DustyChicago's Keto Log: 27, active single male, endomorph, 5'11:

[DustyChicago]

Boring Title, but I wanted to make it an easy search. Here we go.

Intro

I hope this log helps some young man like myself. I live passionately, which means I'm devoted to working hard which results in 70-80 hr work weeks. I am also passionate about my family, my friends, and my city and I try to enjoy every bit of my life, especially in the summer. I wont let keto keep me from doing the things I love, which means an occasional off period and I will describe those as they happen.

History

2 years ago I was around 215lbs and although I wasnt terribly out of shape, I got serious about nutrition and lifting weights. I bought, read, and still use this book for lifting and for a year until I found keto I used the nutrition advice. http://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-Lift.../dp/1583332383

At the end of April 2010, I was in pretty good shape after nearly a year of following the "New Rules of Lifting" but I started keto. Thats the first picture.

I did keto for 8 weeks and it was awesome. Check the results in the second picture.

I took 9 weeks off in the summer. I worked 70-80 hours as a bar-tender on a Chicago tour boat and partied 5-7 nights a week. Injuries (many that resulted from partying too hard) kept me from working out all summer, but I did ride my bicycle for 20 or more miles a day and working on the boat offers some opportunities for exercise (try hauling wet lines (the ropes for you non-mariners) around for half an hour.) I paid some attention to what I ate, mainly focusing on getting my req protein and avoiding too much simple sugar/carbohydrate. Check the results of my summer of partying in the third picture.

September started and I got back on ckd, but two weeks into it I discovered I had a broken wrist from a bicycle accident. I switched to SKD at a 500 cal deficit and did only cardio and ab work during the 6 weeks my wrist healed, save a 4 day fishing trip when I was completely off the diet. This was a mistake, as I did not up my cals enough and lost LBM.

When I healed at the end of October I started lifting again on the "New Rules" program and I usually add a day or two of HIIT in the gym. I carbed up around every 2-3 weeks, but pretty much as soon as I felt I needed it, or a social event on the weekend, and I am a Bears season ticket holder, so tail-gating counts. Besides that, I stopped counting my calories and my diet during the week consisted of casein, heavy cream, salami, cheese, spinach, bacon, eggs, tuna, broc, whey, and natty pb. I am also fortunate to have a cheap source of grass fed beef so I eat beef daily prepared in a number of different ways, but my favorites are stroganoff with broc instead of noodles and steak with some decent spices served on spinach with oil and vinegar dressing. When December hit and I had 2 weeks vacation, I did not stay on Keto but followed generally low carb and also missed a hand full of workouts. I started back seriously this last week, but I partied on friday and saturday this weekend which meant I was definitely knocked out of keto. Which brings me to today. Thats the last pic and I'm weighing in at 181lbs. I was unable to check my body fat because the gym lost it

Allright, I think that's it. I'll try to post weekly and include information on how to deal with social events as they come about. Below is my former signature which basically sums up all the above information and gives weight/bf

6/21/10 175lbs /9.5% bf
Summer of drinking and partying
9/22/10 193lbs / 14.5%bf
9/26/10 187lbs / 13.5% bf
10/4/10 187lbs/ 11.5% bf
Broken wrist, weekend fishing trip/3 day dirty carb-up
10/12/10 191lbs/ 11.5% bf
10/19/10 186lbs/ 10.5% bf
10/26/10 184lbs/ 10.5% bf
11/2/10 182lbs/ 14% bf (new gym, new bf scale)
11/9/10 179lbs/ 13.5% bf
11/16/10 182lbs/ 12.5% bf
11/25/10 179lbs/ 10.8% bf
12/5/10 179.5 lbs, 10.6% bf
12/11/10 176.5 10.5% bf

1/9/10 181.4lbs/ ?%bf

[DustyChicago]

and the side view


oh yeah, i'm real harry and should probably learn how to pose


today's lifting

squat 4x10x195
deadlif 4x10x195

bulgarian split squat 4x10x25
step up 4x10x30

reverse crunch, 3x15 on a flat surface.

[DustyChicago]

daily
2 generic multi
2 generic gluco/condro
6 fish oil
5 "Strong Bones" metamucil fiber pills
2 BCAA 4 hours

4 days a week I take 1 ECA stack pill.

pre workout I take a spoon of MCT GOLD and 1 scoop white flood. post workout I use whey, creatine, and 10g of the carb-sup Gener8 Vitargo

[devildogJMS]

oh yeah, i'm real harry and should probably learn how to pose

Looks like you should do a different kinda cutting....lol j/k

[DustyChicago]

My usual schedule has me lifting Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, and Sunday. I'll also throw in some cardio and ab work on Wednesday, Monday, or after one of the lifting days. This week I only got my Tuesday and Thursday weight training in. Thursday was good and I was able to go 5x5 supersets of squat/deadlift at 245-265... I'm pretty sure that means I'm strong.

I missed my weekend workouts because I went on a ski trip with a group of 17 friends. I was off the diet. In fact, I ski'd for 8+ hours on Saturday (which is actually a work out and my calfs are still sore.) I also drank about 14 beers that I was carrying in a backpack while skiing. I ate what we made, but loaded up on meat and eggs to make sure I got my protein requirements.

Back to eating Keto today and the mirror does not show any ill-effects from the weekend. One underrated part of the keto lifestyle is the ease of going in and out of keto if you're fat-adapted. It allows me to do things like this Ski trip and not let it turn into weeks/months/years of unhealthy eating and activity. For those starting keto, I often see threads with people stressing the **** out about being into ketosis and sticking to the diet, but for this guy, I know I like the lifestyle and can return to it and see results quickly.

[DustyChicago]

I'm up early this Sunday, but its not to work out. I'll be going to the NFC Championship game today and I am PUMPED. My prediction is 24-14 Bears.

Anyway, the week of Keto went good... all my lifts continue to increase and I'm hovering around 185 with clothes, shoes, and ipod. I havent checked my BF% in weeks, but I'm less concerned with it right now because my goals right now would be more accurately described as recomp or bulk than cut.

I have a reflection on some of the threads of seen lately: I see a lot of people start on keto and post actively for a couple of weeks. I then see these people post about changing their diet and I wonder if these people will ever be successful using Keto or if the lifestyle is just too difficult for them to follow. If you decide to cut, cut for however long you've planned for or until you've reached your goal. Alternatively, lift heavy, eat keto during the week and on weekends when social events will not get in the way. Following this easy philosophy following my original 8 week cut has led to fantastic results and more important, I find my physique very easy to maintain this way.

I'll likely be continuing on the keto M-F + weekends when nothing is going on for another 12-24 weeks as my lifting routine shifts from one based on muscle growth to one based on strength increase. Following all of that, I expect to do another 8 week cut. As a specific goal, I'd like to be 180 or less and have 10% BF or less, which is not lofty whatsoever. The more important goal is to have a better pic then the one after my original cut last year, which you can see on the first post of this thread.

[DustyChicago]

****... I just returned from Soldier Field. Those refs delivered the game to the ****ing packers. **** them. I wont even watch the superbowl this year.

Anyway, I did end up getting my workout in:

4x10 squats super-setted with deadlifts at 195
4x10 bulgarian split-squats super-setted with step-ups with 25lb dumbells
3x15 reverse crunch

it was good workout, really had me sweating. I think I can up the lbs on the step-ups next 4x10 workout tho.

Weighed myself and did the handheld BF for the first time in a long time.

181lbs, 12.4% BF

Seems right about where I should be and I still look good/big in the mirror.


Oh yeah, Bears game/tail gate went like this: beers, chilli, mac & cheese, wings, jumbalaya, sliders, gin&tonic. Pretty good, but thinking about it, it all taste like **** considering the Bears lost. ****.

[DustyChicago]

Another great week of keto. I felt strong all week, increasing all lifts until Sunday.

I started my carb-up/cheat on Friday night and went into the wee hours of Sunday morning. Again, as my goal is not fat-loss right now, a depletion workout did not precede and I did not really watch macros or count calories.

I woke up on sunday and was back to keto. Had bacon and eggs and that was it until my workout at 4pm. I think the semi-hang over and lack of food prior to the work out contributed to failure on the last sets of 3x15 super set routine. Its the first time in a long time that I was not able to improve since the last workout, and I'm hoping it was the hangover/lack of cals and not loss of strength.

Anyway, stepped on the scale and it read like this: 181lbs, 12.1% BF.

My long-term goal is to be 180lbs and sub-10% BF. In the short term, I'm looking for strength increases, so I've been eating more.

Speaking of, I made an awesome keto dish that I'll be posting in the recipe section.

[DustyChicago]

Another good week of keto. I again consumed carbs Friday and Saturday, socially. Fortunately the weak workouts from last week did not repeat and I felt strong today as I squated and deadlifted. Its the last workout of a 6 week hypertrophy program and I'll be starting a strength program on tuesday... which brings me to the idea of spacing workouts.

For a young person who works long hours and keeps a good amount of social engagements, what is the best way to get in 4-5 workouts a week?

My split for my strength program will be Tuesday for squats/lower, Wednesday for abs and cardio, Thursday for Bench/upper, rest on Friday, Deadlifts/lower on Saturday, Sunday for chin-ups/uppers, and rest on Monday.

For me, I love this program because it allows me to really focus and take my time on Saturday and Sunday. It also allows me time to get other things done, like cooking meals ahead of time and deal with various chores, on Monday nights and Wednesday nights. It also has the added advantage making adjustments easier than the typical 5 day split with weekends off.

[DustyChicago]

Damn, I ran out of my ECA Stack and didnt have caffeine yesterday. My job performance was diminished and today I made sure to drink a cup of coffee... much better. If you're like me and you expend a lot of energy at work, caffeine is a must.

Also, I'm switching from a hypertrophy program to a strength program. The hypertrophy went well and I definitely noticed muscle growth with minimum fat increases. I'll try and get pics up on Sunday. Major differences include 4 different workouts a week rather than 2 and short sets and 1 rep maxes. After work to day I'll do 6 sets of squat, the first four will alternate between 4 reps and 1 rep and the last two sets will be 10 reps and 15 reps.

[DustyChicago]

The week of wave-loading lifting went well, but the diet is slipping a bit. I left it Thursday night when my roommate was D****ng at a bar and this Saturday and Sunday because of other social events. A big factor with my neglect is the way I am lifting. The objective is NOT to cut fat, its more on building strength.

Also, this was the first time I flat barbell benched in probably 5 months. Even though I'm not a big fan of the movement, its a benchmark (pun intended) lift in common parlance, so its good for something. I threw up 235. I'd like to be up to 255 or above in the next 6 weeks so, I think I'll continue to eat more.

Also, a staple in my diet has become this general recipe

ground beef+broc+whatever spices, seasoning, sauces I want. Its great.

[DustyChicago]

Well, I feel as if this is slowly become a regular low-carb log rather than a CKD log. This last weekend I drank beers on Saturday night, ate what I wanted on Sunday and Monday. My lifting on Saturday and Sunday were both strong and I'm really struggling on when to begin a more strict cut.

I'd like some input. My ultimate goal is to be around 180lbs and less than 10% BF and I really dont think this is all that ambitious, but I'd wonder what you all would suggest.

Should I continue my routine hoping to build muscle (I'm currently ~185 and ~14% BF) or should I start my cut sooner with the assumption I already have enough LBM to reach my goal.

[rusrious]

Hey D, Hows that wrist treatin ya?

i looked at the pics, but you have a blanket over ya, lol, JK Bro,

What do you think is possible bro? How is your progress over the last month? Making any gains?

If you lose just the fat, Im betting you would drop down to 165-170 before you got to 10%BF, maybe even lower.

Im not sure what to say really, I have my own unique thinking about things.

Whats your diet look like today?

You come along way D, keep rockin it, see what happens

[DustyChicago]

Making gains on lifts through 2 weeks in my wave-loading strength program

And ya, I'm hairy as a mofo.



Ya, the last time I was sub 10% I was 171, that was about 16 months ago, but I'm hoping to get more LBM.

The diet M-F is tight as always.

Wake and Bed, Casein + heavy whipping cream

Snacks, 2 eggs, 2 strips bacon, 1 serving salami, half cup of spinach, 1 colby cheese stick.

Big Meal = a cup of ground beef with cheese and broc

PWO = 1 scoop whey, 10 g vitargo, 1 tsp creatine, half hour later, sludge (1 scoop, 1 spoon, 1 splash heavy whipping cream.)

[mearsa30]

Good work on the diet, you look similar to me when i am around your weight, just a million times more hairy as i have hardly any body hair, lol.

From your pics you dont really look like an endomorph, but maybe i dont know what one is exactly, my thoughts were they were people with big wide hips and narrow shoulders (in relation to waist) with shortish torso and big legs. You dont look like that to me, which is a good thing obviously!

Anyway keep up the good work im sure you will be ripped in no time!

[alex2363]

and the side view


oh yeah, i'm real harry and should probably learn how to pose


today's lifting

squat 4x10x195
deadlif 4x10x195

bulgarian split squat 4x10x25
step up 4x10x30

reverse crunch, 3x15 on a flat surface.

you are kinda hairy,lol

[alex2363]

not too much,lol

[DustyChicago]

As I've been on this pseudo-bulk recomp, I've not felt the need to keep a close log, but my routine did switch.

I'm weighing in at 188 and all my lifts are way up. I'm noticing slightly more belly fat, but clothes still fit great. I'm going to continue with my pseduo-keto-bulk for another 4-6 weeks, depending on how things go. I want to be able to fit in a good 8 weeks of straight CKD cutting

The routine is changing from a 4 day wave-loading split to a 4 day split with 3 sets of 4 and then quarter movements. For example, yesterday I squated like this:

full squats
3x 4 reps at 275
12 reps at 225
quarter squats (where you only go down a quarter of the way)
3x 3 reps at 315

Supper-Setted
2x10 Good morning at 105
2x10 Dynamic Lunge (both legs) at 105

2x6 swiss ball crunch with 90 pounds, 2 seconds up, hold 2 seconds, 2 seconds down.

The idea is each week you get stronger and that quarter movements become full movements. I expect to increase weight rapidly.

I know it looks low, but I always start low my first time with a new routine

[DustyChicago]

183 lbs and 12.5% BF.


Still on bulk, but I'm watching it closely. I'm assuming it will take me at least 8 weeks to drop from 12.5% BF to <10, which is my meaningless goal. And I want to be <10 by the third week of June, so I have tops 3 more weeks of Bulk/Comp, but we'll see.

[DustyChicago]

I've been getting out more, anticipating that when I start my cut in 2 or 3 I'll spend less time around temptation. Women are checking me out and squeezing my parts. Thanks Keto.

[DustyChicago]

My regular split is being moved around to accommodate my social life and my moving schedule (I'm moving.) So this weekend I actually worked out F/S/S and carbed up on Sat and Sun. Lifts all still up and I weighed in at 190 on Sunday with Ipod and shoes on. This will be my last week of bulking/recomping. It's all going good and I anticipate easily meeting my sub 10% BF goal by June 16th, which has been my goal all year long.

I hope this log is useful to people and I hope it is an example of for someone else who wants to use Keto as part of healthy living, as opposed to using keto to reach a specific goal of weight loss.

[DustyChicago]

Last workout on the bulk was last night. Repping 95s on incline dumbell bench, pull ups with 15lbs weighing me down. Barbell push presses with 145. Very strong.

Tipped the scales at 186 and registered 12.7 bf%. Forgot to take pics though.

Cut starts sometime next week. I fear attempting the 4 workout super-circuit in my crowded gym at peak hours, so we'll see whats up.

[DustyChicago]

I ended up taking a break from the diet all together during Spring Break. I also moved during this time and the break from the diet helped me cope with the lack of a kitchen to prepare meals and the lack of tv service which resulted in me watching the Bulls and the Hawks in bars all week.

I did end up pigging out and gained some fat, but I'm not really concerned about it.

What I am amazed about is how quick I got back to ketosis even after 10 days eating whatever I wanted and was easy. I hit the gym last night and did two 4-movement circuits and then cardio. It killed. Anyway, just pissed and it came out like lime-aide and smelled of acetate. Winning!

[DustyChicago]

I havent been counting cals in months, but I added up my cut just to make sure I was good.

diet
f / p / c
1. casein+heavy cream
6 / 24 / 2
2. 2 eggs, 2 bacon
13 / 15 / 1
3. Spinach, Salami, Cheese
19 / 13 / 2
4. Tuna, broc, mayo
6 / 19 / 4
5. (variable)
6. supps: pwo, mct oil, fish oils
20 / 22 / 1
7. pb, cream, whey
14 / 26 / 4
8. casein heavy cream
6 / 24 / 2
total - - - - - - - - - -
84 / 143 / 16
cals ------------------
756 / 572 / 64 = 1392
percents - - - - - - - -
54 / 41 / 4




clearly the "variable" meal which is something I cook weekly (right now its beef, broc, sour cream, and olive oil in stroganoff form) that is usually fat heavy, which goes a bit closer to getting me to that 65% fats and it adds 300-500 cals to get me right where I want to be.

[DustyChicago]

At the end of the first 2 weeks of my serious cut and I am currently carbing up.

Still pretty sore from depletion yesterday, but the scale told me I was 186lbs (down 10 lbs form the start) and 12.5% BF (down .2 from the the last week of my bulk.) So its all good. I'm planning on a lb a week and .5% BF a week for the next 6 weeks. This should put me around 180 and 9.5% BF at the end of my cut. There is a small chance, I might do a UD2 or PSMF the final too weeks if I'm not close to my goals.

[DustyChicago]

At the end of week 4 I tipped scales at 182 lbs and 12% BF. This means in the last two weeks I've lost 4 lbs total and 2lbs of fat.

Although this does not equal the .5 lbs fat for a week that I was aiming for, I believe I know what factors I can adjust to increase my effectiveness. I big one is shortening this carbup to 24 hrs as opposed to 36 and keeping the tail end of it low-fat, which did not occur on my first carb up this.

Also, I have been trained in the practice of Trancendental Meditation through a program, which is the type of meditation that became popular after the beatles learned it in the 60's. I'm not sure of the effects its having, but I do know that a meditation session shortly before or directly after weight training makes me feel awesome.

[DustyChicago]

Tipped the scale at 179 and 12% BF

This means I lost 50/50 fat/muscle over these last two weeks... which I'm not happy about. For me to get to 10% in the next two weeks will be hard. So I'd like some advice if any experienced ketoers view this post.

My lifts have been varying widely based on proximity toward carb ups and time of day I lift.

TRAINING

Workout A (twice a week)

4-round circuit:
front squat 4 x 10 x 135lb
pull up 8/7/6/5
step up 4 x 10 x 15lb each leg
Dumbell Push Press 4 x 10 x 45lb

2round cuircuit
squat 2 x 10 x 135
wide grip lat pulldown 2 x 20 x 70
step up 2 x 20 x 20 each leg
dumbell press 2 x 20 x 25

Weighted swiss ball crunch 2 x 10-12 x 45lbs

30 minutes Low-Intensity Cardio

Workout B (twice a week)

4 round circuit:
dealift 4 x 10 x 165
explosive pushhup 4 x 10
bulgarian split squats 4 x 10 x 10 each side
2 point bent-over row 4 x 10 x 45 each side

2 round circuit
box deadlift 2 x 20 x 105
dumbell bench 2 x 20 x 45
dumbell lunge with side bend 2 x 20 x 10 each side
seated cable row 2 x 20 x 35

hanging leg raise, 2 sets of 10 til failure

30 minutes cardio.

DIET

1. scoop casein with 1 tbsp heavy cream
2. 2 eggs, 2 bacon, 1 cheese stick
3. 2 cups spinach, chicken thigh, ken's creamy cesar dressing
4. tuna, mayo, broc
5. 1 scoop whey, heavy cream, and 1 tbsp natty pb
6. scoop casein with 1 tbsp heavy cream

pre-workout I take MCT oil and white flood. Post I use 1 scoop whey and 1 tsp creatine

multi, fish oil, ECA stack, fiber caps

So... looking at my training and diet, does anyone have any suggestions to try and ramp up fat loss for these last two weeks? I was thinking maybe of taking out the 30 min of cardio and adding in a day of ab work and a set of HIIT on rest days.

[tonytoo]

So... looking at my training and diet, does anyone have any suggestions to try and ramp up fat loss for these last two weeks? I was thinking maybe of taking out the 30 min of cardio and adding in a day of ab work and a set of HIIT on rest days.

for me if I do keto (which I am sort of)... I have to make sure to lift like a truck, and I'm not kidding on that either.. otherwise I notice my lifts go down... I just remember thinking when I read through your logs and your stats we are about the same but you don't do enough reps//sets of stuff... I think you need to be doing more of a powerlifting style of workout.


like for example your round circuits? what are you trying to accomplish? you really need to hit the muscle fibers hard to let them know they need to build muscle... I'm not trying to sound like a smart ass but that is my persnal opinion. I think your workout needs some more volume and weight added to it.

here is my log, I follow this roughly when I lift, not perfectly every time, but usually at least 6 "working sets" on each muscle group, and at least 2 - 3 muscle groups each workout. I divide the body into 3 parts, legs and hams, heavy upper (chest/back), and arms (bis/tris) & shoulders.

this is my workout log you can find a copy of my workout routine on it:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post688788971

the only thing that is not correct on my workout routine that is posted is I follow for my back I tend to add a little more volume then just 3x10 on lat pull downs. usually like 6 for lat pull downs, and then 6 for rows. (different muscle groups being worked)

for me in ketosis, I have been finding I have been able to add muscle and drop fat. I only have bodpod results from about 23% bf down to 11.7%. ~ I now have a bodybugg and I think it is a little more accurate a reading and will be adding it to my tools to track my progress. but I find my muscle seems to come back first right after a refeed/cheat day, and during the week I drop the fat.

total - - - - - - - - - -
84 / 143 / 16
cals ------------------
756 / 572 / 64 = 1392
percents - - - - - - - -
54 / 41 / 4


clearly the "variable" meal which is something I cook weekly (right now its beef, broc, sour cream, and olive oil in stroganoff form) that is usually fat heavy, which goes a bit closer to getting me to that 65% fats and it adds 300-500 cals to get me right where I want to be.

I think your calories are really lean, and by really lean I think your are lean even for my standards lol... :/ need to up to more like 1800-2200. and I think you need at least 240+ grams of protein a day. A) you will feel alot better physically. B) you will still be in a cal deficit. C) you should have alot more energy so you can focus harder on your workouts. D) with the added protein I think you will recover faster from your workouts and save your body some muscle mass that you keep dropping everytime you cut....

good luck to you man. ill drop in and follow along.

on a side note I thought you had another log on here... I must of been looking at it when I said you are dropping LBM's too, guess that was my mistake?

[DustyChicago]

Thanks Tony... and I did have another log from over a year ago. This is the one I've been keeping since. If my hopes are realized... it reflects the log of a dude that considers fitness and health important... but is also dedicated to his profession and loved ones.

And, you know what... maybe it was someone else saying it to me, but you're absolutely regarding the weight of my lifts. Although, I think there may be confusion as a far as volume... I get plenty of that. But even in my own experience, I've noticed better results, even when it comes to cutting, when my routines are more targeted towards hypertrophy or strength than towards fat-loss.

After this two week cut, I'll be "off" for 6 weeks of summer. I will party like a rock star and keep my physical activity more related to play, although I hope to hit weights at least twice a week during my break. This is a change from last summer, where I took 9 weeks off and ended up enduring injuries that made everything but cardio impractical.

I am thinking about a 10 month plan for after my break and I plan to keep circuits like these to much briefer periods (4 weeks not 8 weeks) as opposed to what I've done this last year. I'll likely extend some of the strength and hypertrophy routines from 6 and 8 weeks to 12 weeks. I also plan on doing a better job in bulking, because this last year, in part due to injury, I have not dont a good job of growing and maintaining LBM.

Thanks Tony... Repped

[DustyChicago]

So, I'm just about to the end of this cut here and as the posts above point to, its unlikely I'll reach my goal of 180lbs and 10% BF. At this point I'm hoping I hit 10.5% BF, but we'll see. I will post pics on Friday, but I have to say as of now that I'm happy with the way my body looks.

Anyway, recent changes to my work schedule have influenced me to change my eating habits.

Its before noon and I've consumed about 1500 calories already, but I wont eat again until after my workout this evening. This puts me in a fast from about 11am until 7pm.

Tomorrow will be my off day, but I will likely do some cycling.

Friday is the final day of the cut. I will fast until my pre-depletion fruit. I will then deplete and carb up.

This actually led me to a question: if its the end of a cut, should you even carb up at all if you expect to reintroduce carbs into your diet? I would think the answer would be no, but I WILL be carbing up, because I do plan to stick on something like an informal low-carb/CKD/Paleo over the summer. I'm also going to join a boxing and MMA gym and start training and lifting (a bit) less. I'll likely re-up into a 10 month strategic plan in August, but havent exactly figured out what its going to look like yet.