Fadogia Agrestis decreases testosterone levels?

[EntropyIncrease]

This is according to muscle pharm, so I take it with a grain of salt. But if it is true . . . waaat?
They havent posted studies yet though(currently following a thread over on aminds), so no real facts. Have any of you guys heard anything along these lines?

Apparently its the main reason MP is taking fadogia out of their battle fuel.

[_Smitty_]

No studies yet though(currently following a thread over on aminds), so no real facts. Have any of you guys heard anything along these lines?

if there are no studies, then what are they basing this claim on and/or what are they using as supporting evidence?

[EntropyIncrease]

if there are no studies, then what are they basing this claim on and/or what are they using as supporting evidence?

No I mean they havent posted their studies yet. I assume they have them if they're making a claim like that. (edited OP for clarity)

Just wondering if anyone here has heard similar things or if they're just bs'ing

[_Smitty_]

No I mean they havent posted their studies yet. I assume they have them if they're making a claim like that. (edited OP for clarity)

Just wondering if anyone here has heard similar things or if they're just bs'ing

just read the statement made by MP's owner... what's confusing me is that the increase in T study was performed using rats as subjects and that's what they based the inclusion of the extract on...

did no one see the study published 3 years after the aforementioned study citing an adverse effect on testicular function? (also in rats, but they were using a favorable study using rats to justify its inclusion in the first place.)

very curious timing, though, as i've noticed omega is posting up logging opportunities for t-force.

[EntropyIncrease]

I think they saw the new data but dismissed it due to the profitability of the raw.

This is pure speculation on my part however. Im going to get peter in here and see if he's heard anything.

[Sldge]

just read the statement made by MP's owner... what's confusing me is that the increase in T study was performed using rats as subjects and that's what they based the inclusion of the extract on...

did no one see the study published 3 years after the aforementioned study citing an adverse effect on testicular function? (also in rats, but they were using a favorable study using rats to justify its inclusion in the first place.)

very curious timing, though, as i've noticed omega is posting up logging opportunities for t-force.

I think its more likely because of the possibility of toxicity but its a total guess on my part.

[_Smitty_]

I think its more likely because of the possibility of toxicity but its a total guess on my part.

certainly possible, somewhat exposing the FA content in their prop blend... the second study i mentioned showed no lingering toxicity after 18mg/kg, with no mention of recoveries (or lack of) made from the 50 and 100mg/kg dosing protocols.

so, if they're concerned with toxicity... what were their doses?

here's what a MP rep posted on behalf of the owner over on AM in case you haven't seen it, matt...

Update On Fadogia Agrestis:

My manufacturer just got through with a 6 week study on Fadogia Agrestis. Although there seems to be some studies implying that this ingredient has been known to increase test levells 6x of a controlled group, this is actually a study referring to Rats.

The real facts are very discouraging and we have decided to pull this ingredient out of the Battle Fuel, based on the studies it showed to actually shut down the testis which is actually the opposite of what we want this product to do.

So sorry for this, my R&D guys are very good at what they do and this is part of the reason for us delaying the launch.

Thanks for your understanding and the current results of the Battle Fuel with out this ingredient is extremely more effective.

[EntropyIncrease]

I didnt realize MP posted that statement over 2 years ago.

http://myfitspace.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51

[jdevo2004]

I am currently taking the BET stack so I am interested in where this thread goes.

[ko300zx]

I didnt realize MP posted that statement over 2 years ago.

http://myfitspace.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51

That was posted over 2 years ago and the study has still not been released or for that matter seen by anyone? A study showing an ingredient causes the testis to shut down would be relatively important information, especially since it is still being used, would it not?

[eldawg]

So did MP refund people that purchased their product with this potentially damaging ingredient?

[Adawg4929]

didnt iforce jsut release a fadogia product?

[Rodzilla01]

didnt iforce jsut release a fadogia product?

Yes, Fadogia plus 25r...

[in10city]

That was posted over 2 years ago and the study has still not been released or for that matter seen by anyone? A study showing an ingredient causes the testis to shut down would be relatively important information, especially since it is still being used, would it not?

The study is out there. It's the same one THEHUGE's wannabe butt buddy has posted eleventy-billion times.

[shadar]

The study is out there. It's the same one THEHUGE's wannabe butt buddy has posted eleventy-billion times.

Didn't THEHUGE already explain the study a long time ago as well?

This doesn't strike me as "new" information. IMO if MP is just now pulling the fadogia then they are doing so for another reason.

[EntropyIncrease]

Didn't THEHUGE already explain the study a long time ago as well?

This doesn't strike me as "new" information. IMO if MP is just now pulling the fadogia then they are doing so for another reason.

happened two years ago. for whatever reason its new info for some of us.

[Dacookie]

Yes, Fadogia plus 25r...

Legit 25R?

[Adawg4929]

Legit 25R?

i believe it is diffrent then what is found in Mass FX, but may be wrong.

[THEHUGE]

The study is out there. It's the same one THEHUGE's wannabe butt buddy has posted eleventy-billion times.

Didn't THEHUGE already explain the study a long time ago as well?

This doesn't strike me as "new" information. IMO if MP is just now pulling the fadogia then they are doing so for another reason.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=62

[Peter LeDrew]

The study is out there. It's the same one THEHUGE's wannabe butt buddy has posted eleventy-billion times.

^^^
This. I'd like to see the beef of any new claims. That little statement from them seemed pretty weak at best.


If they are using quality raw material like I know Omega Sports and Biotivia have used it is not the cheapest ingredient to source... another reason to not want to use it.

[EntropyIncrease]

LMFAO. THEHUGE POSTS A LINK TO THE VERY RAT STUDY, LMFAO
blah blah blah

[Big.Jazayrli]

LMFAO. THEHUGE POSTS A LINK TO THE VERY RAT STUDY, LMFAO

You're linking to a study on rats you moron, this thread clearly states that human studies show testicular shutdown, where are your human studies??? You have none because youre a fuking moron. Your mother should have swallowed you when she had the chance, because scum bags like you are whats ruining this industry. you released a dangerous product that shuts down peoples balls and thats why its currently pulled, you fuking loser, I hope everyone sues you for every cent you are worth (not very much)

Musclepharm, a legitimate coorperation that doesn't work out of their basement bathtub like THEHUGE, comes out and withdraws an ingredient because of testicular shutdown, and here is this fuking NOBODY "THEHUGE", this fuking broscience bathtub experimenting fuking guru, linking all of us to a fuking rat study, WHICH HE FINISHED OFF HIMSELF, you are moronic piece of fuking trash,

WE AREN"T RATS HUGE YOU MORONIC FUKING PIECE OF TRASH

you sir, have too much spare time.

[EntropyIncrease]

^^^
This. I'd like to see the beef of any new claims. That little statement from them seemed pretty weak at best.


If they are using quality raw material like I know Omega Sports and Biotivia have used it is not the cheapest ingredient to source... another reason to not want to use it.

Thanks for comin down peter. I thought the same thing, the raw is very inexpensive so they should have a more legitimate reason. Matt mentioned toxicity but at the doses they would have used thats not really a concern from my opinion.

Curious to see if any MP guys have a legit reason for removing fadogia.

[EntropyIncrease]

What the fuk are you doing? Are you fuking stupid?

Go read the thread you fuking moron, people like THEHUGE need to be stopped from makign fuking formulas they know NOTHING about and hurting people, hes a fuking scum bag he should be in fuking jail to rott where pieces of dirt like that belong.

thanks I actually made the thread. now leave.

[Peter LeDrew]

What the fuk are you doing? Are you fuking stupid?

Go read the thread you fuking moron, people like THEHUGE need to be stopped from makign fuking formulas they know NOTHING about and hurting people, hes a fuking scum bag he should be in fuking jail to rott where pieces of dirt like that belong.

What is your issue. Biotivia seems to be one of the most legit companies using the highest quality ingredients and non-prop. dosings. Again, what is your purpose?

[Mr.Cooper69]

side question: is bioforge really fda approved?

[Peter LeDrew]

The toxicity dose for pro max at 2 caps a day is right on par actually, 3 caps a day and your almost gaurunteed toxicity. Do the math yourself, its very easy. for a 198 pound guy taking 2 pro max a day, it is at toxic levels, lower the body weight and the worse it gets.

Funny. When I used Bioforge I actually noted benefits and a libido increase.

[TMac26]

Bane of Thermolife stands by FA, I respect his opinion when it comes to things like that.

[Peter LeDrew]

Highest qualities of ingredients? Is this a sick fuking Joke?

Fadogia is the main ingredient in promax it WASNT EVEN TESTED ON HUMANS, only RATS, and when it was tested on humans it shows lowering T levels and testi shutdown, yes, awesome fuking product you braindead moron.

Horny Goat weed and vitamin D? are you fuking for real dude?

Yes, in case you haven't noticed all the best test boosters now use Vit.D3.

[mark118]

Highest qualities of ingredients? Is this a sick fuking Joke?

Fadogia is the main ingredient in promax it WASNT EVEN TESTED ON HUMANS, only RATS, and when it was tested on humans it shows lowering T levels and testi shutdown, yes, awesome fuking product you braindead moron.

Horny Goat weed and vitamin D? are you fuking for real dude?

how many times are you going to register a new account to bash biotivia's products and reps?

sad. you sound crazy you know? like those swearing/ranting homeless people on the streets. you know they're there, you feel bad for them, but ignore what they say