Westside Barbell Routine - Evaluate Please

[Conrad0032]

Alright, so I am just starting a westside barbell-style routine since I hear such great things about them. I was hoping some people could give me advice, critique my routine as best they could, and add in anything else a new power lifter could learn. I've been lifting for roughly two years now, 16 atm, so I know basics and such, however, I had been lifting more of a bodybuilder style. My Westside Barbell routine is -

Sunday - Max Squat
Squats - work up to a 1RM (9 or 10 sets usually)
Glute Ham Raises - 3 sets of 8
Stiff Legged Deficit Deadlifts - 3 sets of 10-12
Leg Press Calf Press - 3-4 sets of 8-30 reps
Rope Ab Pull Downs - 4 sets of 15
Leg Raises - 3 Sets to Failure (usually around 13)

Monday - Off

Tuesday - Max Effort Bench
Incline Bench - work up to a one rep max. My front delts were quite sore after this, maybe my form was off?
Decline Bench - 3 Sets of 8-12 reps (Westside doesn't recommend but I feel I need more chest work. Might just be my BB instincts lol. If I have any...)
Dumbbell Side Raises - 4 sets of 8-12
Weighted Pull Ups - 5 sets of 5
Barbell Curls - 3 sets of 5-12

Wednesday - Off. However, I am thinking of making it a back day. If I did I wouldn't do anything Tuesday and would add in 3-5 sets on Saturday. Some ppinions on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thursday - Dynamic Lower Body
Speed Box Squats w/ Bands - 10-12 sets of 2 ----> I am unsure of how to gauge my speed on this lift as I have no training partner. Any recommendation would be great. Same goes with the deadlifts and bench later on.
Speed Band Deadlift - 8 sets of 1
Wide Stance GM - 3 sets of 10
Lunges - 2 Sets of 8
Smith Machine Calf Raises - 3-4 sets pyramidding up (optional)
Knee Raises - 3 sets to failure (usually around 20 reps)
Cable Side Bends - 3 sets of 15

Friday - Off

Saturday - Speed Bench
Band Speed Bench Press - 9 sets of 3 with varying grips
Dumbbell Press 3-4 sets of 8 or Chaos Bench 2-3 sets of 20-30 (with weights hanging off of bands) - I am unsure once again whether adding this additional chest exercise is wise or not.
Jerk Press - work up to a 1 rep max
Skull crushers - 4 sets of 5
Barbell Rows - 4-5 Sets pf 6-10
Shrugs supersetted w/ Face Pulls - 3 supersets of 20 reps, 15 reps, 8 reps

Help would be greatly appreciated esp. since this is a long post and takes time to read. Thanks to all who look.

[FasterThanLight]

As long as you are not new to weightlifting and you eat plenty of protein you should be fine, no need to critique, westisde is wesitside. It was created by people with decades of experience in powerlifting.

But, there is always more to a weight lifting program than appears on the surface, like stretching, adjustments, using foam rollers, diet, etc..

[sgtsweaty]

What are your lifts?

If you're a beginner theres a good chance that Westside just isn't enough volume for you and you'll end up dissapointed.

I went into it with I think like a 400lb squat, did it for six weeks... Deadlifts the first cycle and box squats the next for Lower ME days. At the end of that six weeks my BW was down 20lbs and my squat fell to like 330.

The lack of enough heavy squatting is what killed me.

[Conrad0032]

What are your lifts?

If you're a beginner theres a good chance that Westside just isn't enough volume for you and you'll end up dissapointed.

I went into it with I think like a 400lb squat, did it for six weeks... Deadlifts the first cycle and box squats the next for Lower ME days. At the end of that six weeks my BW was down 20lbs and my squat fell to like 330.

The lack of enough heavy squatting is what killed me.

I got a 370 squat. 425 or so deadlift. and 245 bench. I was thinking the same thing. Keep on thinking that there is not enough volume, which is why I tweak it and add in a few sets here and there.

[King922]

What are your lifts?

If you're a beginner theres a good chance that Westside just isn't enough volume for you and you'll end up dissapointed.

I went into it with I think like a 400lb squat, did it for six weeks... Deadlifts the first cycle and box squats the next for Lower ME days. At the end of that six weeks my BW was down 20lbs and my squat fell to like 330.

The lack of enough heavy squatting is what killed me.

You dont lose 20lbs of BW just because your not squatting enough....

[Jason2459]

Here's a previous post I did with lots of good links that I think everyone that is considering lifting anything like they do at Westside should read. Includes free links, books to buy, video's to watch, and training logs to follow.


I do believe any person no mater the level can do this. I'll leave my post linked below to do the rest of my talking.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=11

[sgtsweaty]

You dont lose 20lbs of BW just because your not squatting enough....

Um... I did?

If your squat falls 70lbs and you lose 20 in 6 weeks, I think theres a pretty strong connection there.

Granted I wasn't very good at the box squat, too. Only got up to like 340 or so during that time period.

And besides I hear people say it all the time. They start squatting heavy regularly, gain weight, stop squatting heavy, then they lose it.

[Jason2459]

Um... I did?

If your squat falls 70lbs and you lose 20 in 6 weeks, I think theres a pretty strong connection there.

Granted I wasn't very good at the box squat, too. Only got up to like 340 or so during that time period.

And besides I hear people say it all the time. They start squatting heavy regularly, gain weight, stop squatting heavy, then they lose it.

So why didn't you squat enough and get enough volume? That's one of the mistakes people do when they start doing what they think is "Westside" training. If you got weaker and lost weight then you were not doing what the Westside method calls for.

[sgtsweaty]

I got a 370 squat. 425 or so deadlift. and 245 bench. I was thinking the same thing. Keep on thinking that there is not enough volume, which is why I tweak it and add in a few sets here and there.

At least from my expirience, its not the number of sets, it's the fact that they're only singles.

That could very well work for you depending on how you respond, but I'd recommend more sets of 3-5.

Beginners need volume to grow

[King922]

Um... I did?

Are you serious? Im sure the lose of BW did have an effect on your squat Im not questioning that. But you honestly think if you squat less for 6 weeks your going to lose large amounts of weight?

[sgtsweaty]

So why didn't you squat enough and get enough volume? That's one of the mistakes people do when they start doing what they think is "Westside" training. If you got weaker and lost weight then you were not doing what the Westside method calls for.

Yes, that's exactly where I messed up.

The OP wanted to do the same thing I did (with singles)

[Jason2459]

At least from my expirience, its not the number of sets, it's the fact that they're only singles.

That could very well work for you depending on how you respond, but I'd recommend more sets of 3-5.

Beginners need volume to grow

And there's nothing stopping a person from going for a Triple PR. You could be doing triples until you can't do a triple anymore anyways. Then drop to singles.

[Blue Blazer]

are you really 16? if so, how many years have you been lifting...there's probably no need to jump into periodization

[sgtsweaty]

Are you serious? Im sure the lose of BW did have an effect on your squat Im not questioning that. But you honestly think if you squat less for 6 weeks your going to lose large amounts of weight?

It wasn't doing "less" what got me, it wasn't doing "enough"

One heavy single per week didn't cut it for me at that bar weight.

[sgtsweaty]

And there's nothing stopping a person from going for a Triple PR. You could be doing triples until you can't do a triple anymore anyways. Then drop to singles.

True dat. I was going on the basis of 'working up to' a set with X reps.

[Jason2459]

It wasn't doing "less" what got me, it wasn't doing "enough"

One heavy single per week didn't cut it for me at that bar weight.

That's the mistake right there. You should have been doing a lot more then 1 heavy single.

[King922]

It wasn't doing "less" what got me, it wasn't doing "enough"

One heavy single per week didn't cut it for me at that bar weight.

So, your saying that if we do less physical activity we will lose weight? Hmmm... Thats very interesting! You should tell people about this! You could make millions!

Seriously though, you lose weight because you eat less not because you dont squat "enough".

[Conrad0032]

are you really 16? if so, how many years have you been lifting...there's probably no need to jump into periodization

Yea I'm 16. Been lifting for 2 years. People also tell me my numbers are too low for westside, which I can definately believe but what's your take on it?

Bench - 250
Squat - 370
Deadlift - 425

[sgtsweaty]

So, your saying that if we do less physical activity we will lose weight? Hmmm... Thats very interesting! You should tell people about this! You could make millions!

Seriously though, you lose weight because you eat less not because you dont squat "enough".

There's no need to be a smartass.

No thats not what I'm saying. Read the post regarding one single not being enough

[Jason2459]

BTW, volume should be calculated by total amount of weight lifted and not by total number of reps performed.

[sgtsweaty]

Yea I'm 16. Been lifting for 2 years. People also tell me my numbers are too low for westside, which I can definately believe but what's your take on it?

Bench - 250
Squat - 370
Deadlift - 425

Like Jason said, you could work up to a top set of 5, then a top triple, then single. I'm sure that would be plenty.

[King922]

There's no need to be a smartass.

No thats not what I'm saying. Read the post regarding one single not being enough

I read it and I understand its not enough for you in terms of strength gain. Thats cool some people need more some need less. But you lose weight because you eat less not because you don't squat "enough"! Sure you may lose a little bit of mass but 20lbs in 6 weeks? That screams major decrease in calorie intake. Losing that much would definitely kill your strength!

[FasterThanLight]

Hmm, I had one really good summer where I stopped doing 6-8 reps and 3 sets, instead started doing 3 reps increase weight, 3 reps increase weight, 2 reps etc, until I got to a 1 or 2 rep maximum without failure. I took 5 minute breaks in between. I gained 40 lb on my squat in 2 months. Also, I was squatting once a week and did very little deadlift work. I never lost that strength, infact eventually I got up to a higher weight.

[sgtsweaty]

I read it and I understand its not enough for you in terms of strength gain. Thats cool some people need more some need less. But you lose weight because you eat less not because you don't squat "enough"! Sure you may lose a little bit of mass but 20lbs in 6 weeks? That screams major decrease in calorie intake. Losing that much would definitely kill your strength!

That's good to know I have your approval of needing more volume.

Work up to one 1x1x80% on your squat once per week. Get back to me in a couple weeks and let me know how it goes.

BTW I went from 240-220, it wasn't like 180-160 or anything.

[sgtsweaty]

Hmm, I had one really good summer where I stopped doing 6-8 reps and 3 sets, instead started doing 3 reps increase weight, 3 reps increase weight, 2 reps etc, until I got to a 1 or 2 rep maximum without failure. I took 5 minute breaks in between. I gained 40 lb on my squat in 2 months. Also, I was squatting once a week and did very little deadlift work. I never lost that strength, infact eventually I got up to a higher weight.

Thats still 9-10 reps w/working weight, as compared to one rep with sub-maximal weight

[Conrad0032]

Hmm, I had one really good summer where I stopped doing 6-8 reps and 3 sets, instead started doing 3 reps increase weight, 3 reps increase weight, 2 reps etc, until I got to a 1 or 2 rep maximum without failure. I took 5 minute breaks in between. I gained 40 lb on my squat in 2 months. Also, I was squatting once a week and did very little deadlift work. I never lost that strength, infact eventually I got up to a higher weight.

Ahh sounds just like me lol. Didn't deadlift for about 2-3 months and jumped up from 385 max to a 405 for a triple. So yea. What you described def sounds like westside to me also, as far as the idea of maxing goes.

[King922]

That's good to know I have your approval of needing more volume.

Work up to one 1x1x80% on your squat once per week. Get back to me in a couple weeks and let me know how it goes.

BTW I went from 240-220, it wasn't like 180-160 or anything.

Some people do but some dont it depends on your body, but your info is also skewed since like you said you lost 20lbs. Why are you only going to 80% for 1 rep? Why arent you maxing? and why arent you doing the speed work? or targeting weaknesses?

And again you dont lose weight because you don't squat enough its because you dont eat enough. But this is a lost cause so Im done!

[Sharksinurmouth]

Why so much? I'm no westside pro but most don't seem to do that much

Jim Wendler has written a great series on tips for beginners. I was talking to Dave Tate about it and he gave me the idea for this article. I want to share what my workouts looked like when I first got to Westside Barbell. I walked in with a 580 squat, a 390 bench, a 520 deadlift, and a best total of 1450. Let’s just say I was very weak compared to the other guys. My GPP and work capacity were very low.

The first thing Louie told me was there was no way I should try and do as much as the other guys. That volume of work would run me into the ground. I needed to raise my GPP and work capacity over time. He told me to do three exercises per workout and go from there. Here is how my workouts looked for the first three months:

Monday (max effort squat and deadlift day)-
1. Main exercise-this was a good morning, a low box squat, or a deadlift variation up to a max single or triple.
2. Glute ham raises-I would do three sets of as many as I could.
3. Leg raises-three sets of as many as I could

Wednesday (max effort bench press day)-
1. Main exercise-pick one and work up to a max single
2. Extensions-three sets of eight to twelve reps
3. Chest supported rows-three sets of five to eight reps

Friday (dynamic effort squat day)-
1. Box squats with straight weight-I always did twelve sets of two reps
2. Reverse Hypers-three sets of eight to twelve reps
3. Weighted sit ups-three sets of five to eight reps

Sunday (dynamic effort bench press day)-
1. Speed bench press-eight sets of three reps
2. JM Press or carpet press-three sets of three to five reps
3. Lat pulldowns-three sets of eight to twelve reps

As you can see my volume was very low in the beginning because that was all I could handle. I had to get in shape to train. I want all of you beginners to look closely at the above. More is not always better.

After three months or so Louie had me a forth exercise to each day. On Mondays I added in reverse hypers after the glute ham raises. On Wednesdays I added in side lateral raises after the extensions. On Fridays we added glute hams after the reverse hypers. For Sunday Lou had me add in front plate raises after triceps work.

The main reason I wrote this is so that you would get an idea of the progression I followed for my first six months at Westside. The training logs on the site are great tool for everyone to learn from. However, they are not intended for you to look at our workouts and then go and do that. It has taken me 7 years to get to my current GPP and work capacity levels. For example, I love to read Paul Childress’ workouts. But, Paul is much stronger than I am. I can’t just change the weights and do what Paul does. I do look at Paul’s workouts and try to get some ideas for different exercises to try or to see how he cycles his squat waves going into a meet. You can learn a lot from the diaries, but don’t look at them as “cookie cutter” workouts for you to follow. They are tools for you to look at and get ideas from. You want to look at what we did to get to the levels we are at today.

[Jason2459]

Why so much? I'm no westside pro but most don't seem to do that much

Because of coming into it with a bodybuilding mentality. I suffered the same thing when getting into it. Good post by Bob Young.

[clorox_me]

There's no need to be a smartass.

No thats not what I'm saying. Read the post regarding one single not being enough

they never say to work up to just one single. You are required to get a certain number of lifts around the 90% range. If you read any of the literature before doing this, you'd realize it.

And your squat didn't go down b/c you weren't squatting "enough." It went down because you lost 20lbs. Duh.