EliteFTS Power Rack : Worth The Price Difference?

[mistercakes]

Debating these two.. wondering if the 3x3 is worth it over 2x2

www*flexcart*com/members/elitefts/default.asp?m=PD&pid=6 (2x2)

www*flexcart*com/members/elitefts/default.asp?m=PD&cid=167&pid=2473(3x3)


I also have debated just doing the PowerTec and get a bunch of other stuff.. Anyone out there that has used the PowerTec and Elite and if its worth going for the Elite? Just have heard they have a great rep.

Thanks in advance

sorry for the weird links, i don't have 30 posts yet..

[wolfsburg2]

I haven't used an EliteFTS but I own a Powertec and I've worked out in in just about every kind of awesome commercial rack. My advice is pretty simple, know what your expectations are and what they'll grow to and buy according to a healthy balance with your budget, your wants and your needs.

I lift pretty heavy and the Powertec is doing the job perfectly for me. Of course some of the big boy racks are sweet but they come with added cost, bigger footprints etc. and for the majority of what i am asking of a rack they are 100% the same as my powertec.

basically I chose on value and need. I went powertec brand new but if you can find a good commercial grade rack used, and you have the room, that's a great choice as well.

Hope that helps a little.

[CFF]

Debating these two.. wondering if the 3x3 is worth it over 2x2

www*flexcart*com/members/elitefts/default.asp?m=PD&pid=6 (2x2)

www*flexcart*com/members/elitefts/default.asp?m=PD&cid=167&pid=2473(3x3)


I also have debated just doing the PowerTec and get a bunch of other stuff.. Anyone out there that has used the PowerTec and Elite and if its worth going for the Elite? Just have heard they have a great rep.

Thanks in advance

sorry for the weird links, i don't have 30 posts yet..

Way to much money for either. Check out the Legend Cages! Hands down any of there power cages or fat bar station will rival Elite and then some!!!
http://www.christiansfitnessfactory....rd=legend+Cage

[iPhoneSRQ]

I haven't used an EliteFTS but I own a Powertec and I've worked out in in just about every kind of awesome commercial rack. My advice is pretty simple, know what your expectations are and what they'll grow to and buy according to a healthy balance with your budget, your wants and your needs.

I lift pretty heavy and the Powertec is doing the job perfectly for me. Of course some of the big boy racks are sweet but they come with added cost, bigger footprints etc. and for the majority of what i am asking of a rack they are 100% the same as my powertec.

basically I chose on value and need. I went powertec brand new but if you can find a good commercial grade rack used, and you have the room, that's a great choice as well.

Hope that helps a little.

I can vouch for EliteFTS I have one of there 2x2 racks and it's super sturdy, lots of safety adjustments, and well worth the extra $$$....best of luck with your decision

[Jimbo.]

I can vouch for EliteFTS I have one of there 2x2 racks and it's super sturdy, lots of safety adjustments, and well worth the extra $$$....best of luck with your decision

Your rack and weights are all kinds of badass man. I saw you posted pics in the pic only thread, so I am commenting on them here, sorry for the momentary hijack...

[oxbeard]

I can vouch for EliteFTS I have one of there 2x2 racks and it's super sturdy, lots of safety adjustments, and well worth the extra $$$....best of luck with your decision

Yeah, I saw those pics also. Wondered what type of rack it was. Very awesome looking.

Of course with that said, I have been looking at the Legend racks for an upgrade in a few months. Got their 4way bench on the way and will make my decision based on that.

[Wildtim]

I'd say the elite would be worth it if you can afford it and really want it. I myself am stuck with used stuff, and will never need all that Elite can bring.

[Unbreakable09]

Of course with that said, I have been looking at the Legend racks for an upgrade in a few months. Got their 4way bench on the way and will make my decision based on that.

Sorry, don't mean to hijack, but please do a detailed review when you get that bench. I'd be very interested in it.

[CFF]

Agreed, would love to know what you think of it as there are very few commercial (actual commercial) 4 way benches out there. We would love to post your opinion on our blog or you can at blog.christiansfitnessfactory.com
The only thing I think they could have done better is widen the base. Otherwise they did a great job. The seat adjustment is like the Icarian Super Bench with the half moon seat adjustment design that gives it great pad stability. And for the price of $495 you can not beat it!

[Manzooka]

Hey man. I've owned a 3x3 “build-your-own” EliteFTS rack for all of... oh let's see, two weeks now? So I’ll offer my 2 cents but take it for what it's worth.

So far I’m a huge fan of the rack. Love the rock-solid stability, love the functionality, love the unnecessary extras (monkey bar, chain and band storage, plate storage, logo backing etc) and I love the aesthetics. Is all of that worth the extra cash when you get a quality rack for 25%-50% of the cost that will help you meet the same training goals? Well, that's a question we can only answer individually.

I won't rehash it here but if you check the power rack thread you'll see that there was a problem with my rack when it arrived. Not a quality issue but an omission. It wasn't an easy fix, but EliteFTS offered up multiple solutions and worked with me until I was completely satisfied, so I can certainly vouch for their customer service.

I noted a few differences between the 2x2 and the 3x3. You probably spotted these already but just in case...

- The 2x2 offers 1 inch hole spacing in the midrange while the 3x3 offers 1.5 inch spacing. Both are pretty nice, but the 1 inch could allow for a slightly more personalized fit.

- The 2x2 doesn’t appear to offer quick release spot pins. Not a necessity I know, but I’ve really come to appreciate them. Also looks like they offer a wider range of accessories on the 3x3’s if you’re interested in those things.

- There’s also a 5" difference between the two EFS racks, with the 3x3 being the taller model at 7'5". The Powertek rack is another 4" shorter than the 2x2 EFS at about 6'6" according to specs on their website. Thought they might be a consideration for a guy of 6’2”.

The good news here is that (imo) you really can't go wrong by choosing any of the three racks you mentioned.

[HardKore79]

Way to much money for either. Check out the Legend Cages! Hands down any of there power cages or fat bar station will rival Elite and then some!!!
http://www.christiansfitnessfactory....rd=legend+Cage

Even though I was close to buying a Legend cage, I wouldn't suggest them over an EliteFTS cage. It just doesn't make you look good when you compare them together. Posting links to your own site doesn't help either. I would love to pick up an EFS rack and considering their adjust-ability and also the many options they have, my money would definitely go for them. But really, if a guy is set on getting one, you offering a Legend rack, is like offering a Hyundai instead of a Honda.

I say go with the EFS rack if you can and going 2x2 is pretty standard even by Louie Simmons and the guys at WB that lift a huge amount of weights. Keep in mind that this type of racks are recommended to be bolted on the floor, either on concrete or a special build platform for it.

[Kodokan]

Even though I was close to buying a Legend cage, I wouldn't suggest them over an EliteFTS cage. It just doesn't make you look good when you compare them together. Posting links to your own site doesn't help either. I would love to pick up an EFS rack and considering their adjust-ability and also the many options they have, my money would definitely go for them. But really, if a guy is set on getting one, you offering a Legend rack, is like offering a Hyundai instead of a Honda.

I say go with the EFS rack if you can and going 2x2 is pretty standard even by Louie Simmons and the guys at WB that lift a huge amount of weights. Keep in mind that this type of racks are recommended to be bolted on the floor, either on concrete or a special build platform for it.

The legend racks are really good, and worth considering IMO if you are thinking an EFS rack. The EFS racks have some great features which aren't present on legend ones...tighter hole spacing and I think the walkthrough design is better on EFS.

But still, the legends are great. Very beefy, very sturdy, and high quality. Lots of options and add ons too. And, less cost than EFS. But, if you're considering them. Call someone at legendfitness.com. You'll get the best price from them directly i think.

I went with a legend rack, thinking that the few plus's EFS had over legend weren't worth the huge price difference. I love the rack I got, too.

[CFF]

Even though I was close to buying a Legend cage, I wouldn't suggest them over an EliteFTS cage. It just doesn't make you look good when you compare them together. Posting links to your own site doesn't help either. I would love to pick up an EFS rack and considering their adjust-ability and also the many options they have, my money would definitely go for them. But really, if a guy is set on getting one, you offering a Legend rack, is like offering a Hyundai instead of a Honda.

I say go with the EFS rack if you can and going 2x2 is pretty standard even by Louie Simmons and the guys at WB that lift a huge amount of weights. Keep in mind that this type of racks are recommended to be bolted on the floor, either on concrete or a special build platform for it.

So forget the fact I sell the rack, because I can sell Elite as well, I just choose not to, but lets talk about the racks themselves and what they offer for the price. Apples to apples!
To start I am not going to even bother with the 2 x 2 because the legend's 3 x 3 is already cheaper to begin. Here it is:

EliteFTS
3 x 3 tubing
11 guage steel
1 pair of J-hooks
1 pair of spotter bars
Does not provide information for 3x 3 but 2 x 2 is 2” center to center.
Chin Bar (does not list thickness)
Dimesions:
The total foot print is 49"x61". Height not listed
Weight Storage
Options:
*Quick Release Spot Pins
*Step Ups
*Dip Attachment
Price:
3 x 3 Power rack - $1195
2 x 2 Power rack - $975



Legend
3 x 3 tubing
11 guage steel
1 pair of J-hooks
1 pair of spotter bars
2” center to center hole spacing is standard
The Power Cage has one, Fat Bar Station has two (One that is an 1” thick and the other 1 3/8” Thick)
Power Cage: 59L X 64W X 88H
Fat Bar Power Station: 59L X 64W X 88H
Weight Storage
Options:
*beefy Spotter Arms
*Beef Plyo Peg Spotter Arms
*Upper Plyo band Pegs
*Lower Plyo Band Pegs
*Step Ups
*Single or Double Landmines
*Inverted Saftey Arms
*Additional J-Hooks
*Pro Style Cross member w/additional pull up options and attachments
*Ability to add a platform & insert
Price:
Power Cage (Model 3133) - $985
Fat Bar Power Station (Model 3171)$1026

I don't see where the EliteFTS rack is a better value than the Legend Power Cage (3133) or Fat Bar Power Station (3171). I am just speaking as someone who uses these racks. Please enlighten me. Have you ever phsyically seen or used a Legend rack or compared them fully. Legend offers the same quality, more options, and at a better price we haven't even touch the Pro cages/racks!

Fat Bar Power Station:

Power Cage w/Pro Cross member upgrade:

Elitfts Power Rack:

[keyboardworkout]

I think if I was to get a new rack it would be one of the basic Westside 2x3 racks from Rogue. You could probably get away without bolting it down if you don't use bands.

http://www.roguefitness.com/store/rogue_r3.php

[CFF]

I think if I was to get a new rack it would be one of the basic Westside 2x3 racks from Rogue. You could probably get away without bolting it down if you don't use bands.

http://www.roguefitness.com/store/rogue_r3.php

Don't you think it would tip at only 30" in depth. If you are looking at cheaper racks, I would tend to look at the Promaxima Racks like the Wide Power Rack or Texas Power Meet rack. They run under mid four hundred to seven.

Promaxima Wide Power Rack

Texas Power Meet Rack

[CBoxer]

FWIW I think the 3x3 EFS rack has 1.5 inch spacing in the bench area and the sumo base for those that are into that kind of stuff. For the person that is, $100-$200 is nothing when you're already spending well over a grand for a rack.

[FatGymRat]

OK, so the OP asked about whether or not is was worth the extra cash to step up to the 3x3 Elite FTS vs a 2x2..

and whether it was worth it at all to consider Elite FTS vs just buying a Powertec, leaving some of the budget for accessories.

I do think it's worth it to stay with Elite FTS if you are considering a rack at that caliber (meaning some of the best racks available).
Nothing against those who chose to go with P'tec, but they are all Chinese made. Williams/EFS are US made.

As for the 2x2 vs 3x3... For only a little bit more, I like the extra strength and beefier appearance of the 3x3. (even if I don't really need it to be any stronger than the 2x2)

[FatGymRat]

Check out the Legend Cages! Hands down any of there power cages or fat bar station will rival Elite and then some!!! [ham-handed spam post of poster's website removed]

We would love to post your opinion on our blog or you can at blog.christiansfitnessfactory.com
The only thing I think they could have done better is widen the base. Otherwise they did a great job. The seat adjustment is like the Icarian Super Bench with the half moon seat adjustment design that gives it great pad stability. And for the price of $495 you can not beat it!

So forget the fact I sell the rack, because I can sell Elite as well, I just choose not to, but lets talk about the racks themselves and what they offer for the price. Apples to apples!

[comparisons removed, see my next post]

Please enlighten me. Have you ever phsyically seen or used a Legend rack or compared them fully. Legend offers the same quality, more options, and at a better price we haven't even touch the Pro cages/racks!

So go start a Legend thread that Dave Tate can hijack... Wait, he wouldn't take such a desperate step.

---------------

Don't you think it would tip at only 30" in depth. If you are looking at cheaper racks, I would tend to look at the Promaxima Racks like the Wide Power Rack or Texas Power Meet rack. They run under mid four hundred to seven.

Promaxima Wide Power Rack

I know that another poster popped in with a lower priced rack comment, but posting a pic of a CRAP rack with stamped tin C-channel uprights in a thread about EFS and Powertec is like saying 'check out this moped!' in a drag bike thread.

---------------

The spambot posted this image to represent EFS, and I have to say that I would spend the extra dough for this one... although maybe not in white.

Elitfts Power Rack:
[/QUOTE]

[FatGymRat]

EliteFTS
3 x 3 tubing
11 guage steel
1 pair of J-hooks
1 pair of spotter bars
Does not provide information for 3x3 but 2x2 is 2” center to center.

FALSE: through the bench area, the 3x3 is 1.5" centers, and the 2x2 is 1" centers.

Also, each hole is numbered on each of the 4 posts, which makes setting pins and J-hooks easier each time.

To me, these are two critical points in favor of the EFS

Chin Bar (does not list thickness)
Dimnesions:
The total foot print is 49"x61". Height not listed
Weight Storage
Options:
*Quick Release Spot Pins
*Step Ups
*Dip Attachment
Price:
3 x 3 Power rack - $1195
2 x 2 Power rack - $975

Legend
3 x 3 tubing
11 guage steel
1 pair of J-hooks
1 pair of spotter bars
2” center to center hole spacing is standard
The Power Cage has one, Fat Bar Station has two (One that is an 1” thick and the other 1 3/8” Thick)
Power Cage: 59L X 64W X 88H
Fat Bar Power Station: 59L X 64W X 88H
Weight Storage
Options:

Price:
Power Cage (Model 3133) - $985
Fat Bar Power Station (Model 3171)$1026

I don't see where the EliteFTS rack is a better value than the Legend Power Cage (3133) or Fat Bar Power Station (3171). I am just speaking as someone who uses these racks. Please enlighten me. Have you ever phsyically seen or used a Legend rack or compared them fully. Legend offers the same quality, more options, and at a better price we haven't even touch the Pro cages/racks!

Fat Bar Power Station:

Power Cage w/Pro Cross member upgrade:

Elitfts Power Rack:

Also, note that the EFS has a sumo base (meaning that the bottom front-to-rear supports are elevated to allow 6" clearance). This gives a lot of extra toe room for wide sumo-stance lifters.

ANOTHER critical point in favor of the EFS...
The EFS racks are designed more intelligently, period.

Also, because there are 4 smaller points of contact with the floor instead of two rails LAYING on the ground, the EFS is more forgiving on unevenly poured basement and garage pads.

IMO, if you are going to attempt to scavenge the 'purchase' threads in the EQ area & spam-up the threads in an attempt to poach deals, at least know the correct specs and the value-add features of the products you are disparaging as you hock your own crap.

[CFF]

First off 2" center to center is every 1". You can not have 1" or even 1.5" because you would not have any steel in between the hole. This picture demonstrates what I am speaking of.

So in regard to that, the Elite and legend are the same. I have to agree, the numbering does make it idiot proof. As for the lower end Promaxima racks, I was just commenting that if you are going with the cheaper Rogue rack, the Texas power meet rack in my opinion was a better bet. Dollar for Dollar that is. I do have a question though. Is the rack going to be needed for floor benching? I had a guy come in my shop that is pretty high up in the strongman world and he was looking at a used Icarian rack. His comment that was, he did not like any of the racks because the holes did not come down to the bottom of the rack and so he could not do floor benching. I check out the Legend and this is a flaw they have as well. As for the footing, I would have to have the rack on uneven floor to say that the footing of one is better than the other. My whole point of pointing out legend was to show an equal comparison for less. Like I said we carry both.
But the bottom line here is just as Fatgymrat said, which rack do you go with from ElitFTS? Hands down, spend the extra $200 and get the ElitFTS 3 x 3 rack. Why wouldn't you. The difference in stability between the thicker and heavier rack is more than worth the $200!

[wolfsburg2]

Take it easy fatgymrat. I like the added insight Christian brings and I dont think he's spamming or comi off as a sales guy. He does sell and does have experience so how could he post here and not refernce it?

Anyway I am now getting rack envy. I might haveto sell my powertec and get a big boy rack. Dam. You equipment crew, damn you all.

[CBoxer]

First off 2" center to center is every 1". You can not have 1" or even 1.5" because you would not have any steel in between the hole. This picture demonstrates what I am speaking of.

It is 1 inch center to center on 2x2. I'll post a pic later when I get home.

Between the 2x2 and 3x3, I would say it depends on if you're bolting it down or not. The 3x3 is obviously heavier, but if you were to bolt it down anyway I'd say save the money and go 2x2. The 3x3 won't handle any more weight and nobody is about to max out either. Now if you have the cash to get a 3x3 with the monkey chin bar then that would be tough to pass up.

[HardKore79]

Take it easy fatgymrat. I like the added insight Christian brings and I dont think he's spamming or comi off as a sales guy. He does sell and does have experience so how could he post here and not refernce it?

Just for reference, CFF has had about 3 or 4 accounts on here pushing his products and spamming this board. He has been banned before with other names for doing it and it looks like he has cleaned up, but I find it funny that he never recommends anything he doesn't sell.

[HardKore79]

First off 2" center to center is every 1". You can not have 1" or even 1.5" because you would not have any steel in between the hole. This picture demonstrates what I am speaking of.

So in regard to that, the Elite and legend are the same. I have to agree, the numbering does make it idiot proof. As for the lower end Promaxima racks, I was just commenting that if you are going with the cheaper Rogue rack, the Texas power meet rack in my opinion was a better bet. Dollar for Dollar that is. I do have a question though. Is the rack going to be needed for floor benching? I had a guy come in my shop that is pretty high up in the strongman world and he was looking at a used Icarian rack. His comment that was, he did not like any of the racks because the holes did not come down to the bottom of the rack and so he could not do floor benching. I check out the Legend and this is a flaw they have as well. As for the footing, I would have to have the rack on uneven floor to say that the footing of one is better than the other. My whole point of pointing out legend was to show an equal comparison for less. Like I said we carry both.
But the bottom line here is just as Fatgymrat said, which rack do you go with from ElitFTS? Hands down, spend the extra $200 and get the ElitFTS 3 x 3 rack. Why wouldn't you. The difference in stability between the thicker and heavier rack is more than worth the $200!

The pic that you posted has no relation to the EFS racks. Have you ever seen even a pic of how it's constructed? Apparently not! I believe their safety rods are 3/8" with a bigger sleeve over it. It's not 1" safety rod like the pic is. That's how they are able to do it. Here's a pic of it and please stop assuming when you, yourself refuse to see even a pic of it. The rack I'm attaching is 2x2 rack:

[ndmike99]

First off 2" center to center is every 1". You can not have 1" or even 1.5" because you would not have any steel in between the hole. This picture demonstrates what I am speaking of.

So in regard to that, the Elite and legend are the same. I have to agree, the numbering does make it idiot proof. As for the lower end Promaxima racks, I was just commenting that if you are going with the cheaper Rogue rack, the Texas power meet rack in my opinion was a better bet. Dollar for Dollar that is. I do have a question though. Is the rack going to be needed for floor benching? I had a guy come in my shop that is pretty high up in the strongman world and he was looking at a used Icarian rack. His comment that was, he did not like any of the racks because the holes did not come down to the bottom of the rack and so he could not do floor benching. I check out the Legend and this is a flaw they have as well. As for the footing, I would have to have the rack on uneven floor to say that the footing of one is better than the other. My whole point of pointing out legend was to show an equal comparison for less. Like I said we carry both.
But the bottom line here is just as Fatgymrat said, which rack do you go with from ElitFTS? Hands down, spend the extra $200 and get the ElitFTS 3 x 3 rack. Why wouldn't you. The difference in stability between the thicker and heavier rack is more than worth the $200!

The EliteFTS 3x3 does have closer spacing, it also does list the height at 7'5". I like that feature, but I am also torn because I prefer the 1 inch holes. With the 1 inch holes you can buy standard pipe as extra rails and it is easier to find j hooks and optional items from New York Barbell.

[Wildtim]

The EliteFTS 3x3 does have closer spacing, it also does list the height at 7'5". I like that feature, but I am also torn because I prefer the 1 inch holes. With the 1 inch holes you can buy standard pipe as extra rails and it is easier to find j hooks and optional items from New York Barbell.

I can see wanting extra options at a lower cost than these high end manufacturers charge but the attachments from Elite, or Legend for that matter are going to be much much stronger and better made then anything NYBB has to offer. I wouldn't bother to pay the high dollar for the top of the line rack and then use low end accessories. Your rack is only as good as its hooks and spotter bars.

As far as the smaller than one inch holes, they are just there to be able to get tighter hole spacing for more adjustable spotters an hooks. I know my workouts would be enhanced if I could get the exact perfect height for my bench lift off, or rack pulls. I would feel even safer if I could set my spotters to the exact perfect depth. This is, however, one of those features that is quite expensive and everyone has to decide for themselves if it is worth it.

[Wildtim]

As far as the Elite Legend debate going on here I have to say cool it. Me one of the guys most likely to be a smart arse after HK.

CFF has made some very valuable contributions to this forum lately and in the past. If he was going to suggest a different brand I can't blame hime for using a like to his store, thats both smart and I'm sure the most comvenient thing for him to do.

Also comparing every brand he sells to elite and to the other racks mentioned in this thread. The Legend is clostest in both construction, options and ballpark price. If I were considering a rack in this catagory they would both be right next to each other on my list and I would be racking my brain over the differences to decide which actually comes out ahead. Also I don't thik any of the other racks mentioned in this thread are quite as high on the list so it was a good option to offer.

[keyboardworkout]

The Legend Fitness Louie Simmons Combo Cage #3230 is another option close to EliteFTS' offerings.

http://www.legendfitness.com/equipment.php?id=120



You’ve seen the imitators, now behold the only cage on the market designed to the exacting standards of Louie Simmons of Westside Barbell. Some of the world’s most powerful men use this sturdy device everyday, and it has never been broken. Unlike any other cage on the market, this cage features 1″ incremental loading and spotting graduating to 2″ for a total of 41 adjustment points. Elevated base bars accommodate extra wide sumo stances. The Combo Cage comes with adjustable band pegs on both the top and bottom of the cage. The set-up also includes pull-up bar, weight plate storage, and band storage pegs.

Shipping Weight: 398lbs.
Measurements: (LxWxH):47"X68"X87"

[ndmike99]

I can see wanting extra options at a lower cost than these high end manufacturers charge but the attachments from Elite, or Legend for that matter are going to be much much stronger and better made then anything NYBB has to offer. I wouldn't bother to pay the high dollar for the top of the line rack and then use low end accessories. Your rack is only as good as its hooks and spotter bars.

As far as the smaller than one inch holes, they are just there to be able to get tighter hole spacing for more adjustable spotters an hooks. I know my workouts would be enhanced if I could get the exact perfect height for my bench lift off, or rack pulls. I would feel even safer if I could set my spotters to the exact perfect depth. This is, however, one of those features that is quite expensive and everyone has to decide for themselves if it is worth it.

The problem is these companies do not make the attachments I was thinking. Although they do my hooks and rails I was thinking more in line with the dumbbell trays (which I just ordered):

http://www.newyorkbarbells.com/0320.html

Also, I would not suggest using 1 inch pipe as actual safety rails, but they could be useful for partial reps and things of that nature without having to spend a lot of extra. I have also seen a lot of people who have reverse hyper benches made for their power racks. It seems this would also be easier with 1 inch holes. I would love it if EFS or Legend offered more options (dumbbell trays) or a reverse hyper insert. It would also be cool if one of these manufacturers could come up with something like this:

http://www.rogersathletic.com/streng...ms.asp?pid=216

It would be even better if you could control the convergence of the arms with some type of cam.

[Wildtim]

The problem is these companies do not make the attachments I was thinking. Although they do my hooks and rails I was thinking more in line with the dumbbell trays (which I just ordered):

http://www.newyorkbarbells.com/0320.html

Also, I would not suggest using 1 inch pipe as actual safety rails, but they could be useful for partial reps and things of that nature without having to spend a lot of extra. I have also seen a lot of people who have reverse hyper benches made for their power racks. It seems this would also be easier with 1 inch holes. I would love it if EFS or Legend offered more options (dumbbell trays) or a reverse hyper insert. It would also be cool if one of these manufacturers could come up with something like this:

http://www.rogersathletic.com/streng...ms.asp?pid=216

It would be even better if you could control the convergence of the arms with some type of cam.

I've never understood what that really gets you that you don't get from push presses.