School me on "If it fits your Macros..."

[Shea_G]

I recently started coming to the nutrition section more regularly and I am seeing a lot of "If it fits your Macros then go for it" & even "fast food can be a good way to get your extra macros/calories for the day" when people are asking about eating what the general population would consider unhealthy foods. Ive also seen alot that macros and calories alone are responsible for your body composition nutrition wise.

So my question is if we had two twins with identical training routines, rest, ect. but one ate what the general pop. would consider healthy and the other ate what the general pop. would consider unhealthy (fast food, candy, chips, soda, ect.) with the same macros and calories in accordance in a bulking diet would they put on equal muscle/fat? Also would their general health be the same and what other differance could one expect to see?

From personal expierience Ive noticed that I generally feel better when I eat better so I am quite surprised to see what I have been.

[JValjean724]

The second twin would come back and only have aged 6 years while his brother would have aged 10

[joelash302]

I recently started coming to the nutrition section more regularly and I am seeing a lot of "If it fits your Macros then go for it" & even "fast food can be a good way to get your extra macros/calories for the day" when people are asking about eating what the general population would consider unhealthy foods. Ive also seen alot that macros and calories alone are responsible for your body composition nutrition wise.

So my question is if we had two twins with identical training routines, rest, ect. but one ate what the general pop. would consider healthy and the other ate what the general pop. would consider unhealthy (fast food, candy, chips, soda, ect.) with the same macros and calories in accordance in a bulking diet would they put on equal muscle/fat? Also would their general health be the same and what other differance could one expect to see?

From personal expierience Ive noticed that I generally feel better when I eat better so I am quite surprised to see what I have been.

The fast food one would probably gain more fat because getting adequate protein from fast food is kind of a bitch.

[psychodiver9]

Read the stickies and you will be "schooled" on macros. You can't fill your macros eating only crap

[hankst]

And this is why I hate people. They always go to extremes without thinking.
I'm a proponent of "fit it into your macros", but as Alan Aragon put it: "Hitting your macros is a self regulating diet cleaner." (or something like that ).

You can't hit your macros at the end of the day if all you eat is "junk food" (OP's example), but there is no harm in eating greasy / sugary stuff (even every day) if you counterbalance it with what is deemed "healthy" food. Extremes won't get anyone anywhere. Achieve balance, and you'll achieve your goals.

(I'm feeling very Zen today)

[WonderPug]

See: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981

[Chuck2600]

I too am curious about this, the most experince guy I know with bb/training/nutrition swears by eating clean will make you gain so much better then eating junk. I have a hard time believing that 200 calories worth of gummy bears will give you the same benifit as 200 calories of oat meal. But then agian I think to myself, it's all just proteins, fats and carbs, I guess It doesn't matter where it comes from it's still the same macros.

[lee__d]

I recently started coming to the nutrition section more regularly and I am seeing a lot of "If it fits your Macros then go for it" & even "fast food can be a good way to get your extra macros/calories for the day" when people are asking about eating what the general population would consider unhealthy foods. Ive also seen alot that macros and calories alone are responsible for your body composition nutrition wise.

So my question is if we had two twins with identical training routines, rest, ect. but one ate what the general pop. would consider healthy and the other ate what the general pop. would consider unhealthy (fast food, candy, chips, soda, ect.) with the same macros and calories in accordance in a bulking diet would they put on equal muscle/fat? Also would their general health be the same and what other differance could one expect to see?

From personal expierience Ive noticed that I generally feel better when I eat better so I am quite surprised to see what I have been.

body composition would be quite similar

[hankst]

I too am curious about this, the most experince guy I know with bb/training/nutrition swears by eating clean will make you gain so much better then eating junk. I have a hard time believing that 200 calories worth of gummy bears will give you the same benifit as 200 calories of oat meal. But then agian I think to myself, it's all just proteins, fats and carbs, I guess It doesn't matter where it comes from it's still the same macros.

Of course gummi bears are not the same as oats, because gummi bears are about 100% carbohydrates, whereas oats have some protein and fat in them. But that is counteracted by the fact that gummi bears (especially the white ones - no racism) are ****ing delicious .

[desslok]

Your question is based on the "twinkie fallacy". Anytime a thread talks about it being ok to eat something as long as it fits in your macros, someone is bound to say "so you mean I can bulk eating ONLY twinkies?"

[hankst]

Your question is based on the "twinkie fallacy". Anytime a thread talks about it being ok to eat something as long as it fits in your macros, someone is bound to say "so you mean I can bulk eating ONLY twinkies?"

and that someone is to be punched in the face by an angry mob of clean eating nazis riding dinosaurs.

[-zer0-]

with the same macros and calories in accordance in a bulking diet would they put on equal muscle/fat? Also would their general health be the same and what other differance could one expect to see?

From personal expierience Ive noticed that I generally feel better when I eat better so I am quite surprised to see what I have been.

You guys are missing the point of this thread.

[psychodiver9]

You guys are missing the point of this thread.

Then why don't you answer the question?

[rayr2010]

its not just carbs/protein/fat

quality does matter, our bodies evolved over thousands of years.

as a previous poster said about one aging 6 and the other aging 10 is about accurate...

there are microscopic differences healthwise that play out over the later years...

take soy and whey protein as an example, one has cholesterol, one doesnt...

its the added nutrients that you lack/surplus makes a difference in your bodies ability to function properly.

if 2 foods have same marco's, but one clots your arteries and blood vessals and one doesnt.

who profits more?: a body with healthy vessals/organs OR one with unhealthy vessal/organs.

hope this helps, its not a noticeable difference....until its too late.

[JohnBrowne]

its not just carbs/protein/fat

quality does matter, our bodies evolved over thousands of years.

as a previous poster said about one aging 6 and the other aging 10 is about accurate...

there are microscopic differences healthwise that play out over the later years...

take soy and whey protein as an example, one has cholesterol, one doesnt...

its the added nutrients that you lack/surplus makes a difference in your bodies ability to function properly.

if 2 foods have same marco's, but one clots your arteries and blood vessals and one doesnt.

who profits more?: a body with healthy vessals/organs OR one with unhealthy vessal/organs.

hope this helps, its not a noticeable difference....until its too late.

Funny post!

[Scooter4]

I'm going to come out and say it straight. I have yet to see someone with a physique that really stands out whose diet doesn't consist of mostly "clean" foods. I'm not saying an outstanding physique can not be achieved by someone who eats all junk, I'm just saying I have yet to see it. If someone wishes to link me to someone who eats mostly dirty and looks fantastic, I would be really curious to see it.

In before shiit storm.

[JohnBrowne]

I'm going to come out and say it straight. I have yet to see someone with a physique that really stands out whose diet doesn't consist of mostly "clean" foods. I'm not saying an outstanding physique can not be achieved by someone who eats all junk, I'm just saying I have yet to see it. If someone wishes to link me to someone who eats mostly dirty and looks fantastic, I would be really curious to see it.

In before shiit storm.

Alberto Nunez

[Shea_G]

its not just carbs/protein/fat

quality does matter, our bodies evolved over thousands of years.

as a previous poster said about one aging 6 and the other aging 10 is about accurate...

there are microscopic differences healthwise that play out over the later years...

take soy and whey protein as an example, one has cholesterol, one doesnt...

its the added nutrients that you lack/surplus makes a difference in your bodies ability to function properly.

if 2 foods have same marco's, but one clots your arteries and blood vessals and one doesnt.

who profits more?: a body with healthy vessals/organs OR one with unhealthy vessal/organs.

hope this helps, its not a noticeable difference....until its too late.

Thats kind of what I was thinking, anyone else care to comment on this post?

[WonderPug]

I too am curious about this, the most experince guy I know with bb/training/nutrition swears by eating clean will make you gain so much better then eating junk.

UGH!!! Not again with this ridiculous term.

The term "eating clean" (and its many derivaties) are poorly defined metaphors, subject to wildly different interpretations based on individual opinions on what constitute a healthy diet.

For example, people in the low-fat, low-carb, vegetarian, ovo-lacto vegetarian, ovo-vegetarian, vegan, raw food, gluten free, fruitarian, casein-free, low glycemic index, Mediterranean diet and paleo camps often have substantially different interpretations as to what constitutes a proper diet and thus would categorize different foods as "clean" or "dirty".

Therefore, when people describe their diets as "clean", they are merely asserting that they eat what they think they are supposed to, rather than asserting why type of diet they are consuming. It doesn't in any way, shape or form speak to the specifics on the respondent's diet.

Thus, the term "eating clean" and it's many derivaties should not be used.

[Shea_G]

UGH!!! Not again with this ridiculous term.

The term "eating clean" (and its many derivaties) are poorly defined metaphors, subject to wildly different interpretations based on individual opinions on what constitute a healthy diet.

For example, people in the low-fat, low-carb, vegetarian, ovo-lacto vegetarian, ovo-vegetarian, vegan, raw food, gluten free, fruitarian, casein-free, low glycemic index, Mediterranean diet and paleo camps often have substantially different interpretations as to what constitutes a proper diet and thus would categorize different foods as "clean" or "dirty".

Therefore, when people describe their diets as "clean", they are merely asserting that they eat what they think they are supposed to, rather than asserting why type of diet they are consuming. It doesn't in any way, shape or form speak to the specifics on the respondent's diet.

Thus, the term "eating clean" and it's many derivaties should not be used.

I was hoping no one would say the C word. Ide rather this thread not turn into 7 pages on the definition or merrit of using "clean".

[MikeK46]

I recently started coming to the nutrition section more regularly and I am seeing a lot of "If it fits your Macros then go for it" & even "fast food can be a good way to get your extra macros/calories for the day" when people are asking about eating what the general population would consider unhealthy foods. Ive also seen alot that macros and calories alone are responsible for your body composition nutrition wise.

So my question is if we had two twins with identical training routines, rest, ect. but one ate what the general pop. would consider healthy and the other ate what the general pop. would consider unhealthy (fast food, candy, chips, soda, ect.) with the same macros and calories in accordance in a bulking diet would they put on equal muscle/fat? Also would their general health be the same and what other differance could one expect to see?

From personal expierience Ive noticed that I generally feel better when I eat better so I am quite surprised to see what I have been.

You can't hit your macros eating nothing but junk food. Hitting your target macronutrient goals is itself a check on your diet that will prevent you from eating nothing but crap. But otherwise, yes...body composition is primarily a factor of macronutrient intake, so assuming you train just as hard, and everything (hormones, etc) is identical, then yes body composition will be the same. Is this likely? No. Fast food is probably not ideal for hormonal regulation (GH, Test, Cortisol, etc. all influence body composition).

With that said, body composition =/= health. You might be able to hit your macros eating mostly fast food if you choose it carefully enough, but like you said, you may feel like sh*t (which will in turn affect your training) and all the artificial crap added to the fast food won't help all your body functions in the long term.

[alan aragon]

I'm going to come out and say it straight. I have yet to see someone with a physique that really stands out whose diet doesn't consist of mostly "clean" foods.

I'm gonna come out and say it straight. I have yet to see a realistic way of hitting your macros eating a lot of desserts & snack foods. They consistently lack protein, but have an abundance of carbs & fat, so your argument is weak. I'll also say this again: dumbfck clean freaks can't even define "clean". They'll have a proprietary blend of stims preworkout, an artificially sweetened & flavored BCAA mix during, and whey hydro + WMS postworkout. They'll then vigilantly avoid fruit & milk because they aren't clean foods. They'll also nix egg yolks because those contain the fat & cholesterol that will stop your heart bro. Gimmie a fcking break... Great physiques are not built on choosing sweet potatoes over white rice or choosing dextrose instead of fruits. Here's the main ingredient that separates outstanding physiques from the rest, this quote by Sean Larson (Musclemania middleweight class winner) captures it:

"My number one tip for all trainers beginning and advanced would be CONSISTENCY. I look at a lot of people and their potential, but their potential means nothing if they don't have consistency. Me? I'm perpetual. Day after day I'm in there bangin the S@#T out of myself with my weight training and I've outlasted them all. I'm constant. Even though I've got some strains and bruises I'm still getting my work done in the gym day in and day out!"

[SideSteal]

as a previous poster said about one aging 6 and the other aging 10 is about accurate...

Not 100% certain, but I'm willing to bet this was a play on the theory of relativity, and intended as a joke for physics nerds.

[SideSteal]

"My number one tip for all trainers beginning and advanced would be CONSISTENCY. I look at a lot of people and their potential, but their potential means nothing if they don't have consistency. Me? I'm perpetual. Day after day I'm in there bangin the S@#T out of myself with my weight training and I've outlasted them all. I'm constant. Even though I've got some strains and bruises I'm still getting my work done in the gym day in and day out!"

Nice quote, thanks for sharing that.

[WonderPug]

I'll also say this again: dumbfck clean freaks can't even define "clean"...

And I thought I was pissed about the use of the term...

[Scooter4]

I'm gonna come out and say it straight. I have yet to see a realistic way of hitting your macros eating a lot of desserts & snack foods. They consistently lack protein, but have an abundance of carbs & fat, so your argument is weak. I'll also say this again: dumbfck clean freaks can't even define "clean". They'll have a proprietary blend of stims preworkout, an artificially sweetened & flavored BCAA mix during, and whey hydro + WMS postworkout. They'll then vigilantly avoid fruit & milk because they aren't clean foods. They'll also nix egg yolks because those contain the fat & cholesterol that will stop your heart bro. Gimmie a fcking break... Great physiques are not built on choosing sweet potatoes over white rice or choosing dextrose instead of fruits. Here's the main ingredient behind outstanding physiques, this quote by Sean Larson (Musclemania middleweight class winner) captures it:

I should have known that you would come in and rape me after saying that.

What I was referring to was black and white. EG: Someone who gets all their carbs from ice cream, pop-tarts, soda, and candy (basically just sugar) vs. someone who gets carbs from potatoes, rice, pasta, oatmeal, bread, etc. I agree with the way you put things into perspective.

I think this is why these discussions get so out of hand. Everyone interprets what other people say as if they are thinking in black and white. However, the reality is it's almost impossible to hit your macros with a diet that is either all black, or all white...

[alan aragon]

Just for fun, a repost of Timberwolf's dirty dieting experiment + 3-wk progress pics:

"This time I decided to experiment. I upped my carbs (150-200g on most days), lowered my protein intake slightly and fat slightly as well but paying most attention to my total calorie intake. Again the calorie intake stayed about 2200 calories/ day but I added a cheat day once a week (where macros and total calorie intake went out the window)and a carb up /refeed day once a week as well. I also did not eat super clean on the non cheat days. I ate deep fried, breaded chicken daily (grocery version of KFC), had whoppers twice a week, chips (baked though), pretzels etc. Again these are on my non cheat days. I also dropped HIIT in favour of long duration low intensity walking on a treadmill.

In just over 3 weeks, my weight went down from 177lbs to dipping just slightly below 170. My arms did lose size...r. arm went from below 17 1/4" to just above 17" though my left arm shrank from 16 3/4" to 16 3/8". My waist thankfully shrank the most from 27 1/2" to 26 1/2". At the suprailliac the caliper measurment went from 4 mm to 2mm. All these were taken on July 23rd. The pics below were from June 30th to July 23rd."

[alan aragon]

More fun... My client Kelechi Opara's 5-week progress pic of being in a caloric deficit, but switching over from traditional BBing sources to getting his carbs from fruit, milk, white bread, & cereal. But obviously, he nailed his macros - he just happened to enjoy his diet a lot more. He even consumed taboos like fruit juice & cookies. There was even the strategic placement of peanut M&M's on final day.

[ko300zx]

More fun... My client Kelechi Opara's 5-week progress pic of being in a caloric deficit, but switching over from traditional BBing sources to getting his carbs from fruit, milk, white bread, & cereal. But obviously, he nailed his macros - he just happened to enjoy his diet a lot more. He even consumed taboos like fruit juice & cookies. There was even the strategic placement of peanut M&M's on final day.

[IMG]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w196/alanaragon/kelechiprep.jpg[IMG]

Only 5 weeks? Impressive.

[alan aragon]

Only 5 weeks? Impressive.

37 days, to be exact. He lost a lot of weight, but you can't really tell because his muscularity became a lot sharper. So much for unclean food preventing fat loss.