to do more than 4 reps on set 1, increase the weight. The same goes for when you can do more than 8 reps on set 3 (at least that's what I do). If you prefer 8-12 reps range that's fine also, depending on the exercises and personal preference. This doesn't change the RPT principle. (getting off RPT is a good idea every now and then, it's quite intense) Just see what works for you and what you like, it's a bit of experimenting and IMO these guidelines are to 'guide'.

    Not sure if this is how Martin does things but I do and I'm making great progress since applying this RPT style. I also throw in some light weight/high reps full body workout days in every now and then. It's a nice change from RPT and good for refeed days as well (if you do those). Hope this helps.


    edit: assisting exercises I use are from Doggcrapp training, look it up for some suggestions.

    deadlifts
    chin ups
    bb rows


    bench press
    military press
    dips
    triceps pushdowns


    squats
    leg extensions
    leg curls


    etc.
    Thanks for that Dex. So do you think he does the reverse pyramid structure on all moves or just the big main compounds first in the workout?
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  22. #1492
    Registered User coopermax's Avatar
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    Martin stresses weighted chins.... Does he mean underhand(palms facing you) or overhand(back of hands facing you) ? Might be a silly question, but I am suprised how many guys don't know????

  23. #1493
    Leangaining chriskav's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by coopermax View Post
    Martin stresses weighted chins.... Does he mean underhand(palms facing you) or overhand(back of hands facing you) ? Might be a silly question, but I am suprised how many guys don't know????
    Chin ups are palms facing you
    Pull ups are palms facing away from you

  24. #1494
    Registered User coopermax's Avatar
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    So am I correct that Martin recommends CHINS?

  25. #1495
    Leangaining chriskav's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by coopermax View Post
    So am I correct that Martin recommends CHINS?
    Yes, weighted chins if you can handle them

  26. #1496
    Registered User coopermax's Avatar
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    I have always done weighted pull ups, I thought these were much better for the back, as chins hit the bicept pretty hard???

  27. #1497
    Registered User fni's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by coopermax View Post
    I have always done weighted pull ups, I thought these were much better for the back, as chins hit the bicept pretty hard???
    "6. The proper way to perform chins and pullups is with a medium/shoulder width underhand grip (chins) or medium/shoulder width overhand grip (pullups). I often see people using a wide grip for pullups in the hope that it will hit the lats better. This only results in piss poor ROM (range of movement) and sore elbows. Knowing how poorly people tend to perform pullups I often recommend chins as the default lat movement when I can't monitor the client in question. This is a fail-safe way of ensuring good ROM with increasing weights, as people also tend to skimp on ROM when adding more weight to pullups.

    Chins involve a greater total muscle area* than pullups, which is another factor that makes this movement an all round better choice. Pullups on the other hand hit the lats better which is why I might make this the primary choice for lat specialization-routines. Of course, there's no reason you can't include both movements in your training routine.

    * On this particular issue, I am not sure. I recall an old study using electromyography for chins and pullups which found the former to be slightly better in terms of total muscle area activated. I'll look around and see if I can find it. Let me know if you are aware of any evidence to the contrary. Should I be wrong, I still stand by my recommendation for chins as the first hand choice due to the fact that people generally maintain a better ROM for this movement.


    My experience with chins as the default lat movement is that it greatly lessens the need for direct biceps work. Throughout my training career I've performed very little direct work for my biceps. The best biceps growth I ever saw came many years ago when I was training for a one-arm chin-up."

    source: http://www.leangains.com/search/label/Training

  28. #1498
    Registered User ahopetoday1's Avatar
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    does anyone else get harassed by friends/family etc when they first switch over to eating like this. I've been doing IF for about a month now because its so manageable and I've leaned out a good bit while keeping my strength up...so I'm pretty happy with the diet as a whole. Everyone that I know tho is ridiculously worried. My mom started yelling at me because she thought that I was going to whither away and get sick when I told her that I was going to fast throughout the day, then she started another one after she saw me eat one time saying that I was going to become a fatty lol. This diet really gets **** on lol

  29. #1499
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    Originally Posted by ahopetoday1 View Post
    does anyone else get harassed by friends/family etc when they first switch over to eating like this. I've been doing IF for about a month now because its so manageable and I've leaned out a good bit while keeping my strength up...so I'm pretty happy with the diet as a whole. Everyone that I know tho is ridiculously worried. My mom started yelling at me because she thought that I was going to whither away and get sick when I told her that I was going to fast throughout the day, then she started another one after she saw me eat one time saying that I was going to become a fatty lol. This diet really gets **** on lol
    yes everyone at school talks the bro science about how im gonna lose all my muscle since im not eatin lunch....cant wait till i graduate and we have the 5 year reunion with me IF=)

  30. #1500
    Misc Wise Man coals's Avatar
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    I agree with martin on chins vs pullups. Personally I find it hard to maintain good form on pullups without destroying my shoulders, but maybe I'm just doing it wrong.

    With chins I can always feel my lats working (do these dead hang, pause at the bottom for the stretch), get great biceps involvement as well.

    I'm at a point where I really need to start adding weight for these, can't wait, disgonbegood.jpg

    And yeah I get the trash talk. What's even funnier is that people who have known me my entire life as being obese, witnessed my transformation, then when I switched to IF and started making even better progress they complain "you're just a genetic freak".

    B*tch I was an obese 6 year old how you gonna call me out on genetics? ... talk about being unable to accept the truth that broscience is just that.
    أشهد أن لا إله إلاَّ الله و أشهد أن محمد رسول الله
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