PAGG Stack - Too Good to be true?

[eldawg]

So does anyone still use ECA? Meaning the aspirin part?

Imo its pointless. Would rather use something like a good quality green tea extract instead.

[lachyg]

Imo its pointless. Would rather use something like a good quality green tea extract instead.

What is the benefit of Aspirin in the stack?

[maybesew]

What is the benefit of Aspirin in the stack?

Taken from the Four-Hour Body book: ephedrine increases cAMP levels, caffeine slows cAMP breakdown, and aspirin further helps sustain increased cAMP levels by inhibiting prostagladin production.

Back to the original question, I've been using the PAGG stack for about three weeks. Just before going on it I had my body mass measured at a water tank. I have a followup measurement on feb 15th to measure the progress.

I plan a full write up once I have the data, but do I think it works? I started at 187 pounds, 19% bodyfat. My morning weigh-ins range from 181-183 the past few days, and I have kept my diet and workouts the same as pre-pagg stack where I had flatlined in the upper 180s for a couple of months.

I'm not sure why people think it's that expensive, but I guess compared to eca it is. Compared to a lot of other supps on the market, it's cheap. Just like anything, buying bigger bottles saves you money.

Interesting side effect is that it makes your pee smell like you ate asparagus.

[most_dedicated]

I hate when older members on here give us young guys a hard time. I mean yeah we are younger, and maybe we haven't been in the sport as long, but that doesn't mean we can't know what we are talking about. And I admit sometimes the younger guys can have some stupid questions, (myself included) but that's why we are on this site, to learn more about what we love, lifting!!

exactly

most of the older guys on here giving advice are out of shape and look worse than those that theyre giving advice to, not to mention they usually only know what they know from reading threads and calling out younger guys about using any kinds of supplements and calling out their knowledge

brb im 18 and already a sophomore in college, a few credits short of an associates degree and going for nutrition/exercise physiology degree (already knowing most of the info from personal research and not bb.com broscience threads)

[maybesew]

A couple months later here is my review

http://perfectmike.com/2011/03/28/pagg-stack-review/

basically not worth it

[seftonn]

Apologies if I repeat anything that has already been said, but I fully disagree with the comment that taking PAGG is not worth it, and I know as I have experimented with exercise regimes, atkins induction over a period of 1 & 1/2 months and now PAGG for a few months. This is all over a several year period. See my experience of it here as I have also stated what I've done over the years and it puts things in perspective - go to pagg.co.uk/content/neils-pagg-experience

Before I go any further I have seen posts about ECA. Don't take it, just Wikipedia it instead. If after reading about the fact that it is illegal in the US and has caused heart attacks and death, along with nasty side affects for the people that took it and are still alive, you still want to take it, then it's your life and not mine.

I've been taking PAGG without doing anything else and it has worked. If you visit the experience above you'll see that I'm now experimenting with different exercises to take along side it to get maximum results. They may not work, but I want a six pack at least once before I die, but I do want to get one safely.

If you want to find out more about the PAGG Stack, visit pagg.co.uk as it is informational and lists the different places you can get it, so that if you do decide to buy, then you can at least see everywhere that's doing it and make up your own mind.

[SpiderBro]

As recommended reading for all:
http://www.hotnfit.com/ecstack.htm

[fitnessphill]

If any of you have read Tim Ferris' "The Four Hour Body" (Great Book), you are familiar with his suggested ECA replacement stack. PAGG consists of: Policosanol, Alpha-Lipoic Acid, Green Tea Extract, and Garlic (allacin). The suggested dosage is 300 mg of Alpha-lipoic acid (ALA), 325 mg of Green Tea Extract aka EGCG (from decaffeinated green tea flavanols) and 200 mg of garlic extract 4 times per day (Before Meals and before bed). The Policosanol is to be taken with the AGG only before bed (23mg). He claims this stack is 65% as effective as ECA.

Google PAGG for more information.

My question, and the point of this thread: Is this stack truly as effective as it claims to be, and is it worth the substantial cost ($80+/month). I am hoping for responses from those who have either taken it or researched it substantially.

Thank you for you time,
Gage

save your money & just diet PROPERLY.

6 meals a day? BLAHH
no carbs later in the day? BLAHHHH
breakfast most important meal? EXTRA BLAHHHHHH
(most of these mainstream claims have MINIMAL research, OR they were conducted on diets with;
A) MUCH to low protein, calories, or macro ratios
B) obese people,
C) ordinary every day people (that aren't crushing weights like we do...)

after months and months and months and... of research;

this is the only diet that has TREMENDOUS amounts of SCIENCE based on the reasoning..

leangains(dot)com
seriously, just read read read read read read, and you'll laugh at 99% of 'educated advice' (aka broscience) out there...
enjoy!

[misurfer]

I have done the ECA stack for many years.
Started out when I was 22 and I did triathlons for 5 yrs.
I would start taking ECA before my 5 AM swim and take the combo up to every 4 hour at the most.
I was swimming 15 miles a week, biking 200 miles, running 60 miles, lifting up to twice a day, long with lifting metal conduit at work.
Eating about 8400 cal a day.
6'2 - 178lbs - 3%
18 min mile swim
24 mph average mountain bike
39 min 10k
benching 295
Until one day wind skating in the parking lot... I was racing a car (35 mph) when I got back winded and stepped off. I planted my right foot on the ground and my ankle snapped the inside bone sheared off right at the ankle and swung through and shattered the outside bone. I skipped along the pavement (Rrr road rash) no shirt, just shorts & shoes. I thought I sprang my ankle until I stood on it and there was no support. (Crunch!)
I went into surgery and a day later the doctor told me that my bones were extremely soft. Osteomalacia. calcium leaching from my teeth. I have broken some of them when clinching. Crowns don't last. I have had trouble getting motivated my adrenal grands are shot and I started gaining weight. (50lbs in 6 months) which I have been fighting to lose for 11 years now. Having adrenal issues is like being a zombie. Getting excited for a vacation or winning something, yeah... just the word no feeling. I guess the other side is that I am so level that there is no down, but there is no up either. I wouldn't do it again, if I got a do over!

[Mr.Cooper69]

I have done the ECA stack for many years.
Started out when I was 22 and I did triathlons for 5 yrs.
I would start taking ECA before my 5 AM swim and take the combo up to every 4 hour at the most.
I was swimming 15 miles a week, biking 200 miles, running 60 miles, lifting up to twice a day, long with lifting metal conduit at work.
Eating about 8400 cal a day.
6'2 - 178lbs - 3%
18 min mile swim
24 mph average mountain bike
39 min 10k
benching 295
Until one day wind skating in the parking lot... I was racing a car (35 mph) when I got back winded and stepped off. I planted my right foot on the ground and my ankle snapped the inside bone sheared off right at the ankle and swung through and shattered the outside bone. I skipped along the pavement (Rrr road rash) no shirt, just shorts & shoes. I thought I sprang my ankle until I stood on it and there was no support. (Crunch!)
I went into surgery and a day later the doctor told me that my bones were extremely soft. Osteomalacia. calcium leaching from my teeth. I have broken some of them when clinching. Crowns don't last. I have had trouble getting motivated my adrenal grands are shot and I started gaining weight. (50lbs in 6 months) which I have been fighting to lose for 11 years now. Having adrenal issues is like being a zombie. Getting excited for a vacation or winning something, yeah... just the word no feeling. I guess the other side is that I am so level that there is no down, but there is no up either. I wouldn't do it again, if I got a do over!

Strong first post and bump. Solid copypasta material though, thanks!

[Massicio]

I have done the ECA stack for many years.
Started out when I was 22 and I did triathlons for 5 yrs.
I would start taking ECA before my 5 AM swim and take the combo up to every 4 hour at the most.
I was swimming 15 miles a week, biking 200 miles, running 60 miles, lifting up to twice a day, long with lifting metal conduit at work.
Eating about 8400 cal a day.
6'2 - 178lbs - 3%
18 min mile swim
24 mph average mountain bike
39 min 10k
benching 295
Until one day wind skating in the parking lot... I came across a grazing fire engine. It noticed me almost immediately. It stopped what it was doing and stared at me. I dared not move. When it began to lower its guard I made my move. I took off in a dead sprint back the way I came. Only to be pursued by the fire engine. I tripped, I thought I sprang my ankle until I stood on it and there was no support. (Crunch!), the fire engine closed in, I thought I was going to die.
I woke up in surgery and a day later the doctor told me that my bones were extremely soft. Osteomalacia. calcium leaching from my teeth. I have broken some of them when clinching. Crowns don't last. I have had trouble getting motivated my adrenal grands are shot and I started gaining weight. (50lbs in 6 months) which I have been fighting to lose for 11 years now. Having adrenal issues is a zombie. I had to feed on human blood to get any energy Getting excited for a vacation or winning something, yeah... just the word no feeling. I guess the other side is that I am so level that there is no down, but there is no up either. I wouldn't do it again, if I got a do over!

Interdasting

[BenTristem]

I've been using it with no appreciable side-effects for some time. I cannot be sure yet if it's responsible for my great fat loss results, I will be doing some testing by gradually weening myself off it over time. I've dedicated a site to help people follow the 4 Hour Body system, combined with my experience of "recovering" from being a vegan.

[velphick]

I've been using the PAGG stack for a while now (from memory about 5 or 6 months) awesome results, its not a miracle stack but comes close with the right training and diet. Plus you are forgetting the other results (which others may not be interesting in) which are AWESOME anti oxidants from ALA, Green Tea (which is also anti cancer) and garlic (which is also anti cancer) plus no side effects PLUS which is a huge thing I thought if you have read the research that goes into it, Green Tea can actually destroy fat cells, garlic can stop them reoccurring (rebound fat gain anyone?) and ALA making more calories defer to your muscles into of stored as fat (plus awesome results with raising GOOD Cholesterol and lowering the bad) you really are getting an awesome deal and I think its actually BETTER in so many ways than anything else out there in regards to how many benefits it gives.

[mls100771]

I am interested in trying the PAGG stack as well.

I've been training off-and-on since I was 15 years old. I heard of caffeine helping people to lose weight when I was still in high school. So I used to drink gallons of Diet Snapple and Black Coffee. The first bodybuilding supplement I ever tried was Joe Weiders Dynamic Muscle Builder. I tried Cybergenics when I was in my late teens.

I took both Xenadrine and Hydroxycut back in 1999-2002 when you could get it with the Ephedrine. Didn't have the same side effects as I am reporting below, but definately got the jitters on a regular basis and also became easily agitated and raged-out quite frequently. Not good! I remember the stimulant withdrawal headaches I had when I quit the ECA, put me out of commission for two weeks!

I stacked VPX Redline and VPX Meltdown for a while last year and probably exceeded the recommended duration (I think I was taking them regularly fo 6 months). I started getting this tight feeling in my throat (as if someone was choking me with their hands) when I got into stressful situations. Not a good thing in my line of work. I also probably drank more coffee than I should have while taking them too. The net is that the weird "choking side effect" went away as soon as I quit them. As far as the fat loss I was looking for.... eh.... I lost some... but not what I was looking for.

Since I quit the VPX I gained some weight back. As of yesterday, I weigh in at around 293.5 with bodyfat around 36% (Yeah, I know!)

I'm not ready to start the PAGG stack yet, but will follow up when I have data to show.

[unitsinc]

OK, I'm brand new here. Just looking for a bit of info.

Been doing some research for a while now(I tend to over research before actually doing anything) and most of the stuff I've read said EC(ECA/ECY) as a pretty effective supplement to take to aid fat loss(with diet and exercise.)

I recently read the 4 Hour Body and saw mention of the PAGG stack. I can't find a ton online about it, but it seems like a decent stack, maybe a bit less effective, but with fewer side effects.

My main question is, since the PAGG is relatively side effect/stimulant free, would it be ok to take them together? Would this essentially combine their effects? Cancel them out? I tried doing some searching around, but I could find next to nothing.

Also, sorry for the old post bump.

[justhamade]

If any of you have read Tim Ferris' "The Four Hour Body" (Great Book), you are familiar with his suggested ECA replacement stack. PAGG consists of: Policosanol, Alpha-Lipoic Acid, Green Tea Extract, and Garlic (allacin). The suggested dosage is 300 mg of Alpha-lipoic acid (ALA), 325 mg of Green Tea Extract aka EGCG (from decaffeinated green tea flavanols) and 200 mg of garlic extract 4 times per day (Before Meals and before bed). The Policosanol is to be taken with the AGG only before bed (23mg). He claims this stack is 65% as effective as ECA.

Google PAGG for more information.

My question, and the point of this thread: Is this stack truly as effective as it claims to be, and is it worth the substantial cost ($80+/month). I am hoping for responses from those who have either taken it or researched it substantially.

Thank you for you time,
Gage

The biggest benefit of PAGG is improving insulin sensitivity.